Tony Grossi Fans Flames, Seneca Takes the Bait (UPDATE)

by Cleveland Frowns on October 28, 2010

The Browns win in New Orleans has really thrown the Plain Dealer’s top beat writer for a loop. Heading into last week’s game, he set himself up for the bye week by headlining a mailbag column with a question about Jim Harbaugh replacing Eric Mangini as Browns head coach. In the same column, he wholeheartedly endorses a reader’s reference to Brian Daboll as “clueless” and prints no fewer than four letters taking shots at Daboll, despite having never written a column substantiating his extreme position on the offensive coordinator. On Monday, Grossi used the headline “Defense once again showers its affection on coordinator Rob Ryan,” to lead us to the invaluable information that “Ryan “now leads Mangini in Gatorade showers, 2-1.”

It’s no secret to anybody who’s paying any attention that Grossi has been trying to run Mangini out of town not just since the beginning of this season, but from the beginning of Mangini’s tenure in Cleveland. Unable to acknowledge the progress of a football team under this coach, there’s nothing left for him to do but fan the flames of controversy, like with his latest on Seneca Wallace:

Here’s the headline:

“Seneca Wallace says Cleveland Browns need to choose one QB, when all are healthy.”

Of course, no one has ever expressed a contrary position, and there’s no reasonable person who would. But Grossi wants to write about a fight, so here’s his lede:

The boot came off his injured right ankle. Now it appears that Seneca Wallace is taking the gloves off, as well.

Fight! And here’s how it starts, in response to a reporter asking Wallace if “he made a strong statement for keeping the job before he suffered a high ankle sprain in the first half of the Atlanta game”:

“Yeah, I feel that way,” Wallace said. “At the end of the day, it comes down to the coaches. Whoever’s doing the job the best, moving the team, scoring points, making the right decisions, then that should be the guy.”

If you’re following so far, the reporter asked the quarterback if he made a good case to be the starter, and the quarterback said “yes,” before acknowledging that he’s not the one who gets to decide who the starter is:  

“It comes down to Coach’s decision,” he said. “I can’t stand here and say this guy’s gonna be the starter. I don’t know. This whole thing, the last couple years around here, it seems like it’s been quarterback by committee, so who knows? We have to get a guy in there who runs the offense the best and continue to score points, and we’ll win the games.” …   

Here’s where it’s a shame that we weren’t in the locker room to hear the entire conversation, because we can only guess that Grossi brought up “the couple years around here” before Wallace did,* but this must be where the gloves came off, with the passing reference to the quarterback mess that Phil Savage left for the new regime last season. Not a good idea for Wallace to have mentioned it himself, but it’s easy enough to understand why he would. This is the closest he’s been to a regular starting gig in his eight-year career; he was sidelined for two weeks due to an injury, and has good reason to believe he’s vastly outperformed rookie Colt McCoy, who took his place; Yet there’s a groundswell of public support for McCoy to start the Browns’ next game, even though Wallace is healthy.

So now we know that Wallace can be baited into making a self-interested comment in response to near-uniform public opinion that he’s less qualified to do his job than a rookie competitor who’s led the Browns offense on one meaningful scoring drive in two games, and that on a drive where the rookie didn’t complete a single pass. But have we learned anything else?    

“This isn’t college,” Wallace said. “We don’t switch quarterbacks in and out. I think when it comes down to rhythm and gelling together, when you have a quarterback in for one week and then the next week it’s somebody else, that’s not a good situation. You want a guy that’s gonna be in there, be able to move the team and continue to do that week to week.”

Of course, this is nothing that isn’t assumed by any halfway-sentient football fan, so, no. We really haven’t learned a thing that we didn’t already know, including that there’s no situation in Brownstown that’s so complicated that Tony Grossi won’t try to complicate it further by fanning the flames of self-interest.

“Do ya’ think you should start, Seneca? Why? Dontcha’ think it was a real mess last year with the quarterbacks?”

What passes for a Plain Dealer sportswriter these days continues to alarm and depress, and nothing about Grossi’s reporting here gives us any reason to believe there still isn’t an important piece of paper in Berea that says:

1. Delhomme
2. Wallace
3. McCoy

*UPDATE: Here’s a video of the Wallace interview where all but one of the quotes Grossi uses above were given. The only exception, of course, is the quote where Wallace refers to the Brady Quinn/Derek Anderson quarterback controversy of “the last couple years around here.” Watch the video and see that nothing Seneca says in it could be construed as remotely controversial in response to the questions asked, especially within the context of the quotes that Grossi left out, like “I leave [the decision] up to [the coaches.] I do my job the best way I can every time I step on the field, and let my game speak for itself.” Also note that the video is unedited, and the quotes occured in real time in the same order in which they appear in Grossi’s piece, except for Grossi’s insertion of the “last couple years around here” quote in the middle. The inference that Grossi led Wallace to mention the “last couple years” is much stronger in light of this video, and the notion that Wallace “took the gloves off” here is at least ridiculous if not alarmingly dishonest.

———-

Pro Football Focus has the Browns ranked 18th among all NFL teams in their latest power rankings.  This is the highest we’ve seen the Browns ranked anywhere since early 2008, which is at least something.

This week’s NCAA football picks will be up tomorrow morning. This is probably it for today here. Hope everyone has a decent one. 

  • Art Brosef

    Frowner – commenting on posts at quarter till 5? Posts up by 815? You get any sleep last night?

    Jimkanicki – can you send a link to the standings again? I seem to have lost it……

  • Titus Pullo

    Hey now, those column inches at the PD aren't going to fill themselves Mister!

  • Carl

    Cleveland Browns Football…..

    o Who should be the QB on the roster until we can get someone else

    o How many more game do we give the head coach before we fire him

    About the Cavs…..

    o That brass-balled Dan Gilbert had the audacity to show up at the game last night, and he even sat with the crowd instead of a suite. At times he appeared to be clapping, and he even looked comfortable being there.

    It appears we need Randy Lerner to give him a talking to.

    o Down to 11 more wins in the next 81 games for the Cavs according to Kelly Dwyer and Frowns. So I guess they're now due for at least an 6 game losing streak.

  • jimkanicki

    brosef, here you go:

    line links:
    ncaa: http://db.tt/27TCUmp
    nfl: http://db.tt/L5ev7RR

    standings (in excel for mac): http://db.tt/GdMo3Re
    1 kanick 27.0
    2 sneeda 24.0
    3 smitty 21.5
    3 pullo 21.5
    5 brosef 21.0
    6 cuuugs 20.5
    7 peter 19.5
    8 cfkap 18.0
    9 edge 17.0
    10 chris 16.0
    11 believe 15.0
    12 zara. 14.5
    12 chuck 14.5
    14 pml.. 13.5
    15 frowns 13.0

    ****
    qb sitch:
    1. delhomme
    2. wallace
    3. mccoy

    all have performed in their roles as expected. why is this a question?

    if the next game were against anyone but belichick, i would expect mangini to make the unprecedented step (for him) of announcing this stack rank and heading off controversy. but confusion and controversy work to his advantage vs new england and he's not going to give that edge up.

    (hell, maybe grossi is in the bag for mangini trying to stir it up?)

    anyway, it's shaping up as a long ten days of 'who should be qb' talk around here. i plan to spend that time prematurely welcoming boobie gibson back to the world and digging on byron scott.

  • Redz.Harvest

    Appreciative that you took the time to write this post this morning, Frowns. I was similarly put off reading Grossi's latest this morning on the PD site. Inexcusable. I really wish the Beacon Journal would pick things up a bit and make their website more functional.

    Great win for the Cavs last night. As I said earlier, I think the Cavs are capable of putting together a decent season. Never a fan of tanking a season for higher drafting status (play to win!), last night's game reminds me of one more reason I feel this way. If there's some guy out there looking to make a move to another team later this season, someone with mad skills who want to be 'the man' or the next star franchise player, then presumably that person would be looking at teams who can win. Teams with a culture of winning, with a coach who pushes his team to win in all circumstances. Not all theses guys think alike (I hope), so at some point soon, one of these dispossessed and disaffected (ha) will look at those beautiful Cleveland sunsets and see a good fit. Just a thought.

  • Brian Sipe

    Great article Frown…..

    I could not agree more with Grossi wanting to run Mangini… He picked us to win more games than anyone and sticks with his 7-9 no matter what so when the year comes to an end he can boldly claim "they underachieved and Mangini must go"

    and yes, he would love to start trouble with the QB situation and throw a match on the gas can to take away from our huge win no one expected including him.

    as Pluto so wisely said… anything good with the Browns people assume Holmgren did, anything bad goes on Mangini….

    and that is exactly how Grossi reports things and where the fans get that attitude

  • Chris

    f you have a discussion with someone, it's always immediately evident whether they read Grossi or not.

    Simply because if they do, they offer the most retarded, illogical reasons for Mangini's certain dismissal. "Jon Gruden, derp derp. John Fox derpity".

    Ugh.

    Then you get "But they had to use all those trick plays to win", from the same people who said the week before "Boy, it would be nice to see them find a way to win a game".

    Honestly, the average fan's mentality is mind numbing in these parts. Present company excluded, of course.

  • Carl

    It wasn't Wallace that took Grossi's "bait".

    Why the column? All Grossi and Cabot write about is the QB situation and try to generate comments on cleveland.com. Anyone that responds to THEM is taking the bait.

    At one of Holmgren's first or second press conferences a reporter asked if Holmgren would be looking to get a QB in the draft. Holmgren said he liked to take guys in later rounds and work with them as projects (and his history shows this). The next day in the PD Cabot took his comments out of context and wrote an article stating that the BRowns would be looking to draft a QB – inferring that would be their #1 priority. And the headline writer picked it up (High School Journalism 101 – writers do not write the headlines to their stories….editors or people working for the editors do):

    "Browns Looking To Draft QB"

    From then on Hommgren has been very careful when speaking with Cabot, Grossi and a few others….he was new to town and had to find out who were the reporters and who were the sensationalists looking to sell their "personality."
    -
    Do you want to know why no one on here can comment on what the Browns are actually trying to develop on O and D? Probably because the Browns writers at the NE Ohio papers and the motormouth/know-it-all's on local sportstalk radio-TV haven't a clue and don't educated the fans, so the fans don't have a clue.

    Pluto gets some of that in his Sunday column, and that's it.
    -
    What did Wallace say that is not a cliche? Just about every player in professional sports that's out injured says he wants to get back and be the starter. We're supposed to read something awful into this?

  • Titus Pullo

    Tony's just crabby because the Bengals, a team he has an odd love affair with despite their history of mismanagement and housing felons, are soiling themselves again this year.

    In his preseason predictions of the Bengals being a powerhouse he failed to take into consideration that they haven't had consecutive winning seasons in 28 years.

    And that is making him sad. And bitter.

  • Carl

    o The undefeated and #1 ranked University Of Akron Soccer team defeated #9 ranked Creighton last night.

    Their record is now 14-0-1.

    "Creighton (11-3-0) marked the fifth nationally ranked team the Zips have faced. Akron is 4-0 and a combined 11-2 on the scoreboard against the first four. Only then No. 19 Ohio State drew blood from the Zips, earning a 2-2 tie with Akron the last match in September, on the road.

    If that doesn't show how dominant the Zips have been this season, consider this; they entered the game having trailed only four times over the last two seasons. They have not trailed at home this season at all.

    The Zips entered the week ranked No. 1 in the nation in scoring offense (2.93 goals per game) and No. 2 in the nation in goals-against-average (0.35). Akron is the only team in the nation to be ranked in the top five in both categories. "

    o The World Series opened last night.

    o The NBA continued to open around the country, with the Cavs having one of their biggest wins in history.

    o Brown fans are still enjoying their win against the champion Saints 3 days ago.
    ____________

    And today's discussion is on an article a PD columnist wrote on the QB situation with one of the injured QB's saying when he's healthy he wants to play?

    This follows pulling out a ridiculous Kelly Dwyer article and using it to crack on the best team owner in Cleveland sports…..for having the audacity to tell Cleveland fans that he had their back and was committed to continue to bring them a winning team?

    And every time I bring up pertinent issues I have a 20 year-old kid in NYC talking down to me and telling me that I need to learn to put things into perspective.

    Uh-huh.

    I had expected better going into the Fall.

    The cleveland.com comment section is no different other then they have name calling, and the 10% of the comments worth reading have interesting observations.

  • Bryan

    Frowns,

    You da man. Love your stuff. Below is a link to the full Seneca Wallace interview. Anyone who watches it can see that Wallace is just answering questions honestly. He is not saying anything controversial. Grossi is such a moron.

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Seneca-Wallace-Interview/3140ba2c-dd6e-4ac7-86bc-cd6439392d3a

  • Biff

    Frownie,

    Nothing about what took place at the Q last night? For those of use who were there, and I'm sure many more watching at home, it was a pretty moving experience.

    Also, you're not suggesting that Jake Delhomme SHOULD be the starter when healthy, are you? You're just saying he probably is?

  • Chris

    "and I'm sure many more watching at home, it was a pretty moving experience."

    As one who was watching at home, I second. Good call, Biff.

    But I'm sure we'll here from some people that "the win is meaningless because Boston is old and coming off of a back to back."

    It wasn't meaningless to the Cavs, or the fans, but whatever.

  • Brian Sipe

    My Grossi favorite is when the Browns finally beat the Steeler's and his response was "the Steeler's are on a downturn" He went back to that theory when he predicted the Steelers to continue to slide this year and I think I am right in saying he picked them to come dead last in the division this year…

    You nailed that one Tony. Of course his whole premiss on this was to make Mangini's win marginal at best against Pitt

  • Biki

    Kelly Dwyer did not predict 12 wins for the Cavs, that is what he (and Frownie) wants to see from the Cavs in their efforts to rebuild the team. I agree with them, I don't see the sense of being stuck as the 7 or 8 seed for the next 5 years like we did during the Fratello years.

    While by no means do I want them to "tank" the season. Efforts like last night's performance are obviously great for the development of JJ, Ramon and Andy… but just like Rasheed Wallace said, "the sun even shines on a dog's a$$" let's see where we're at after 20-30 games..

    BTW, there are some lucky folks in SF today, and Juan Uribe is reaching deadhead status for his efforts last night as well! http://bit.ly/c8dnKy

  • Biff

    I'd rather see them win 40 games, make the playoffs, and develop their young talent in at least a semi-winning culture, than tank and pray for a franchise cornerstone lottery pick. It's going to take some luck and some efficient use of the older pieces in trade, but I actually think it might be easier to rebuild if they don't completely let the bottom fall out. It's a lot harder to teach talented players how to win than it is to get talented players in the first place.

    If you go in the tank, you kill off the fan base (See Indians, Cleveland), your young players develop bad habbits and forget how to win, you stop playing defense, and you're basically betting on 1) winning the lottery, 2) In a year that has a truly franchise-altering #1 pick. How often does that happen? It has to be less than 1/3rd of the time, because there are only a handful of true aces in the league.

    They can't let this franchise go to shit. If they do, it may never recover.

  • Biki

    Biff, even if the roster as is plays at 110% for 48 minutes for 82 games, they don't have the TALENT to win 40 games! it's not considered TANKING when the TALENT isn't there. just like what Frowns have been saying about the Browns. yes the effort is there, but the TALENT isn't.

    the fan base will be there because they are smart enough to know the deal and they also admire how the team will play with the effort like they played last night. they may not win a ton of games, but Byron will make sure the hard work and effort is brought every night.

  • Biff

    The fans will be there this year as long as they're competitive because the tickets were already sold. If the start to fall way below .500, you'll start to see a lot of empty seats, especially on weekday games.

    I'm also not ready to say that this team can't win 35-40 games with the talent they have. I think you're underrating them a little bit. Last year's Raptors and Grizzlies both won 40 games. Last year's Pacers won 32 games. You don't think we have more talent than the 2009-10 Indiana Pacers? Keep in mind, this team has a better coach and a lot more to play for than any of those aforementioned teams.

  • Biki

    The Grizzlies have far more talent on their team than the Cavs, Randolph, Rudy Gay, Mayo, Gasol, i mean i really don't see the comparison.

    as far as the Pacers, Danny Granger and Troy Murphy would clearly be the Top 2 players on our team..

    here's how many teams have won 35 or less the past 5 years

    2010: 10 lost 32 or less
    2009: 12 lost 35 or less
    2008: 10 lost 35 or less
    2007: 12 lost 35 or less
    2006: 10 lost 35 or less

    I just can't nam 9 teams who are worse.. i can name 3, maybe 5, maybe 7, but not 9.. lot of improvement from the bottom dwellers last year..

    we'll see.. it's why they play the games and why we watch!

  • jimkanicki

    o/t sorry. on the 'way to build your nba champion' question.. tanking doesn't work. being lucky works.

    2008, Chicago Bulls, 33–49, 1.70% chance at #1.
    1997, San Antonio Spurs, 20–62, 21.60% (tanked season due to david robinson injury).
    1993, Orlando Magic, 41–41, 1.52% (second consecutive #1 pick).

    not being is stupid helps too. (damn you luke jackson pick.)

  • eldaveablo

    The PD is really pissing me off. They just added Browns AM links where they actually start with a quote from a commenter (great journalism), and then say the commenter, "was reacting to Plain Dealer beat writer Tony Grossi's piece in today's paper in which a now-healed Seneca Wallace said that based on his performance in the Cincinnati and Atlanta games, he should be the Browns' starting quarterback."

    So, they are reporting on a comment from a piece that essentially created this controversy, and now takes it to another level and essentially made it fact. That's great. Next thing you know, they will splice together video of Seneca Wallace saying he's the second coming of Bernie.

    On a side note, did anyone see Kelly Dwyer's piece on the Cavs game? It's actually really good. After reading all these Celtic excuses about taking the Cavs lightly, playing the night before, letting up at the end, etc., Dwyer actually gave the Cavs all the credit and was totally positive. Check it out:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Behind-the-Box-Score-where-Cleveland-doesn-t-ca?urn=nba-280658

  • Biki

    this year's college freshman class is filled with lottery talent… we don't have to win the lottery, although it would be pretty great to get Harrison Barnes who is the #1 Small Forward prospect, which is obviously an area of need for us…

  • Believelander

    You're right, Biki, this team doesn't have the talent to win 40 games. Because we lost Z and Shaq's golden years; D-West's drama; and of course, LeYawn Lames. But that equates to 35 wins right there, doesn't it? He whose PER is roughly equal to Jordan's; whose team went down a dozen or so without him when he left. This team is a bunch of talentless hacks and the Bron won 127 games in 2 seasons by himself – oh, I'm sorry, they were good for 54 so he only had to win 73 games all to his lonesome.

    God, go drop your tripe on a Jets blog. Or follow the Heat. They're 0-1 right now, it's the angsty pick.

  • Believelander

    LoL @ Carl's comprehensive season prognostication: yeah. Kelly Dwyer. What a goon.

  • Biff

    Biki,

    Granger would definitely be our top scorer and probably top player. As for Murphy, I think you're overrating him. Remember, the Pacers would've given us Murphy for next to nothing and we took Jamison instead.

    In looking at team talent, you can't just look at two players. The 09 Pacers' top 6 were Granger, Murphy, Hibbert, TJ Ford, and Dahntay Jones. I'd take Hickson, Williams, Sessions, Varejao, Jamison, and Parker over those guys for one season.

    As for 9 teams that have worse overall talent than the Cavs, I think any of the following teams could fall into that category. I'm not saying all 9 will be worse than the Cavs, but I'm saying the talent is close enough that the Cavs could finish with a better record.

    1. Detroit
    2. Indiana
    3. Milwaukee
    4. New Jersey
    5. Philadelphia
    6. Toronto
    7. Washington
    8. Minnesota
    9. Memphis

  • Biki

    are you really comparing this team to the 93-94 Bulls??? with a certain Scottie Pippen, one of the Top 50 players EVER! not to mention Horace Grant, BJ, and Kukoc..

    and you realize how weak the NBA was back then? doesn't even compare to the teams we have now.

    who said they were talentless hacks? they are NBA players, but collectively they aren't as talented than at least 20 other teams in the NBA. again, i've asked this question dozens of times in here, please name me 10 NBA teams who will do WORSE than the Cavs this year. history shows that at least 10-12 teams win 35 games or less a season. so name them please.

  • Biki

    Milwaukee?? Memphis?? (btw, i think you forgot Sacramento)

    Toronto and Minnesota i think without a doubt we will have a better record than, the others, it will be very close.

    i think the Wizards, Nets, and Philly will do better than us as well..

    again, over the past 5 years, 12 teams won 35 or less 4 out of 5 years.. so we will be hard pressed to win 35 or more..

    we do have a fairly favorable schedule coming up: Toronto, Sac, Philly, Was, NJ twice, Philly, and Indiana in 8 out of next 9 games.. we'll see how we do against these teams who are all teams who won 32 or less last year..

  • Titus Pullo

    I'm with Biff, it's a dangerous path to take if you intentionally tear down the team to try and build it back up.

    It only takes a year to two to take the team down, but it takes several years to build it back up. As horrible as some people want to make out the Cavs talent surrounding LeBron the past 2 years, they were far better than his first 2 years here. It will take the Cavs 3-4 years to rebuild the team after they luck into picking the right high-draft choice.

    There's no guarantee the Cavs will get the right draft pick, either. What if they end up in the draft where they take Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant?

    I get it that we don't want to go back to the Fratello years, but why does it have to be an either/or situation where the Cavs are either 8th or 9th in the conference and never get better, but aren't bad enough to get a high draft pick?

    The other thing they have to worry about is fans; they've already lost the casual fan, if they go through another 4-5 year period of losing they are going to lose that second-tier fan that may not come back again once they team gets better.

    It's definitely a tough spot that they are currently in.

  • Biki

    Who said anything about intentional??? the team as currently constructed will be a lottery team!!! if they aren't then then i will be pleasantly surprised, and will also be even further in the poor house, unless the Brownies finish strong!

    again, the proof is in the pudding, we can debate this till we're blue in the face, but we have a very easy schedule these next 9 games, we'll see how we do..

  • Pittsburgh is for Man Lovers

    Oh man, this is awesome. Somebody has too much time on their hands.

  • Biff

    Biki:

    1. I left out Sac because I think they're actually going to be pretty good.

    2. If the Cavs are already a lottery team, then we don't really need to tear anything down do we? And when we talk about tearing this team down, does that even make any sense?

    Presumably, regardless of record, they'll try like hell to trade Jamison and they'll either succeed or they won't. Gibson is only 24 and you probably can't get anything for him anyway. That leave two guys that make substantial money and have years left on their deals: Williams and Varejao.

    Varejao is only 28, so assuming he would be happy playing on mediocre teams here, you could make him part of the next generation here. Big men tend to age fairly well in the NBA and he's got fewer miles on his body than most other elite bigs his age because he didn't play starter minutes until recently. And yes, I just called Varejao elite because he is. He's a 7-footer who can guard 4 positions, is a terror on the glass, and makes everyone else on his team better. He's Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen in their primes, only if either of those guys were 7 feet tall. He's that good. You don't even consider trading Varejao unless you're getting an under-25 talented big and another key piece in return. I don't see another team making that kind of offer. You also have to factor in the fan angle here. The fans love him. He makes money for the franchise. You can't trade him unless it drastically hastens your rebuilding process.

    That leaves Mo, and frankly, I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make in overall record if Mo is traded or not. I'm sure they'll be able to find a taker that needs a shooter/ball handler at the deadline, and at that point, if the deal makes sense, you do it. Your team isn't appreciably worse with Gibson and Sessons in the backcourt because Sessions is a much better defender.

    What I'm trying to say is that I don't think there are really "compete or rebuild" decisions to be made here. I think you try to trade Jamison, you try to trade Mo, and you hold on to Andy sans a godfather offer. And as for guys like Moon and Powe, if someone offers you a pick or a young piece, you move them. Iether way, the core of the team going forward isn't realy changing.

  • Biki

    again, it seems to me, that the TEAM AS CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED, is no better than a 35 win team and a lottery team. i never said anything about "tearing it down" because it really can't get much worse except for trading Mo and Jamision, which would take a MIRACLE. unless at trade deadline someone will be willing to take on the montrosity of Jamison's $15 million owed to him in 2011-2012.. but more likely he will be a tradeable asset next year. almost even more unlikely that we would be able to move Mo who is signed for 3 more seasons (actually he has a player option for $8.5 for the next two seasons, but i can't imagine he would opt out).

    i agree 1000%, Andy, Ramon, and JJ are the core and the only guys who i expect to be on the team in 2012 when hopefully with some good solid drafting and adding of free agents we can be a competitive team again.

  • Biff

    But your whole premise was that you didn't want to get stuck in the Fratello zone of mediocrity. If you think we're a 28-35 win team as presently constructed, while we might not be in the Fratello Zone of fringe playoff team, it's essentially the same result: You get a mid-first round pick, even if at the end of the lottery, that isn't a franchise player.

    As for Mo, I think it will be easier to move him than you think. I'm not saying there will 100% be a team there to take him, but he's much easier to move than Jamison. Also consider the fact that Mo's numbers will in all likelihood be better than in years past because he will be a focal point of the offense.

    8 million or so a year for a veteran point guard who has a good handle and can shoot the lights out isn't that terrible of a deal in today's NBA

  • Chris

    "again, it seems to me, that the TEAM AS CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED, is no better than a 35 win team and a lottery team."

    Yesterday they were a 27-55 team. A LOCK to be under 30.5 wins. Beating an old Boston team on a back to back surely didn't put them at 31 wins or better, no?

  • Brian Sipe

    Why is everyone arguing hoops on the Tony Grossi thread? there is one out there for the Cav's

  • Biki

    Chris, yes, my prediction is 27-55, and i wagered on the under 30.5.. can they win more games, sure, but i doubt it and i think the odds are in my favor that they don't… i feel the Cavs are no better than the 5th worst team in the NBA..

    over the past 5 years, the 5th worst team won:
    2010: 27 wins
    2009: 24 wins
    2008: 23 wins
    2007: 30 wins
    2006: 27 wins

    again, 10 teams won 32 or less last year, and 12 teams 35 or less the 4 years previous.. that's why i said they could not win more than 35 because even if i'm wrong that they aren't the 5th worst, i find it hard to believe that there will be 12 teams worse than the Cavs this year..

  • Biki

    @Sipe, personally i'm behind whatever Holmgren/Mangini decides to do in terms of the QB situation, so i don't really have much to add.

    as far as Grossi, i don't really mind him, interesting to hear his takes on things since he has much more access to the team than i do. but i read all the beat writers so what he says doesn't sway my opinion one way or the other. i think a lot of fans read more than one beatwriter and not giving the average fan enough credit for their intelligence to make up their own opinoins.

  • Art Brosef

    Because everyone knows Tony Grossi is a moron, and the Cavs deserve some love today. There will be (has been) enough Browns quarterback talk.

    Today, the Cavs are the story.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Carl: I wish I had the time and energy to write about every single thing that could potentially interest folks here.

    I also wish I had the luxury to research pieces for weeks (or even one week) to write in-depth features, create statistical databases and chart plays, and all that.

    Finally, I wish I had a better sense of humor and a more active imagination than I do.

    As it is, football is the sport that interests me most (for a number of reasons that I often discuss here), it's easy enough for me to read or hear a narrative about my favorite football team, identify that it's complete horsesh*t, and write a blog post about why it's horsesh*t.

    It makes me feel better to do this. It makes me feel like the world is at least a little bit better place with that blog post in it, and I know there are at least a few people who feel the same way. I'm not sure what I could do with the same time and energy that I use to make these posts to make myself feel any better than that, or else I would. I'm sure I could be better at working to figure something out, and like to think I'm always searching, but who knows. Anyway, I wish I could do more for you, bud. I really do.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    I also really wish I could enjoy last night's Cavs win more than I do. Right or wrong, Dan Gilbert's turned me off to this franchise. Maybe I'll get over it soon enough, or figure out a better way to express it. Until then, there was really no point repeating myself today.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Most importantly, thanks Bryan for finding that video. Makes Grossi's column much worse than we thought it was. Post has been updated.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    And yeah, I'm glad someone's talking Cavs here. Too bad Biff can't come off his duff for a proper column.

  • jimkanicki

    on further review, frowns' post was timely. i happened to check the two asses on "SBTV" on cleveland.com. what a trainwreck. after first listening to their analysis on the cavs game ("antawn didn't like coming off the bench." huh?), they bring on terry pluto. now understand that the headline for their feature reads

    It would be ridiculous for Cleveland Browns to start Jake Delhomme, says Terry Pluto (SBTV)

    it turns out that pluto doesn't say this. he says something like colt should start until wallace is healthy. and next, after pluto leaves, they start yakking about how all this discord should be handled behind closed doors. ?! having seen the actual interview, and having seen the cavaliers game, it's apparent these two guys are absolutely talking out their asses.

    if cleveland.com wants to leverage the sunk costs of their audio-visual department.. may i suggest they bring back The Predictors?

    check this link out and tell me it isnt vastly superior to SBTV.. http://is.gd/gppwL

  • Believelander

    I know next to nothing about basketball, Frownie, but I'll write a column if you want. It won't be good, though.

    Also, anyone who can dance the YMCA at a baseball game like you can has a decent sense of humor.

    Also, proof: http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2009/12/patrick-mcmanamon-eric-mangini-and-bob.html

    Funniest. Thing. Ever.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    You're a real bro, Believe'r.

  • Art Brosef

    Here comes Brosefs winning college CB pick. But first, since Ive been slacking in the essay portion of this competition, I will offer an authoritative and comprehensive explanation today…..

    My lovely girlfriend, who some people around here have had the pleasure of meeting, offered these words of wisdom this morning while we nursed our hangovers and stared at ESPN. "F**kin USC?? Why is College Gameday there? They suck. And dont they have that dickhead coach? Isnt Oregon really good? Oregons gonna kill them and their a**hole coach."

    Cant argue with that logic

    Oregon -7

    And, Im not even kidding about this, she thinks thats Mel Brooks sitting next to Herbstreit.

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