Talking Browns with LeCharles Bentley and Je’Rod Cherry on Xs and Os with the Pros

by Cleveland Frowns on November 30, 2010

We’ll have a post up on Cavs Chants shortly, but first, our conversation with LeCharles Bentley and Je’Rod Cherry on WKNR last night is worth keeping some track of here.

(UPDATE: You can download two segments from last night’s broadcast here and here. You can also listen straight from the web if you click here and scroll down to the 11/29/10 podcasts in the archive.)

For starters, LeCharles and Je’Rod seemed to genuinely appreciate some of the media criticism we do here, which means a lot coming from a pair of guys who played in the NFL and have the platform that they have at ESPN Cleveland because of their experience and perspective. It was, of course, incredibly humbling to meet an actual Cleveland Frowns Person of the Year in person, and Je’Rod was as gracious as could be about our not having an official certificate of award prepared for him (yet). LeCharles quoted directly from a post here referring to the “craggy terrain of the wondrous world of LeCharles Bentley,” and did it with a laugh. These guys couldn’t have been nicer, and there was plenty of room for honest disagreement in the studio last night. LeCharles repeatedly referred to Cleveland Frowns as “a website for thinkers” which basically means “a website for people,” and is exactly right.

One of the best parts of last night came in between segments when LeCharles explained what he meant back when he said (see post linked above) that “Tiger Woods is one of us now, ‘Tiger Hoods’” after the golfer’s infamous infidelities had been revealed. Which was to say that it all made Tiger come off as less of a robot and more of a human, which is fair enough, and still exponentially more interesting than Brinda’s golf game and Fedor’s fantasy team combined.

As for the football talk, it mostly boiled down to a disagreement about how much talent disparities on NFL rosters matter. We said that it matters a lot, like when wide receivers can’t run faster than the people who are guarding them. LeCharles, not so much. We also pointed out that there’s generally a big difference between first round NFL draft picks, second round NFL draft picks, third round NFL draft picks, on down the line, which is why these categories are compensated so disproportionally, and that it would probably be helpful to count how many of each start for each NFL team before passing final judgment on a coaching staff. LeCharles brought up the issue of an apparent failure of the Browns coaching staff to make “second-half adjustments.” In response, we got our favorite Plato quote in, speculated as to what it would be like to fight against machine guns with bows and arrows, and that we’d probably try to use all of our arrows in the first half too before our head was blown off (like in this scene here (the 2010 Cleveland Browns are the blue guys)).

Along these lines, LeCharles also made a distinction between a football team’s “identity,” and its “scheme,” “system” or  ”plan,” to say that the Browns had an identity, but not really any of the rest. This was confusing, because as far as we can tell, the New York Jets’ “power running system” to which LeCharles referred is only really any better than the Browns’ (or any more of a “scheme,” “system,” or “plan”) because the Jets line up with significantly more talented personnel.

We also got into Mangini’s performance as head coach of the New York Jets, specifically the meltdown in his third year there that LeCharles was hesitant to blame on Brett Favre. We could have spent an entire show or a week of shows on this, and a number of these topics. Also, it says here that Mike Williams ran a 4.48 40.

Another special moment was when none other than Michael Reghi brought it strong with a phone call to say that Eric Mangini, to him, was “a good Wednesday to Saturday coach,” who consistently failed to make “in-game adjustments.” This call was especially special not only because Reghi had just spent three hours hosting a show on ESPN Cleveland himself, but because it’s only been two weeks since we specifically criticized Reghi for making this lowest common denominator argument (easily disposed of with reference to the Avatar scene linked above) in a post titled: “This Week in Second Guessing: Michael Reghi on Eric Mangini’s “in-game Coaching Ability.” Worth a read if you missed it the first time and wanted to know what Reghi was really getting at when he called in to repeat himself last night.

"("Your bow and arrow isn't working here because you are 'a Wednesday to Saturday coach.' Get some better adjustments, dummy.")

Here are some of the Top Tweets from folks who tuned in last night:

@Cavalette23: RT @xsandospros It’s Showdown Monday tonight athe guys will be joined by @clevelandfrowns two full hrs to take your calls. 6-8 on KNR >YAY!

@MikeAmmo: @ClevelandFrowns I don’t get why the Cleveland media refuses to admit that Mangini built the foundation for the Jets!

@cpmack: @LeCharlesBent65 @clevelandfrowns What has Rex Ryan won that Mangini hasn’t? Identical records, one of them lucked into the playoffs

@jimkanicki: @LeCharlesBent65 @JerodMSF adrian peterson-hardnosed or not-would not deliver behind kevin shaffer and john stclair.

@lilOUMikey: @xsandospros PLEASE tell me how the hell Tampa and KC have a SYSTEM!?!?!

@Art_Brosef: @clevelandfrowns @jimkanicki yes well done. when the show was over I had to look up scheme, system, play, and philosophy in the dictionary

@BrianSpaeth: @MayKat33 it sounds like The View: Cleveland Males

@MayKat33: @brianspaeth hah, lol. Aaron Goldhammer is Elisabeth Hasselbeck!

@MapRoomBar: @ClevelandFrowns @xsandospros @LeCharlesBent65 are u guys coming by?

So, yeah, MayKat wins (love you, Hammer).  As long as we get to be Babs.

Anyway, you should follow all of these people on Twitter, as well as @BrksfromthePnd, @kv327, @Robataka, @Rossitron5 @Sojournalista@SpringCo, and of course, @XsandOsPros, @LeCharlesBent65, and @jrcherry3. It’s also true that if you’re not on Twitter, it’s a problem.

Thanks again to LeCharles, Je’Rod, and the ESPN Cleveland gang, thanks to everyone for listening, and for the feedback.

Back shortly to talk about this Thursday night at the Q.

  • Jeff

    Congrats Frowns – and thank you for representing us "thinkers" out here. Unfortunately I wasn't able to tune in live – any chance they'll post a replay online at some point?

  • Chris

    It was interesting, to say the least. I've been watching LeCharles play since Iggy's, all the way until he got to the Browns, and I'm a fan.

    No disrespect meant here, but I had a very hard time with him talking over you every time he disagreed with something. I understand that he doesn't believe in what Mangini is doing here, I just don't feel like he did a great job articulating his argument.

  • Art Brosef

    I enjoyed the entire thing, well done Frownie.

    I will say I had a difficult time understanding LeCharles' argument as it relates to the talent level. He kept saying "overplay" which I assume meant "overachieve." I also couldnt follow his explanation regarding the difference between "identity" "scheme" and "plan." But I never played in the league, so what do I know. But it did seem he was splitting hairs to suit his own opinion of Mangini. Other than that Ill give him a pass on going to the Reghi School of Fabricating Words.

    You could tell once towards the end he was the verge of getting just a little too chippy and seemed close "going down to your moms basement and write another blog post" card.

    Other than that he seemed open to discussion for the most part. Looking forward to your next appearance on KNR. Or as Kanicki says, holding court with any of the aforementioned characters at the Map Room. Ill be happy to record the minutes. Frownie Podcast!!

  • Believelander

    I don't doubt LeCharles Bentley is an intelligent, accomplished adult, but the idea of a human battering ram getting into a debate about the philosophy of anything with a law school victim seems unwise, even if said human development and family science major has spent his whole life playing the subject of said topic.

    I want to know – did you thank Reghi for 'bringing it tough'?

  • Redz.Harvest

    OG's!!! Woo. Coming for my prize, Babs.

    Loved the discussion last night, and it seems like there's much more discussion to be had. It was especially interesting hearing the excitement, frustration and impatience expressed by someone who was so recently playing football with the Browns, making it a little easier to understand why these coaches feel so much pressure. With all of that pressure and more, I'm even more impressed by Mangini and his core players given that the Browns have been in every game this season, under a tough schedule, playing with constantly rotating quarterbacks, and are still a fun team to watch and root for.

    As an outsider, I think Mangini's priorities for the Browns give us the best chance to develop a contending team again, and I wasn't dissuaded from that point of view listening to LeCharles – still I do want to hear more. So, I hope Jerod and LeCharles get around to another Frownie tripartite show sooner rather than later.

    Soon enough for other Cleveland media to start making sense of things.

    Also, I've since been told that the Hasselbeck person is hot, so to Lizzy Hammer, things could be a lot worse.

  • Mikey

    http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa199/lilOUmikey/lecharles.jpg

    I don't think LeCharles likes me very much. I respect that he brought on a 'contrary to the media' opinion but I was pretty angry that he never let you finish a thought. During his NFL career I wonder how the QB got a word in while in the huddle.

    Just seemed like #65 read up on Pete's stances and quickly came up with ways to disprove them. I've only listened to their show a few times and always turned it off enraged at their stands and how they constantly play the race card.

  • Biki

    @cpmack, whether Rex "lucked into playoffs" or not, they also won 2 HUGE road games against some pretty tough teams, so Rex in his rookie coaching season has won 2 more playoff games than Mangini has. But yes, Mangini has never had a team as talented as Rex has, but he still gets them to perform at their fullest and is now 20-10 in 1.5 seasons. Could Mangini have done as good or better? We'll never know. Every coach will always say that there is a lot of good fortune involved with the successes they experience, including being fortunate to being at the right place at right time. No wonder Rex is always grinnin' ear to ear, he knows how fortunate of a situation he has. Can't wait for next Monday, that is going to be one of the best regular season games in a long time. Two 9-2 teams in the same division??? Lookin' forward to Frownie's pick on that one.

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