Fly away, birdies

by Cleveland Frowns on March 10, 2011

The U.S. Census counted fewer people in Cleveland again, and Mayor Jackson really shouldn’t be so defensive about it.

Per Rich Exner in this morning’s Plain Dealer, “population plunged by 17 percent as 80,000 residents left the city” leaving “the smallest number of people to call Cleveland home in more than 100 years.”

“We knew there was going to be a loss. We did not think it was going to be this many,” said a surprised Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson.

Jackson said he believes census-takers missed population and that the foreclosure crisis sparked unwanted flight, robbing people of their homes and forcing them to find new ones. . . .

“Without the foreclosure crisis,” he said, “we believe the population loss would have been minimal.”*

Exner himself calls the census report “grim news,” and quotes Greg Brown, the executive director of Cleveland think tank Policy Bridge, who says “there’s just a fear that [shrinking cities] are the cities people don’t want to move to, that businesses don’t want to go to. We certainly have a lot of work to do to turn this around.”

“From a purely demographic standpoint, Ohio’s just not getting the Hispanics that other, even Midwest states are getting,” said William Frey, a national census expert with the Brookings Institution.

“The Hispanics! We’re just not getting them. Which one of you bums is going to bring me the Hispanics!?”

We’re all for think tanks staying busy but how about let’s leave the Hispanics be and not get so worked up about them wanting to be closer to places where they already have plenty going on? Our sense of civic well-being should probably depend on something other than having the Hispanics reinvent the wheel here.

And one thing that would help for sure is if we could agree to recognize that references to population loss as per se “grim news” are per se offensive. If you roll your cursor over the map at the bottom of the PD piece, you’ll see that Ohio’s population growth is right in line with every other state in the Northeast, where people have been leaving for parts south and west for decades now. Which makes all kinds of sense even if you only remember that the Northeast is where most of them came in to the country in the first place.

There’s also the ‘massive transformation of the industrial heartland’ thing that nobody seems to be looking at the right way here. Real Facts of Science: All else equal, massive transformation is something the average person tends to try to avoid. It doesn’t mean that there’s not plenty to do for the folks who stick around for it, and probably means the opposite, like the guy from the think tank said. But it really can’t be anything to be scared of.

In the meantime, today’s as good a day as any to remember what Harvey Pekar said about boosterism. It gets tiresome repeating the same things over again, but no matter what the Census says, if we just keep this place a nice one for the people who are here, there will still be places for us to get a really decent bite to eat; The lake probably isn’t going to dry up anytime soon; The Clinic probably isn’t moving; the Browns won’t for sure; and we’re a long way from anybody shutting the highways down, or the sewers, or Map Room or anything. If those things happen, maybe then we can start thinking about a Plan B.

———-

If you needed any more proof, this 2011 Northeast Ohio fish fry guide will make your head explode. Spend days counting all of them, or just trust us on this one:

SS CONSTANTINE AND HELEN GREEK ORTHODOX CATHEDRAL: 3352 Mayfield Road, Cleveland Heights. 216-932-3300. 4:30-8 p.m. Fridays through April 15. All-you-can-eat fish fry, calamari basket, shrimp dinners and walleye dinners with spanakopita, tiropita, rice pilaf, New England clam chowder, mac & cheese, greek salads and rice pudding. Kids meals and homemade Greek pastries (baklava, finikia, and galatobouriko) are available. Plus live entertainment. $8.95 (all-you-can-eat), Other dinners available up to $12.95. $4.95 for children ages 5-12 (all-you-can-eat) and a free fish dinner for children ages 4 and under.

The Greeks: Because nothing says “lenten austerity” like all the fried fish you can eat, plus live entertainment. Don’t tell Constantinople.

—————

Cleveland: Our Gangsters are Realer than Yours.

—————

Cleveland: Where there is no sports news today.

Hope everyone has a decent one. We’ll be back tomorrow as always unless something crazy happens.

—————

*Dan Gilbert’s fault.

————–

(UPDATE: Cleveland: The Realest Most Resilient Impervious Irrepressible Place There Is)

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    It just wouldn’t be a Thursday (or any day ending in “y”, really) post without some Dan Gilbert hate.

    http://www.jdpower.com/Finance/ratings/primary-mortgage-origination-ratings/

    So essentially the customer service took a dip this year, and they’re still better than everyone else.

    http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350×0/1/e//1ec93-silky_johnson_chappelle.jpg

  • Anonymous

    Frownie, I can send you all of the Hispanics you want. 70% of the population here speaks Spanish as their first language.
    Please send me your address and I will put together a flyer for the Tecate kegger you are having this weekend and you will have a couple thousand of my good friends jumping out of the back of pick-ups and into your yard. I will be driving the 85′ Izusu Pu’p Diesel with 20 of my girlfriend’s cousins in the back.
    Deje los juegos comenzar a mi buen amigo.
    Orale pues vato.

    • Anonymous

      Keep an eye on your mailbox because you probably just earned yourself a six figure pension from the Cleveland Municipal Workers fund just for having left that comment.

      • Anonymous

        Frownie, there are countless things that I miss about Cleveland and I will always root for the Browns, Indians, Cav’s et cetera, but it is 75 degrees and sunny here right now, I am working from my back yard surrounded by a happy menagerie of dogs, cats, budding hot peppers, tomatoes and Koi.
        It is hard to come back home.
        Most importantly, all of my family is in Cleveland, it would be hard to move back without them finding out.

        • Anonymous

          I think you’re still cool with the pension so don’t sweat it.

  • http://twitter.com/jimkanicki jim kanicki

    based on these two pictures, it seems clear that cleveland is actually the long lost city of osgiliath and the gateway to gondor. this is going to be HUGE for cleveland when aragorn returns.

    http://analienmind.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/100_0166.jpg
    http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/sertla/Maravillas/Argonath.gif

    • Ron

      It all makes sense now. The Nazgul ruined the Flats! Thanks Jim!

  • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

    Now I’m waiting for the tie-in piece where you justify LeMoobs leaving.

    • Anonymous

      Never thought it possible, but I think I hate that little gem of a nickname more than Mangina. I pray it dies here, never to be resurrected.

      • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

        By hate you mean love, correct?

        • Anonymous

          This makes sense. Carry on.

  • Anonymous

    Pro-home-mortgagee trolling won’t fly here today. Sorry. The internet is wide open for you to take it somewhere else.

  • Anonymous

    papa p was down with shondor et. al., so please do direct all of your real gangster questions this way. (we’re both super mad big al didn’t make it into the movie. a true travesty.)

    also all due respects to the greeks, but when it comes to lenten fish fries the eastern eurpeans do it best, starting with the sides of cabbage and noodles and pierogies. as for the live entertainment – i like the irish dancers.

    finally disqus won’t let me login so don’t even get mad about the whole lack of avatar thing.

  • Anonymous

    Tell it frown man. Tell it. They’ll have to come back when they get thirsty, but until then I’ll just further enjoy the elbow room and amenities in this beautiful and functional ruin. As long as you can keep the institutions rolling (I’m looking at you, CleOrch,) America’s Most Useable City™ is a place from which you would have to pry me with a crow bar, ski trails, sugar maples, and plentiful trout.

    It really would be nice if Cleveland shrank to the point where they blew up Burke.

  • http://www.redright88.com Titus Pullo

    Less people? Cool, maybe now I can get a table at Melt without having to wait three hours. And maybe all the Chrismas Ale won’t sell out the first week it hits store shelves.

    People may be leaving the city but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are leaving the region. And while city officials only want to believe in “what’s good for Cleveland is good for the region,” the opposite is always true.

    There are new industries (think bioscience) and financing coming into the region to replace the traditional ones of manufacturing and NE Ohio as a whole may not be as grim as The PD would want us to believe.

    • Anonymous

      Ive never been to Melt, but my bad about the Christmas Ale.

      • http://www.redright88.com Titus Pullo

        No worries. It taught me a valuable lesson. When I saw Conway’s Irish Ale on the shelves a few weeks back I made sure to stock up.

  • Anonymous

    “you’ll see that Ohio’s population growth is right in line with every other state in the Northeast”

    the point of the article is CLEVELAND’s population decline, not the state of Ohio. The 17% decline places Cleveland among the fastest-declining cities in the United States over the past decade. Akron fell, but by less than half of Cleve by 8.03%..

    I think the main thing to consider here is the loss of revenue for the municipalities due to the population decrease, hence the reason Frownie got a phantom ticket.

    • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

      Or, robocop is racist.

      • Anonymous

        And what do the municipalities need revenue for anyway if there’s nobody here?

        • Anonymous

          um, have you ready anything other than Mangini’s personal diary the past few years?? the entire budget on all levels of government across the country have been operating on massive deficits, and particularly in Cleveland where the schools are suffering, roads are terrible, the list goes on and on. And you wonder why Mayor Jackson is so concerned, take a look at their fiscal budget next year.

          • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

            Didn’t he balance it? Why the need for more money? Can’t they just be satisfied with what they have/

          • Anonymous

            Yeah Biki you are really missing the point.

          • Anonymous

            tell that to the kids in Cleveland Public Schools.. Uncle Bray Bray isn’t around anymore to contribute..

          • Anonymous

            and then there are some political ramifications as well as it seems Ohio will lose 2 congressional seats because of this, seats that are Democrat, so I’m sure the DNC is probably more worried than the Mayor.

          • Anonymous

            i’m not saying it’s all doom and gloom, there are plenty of things to be excited about, including as someone mentioned the investment in medicine, biotech, the Shurmurnator, and of course Lonnie Chisenhall.. But there still is some serious concerns that hopefully the public and private sector will be able to address as we move into the 2nd decade of the 2000s..

          • Anonymous

            Just raise taxes. That will bring’em back in droves.

          • Brian Sipe

            Biki off the top rope on Frownie!

          • Anonymous

            Yeah, I was just going to say, Biki for mayor.

      • Anonymous

        or Hispanic

  • Brian Sipe

    I would kill to move back to NE Ohio(rarely heard statement)…. I hope to be back there in the next 5 years, probably Hudson, but maybe C town

    • Anonymous

      yeah but you can live anywhere, all you need is a phone and internet!

      but don’t worry, those long disappointing drives back to cbus after Browns games will be no longer..

  • Ess Eh

    Nice article. And, once fresh water becomes scarce in the mid 21st century, people will flock back to the great lakes area like crazy. Another thing, is there any breakdown of age? Couldn’t some of it be the baby boomers leaving since they are old and like it warm?

    • Captain Spaulding

      Good points, especially about the impending water crisis; a lot of people don’t even know what that is (kinda like chinch bugs or manganese).

  • Anonymous

    UNRELATED, but timely based on last night:
    hey ya’ll lebum defenders, just take a look at carmelo at the end of games. i don’t know what his box scores say all the time (although presumably stacked with points), but i know he has “it” at the end of games. that is what lebron is missing.
    you can tell me about layups against the wizards and his statline against the magic, but all i know is that nobody would take lebron over carmelo at the end of games. because lebron aint clutch…certainly not on melos level.

    • Anonymous

      pretty sick shot for Melo last night. he certainly has hit his fair share of big shots, s all the way back to when he won a championship with Cuse. He is probably the best scorer in the game right now, but overall, he still doesn’t have the defensive mentality/prowess and probably never will have the ability on defense that Lebron has.

      But sure, if you had to chose one player on who to take the last shot, I’d take Melo, but I don’t think you’d find too many GM’s in the league who if they had to choose between one player or the other to have on their roster that would choose Melo over Bron.

      how many playoff games has Melo won???

      • Anonymous

        45 playoff games for Melo in 7 playoff seasons, 71 playoff games for Bron in 5 playoff seasons..

        Has he hit some big shots in his career, of course, but I’d like to see him win more than 2 playoff series in his career, and maybe some big playoff game winners before we annoint him Mr. Clutch

        • Anonymous

          Seriously, Chuck, you’re sick. Take it somewhere else. LeBron would probably have one for the thumb by now playing with Chauncey, Kenyon, Nene, J.R. Smith, the Birdman. Birdman alone would have qualified as LeBron’s best second-option of all time before he signed with the Heat.

          • Anonymous

            Meanwhile, an excellent piece in this week’s SI about how much better the Nuggets are without Carmelo.

            http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1182973/index.htm

          • Anonymous

            love the new look Nugs.. so deep, so deep, put that… to sleep!

          • Anonymous

            best quote of that piece from Karl: “All you f—— who think we won’t be good anymore, f— you,” Karl says. “That’s what I tell myself every morning now.”

            5-2 since the trade, tough road game tonight against the hot Suns..

          • eldaveablo

            I live in Denver now, and have for 11 years. The sad thing about the Nugs is that no one here cares about them. Denver sports fans are pretty soulless. they pretended to care about Melo leaving, but it was a joke.

            One thing I consistently hear about Melo that few ever have issue with: “Melo is a better scorer than LeBron.” Look, Melo is a great scorer, and very skilled. But I am fairly sure that Lebron has had a higher scoring average over the span of their careers. Am I missing something?

        • Captain Spaulding

          Don’t worry Biki, he’ll get his third playoff series victory this year when the Knicks bounce the Heat in the first round.

          • Anonymous

            i wouldn’t mind that, the city is much more fun now that the Knicks are relevant.. even more fun if St. Johns can beat the Cuse today! Big East Tourney is bananas!

        • Anonymous

          the lebron defending keeps getting sadder. i say, look at their game not the statline. you sort of agree, but then look to some different numbers. and the stats you point to are so weak: wow! lebron beat the Wizards 3 times (12 wins)! and the Nets!

          and you are somehow using the fact that melo got his team into the playoff as an 8 & 7 seed – while LB sat at home in the weaker conference – as a way to bolster lebron???

          Get serious. The nuggets competed in a way tougher conference playing title contenders in the first round, but were a few inbound passes away from taking out the Lakers in 09….at the same time lebron was quit in the final game in orlando.

          but maybe if Melo got a de facto first round bye every season, he too could have cool stats like you talked about. or maybe he shouldn’t have made the playoffs those first 2 years.

          never forget the wizards wins/layups. they can do so much to make lebron look reasonable.

          • Anonymous

            sort of agree that what? Melo is a better jump shooter than Lebron? fine, but Lebron smokes him in almost every other category that matters, particularly on defense. Lebron can dominate on both ends of the court, that has yet to be shown by Melo and I doubt it will happen anytime soon in NYC.

          • Anonymous

            i thought u agreed melo is better in the clutch (with your big shots comment), when the game is on the line. i guess not. your delusions on lebron are sadder than i realized.

          • Anonymous

            it is TBD on Melo in the clutch, he hasn’t been in that many games that mattered to really annoint him Mr. Clutch. But they certainly have played in enough games to show who the better basketball player is. There are probably 10-15 guys I would rather have on my team than Melo, dude just doesn’t bring it on both ends. Scorer, sure, he’s a great scorer.

          • Anonymous

            actually thanks to the guys at 82games, they have broken down “clutch shooting” stats, and it seems Mr. James was ranked higher in “clutch shots” in each of the past 4 years that they have posted the stats, and Lebron was never lower than #2, and was #1 2 times.

            this season: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
            09-10: http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
            08-09: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
            07-08: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

          • Anonymous

            wow, you are doing exactly what i said was dumb: coming up with stats, ignoring your eyes.

          • Anonymous

            you’re basing your opinion on one game? LOL i can appreciate why you may have disdain for LBJ, but you really don’t seem to know much about the NBA

          • Anonymous

            tonight will make lebron look clutch, too, under the 82games standard. he had a breakaway dunk in the final minute. and made 2 freethrows up 4. wow.

            but anyone that watched realize the heat won because wade did everything and lebron stood in the corner the final 5 minutes. but there really isnt a stat for that. you have to use your tv and eyeballs.

          • Anonymous

            LOL, ok bud. you’re right, lebron sucks.

          • Anonymous

            19 points, 9 assists, 8 boards.. what a terrible statline for Bron.. but the 2-0 record against the Champs must make him and the Heatles feel a little better about themselves, even though this game means very little in the big picture.

          • Anonymous

            you keep talking about stats. did you watch the game? did you see how lebron was nothing more than a decoy in the 4th? how the heat only broke their out of their end of game losing streak because LB went Scottie Pippen and let Jordan (Wade) take over.

            And I guess being Scottie Pippen is a pretty good gig. But its not Jordan level. And all you lebron lovers seem to think he is in that tier. and you use stats to prove your point, instead of eyes and tvs.

          • Anonymous

            dude, it was one game, and they needed a win. i’m sure there will be nights when Wade is the decoy, who cares, you play to win the game and just because he didn’t hit the final shot doesn’t mean he’s not the best player in the NBA today. Personally I don’t get caught up in the comparisons, bottom line Lebron is the best player in the NBA, I don’t think you will get any argument from any GM or player.

          • Anonymous

            i guarantee several, if not a majority, would not agree with that.

            and its sad to see you ignore reality with ‘wade will be a decoy too’ – yeah, those nights happened quite a bit recently and they lost down the stretch.

            whatever, i am done. people that defend his boston performance arent worth my time.

          • Anonymous

            a majority of GMs would not say LBJ is the best player in the NBA today?? LOL get over it bud, he left the Cavs, i know your little heart is broken because you think he quit, choked, or whatever you think, but he still is hands down the best player in the NBA, no questions asked.

          • Anonymous

            btw, Wade has been just as bad as LBJ this season in “last second shots”. in all the talk about how bad the Heat are, etc, they are still only 3.5 back from the 1 seed with 20 games to go, not over yet..

          • Anonymous

            Kyle Mraz wasn’t the only person slightly disappointed that Denver didn’t win the lottery that year. Like Frownie said, it seems pretty reasonable to me to think that the Nugs would have at least 1 championship by now with the talent they were able to have around Melo compared to the garbage the Cavs provided Lebron.

            07-08 team:

            PG: AI
            SG: JR/A.Carter
            SF: Bron/Kleiza
            PF: Nene/Kenyon
            C: Camby, Birdman

            that would be one tough team to go up against.

          • Anonymous

            iverson was a disaster. but lebron would have fit in perfectly on that team. because, in the words of carmelo, the team quit.

          • Anonymous

            ["PG: AI
            SG: JR/A.Carter
            SF: Bron/Kleiza
            PF: Nene/Kenyon
            C: Camby, Birdman

            that would be one tough team to go up against.']

            “Tough team”
            Biki that team would be unbeatable. It would be like putting three young stars on the same team, they would never lose. I guarantee 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or more championships.

          • Anonymous

            no, actually it wouldn’t be like putting three young stars on the same team, but if you say so..

          • Anonymous

            i love Melo, but you’d have to be nuts to want him on your team over Lebron. again, I don’t think there is a single GM in the NBA that would agree with you.

  • Anonymous

    I love the idea about tearing down all the rundown buildings and replacing them with parks. I’ve wished they would do something like that for years.

    • Anonymous

      There are groups trying to do just that. For instance, KSU’s Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative.

      http://www.cudc.kent.edu/

      Also, it’s run by some pretty cool people.

    • Anonymous

      You can’t over do the parks thing. They remove real estate from the tax roles and create additional maintenance costs for the city.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not saying that they should turn it into Canberra, but if they want more people moving into the cities, especially the “young hipster” demographic, then they need to make the city a more appealing place to live. Nobody wants to have an apartment overlooking an empty steel mill right next to the rundown warehouse, or go for a jog around the abandoned crack-houses. I’d lower residential taxes, raise sales taxes, clean up the Flats to make them “cool” and more importantly safe again, and take advantage of the lake front. They’re building that Medical Mart; Gilbert is putting up casinos to add to the nightlife, and we’ve got 3 major sports teams. Granted they all suck now, but look at the Cubs in Chicago. There is a reason they call Wrigley the World’s Largest Singles Bar. Young professionals get off work, buy bleacher seats, drink cheap beer socialize, have a great time, the Cubs likely lose, then they do it all again the next day.

        • Anonymous

          My friend actually does like to jog around abandoned crackhouses. But he *is* kind of an anomaly; it makes it easier for him to pretend he’s the star of a post-apocalyptic movie.

        • Anonymous

          there are also over 2.3 million more peole who live in the city of Chicago, much more if you count the burbs.. but definitely agree that there are some things Cleve can and should do to make downtown living more “hip”.. but good luck finding investors..

        • Anonymous

          AND while I’m in fantasy build up Cleveland mode I’d overhaul the public transportation system.

        • Anonymous

          While they’re doing all that, try making the downtown streets safe at night – let the cops do their job.

          Agree on doing something with the lakefront – start by nuking Burke.

          Wrigley is unique – in that it’s in a friendly, residential neighborhood.

  • jhf44lk

    Thank You Frownie for your excellent point of rationality. Cleveland has had it’s problems but so does everyone else. Calm down people…think about all the great things you have instead of what you think you need. Can not wait for the draft…Go Browns

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