Tony Grossi report on Jayme Mitchell further confirms that Eric Mangini never had a chance under Mike Holmgren

by Cleveland Frowns on August 2, 2011

Why take responsibility for something any sooner than you absolutely have to? A $50 million contract might be one reason. Common decency another. The combination of a looming NFL labor dispute and inevitable switch to new offensive and defensive systems for your NFL football team? Maybe less important if you knew your football team’s roster was at least a couple/few years away from properly filling out.

“Christ, Gil, you know me. Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."

This is really great:

The story goes that shortly after he arrived in a trade from the Minnesota Vikings last October [5, four games into the 2010 season], a bewildered Jayme Mitchell asked a club official what everyone else was wondering.

Why would a team playing a 3-4 defensive alignment trade for a player who has only lined up as a 4-3 defensive end in his career?

“Just be patient. You’ll see,” was the reported response.

So now the Browns are playing a 4-3 and Mitchell is projected as the starting left end.

“Nobody ever said there was a plan,” Mitchell said on Monday. “But I could sense it.”

How so?

“Just the way some of the assistant coaches used to hint, or whatever,” Mitchell said. “I don’t know, man, I could just sense it was in the air.”

Something “in the air,” there had to be. The undrafted free agent with no career starts in five seasons who was available last October for a seventh-round pick is literally the answer to everything, which seems exactly right.

“When he signed, I walked in, he was sitting down and he stood up and I said, ‘Oh my goodness.’ He just kept getting taller,” Shurmur said. “He’s a terrific looking guy.”

Goodness gracious. So what happened with Brodrick Bunkley?

In theory, other NFL franchises might be more likely to deal with those that follow “a policy of not announcing or confirming trades until a player passes a physical” than those that will blow the whistle on damaged goods, all else equal. But what good does such a policy do if the trades have to be reported to the league office before the physicals happen? How strange is this?

First, Bunkley’s reported as “a no-show at Browns training camp” yesterday, despite having shown up on the league’s official list of transactions the day before.

Then the Eagles GM “tells reporters that Bunkley refused to report to the Browns after the trade.”

Finally, “a league source” clears things up by telling Mary Kay Cabot that Bunkley “reported to Cleveland on Saturday after being traded from Philadelphia, but the Browns had some medical concerns and the trade was nullified.”

Did he come to Berea? And nobody saw him? Is anybody interested in clearing up the inconsistent statements by the Eagles front office and Cabot’s “league source”? Does somebody have an airplane ticket stub we can look at? SHOW US THE CERTIFICATE.

Relatedly, all kinds of Braylon news at Pro Football Talk. First, that nobody seems to want to sign him, per Michael David Smith:

Braylon Edwards is one of the big names still available in free agency, and it’s not clear which teams — if any — are interested in signing him.

it’s important to remember that when a player with Edwards’ physical talents isn’t drawing much interest in free agency, there’s probably a pretty good reason for that. And the reason is that Edwards is often a bigger headache than his talent justifies.

Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com reports that the Jets wanted no part of Edwards, who was viewed as a diva in the organization. Throw in the fact that he was busted for drunk driving and the fact that he seems to be asking for more money than he’s worth, and it’s easy to see why the Jets would decide to move on.

Which makes it a perfect time for Braylon to go live-tweeting a knife attack by one of his homeboys on the kitchen staff at a Birmingham, Michigan bar, then lie about it. Not even kidding:

According to FOX 2 in Detroit, two people in Edwards’ entourage were arrested after allegedly assaulting employees at a Birmingham bar.

Per the report, Edwards’ friends got into an argument with the employees.  The dispute made its way into the kitchen, and one employee was “sliced with a knife.”  The wound required 14 stitches to close.  Another employee allegedly was attacked with a fork.  (Alas, the Placesetting Trifecta was not completed, possibly because Braylon dropped the spoon.)

Edwards reportedly posted the following on Twitter at about the same time:  “Damn. Get ya knuckles ready” and “Don’t fight if.  You don’t know how.”

Curiously, Edwards recently posted the following message:  “Yo…Lost my phone last night someone sent tweets.  Deleted them and changed my password.  Sorry for the mishap hopefully never happens again!”  (We’d like to think that, if someone found Edwards’ phone and realized they had access to his Twitter page, they would have been a lot more creative than “Damn. Get ya knuckles ready” and “Don’t fight if.  You don’t know how.”)

Seriously, when does “somebody else sent those tweets” not work?

And on what other planet does the guy who saw this coming before anybody and did something about it end up losing his job for the effort? On what other planet is that guy not a hero?

Sorry, this Jayme Mitchell guy looks terrific.

Hope everyone has a decent Tuesday.

  • Anonymous

    I’m surprised Brian and Joe didn’t ask Mangini about Jayme Mitchell when they had the chance:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iCO3xDmdU

  • Anonymous

    I’m not sure how this works given that Mitchell was a free agent at the end of the year. You’re going to have to go back and work on motive a little more before we can paint another arrow on St. Mangini’s icon.

    I suppose the theory could be that they were all set to fire Mangini midseason before the nice little run, and chickened out? But they told all the assistant coaches (who were getting fired) and not Mangini. So they were all like “well, you’ll see…our replacements are going to put in a 4-3.”

    In other news, the fact that we’re keeping 3-4 rusher Marcus Bernard means that Holmgren has already hatched the plan to fire Shurmur and go back to Mangini, since it’s impossible for coaches or players to switch or mix defensive schemes.

    • Anonymous

      I’m just reading what Mitchell said.

      Also, don’t be ridiculous re: Benard. Some guys have an easier time switching between 4-3 end to 3-4 OLB than others. 6’6 285 pounders like Mitchell, not so much.

      • Vari

        It does make it remarkable based on how Mangini’s guys responded for him.  Mangini knew he was finished and a good majority of the players knew as well, yet Mangini had them buying into his philosophy.  

        • Anonymous

          isn’t it ironic how a lot of people on here rip on Randy Lerner, yet he was the ONLY owner who wanted to interview Mangini after he got canned by the Jets..  don’t ya think?  hey Randy, instead of investing in mediocre restaurants in Southhampton, or shady private equity firms, maybe you should write the book “Randy Lerner and his infinite wisdom on how to hire a winning NFL Head Coach”

          • Anonymous

            The blind squirrel’s nut.

          • Anonymous

            Gimme that gimme that gimme that nut

          • Vari

            I thought the Mac N’ Cheese was phenomenal not mediocre?

          • Anonymous

            Try the veal, it’s the best in the city

          • Vari

            I do enjoy a nice chained baby cow now and again.

          • Anonymous

            line from Godfather..  but yes, chained baby cow, when prepared properly, is quite scrumptious

          • Vari

            went right over my head.  I was always more Goodfellas than Godfather.

          • Anonymous

            You took your first pinch like a man and you learn two great things in your life. Look at me, never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut.

          • Anonymous

            It usually chained baby bull, not cow.

            Which makes me wish we had baby bull back. Although Astro did a pretty good imitation last night.

          • Brian Sipe

            and Holmgren is the only person who wanted to interview Shurmur…. what’s your point….

            at least Mangini had 2 winnig seasons in 3… Shurmur is a nobody, NO OTHER team had him on their radar

          • Anonymous

            Aww, ur name should be Brian Wipe, not Sipe…

      • Anonymous

        >>>I’m just reading what Mitchell said. >>>

        More accurately, you’re reading what Grossi says Mitchell said.

        And people who are 6’6, 285 don’t ever play in 3-4? Teams that run 3-4  never run 4-3 sets?

        Here’s a possibility that might make everyone look a little better: H&H go to Mangini after the first couple games that we lost with those ridiculous Ryan blitz gimmicks and say they’ve seen enough of this, and they think with the personnel balance having shifted in the NFL they think a hybrid 4-3 will better suit the Browns and their general lack of linebacker talent. Mangini says something noncommittal to get these cretins off his back, and the genesis of a communication mismatch is born. Heckert presses the issue by handing Mangini a 4-3 rusher midseason, partially to see just how stuck on this he is going to be. Mangini pretends that didn’t even happen. Die cast, organization unified, Mangini ascends back to heaven.

        • Anonymous

          For all the problems we’ve had with Grossi, misquoting people has never been one of them.

          But you’re telling us that the real story is that Heckert tried to get Mangini to play a 4-3 in the middle of last season and Mangini wouldn’t listen? And that the Grossi quotes are completely fabricated? Okay.

          Anyway, it’s really not hard re: Mitchell and Benard. If a guy who’s 6’6, 285 is somewhere between being quick enough to play linebacker and stout enough to plug against the run, he’s a natural 4-3 end. Also, the Browns lost those first couple games because of fumbles in their opponents’ red zone, Delhomme/Wallace interceptions returned for touchdowns, and missed chip shot field goals, not because of blitz gimmicks.

          • Anonymous

            All I’m saying is yes, you can line up a guy like Mitchell if you want to, regardless of your base defense. And yeah, it’s pretty clear that bothering to acquire Mitchell during the year means Heckert did probably think he would get used. I have a real hard time believing they brought him in and paid him to listen to a 6 month sales pitch for resigning. That’s silly.

            The most sensible explanation of this, even in light of these quotes, is that H&H had a disconnect with Mangini. Supposing the “just wait” thing is serious it may be refering to additional schemes being added during the year. Heckert may have suggested that, Mangini and the coaches might have said yeah yeah and meant that to varying degrees. Seems a lot more likely than acquiring and paying someone so that they’d be able to hear your free agent pitch sooner.

      • Berlin-T

        Please take a deep breath and say:
        Eric Mangini is no longer coaching the Cleveland Browns. 
        Take another deep breath and repeat.
        If after doing this exercise ten minutes a day for a week there is no improvement consult a psychiatrist, counselor or priest, whichever you prefer.  

        • Anonymous

          I already do all of those things for at least six hours every day.

    • eldaveablo

      Come on now, if Grossi reported it, it must be true. The fired assistant coaches were all willing to help out the next regime, even if they were getting fired. Jayme Mitchell, that we all know and trust, could “sense it”. And why wouldn’t a team official divulge secret plans to a superstar talent like Mitchell? What more do we need? It’s that type of journalism that has earned Grossi the respect that we all give him. 

      Something stinks here, but I honestly can’t decide where the smell is coming from. Are any of the sources here trustworthy? Is anything definitive, or is there just enough info (I would not be comfortable saying fact) here to put together and create any theory we want? 

      This article sure reads like something to stir the pot. Or maybe Grossi was just happy finding someone in the building willing to talk with him, and Jayme Mitchell was happy to find a reporter willing to give him the time of day?

  • Vari

    (Alas, the Placesetting Trifecta was not completed, possibly because
    Braylon dropped the spoon.)

    That’s funny!

    • Anonymous

      Dropped the spoon, dropped his phone…butta fingers.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sure the only reason that the Jets don’t want to re-sign Braylon because he went to Michigan.

    • Anonymous

      he’s goin to AZ..

      • Vari

        Good.  Now he can drop passes from Kolb.

  • Anonymous

    Since we’re once again drifting into THE topic, I’m offering a 16×20 gallery wrap canvas of the 1964 browns championship team photo to whoever can completely explicate ALL the personalities and iconographic symbolism in the following work of art:

    • Anonymous

      “He doesn’t know a thing about art, but he knows what he likes.”

    • Anonymous

      Magini as Jesus, Grossi as Roman soldier or Judas, Lerner as Pontious Pilot, Homgrin as one of the Rabbis, Shurmer as Barabbas, Braylon as another soldier, Mary Kay Cabot as Mary (Virgin or Magdolin), Peter is Frowns because I can’t think of anyone else and the water bottle is the holy grail (or Mary’s vagina depending on which version you subscribe to).  Ohhhh and the football is God looking down from above.

      • Anonymous

        I haven’t had that much fun analyzing symbolism since college lit classes.

      • Anonymous

        XXXXX

        It’s not the cruxifiction, it’s St. Sebastian. Although now I kind of wish I had worked it that way and done the roles, I didn’t. All this requires is identifying all the people, explaining their relation to Mangini’s demise ala the Frowns mythology.

        There are also 3 symbolic elements portrayed by artifacts, not people. These are the hard ones, really.

        • Anonymous

          This is right up c/f/k/a/p’s alley.

    • Anonymous

      dup

    • Anonymous

      Tiny little fix on the image here.

      We need 6 malefactors, 1 innocent pawn in the game, and 3 symbolic elements of Our Lord’s fall. Contest is open forever.

      • Anonymous

        Even with the help of a BIKI care package overnighted to me, I couldn’t even begin.  I’m not wired that way.  It’s really cool though, Bupalos!

        • Anonymous

          Oh, I see a field goal up there.  That’s a Mangini symbol if ever there was one.

          • Anonymous

            Bottlegate’s in there too.

          • Anonymous

            Someone is creeping up on the prize…..keep rolling…the contest lasts forever.

          • Anonymous

            Wondering about the significance of the headset, and also the ID of the man (?) in gold whose face we don’t see.  Hmm.  

            It’s no fun if nobody else is playing. 

          • Anonymous

            Everyone else is obviously too stupid. Again, all we need is the names of the 6 depicted malefactors. the innocent pawn, and explication of the 3 symbolic elements.

            It’s a good prize people. Get on it.

          • Anonymous

            Malefactors are Belichick, H&H, Grossi, Cabot, and  Lerner. 
            Innocent pawn is Braylon “better not drop the soap” Edwards.
            Symbolic elements are water bottle, field goal, and seahorse on Grossi.

          • Anonymous

            All malefactors are correct.

            Innocent pawn is wrong.

            Symbolic elements– you need to be more specific on “field goal” as that has 2 sub-elements, and you are missing one full symbolic element entirely.

          • Anonymous

            We’ll take this to the front page either on Friday or some time next week. Don’t be giving any prizes just yet.

          • Anonymous

            The Bus–which I hope references Magini’s camp and not Jerome Betis.  Magini is holding up three fingers as in “Go for three,” beneath the field goal/football/God.

          • Anonymous

            Still not complete. Keep everything under your hat and resubmit when the Frowner puts it up as a front pager.

      • Anonymous

        Bupa,   
        Take more meds, or perhaps a little less meds.   
        You are not in a good place now, please only listen to the friendly voices in your head, let the bad ones go away.

        • Anonymous

          Bupa,  
          However, the Field Goal is very funny.

        • Anonymous

          Oh yeah? If these voices are in my head HOW COME I CAN SEE THEM TOO?!?!!?! Not so smart now, are you Mr. Psychiatrist?!

          What?!
          NO! He’s my friend! NO!! I won’t do it. Ahrrrrggg, not the horns…not the horns…

  • http://www.redright88.com Titus Pullo

    It really says something – and not positive – about Edwards if he couldn’t find a way to fit in with Rex Ryan and the Jets.

    Someone will obviously sign him – the Bengals maybe? – because someone always does, but if you can’t make it in what is probably the most player-friendly atmosphere in the NFL, you are sending up red flags that will be very hard for other teams to ignore.

    Maybe he can go to Carolina and recreate the magic with DA.

    • Anonymous

      it’s not so much his ability or inability to fit in as it was his pricetag..  i’m sure if he came down to the $3m Plaxico signed for, then the Jets would’ve loved to have kept him..  but then how would braylon be able to pay for the cleveland scholarship fund he started??  i expect him to get $10-$15m guaranteed from someone,  most likely the Cards.. 

      • Titus Pullo

        Yep, that’s why Edwards could only get a one-year deal with San Francisco for $3.5 million.

        So much for market value.

    • Anonymous

      since when does “can’t make it in what is probably the most player-friendly atmosphere in the NFL” have ANYTHING to do with said “most player-friendly atmosphere in the NFL” running out of cap room and failing in talking Braylon into coming way, WAY down on his market value?   

      Say what you want about Braylon but he played very well in his time with the Jets, he’s one of the top run blocking WR’s in the NFL, and is only 28 years old..   

      • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

        Being the top run blocking receiver is like being the tallest midget.

        • Anonymous

          probably not the best analogy since most teams run at least 50% of the time and it’s a trait that a lot of coaches like to see out of their receivers..  it seems to me that if you have a guy who is a deep threat, can command double teams, and can also help in the run game, they would be a valuable addition to a team, even with some of the “diva” baggage that comes along with him…   

          • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

            Seeing as how Braylon would only help with one of the three you listed at this point, I would like to propose putting guards out wide in lieu of ever signing him again.

          • Anonymous

            i take it you haven’t watched the Jets play the past couple seasons with him.. he got doubled quite frequently, even with Santonio on the other side…  keep hatin playa

          • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers
          • Anonymous

            they were not hating on him, just basically going over some of the bonehead stuff he’s done..  i didn’t say he was a genius, but the dude can play WR.. 

  • Anonymous

    Happy bday you dilk! Keep defending Mangini!

    • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

      Happy happy hap yap birrrthday

      XoXo

  • FoolMeOnce

    While not in agreement with it, I’ve largely decided to move on from the Mangini firing. This site seems to be the last to let go…. It is what it is…

    That is until I start re-reading older articles re: Braylon included here. With hindsight it becomes apparent that Mangini-era never had chance. All it took was the ego of 1 bad apple player and the ego of 1 bad apple media guy to tango together. It was all uphill all the time for that coaching staff thanks to the two of them. Joe P. had a great article the other day about the impact of a single event and what might have been. Would love to see what would have happened if Mangini shipped B Easy out in the 2009 draft.

    If there’s karma in this world Mangini will get another chance and hopefully be successful. He’s 2-for-2 in my mind on taking on train wreck projects and making something worthwhile out of them. As for B Easy, in a twist of irony, I think he’ll find himself running uphill the rest of his career. There aren’t a lot of teams willing to take in a mildly impactful, organization polluting diva. And of those I’m guessing most won’t appeal to his high-standards of living.

    • Anonymous

      In the spirit of not letting go, try your hand at the St. Mangini’s Passion Contest further down the thread. Prize is a 16×20 canvas print of the 1964 browns championship team photo.

      On the One Bad Player theory, one notes that Mangini’s mentor/nemesis has voluntarily taken on Randy Moss and now Haynesworth and is living to tell the tale. Not to go all Daddy McCoy, but I’m not sure that if the road needs to be artificially smoothed out for a coach that he’s really worth all that. The divas are part of the job.

      • FoolMeOnce

        Interesting point, but you’re ignoring a whole lot of context there. Belichick didn’t start taking on divas until it was clear he was the big man on campus. In fact in his own mini-B Easy didn’t he suspend then jettison Terry Glenn in his first year or two before he was BMOC? And using Moss as an example is interesting. Didn’t he kick him to the curb last year for diva-ish behavior?
        In Belichick’s favor is the pact that players now want to stay with the Patriots because they win, and along with that, get the commensurate media exposure. I don’t think he has to deal with the problems that Mangini inherited as his diva’s are on good behavior. If they aren’t he promptly kicks them to the curb…
        Last point on divas – you’re right that every good team will have a few and that it’s the coaches job to deal with that. Problem here was that our divas weren’t very good. If they were I think they’d still be around. I don’t see any former Browns lighting it up across the NFL these days…

        • Anonymous

          K2 had a pretty good year for TB, however Watson wasn’t too far behind him and was MUCH cheaper, and less whiny as well… 

          • FoolMeOnce

            Yeah – K2 was a pretty good player when healthy. I also have a hard time catagorizing him as a diva. He played hard and some of his gripes were legitimate from what I recall. He certainly had potential though…

        • Anonymous

          I’m just raising the point because around here, Mangini is St. Mangini and I don’t think he really ever earned his stripes. He had a good line about The Process, but ultimately the question is whether you can implement your Process in the real world terms it takes to actually win. I thought it was kind of weak that when he came in, Mangini loaded up on second rate talent that he knew was coachable. He did it in the draft and by trading to bring in system guys from the Jets. Exactly zero of those players were plus talent guys. Some of them were old, no-future guys. So yeah, he coaches well, and yeah, his teams over-perform their talent. But that game looks a bit rigged to me.

          • Anonymous

            And then on top of a solid foundation he brings in talented pieces like Darelle Revis, DBrickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold, Calvin Pace, Kris Jenkins, David Harris, Dustin Keller, Thomas Jones, etc. and his team becomes a Super Bowl contender (until they let a boisterous charlatan take his job and everything erodes).

            The “system guys”/”rigged game” line of yours couldn’t be worse horseshit.

          • Anonymous

            ????

            Again, Mangini was NOT GM or final arbiter over there, as evidenced by the whole Farvrah hubub. And while he was fired mostly because of the meltdown, it’s pretty clear from the knives that came out that that locker room was not in good shape. If he stayed on in NY he probably would have needed to purge. That’s part of what I’m basing the claim that he doesn’t have bona fides in coaching dificult-to-coach talent. Not saying he can’t. Just saying I don’t think that’s proven. 

            Were all the system Jets guys he brought in just the most talented players available, or was there a significant element of “these are the guys I know will make my system work?”

            As for that second part, since when does going to the AFC championship game two out of two years after not sniffing that kind of success before count as “everything eroding?” The fact is that NY locker room is clearly in better shape now. You are trying to have several cakes after eating them. Mangini is responsible for the Jets current talent (only partially true), but coaching makes a huge difference, but Rex Ryan has been more successful because is just living off Mangini’s talent/culture infusion, but the Browns have 0 talent despite M having had total control at least for a year. Going from 8-8 to the AFC championship game twice counts as collapse, but  going from 6-10 to 5-11 to 5-11 counts as remarkable improvement.

            There are great points to Mangini. Too bad he wasn’t brought in by a GM. That was what doomed this thing.

  • Anonymous

    Phil Taylor signed..  are some of you less “concerned about his character”??

    • eldaveablo

      Admittedly, I was a little worried about his character – until I read about the issues other players in his draft range were having. 

      Then my concern turned to just getting him on the field. Now I’m relieved, and can’t wait to see him stuffing the middle. 

      • Anonymous

        who does Big Phil most resemble?  Suge Knight or Uncle Phil (or are they all identical?)

    • Anonymous

      Already said the major thing for me was tweet-tauting the browns during negotiations, not having a problem resolving the contract.

      • Anonymous

        i don’t find any problem with the tweet taunting, the ownership still got a great deal in this labor agreement and the rookies got the brunt of it as well..  it’s not like he’s taunting the fans, he’s taunting the front office to do what’s right..  and they did..  

        • Anonymous

          Sorry, it’s bush to go outside a negotiation like that. It’s not a capital offense, but it goes in the file.

          • Anonymous

            so did you put all the bush stuff the owners and their reps said about the lockout in the file too?  DERP.  seems to me the fans should be on the players side, but to each is own..  maybe we need to get you this t-shirt from entourage.. 

  • Anonymous

    Happy Birthday Tacos!  What year were you born?  I need to check a theory I have.

  • Anonymous

    We are all Kipnises!

    • Anonymous

      And Chizzies!

    • Anonymous

      Kipnis looks like a playa to me, but it is fair to note that without his contributions offensively and defensively, the outcome would have been a 2-1 loss instead of a 3-2 loss.

      Huff is the one who really deserves the shout out. I don’t know how all this young, speculative pitching is coming through, but it is. Unbelievable job by him last night especially with the defense.

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  • Brian Sipe

    I too thought that when I read it… Holmgren and Heckart were drafting as well as getting FA’s that did not fit Mangini’s scheme at all.  On top of that they gave him Delhomme for good measure to make sure he failed.  I also got pissed at Grossi talking about how Colt was treated under Mangini and how Holmgren had to pick him up.   That whole team was a sham last year and Holmgren wasted a 2 years the way I see it… Manngini never had a chance which wasted last year and now this year they will say “it takes time, it’s a new staff”  

    • Believelander

      And in 2-3 years we will sweep everything out for the Next Small Thing.

    • Anonymous

      Brian Sipe = Eric Wipe

    • Anonymous

      >>>I too thought that when I read it… Holmgren and Heckart were drafting as well as getting FA’s that did not fit Mangini’s scheme at all. >>>
      As opposed to Mangini, who was getting coachable players that fit his scheme…who simply couldn’t play.

      >>>On top of that they gave him Delhomme for good measure to make sure he failed. >>>
      Because leaving him with Brady Quinn would have been so much better.

      Just wish folks could face the fact that it’s MUCH more important for a team to have a good front office bringing in solid talent, and for the whole organization to be on the same page, than it is to have some magical, genius coach with a Process and a System that turns lead to gold. Talented teams win, untalented teams lose, and in this mature NFL where everyone is doing the same things and using the same tools, coaching makes a difference only at the margins.

      • Anonymous

        Seriously, stop with the “coachable players” crap. He added Darelle Revis, DBrickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold, Calvin Pace, Kris Jenkins, David Harris, Dustin Keller, Thomas Jones and more to the Jets. Was on the same track here, but started with a much worse mess.

        • Anonymous

          Not that I’ve follow Jets football much, but I thought he had a GM over there, no? Yes.  It was here, 1st year that he had carte blanche and it seems to me he got a whole bundle of bad, mediocre, and washed up players that were already his system guys, and a slate of rookies that all had “maybe a little less talented but very coachable” on their reports. Not sure I completely blame him coming into a tough situation, but the “tear it to the ground and staff it with old guys I know understand me” isn’t any kind of miracle of coaching, nor was it a great building plan in retrospect.

          I hate getting boxed into arguing that Mangini wasn’t a good coach. I think he was mostly pretty good. The fault for the whole situation lies in trying to combine coach/gm in the first place.

          • Anonymous

            Nobody’s boxing you in and the GM really doesn’t have much to do with it. You’re the one who keeps saying Mangini can’t/won’t coach talented players, which is absurd.

            As for the Coach/GM thing and ’09 (which is really beside the point), it’s been pointed out before that Robiskie and Massaquoi are the only guys you can really argue about not being worth the price. Massaquoi was picked right where he was slotted, only Robiskie was really “reached for” but he was the consensus “most NFL ready” of any WR in the draft, and again, Mangini had every incentive to reach for receivers that year.

            Whatever’s a “great building plan,” he was making obvious progress, and it’s hard to imagine anyone doing better with what he had.

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