The Browns deserve patience, the Bengals are suddenly talented, and Tony Grossi just lies and lies and lies

by Cleveland Frowns on September 14, 2011

As depressing as it is that the Cleveland press spent the entirety of Eric Mangini’s two seasons here openly begging for the dismissal of the first decent football coach the Lerner-era Browns have ever had, it’s understood that Mangini is gone, that Pat Shurmur is the new head coach, and that it’s certainly not worth getting too worked up over a new coach-friendly slant in the papers after these folks blew so much gas to have Mangini run. Yins and yangs, turn, turn, turn, whatever. Which might actually be fine if these people could muster even just a spot of respect for their readers, or just a shred of honesty on which to prop their lowest-common-denominator vendettas.

Instead we have the Plain Dealer’s Tony Grossi, eliminating questions as to his status as the worst hack in NFL press history at an amazing and alarming pace. The same Tony Grossi who also happens to be the leading voice of the credentialed press for the worst franchise in modern league history, reacting on Monday to the Browns impossibly embarrassing season opener against the Bengals.

It all started innocently enough. “Hey Frowns, Grossi’s melting down on Twitter again, you gotta check this out …

Somehow Tony doesn’t think Mangini would have done any better on Sunday. Just because. Somehow. Of course. Fine fine fine. Nevermind (again) that the Browns never lost as 6-plus favorites under Mangini (and actually lost as favorites only once under the former head coach (when the Seneca Wallace-led Cleveland team amazingly weighed in as two-point chalk to the eventual AFC West champion Chiefs in Week 2 last season)), nevermind that Mangini’s Browns, as physically overmatched as they might have been on a few Sundays early in 2009, never looked as unprepared to line up for a football game than the current edition did in the first quarter last Sunday, and nevermind that Mangini’s Browns never got done by a pee wee trick like the Shurmur’s did on the game-winning quick snap (which wasn’t actually a quick snap, and maybe not even a pee wee trick) touchdown to A.J. Green.

Mangini wouldn’t have done any better last Sunday because Tony says so, and you guys should be patient, because Tony saw some good out there on Sunday. Of course, if Grossi has proven anything over the last two years, it’s that he knows how to spot the silver lining around even the darkest clouds.

And Mangini isn’t coming back anyway so why can’t everybody just let it go.

Which again, might actually be fine, if it wasn’t for things like this:

So let’s assume that Grossi actually had been saying all week that the Bengals were more talented than the Browns (hard to say since he didn’t really put that in writing, and actually joined a unanimous Plain Dealer panel in picking the Browns to win the game, by 4 points, noting that “[l]osing to a rookie quarterback in his maiden game is not the way to jump-start a new era”). It’s like Tony thinks we can’t remember (or couldn’t just look up) what he said about the Cincinnati team some nine months ago when Mangini’s thoroughly injury-ravaged Browns lost to the Bengals by two points on the road at the end of last season, without getting done by any pee wee tricks, and with only 25 penalty yards on three flags to help the bad guys.

Last season, Grossi could hardly wait to tell us that the Bengals were “the NFL’s dregs,” “cupcakes,” over which Mangini’s injury ravaged troops should have “rolled over” for an “easy win.” Grossi added that the depleted Browns “played down” to Cincinnati (as opposed to last Sunday when they apparently “played up” to a more talented opponent and just missed), and he used this series of canards to justify his conclusion that last season’s last Bengals game made Mangini’s future as head coach of the Browns “black and white.” (Really, please read what Grossi (and some of his cohorts) wrote about last year’s loss to the Bengals here (and here)).

So since nobody could possibly believe that the current edition of the Browns is any less “talented” than the Ray Ventrone and Nick Sorensen-laden M.A.S.H. unit that Mangini was forced to run out against the Bengals in Week 15 last season, we have to assume it’s that the Bengals have made some massive improvements on last season’s “cupcake” status. The Bengals, who this season are roundly touted as one of the worst teams in the league, a nearly unanimous pick to finish at the bottom of the AFC North (whereas last year’s edition was a popular pick to repeat as division champs), who are starting a rookie quarterback instead of Carson Palmer (and following that rookie up with Bruce Gradkowski), the same Bengals who’ve replaced two Hall of Fame (if fading) wideouts with a rookie (albeit an extremely talented rookie) and a fourth-year nobody, and who lost one of the most best  young cornerbacks in the league, Jonathan Joseph, to free agency. These Bengals aren’t cupcakes at all. There’s no rolling over these guys.

That’s all. And the point isn’t that the Bengals aren’t a better team than the preseason touts seem to think (we said as much here on Monday). It’s not that Pat Shurmur doesn’t deserve patience after one game as an NFL head coach (he surely does). Nor is it that an Eric Mangini-coached Browns team would have beaten the Bengals last Sunday (there’s absolutely no doubt that Year 3 Mangini’s Browns would have destroyed the Bengals last Sunday, of course). The point is just that Tony Grossi keeps writing lies in the newspaper about Cleveland’s favorite thing when his job is actually to do the very opposite. And of course, again, that any market that supports this guy as the most widely-broadcast custodian of truth with respect to such a cherished resource has surely gotten exactly what it’s deserved from this resource since it returned to existence in ’99. Lord deliver us from the Pain Dealer please please please, etc. Amen.

Hope everyone’s having a decent Wednesday. We’ll be back tomorrow with something much more fun.

  • Anonymous

    who is Tony Grossi???

    • Anonymous

       He means horsefish.

      • Anonymous

        who?

        • Anonymous

          Horsefish. He’s a mythical creature that’s half dead horse, half fish, that controls the fate of the Cleveland Browns. Lives in a barrel out on 480. You shoot the fish half and beat the horse half, and that’s supposed to make the Browns win. What are you, new?

          • Anonymous

            Jesus, everybody knows THAT.  Biki’s just deficient. 

          • Believelander

            That might be the most funlarious anti-Frowns joke in the history of this blog. I giggloled in spite of myself.

  • Anonymous

    frowns is bringing the hot fire.  one of your best grossi smackdowns ever.

    • Anonymous

      yah, that was a rather intense evisceration. Dead on.

      • The Cuuuuuuuuuuugs

        At least one person gives Tony Grossi what he deserves.

        Ever think that maybe he keeps doing his thing just because he gets so much traffic on this site, it actually makes it look like people read him?

      • Believelander

        Who needs food badly?

  • Anonymous

    I won’t do my usual “stop talking about Grossi” on this one because it happens to be true enough and well sourced enough that the fact that he doesn’t matter doesn’t matter.

    Even tiny truths are important when they are this pure.

    • Anonymous

      Bup: You being the actual only person on earth besides Biki who ever complains about the Grossi posts, I was actually hoping you’d say something like that. Thank you.

      • Anonymous

        Hey my only complaint really is that it’s like watching a truck run over a dying rabid raccoon. I mean yeah, the raccoon should go, but it’s hard to root for the truck.

        Where’s the cheddar?

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

          It’s easy to root for the truck when the raccoon chased your dog away and your dog is never coming back.

          (I think I did that right)

          • Anonymous

            What kind of dog gets run off by a sick raccoon?

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            That’s not really the point here. The point is that he’s not coming back.

          • Anonymous

             No, that is my point. Raccoons don’t run off dogs, and horsefish don’t run off saints.

          • Jaceczko

            LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE

          • Anonymous

            I really wish that you could disabuse me of this apparently naive notion that what people say about other people in massively circulated publications tends to have a significant impact on those people. The point isn’t that Holmgren took any orders from Grossi, it’s that Grossi (and his ilk) gave Holmgren significant cover to take the action he did, under profoundly dishonest pretenses. Why even have newspapers?

          • Anonymous

            bud shaw got it right today and pluto’s ‘unmitigated disaster’ column hit the target.

            but it is most troublesome when beat reporters parrot what they’re told by brown’s FO rather report on WHAT WE ALL SEE WITH OUR EYES.

            re-quoting myself here, bad form, sorry:
             * big show said ‘no excuses’ this year.  
             * shurmur played j. jett for 30 minutes on final pre-season game… so he liked the teams prep.  
             * heckert rode to war without steinbach, passed on gurode/waters, and stocked his o-line with oneil cousins, artis hicks, and some other waiver pickup… so he was comfy with the personnel.

            why aren’t these issues being followed up on by grossi/mkc?

          • Vari

            Because that would be investigative journalism.  Grossi would rather lob a softball in for the rest of us.  There should be scores of columns completely dedicated to how embarrassed the whole organization should be from Lerner down to the guy who paints the lines on the field.  Instead we mushmouth bullshit from lackeys like Grossi.  I’m so embarrassed that i might paint over watching Sunday.  Paint people.  The worst thing on earth next to NSA interrogation.

          • Anonymous

            The only decent answer to these questions is #Suck4Luck

          • Anonymous

            Stop it guys.  I love you, but there may be some big trouble for you at recess, or on the way home from school.

          • Anonymous

            “your dog is never coming back.”
            CM,  
            You did not do that correctly.
            You went from Bupa’s bad analogy to pure evil, you must cheer for the needle when you watch the ASPCA commercials.
            Please guys, criticize each other, the Steelers, the Ravens, Grossi, or even me, but please stop the sad animal visuals.

        • Anonymous

          Horrible analogy Bupa!
          You cheered when Old Yeller died, you are that kind of person.

  • Fool Me Once

    Beyond the point that Tony is a biased hack of a journalist, or the fact that he gives off a general dick-ish condescending vibe – saying there was “some good there” should be grounds for dismissal. What game did he watch?

    • Anonymous

      there is nothing good about going on a 17-0 run after battling back from being down 13-0??   what game did you watch???  

      • Fool Me Once

        I suppose that if your bar is set low enough you could find that the second quarter looked pretty solid. Of course if you watched the other 3 quarters you would have seen a team that was repeatedly pushed around at the line (both sides), averaged about 5 plays a drive, a romeo crennel like penchant for unforced penalties, remarkably poor special teams (tho admittedly the punter was playing hurt), and most tellingly a team giving up huge plays when it mattered most and not making any when they were in need. And this was at home against a rookie (and then scrub backup QB).

        Listen, i’m not a sky is falling kind of guy and it’s just one game. I expect this isn’t the norm. But if you walked away from that game with any silver lining, well, i dunno. There will (hopefully) be better days.

        • Anonymous

          it just blows that we will never know how the game would’ve ended if we didn’t allow the Bengals to score on the easiest TD I’ve seen in years, if not ever…  there were plenty of positives/silver linings during the 17-0 run we had, PLENTY.  and there were plenty of negatives too, but there will definitely be better days Fool

        • Anonymous

          it just blows that we will never know how the game would’ve ended if we didn’t allow the Bengals to score on the easiest TD I’ve seen in years, if not ever…  there were plenty of positives/silver linings during the 17-0 run we had, PLENTY.  and there were plenty of negatives too, but there will definitely be better days Fool

          • Fool Me Once

            Well here’s to better days. If you believe in cosmic things like karma and balance and equilibrium (and parity :) Cleveland is in for a major treat someday soon. Hopefully these Browns (eventually) deliver.

          • Anonymous

            UM. If you believe in cosmic things like karma and balance and equilibrium, then you know that Cleveland will remain impossibly fucked until a certain throbbing issue is addressed. http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2008/06/the-curse-of-chief-wahoo/

      • Fool Me Once

        I suppose that if your bar is set low enough you could find that the second quarter looked pretty solid. Of course if you watched the other 3 quarters you would have seen a team that was repeatedly pushed around at the line (both sides), averaged about 5 plays a drive, a romeo crennel like penchant for unforced penalties, remarkably poor special teams (tho admittedly the punter was playing hurt), and most tellingly a team giving up huge plays when it mattered most and not making any when they were in need. And this was at home against a rookie (and then scrub backup QB).

        Listen, i’m not a sky is falling kind of guy and it’s just one game. I expect this isn’t the norm. But if you walked away from that game with any silver lining, well, i dunno. There will (hopefully) be better days.

  • eldaveablo

    On a totally unrelated note… After watching the game with the Mile High Browns Backers, I moved on to another locale with my lady friend to drown our sorrows in more beer & wings. At the new place we were approached (because of our Browns Jerseys) by none other than Reuben Droughns. He apparently still has love for Cleveland and even still owns a house there. 

    He was a really good dude and talked with us for a while (even though we were not exactly of sound mind). Also, he looked in great shape. I was kind of thinking the Browns could use him as a third running back. He was a rock. 

    • Anonymous

      PICTURES OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN.

      • eldaveablo

        Trying to get the pictures as we speak. We met a couple at the bar (Melissa & Hector) who took pics, and I am trying to get em. Totally surreal day overall…

        • Anonymous

          MELISSA, HECTOR, GET US THESE PICS! PHENOMENAL BLOG POSTS ABOUT RUBEN DROUGHNS DON’T WRITE THEMSELVES.

        • Anonymous

          Are you certain it was Ruben Droughns?
          I believe you, I am merely concerned for your safety.
          I once ran into Bernie Kosar and had a brief discussion.
          I was really excited, but later I found out that he was actually Bernie Madoff, my wallet was missing and those investment tips he gave me did not pay off.

    • Anonymous

      It says a lot about this area when athletes choose to remain in some capacity after their tenure ends.  I was listening to Reggie Langhorne the other day – I forget which station – and he sounded like he still was active in the area.

      Anybody know who else has done that?  I know Brian Brennan is here, they’re in my parish and his youngest was in my son’s class all through grade school. 

      • CJMinCLE

        As of 2 years ago Lee Suggs was an assistant coach at Oberlin High School, and playing in a Tuesday night softball league in North Olmsted…Horrible softball player. 

        • Anonymous

          “Horrible softball player.”
          You have to respect that, men playing softball is all about playing badly.

      • Anonymous

        Tom Tupa Jr. is playing for Brecksville. 

        • Anonymous

          Yeah, that’s right.  His brother Marc and family lived on my street – his son had the spine injury playing for St. Ignatius.  That was awful, but he’s doing well, went to ND.

  • Jim

    Don’t disagree at all with the post except with the alleged terribleness of the Bungles.  As someone who lived in the Nasty Nati for a number of years, hates that team with a passion, and watches them most Sundays with the hope that they lose so I can call my few friends who are still Bungles fans and gloat, I can tell you that no one is giving their defense as much credit as it deserves.  Just two seasons ago they had one of the better defenses in the league.  Last season injuries decimated the front seven. 

    Now much of those players have returned and even with the loss of one of their two stud CB’s, they are still a solid defense.  The offense, of course, is terrible, although I think the receiving corps can be really good if they had a QB to throw them the ball.  Green, Simpson, Gresham, Shipley is not too shabby, especially if Green gets to play against other cornerbacks in the league besides Haden, who looked great save for one play.  

    As for the litany of penalties and all around sloppy play, I wonder how much the shortened pre season had to do with it. 

    • Zulads4

      “As for the litany of penalties and all around sloppy play, I wonder how much the shortened pre season had to do with it. ”

      I think this cop out just has not merit, and really is just a fall back excuse to try and save face and season ticket holders.  The reason it has no merit is two fold: 1.  Nobody forced the team to fire the head coach and start all over when they knew there was going to be a labor strike and probably time lost, 2.  Nobody forced them to sit the starters in the final preseason game. 

      I think it is reasonable to say if the starters played even the first quarter of that final preseason game that the awful 9 penalty first quarter against the Bengals might not happen.

      So the ‘shortened pre-season, no OTA’s crap is all bull.  They chose to can the head coach and enter an offseason of uncertainty starting over, and they chose not to use the entire pre-season to their advantage.  It is their fault they are not prepared.

      • Jaceczko

        Yep.

    • Anonymous

      2 years ago their defense was ranked 4th best in least yards allowed.. not bad..  

      • Anonymous

        I think I’ve said here eleventy threeve times that the Bengals defense looks pretty decent, which is completely beside the point.

        • Anonymous

          sir, i wasn’t referring to your post, i believe i responded to Jim and was reaffirming his thought about the Bengals being a year removed from being a Top 5 defense in the league..  they are certainly well coached on that side of the ball with Marvin and Zimmer.. 

    • Anonymous

      Yeah I’m actually a little worried about the bungles. Hate to say it, but Dalton actually looked pretty damn good.

      Its kind of funny that everyone’s wetting themselves about luck, talking about tanking seasons, and the odds are very good that one of the other dozen quarterbacks drafted in these last couple years will end up with a better career.

      • Anonymous

        The odds are actually not good that any quarterback picked this decade will be better than Luck, just like they were not good that any quarterback picked in the 80s would be better than John Elway.

        Unrelatedly, I was in your parts yesterday, bup. Drove from Warren to Cleve Hts on 422. Hadn’t been that way since I was a kid. Really pretty drive.

        • Anonymous

          The odds were not good if you say so, but against these poor odds, 2 quarterbacks that were better than Elway came out of his very draft, Marino and Kelly. Then Steve Young went the next year, he was way better. Montana was drafted 4 years before, he was better. If you put a 10 year window around old horseyface, he was generously the 5th best QB of his decade. I think Elway is really one of the most overrated players of all time, and a lot of that has to do with the hype he got before the draft, just like Luck.

          September-November out here is progressively more awesome. But get your driving in while you can. In a couple of years we’re likely to be so clogged up with natural gas fracking trucks it won’t be quite so pleasant.

          • Anonymous

            Marino/Kelly, 0 Super Bowls, < Elway.

            Steve Young/Montana ran Bill Walsh's plays w/ Jerry Rice < Elway.

            It's not even a debate.

          • Anonymous

            Oh sweet Jesus you have got to be kidding me. For one, that you played on a team that won the superbowl is right about the stupidest critera possible in evaluating any player, but especially so in Elway’s case since he played badly in each one, win or lose. His career passing rating isn’t even top 20, probably not top 40 for postseaon play. Seriously…he wasn’t all that good. Browns fans have outsized memories of this Guy.

          • Anonymous

            #withouttheringitdontmeanathing #donteventalktome #rings #things #champions

          • Anonymous

            Yeah I went back and checked up…elway is not top 50 in career passing rating, probably not top100 postsesson because his numbers all drop badly, and there is really not a single career metric where he’s more than top 20. Elway very simply was not a great quarterback. He had 2 or 3 really outstanding years, a few miserable years, and a bunch of solid years.

            All the guys I listed are just objectively better, whether or not Scott Norwood choked a kick.

          • Anonymous

            I’m with you on Luck but this ranking is truly troublesome and has me questioning every other word you’ve ever written regarding talent.

            Elway is a distant 5th among the QB’s you mention. Not even close.

  • Anonymous

    Very nice piece complete with sources, something in which the subject of the topic seldom provides.

    “There’s absolutely no doubt that Year 3 Mangini’s Browns would have destroyed the Bengals, of course”

    While I do happen to agree with you, are you just doing the same thing Grossi does here just to be a troll?
    Tbh, that is how I view Grossi, an elitist troll, and although it is rare to accurately derive context from print, he really does come off ‘dick-ish’ , as one of our bretheren noted.

    • Anonymous

      “While I do happen to agree with you, are you just doing the same thing Grossi does here just to be a troll”

      Absolutely. What’s your pleasure, honest trolls or lying ones?

      • Anonymous

        always an honest troll, it makes the trolling all the more fun. However, someone (Cuuuuuuuuuuugs?) does have a point in Grossi simply doing it for attention..

      • Believelander

        Treasure ones. And Greek ones named Pete.

    • zarathustra

      This is no joke. I had a friend tell me that steinbach’s injury was Mangini’s fault because Mangini had him gain too much. I promise that this friend did not come up with this on his own. He read/ heard it from somebody in the media.

      • zarathustra

        I goofed. The above was supposed to reply to the below comment from davekolonich.

        • Anonymous

          No worries, it works fine here. I mean, that’s exactly the problem. The herd is only as fast as it’s slowest member like Cliff Clavin said.

  • Davekolonich

    If Week One is what to be expected this year, then who does Tony target?  

    Certainly not Shurmur or McCoy – and God forbid, Mike Holmgren.  

    In the name of easy, precious access, such a move would be heresy.  

    My guess?  It’s all Eric Mangini’s fault.  Look at that roster he left behind.  Right?

    • Anonymous

      WHY DID HE PICK ALEX MACK? WE COULDA HAD SANCHIZE! AND HOOLIO JONEZ !?!

    • Anonymous

      Dave,

      I know you’re partly joking but there is so much truth to this question.  It must be asked.   Now that Holmgren has used his scapegoat…who’s next?

      If the Browns lose to a rudderless Colts team on Sunday, then this iteration of the Browns is taking on an eerie similarity to the teams of the past.   How, then, could anyone argue that they are “better” without the coaches we were supposed to be subtracting to improve?

      While we’re on that subject, we were to believe that our offensive woes last year centered around Brian Daboll and while I will admit there were some valid criticisms here and there….THAT guy just hung 400+ passing yards on Belichick’s defense without the benefit of a real threat of a running game.  Funny how having a guy who can make throws to guys who can catch them makes a difference.

    • Anonymous

      No he’d definitely go after McCoy. He brings up the weak arm thing all the time.

      • Anonymous

        I agree that McCoy is definitely next in line. Then it will be the Shurmur offensive coordinator duties.

  • Anonymous

    It’s sad to think that someone of this “journalistic caliber” is actually a thought leader regarding this team.  When your main argument is eminence-based as opposed to evidence-based that’s usually going to turn into tons of chest-thumping and hand gestures.  Usually those people have no more clues than anyone else.

    The mistake here folks is to believe for a second that the New York media and the Cleveland media after them chose to turn on Mangini because he wasn’t exciting enough to interview.  I would argue that the real reason the Tony Grossis of the world have tried to run Mangini out is because he didn’t make their lives easy by spoon-feeding them news.   Tony, that wouldn’t be “reporting”.  That would be “copying”.  I think the one quote that reverberates in my head is from Marla Ridenour:

    “Not when they looked unprepared to play against an opponent they were
    favored to beat by 6 1/2 points…Basically, the Browns were snookered by six-year veteran Gradkowski, alert enough to recognize the defensive chaos and catch them unprepared”

    This is damning.  What more damning can one say about a coach’s team?

    Would the Mangini Browns have won on Sunday?  After seeing what he could do to the likes of Drew Brees and Tom Brady, I have no doubt that a rookie and a journeyman would have had
    their heads spinning.  I have no doubt that they would have won but make no mistake: These Bengals are better and that’s because of subtraction.   Dave Lapham was on NFL Radio this morning talking about how Ochocinco only had one catch and limited targets on Monday night because he’s essentially too stupid to learn the playbook.   He apparently had this problem in Cincy as he always played the “X”.   He also pointed out that the Bengals were never able to  motion him across the formation.  He frequently ran the wrong routes.  Even Cincy’s playbook was too hard for him.  The other issue with last year’s Bangles is that the WRs  were so selfish they wouldn’t run block.  

    Fast forward to now.  They’ve got young guys who want to be good and they are “team guys”.   THAT is why the Bangles are better this year and that’s a big part of why they won on Sunday.  We, on the other hand were in a quagmire of disorganization.

  • Anonymous

    FrOrange……I’m really tired of your approach to Grossi. Instead of innuendo and disingenuous peripheral references, why don’t you just say what you really think about him? Let it out.

     It’ll be cathartic. You’ll feel better.

    • Believelander

      I agree, some refreshing honesty would be appreciated here. This is sports journalism, Pete, not a date at a middle school dance!

      #onlytouchingshoulders #loljk

      • Anonymous

        Finally…some confirmation and consensus. Thanks, Believe. 

        Yeah Pete, get off your tippie toes. 

      • Anonymous

        Believe,
        What a coincidence that you bring that up….
        Grossi and Frownie actually went to a few middle school dances together.
        Just casual dating, nothing serious.

  • Brian Sipe

    I too am furius at this… “it takes tme attitude” adopted by the press and that moron Vick Curruci who sounds like he gets pressers stright from Berea for his show. 

    Mangini got one frick’n year, by year 2 Holmgren was in charge and Mangini was GONE and he knew it….

    anyone have any idea when Holmgren is accountable for anything with the Browns?

    I fear Holmgren is the Keith Hernandez of the Browns, comes here to collect a huge payday, does nothing and laughs about it for years to come on national talk radio shows.

    • Anonymous

      Carucci’s show is broadcast from the Browns facility in Berea. 

      Holmgren will become accountable probably when someone hands Randy Lerner one balance sheet too many that bears red ink.  He probably will go into politics next – he’s very good at speaking without saying anything.

    • Anonymous

      Vic Carucci (If I am not mistaken) is employed by the Browns to do that show.  He’s not going to come close to anything resembling critical journalism.

      I think that Holmgren is here for a while and Lerner is going to leave him alone because Lerner doesn’t have a clue about football. 

      The “it takes time” argument is true to a point and that’s why pressing the “reset button” on Mangini is really just another slap in the face of the fan.  Mangini only got until the first bye to be honest.  At that point, Holmgren was a fait accomplit and his fate was more or less sealed. 

      The annoying thing in my mind is that Mangini was hired with a set of expectations and we were all told that winning in year 1 was not an expectation.   Next thing you know he’s being fired for not winning.  If you start with ground rules and someone changes them on you mid-stream….it’s like pulling the rug out from under you.  If someone came to your place of employment and kept changing the job description week to week without telling you, you’d be a tragic case too.

      At some point, as I have stated before, it “is time” to take stock of what’s been accomplished and what has not.   While Shurmur is new, Holmgren and Heckert have been here for two drafts and free agency periods.  It may not be time to judge them yet but a sample size is increasing and you have to wonder if this will look like Holmgren’s Seattle experience (?Koren Robinson, anyone) or Heckert’s Philadelphia one.  If the former, that’s not good.

      It’s too soon to grade the 2010 draft but you’ve already dismissed Asante, Mitchell and Geathers.  Lauvao is still challenged and is certainly not dominating anyone.  Hardesty is the injury risk we new he was when we reached to trade up and take him at #59. 

      The 2011 class is looking pretty good this early but aside from Phil Taylor, it’s unclear what else we truly have for the long term.

      • Brian Sipe

        wow… not that was a well thought out mini blog…. very nice

        • Anonymous

          This guy has been doing some excellent work here ever since he popped in last week.

      • Brian Sipe

        wow… not that was a well thought out mini blog…. very nice

    • Anonymous

      liked for the ‘it takes time’ crap were being fed again.  

      big show said ‘no excuses’ this year.  shurmur played j. jett for 30 minutes on final pre-season game… so he liked the teams prep.  heckert rode to war without steinbach, passed on gurode/waters, and stocked his o-line with oneil cousins, artis hicks, and some other waiver pickup… so he was comfy with the personnel.

      clearly the FO thought this is a winning team… so… what the hell?  who’s accountable?

  • BarksfromthePound

    They said Mangini was let go a year too late, I said he was let go a year too early. So much also, to Jerome Harrison saving his job…what’s he done since? This was the year for Mangini, I mean it was Holmgren, who gave him Dehomme as his QB, and expected him to win. Didn’t Grossi say how great Delhomme looked in preseason last year, the anti-Anderson, and how Holmgren upgraded the position, didn’t he also think Quinn could play? Then the games mattered…

    • Anonymous

      BftP, I think your point about Harrison plays into a point I’ve been making frequently about personnel.

      The PD banged on Mangini’s personnel moves (or at least the moves ‘perceived’ as emanating from Mangini) yet none of the players Mangini has released or traded have gone on to significant success.  The Mangini bashers in the media love to harp on the ‘non-draft’ of Sanchez and the trading of Edwards and Winslow.   The truth of the matter is that Sanchez in Cleveland would have been a disaster with a lack of talent around him (and he’s not proven to me that he’s a championship QB in NY either). Mangini traded down, saving the Browns many millions in cap room.  Alex Mack will be a better center in the NFL than Sanchez will be a QB.  Braylon was never coming back to Cleveland after the season anyway and Winslow was a locker-room thug who’s not nearly as good as he thinks that he is.

      When Jerome Harrison was traded to Philadelphia no one pointed out how he –oops– had a hammy or some other injury on the weeks where we were playing punishing defenses.   No one pointed out that he refused to properly communicate with his coach.   If you don’t know the expectations that your coach has nine weeks into the season then that’s on you.

      Jake Delhomme was a long-shot with no arm left.   Seneca Wallace was Holmgren’s “spy in the locker room”. 

      I don’t think that Mangini’s eye for talent is as negative as people say.   Yes, his first draft left a lot to be desired but he certainly cleared out the trash and knew who could play.

    • Anonymous

      BftP, I think your point about Harrison plays into a point I’ve been making frequently about personnel.

      The PD banged on Mangini’s personnel moves (or at least the moves ‘perceived’ as emanating from Mangini) yet none of the players Mangini has released or traded have gone on to significant success.  The Mangini bashers in the media love to harp on the ‘non-draft’ of Sanchez and the trading of Edwards and Winslow.   The truth of the matter is that Sanchez in Cleveland would have been a disaster with a lack of talent around him (and he’s not proven to me that he’s a championship QB in NY either). Mangini traded down, saving the Browns many millions in cap room.  Alex Mack will be a better center in the NFL than Sanchez will be a QB.  Braylon was never coming back to Cleveland after the season anyway and Winslow was a locker-room thug who’s not nearly as good as he thinks that he is.

      When Jerome Harrison was traded to Philadelphia no one pointed out how he –oops– had a hammy or some other injury on the weeks where we were playing punishing defenses.   No one pointed out that he refused to properly communicate with his coach.   If you don’t know the expectations that your coach has nine weeks into the season then that’s on you.

      Jake Delhomme was a long-shot with no arm left.   Seneca Wallace was Holmgren’s “spy in the locker room”. 

      I don’t think that Mangini’s eye for talent is as negative as people say.   Yes, his first draft left a lot to be desired but he certainly cleared out the trash and knew who could play.

    • Brian Sipe

      yes, Grossi had nothing but love for Delhomme when he was strapped to mangini’s back… what a joke that was….

    • Brian Sipe

      yes, Grossi had nothing but love for Delhomme when he was strapped to mangini’s back… what a joke that was….

  • Ess Eh

    ouch. beat down indeed.

  • Dmaxwell

    Shurmur should have been fired on the spot! How can you have 11 players who have been playing football since they were 5 years old, 20 coaches who have been around the game even longer, and NOBODY can call a timeout!!! This franchise is pathetic!!

  • Wahoovegas

    Mangini should have been fired right after the Lions game in 2009. He had to make 4 crucial mistakes at the end of that game for Detroit to have any chance to win, and he made all 4 of them, culminating in the time-out he called so Stafford could come back in for the final play.  I was at that game, and it was the worst coaching I’ve ever seen anywhere, in any sport. I don’t live in Cleveland so I don’t read Grossi and thus can’t comment on your criticisms of him, but there is no way Mangini should have even been around last year, much less this year.

    • Anonymous

      “I don’t live in Cleveland so I don’t read Grossi and thus can’t comment on your criticisms of him.”

      I’m sorry you had a bad trip to Detroit (are there other kinds?) but it’s hard to take seriously the criticism of a guy who can’t find cleveland.com on the internet. Here is a really good read about that Lions game, though. http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2009/11/brownslions-post-mortem-on-fate-and-fear-in-brownstown/

    • Brian Sipe

      How about when he beat Pittsburgh, New England and New Orleans with a crap team?!

      This team will not have 1 win aganst a winning team all year!

  • automaticotto

    i feel like michael corleone in god father II, ” just when i think i’m out, they drag me back in”,
    totally bought into the mccoy, shurman new offense bullshit!!  maybe they prove me wrong in indy, but i bow down to frownie’s grossi masterpiece, and yes, mangini would have destroyed them!!!

  • Tom Wynne

    Browns(the Cleveland Clowns) rebuilding since Marty Shottenheimer(LOL)…I AM a Brown’s fan here in Myrtle Beach and I don’t go to Comedy Clubs…as I get all the laughter I need watching MY Browns EVERY Sunday. How will they blow it this week? The never ending mystery…(LOL)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rick-LaRue/100000651138664 Rick LaRue

    Give it up, you lost. You bought into the hype that somehow you were some up and coming team and that Cincinnati was the worst team in football. You got what that team deserved. a loss. The Browns are not a good team nor will they be a good team. The fans will be crying for a new coach in 2 seasons and management will oblige and you will go into your semi-annual rebuild process of which your team is always in. Mangini was the best thing that could have happened to your team and you fired him. Take away Sanchez and the Jets team was built by Mangini, not Rex Ryan. Ryan walked into a sweet job and Managini left behind a lot of pieces to what could have been a good team.

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    So glad I am not the only one that thinks this way.  The way the Plain Dealer sports writers write their column, they might as well cheer for the other team. These writers have never played football a day in their life even coached a peewee league, and yet their football experts. I do have to give Mary Kay Cabot some credit, even though the Browns lost, she at least tries to find some good in the game.

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