Mutton Chopped: 1-Win Rams Bump Browns in Cleveland

by Cleveland Frowns on November 14, 2011

“I just leave with a helpless feeling. It’s tough. You just kind of scratch your head and wonder where all of this bad luck is coming from and why.” Colt McCoy

“I thought this stuff only happened to the Rams. I didn’t think it happened to other teams.” Steven Jackson

“We tried to hand him the football and he dropped it. That’s the thinking [behind the fourth-quarter decision to handoff to tight end Alex Smith, who ‘couldn’t remember ever taking a direct exchange from the quarterback, ever, at any level’ (including in practice)]. … There was a lot of good, there was a lot of bad. I promised everybody that I would be genuine from Day 1 ’til the last day and I’m genuine right now in saying that. We can focus on what we want to focus on, but we lost the game. That’s genuine.” Pat Shurmur

“Clearly, Shurmur took advantage of the fact he knew this Rams team well having been St. Louis’ offensive coordinator the past two seasons.”Vic Carucci

—————

Browns head coach Pat Shurmur pulled out all the stops for this one. Having spent the last two years as the Rams offensive coordinator, and eight seasons before that on the same Philadelphia coaching staff with Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo, Shurmur really should have had some good ideas about what to throw at the St. Louis defense yesterday.

It should have been even easier once a Rams secondary that had already sent an incredible eight defensive backs to the IR lost two more yesterday when starting cornerback Al Harris and safety Darian Lewis went down. And against a unit that was getting little help from an offense that’s only scored more than 13 points twice this season, that turned the ball over twice in Browns territory, and was playing with two backup tackles by the first series of the third quarter. (‘Street free agent‘ Mark LeVoir filled in when top 2010 second-round-pick Rodger Saffold (out of Bedford High) went out with a head injury, and undrafted Adam Goldberg was making his fourth start in place of banged-up ’09 first rounder Jason Smith). And right on cue, here’s Vic Carucci coming through our radio to tell us how great the Browns defensive line looked yesterday.

Anyway, no backflips here for a group that wasted its tricks on a 13-12 home loss to the St. Louis freshman team. 

It’s actually easy enough to understand why the Browns would want to kill clock and play for the short field goal on the last drive. St. Ignatius managed a 32-yard kick to get a big win on Friday night so you sort of expect the NFL team to make the 22-yarder go. As much as conceding any Plan B by taking the timeout right before the kick was completely indefensible (there shouldn’t have been any difference between a 27-yard kick and a 22-yarder there), the better questions relate to why this game had to come down to a last minute field goal attempt in the first place

Wikipedia: Educational AND fun.

Chris Ogbonnaya gained 109 yards on 21 touches yesterday, so maybe he really isn’t the problem. And we might at least start to understand why Colt McCoy wouldn’t call an audible out of a play where the opponent’s formation doesn’t present an obvious mismatch. But with Shurmur having “turned crimson, pound[ing] the podium,” and “testy“/”angry” yesterday when reporters pressed him on certain relatively unimportant details (Marla Ridenour reported that Shurmur “snapped at a smiling Browns’ employee in the post-game locker room” as well), we’re left to assume that there are no good answers to the bigger questions. With an improved roster in 2011, this franchise has regressed in every other way, and is on an unstoppable bullet train to 3-13. Worse, it’s hard not to think it isn’t exactly what we should expect under the leadership of a guy who kept Eric Mangini around to twist in the wind for a year (along with the Browns roster and fans), then told us with a straight face that the head coach was fired because he “didn’t win enough,” despite the obvious progress the football team was making on the coach’s watch. Wonder when we’ll be hearing from Holmgren next, anyway.

In the meantime, we can at least be glad that the Browns will likely have the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker in the draft over any other team that finishes this season 3-13 (the team with the weaker schedule gets the higher draft pick). The 2-8 Vikings should be able to get one more against the Redskins or Broncos; The 2-7 Panthers have the Colts left on their slate; And the Rams still have two against the Seahawks and one at home vs. the Cardinals. Really, the biggest obstacle between the Browns and the second-overall pick is the Dolphins, who would have to get one from Bills, @Cowboys, Raiders, Eagles, @Bills, @Patriots or Jets. But they’re on a two-game win streak now, so, who knows? Anyway, the Browns look like a lock to be picking no lower than third overall in April.

*!!!???!!?!????!!!?????

—————

In honour of having something to root for in an NFL football game that doesn’t involve a wager, we’ll double our fun with the Vikings +13 over the Packers (5 units) tonight.

After yesterday, we’re 23-13-2 (+48 units) with the NFL picks against the spread here so far in 2011 (1 unit = one percent of the season’s bankroll).

Also, the Browns are currently favored by a point at home against the Jaguars next week.

ALRIGHT, we’ll be back tomorrow with our review of Scott Raab’s book, “The Whore of Akron” (and will be at The Happy Dog to hear Raab talk about the book tonight). Hope everyone’s week gets better soon.

  • Anonymous

    tears (laughter) from that video.  

    just think, if the Browns were a normal, reasonable team, we might not have seen that video and I would not be as happy right now.  

    • Anonymous

      The thing about that video is that it’s a perfect 30-second summary of yesterday’s game.

      • Anonymous

        it took me about 20 seconds to verify, ‘yes, those are children’  – then the tears of laughter flowed.  unbelievable.  

  • Anonymous

    will just add one complaint about Shurmur: his reaction after the blocked FG pissed me off.  he just sat there all dumb/blank looking.  

    hey asshole, there is still 2 minutes we had a timeout, the 2 minute warning, the best FG kicker in the NFL, and the Rams are pinned deep in their territory.  Winning the game is still entirely reasonable at this point (at least for normal teams).  So how about do your fucking job and do something instead of staring blankly for a minute.  loser.  

    • Anonymous

      Jauron has carte blanche on the defense, who unfortunately wasn’t able to get a stop unfortunately..   but yeah Shurmur, not sure why you didn’t go for a TD there at the end, especially with how banged up the STL defense who was obviously on their heels as we easily marched down the field..  

      Cribbs’ fumble and Mack’s deflection is once again can the handiwork of the Madden/Wahoo Curse combining forces..   

      • Anonymous

        none of what you said is very relevant to my comment.  

        everyone knows that part of a coaches function is to be a motivator.  but with the game in the balance and being just one 3 and out away from taking back the ball in long FG range, that loser just stood their like the game was over.  and since I am unaware of him having studied Zen, I dont’ think he was doing a Phil Jackson thing.  he just gave up, or worse, he did not did not even understand the game was still winnable.

        • Anonymous

          The problem is apparent even before that, when he blows timeout #2 for absolutely and utterly no reason than the needless and moronic assumption that the game is over when you’re down by 2 but get to try a field goal with 2:09 and at least 3 clock stops left. Yeah, we never have personnel or readiness problems on defense. Might as well just burn it.

          Odds the Browns win had they hit the fieldgoal were MAYBE in the 60-70% range.

          • Anonymous

            Shurmur is a dummy. All the explanation you need. 

        • Anonymous

          not going for a TD was a worse offense in my opinion, especially since he has been on record saying his focus is on TDs, not FGs..  but again, he has nothing to do with the defense, i’m not sure how much of a difference he would’ve made if he was jumping up and down in the defense’s face like he was on some of the previous drives.   

          • Anonymous

            i am not sure what difference it would have made either.  

            but i am sure that it did not help.  and i even more sure that i have never seen a reaction like that during a winnable game.  so maybe it wasnt that big of a deal, but certainly symbolic of his ineptness and seeming cluelessness.  

          • Anonymous

            it’s the same look i had, complete and utter shock.   if only he could go out there and tackle.. 

          • Anonymous

            are you the Browns next coach? seems like you might have the knack for it.

          • Anonymous

            yessir, Bob Lamonte is my agent

          • Anonymous

            Hired!

  • Anonymous

    will just add one complaint about Shurmur: his reaction after the blocked FG pissed me off.  he just sat there all dumb/blank looking.  

    hey asshole, there is still 2 minutes we had a timeout, the 2 minute warning, the best FG kicker in the NFL, and the Rams are pinned deep in their territory.  Winning the game is still entirely reasonable at this point (at least for normal teams).  So how about do your fucking job and do something instead of staring blankly for a minute.  loser.  

  • Anonymous

    will just add one complaint about Shurmur: his reaction after the blocked FG pissed me off.  he just sat there all dumb/blank looking.  

    hey asshole, there is still 2 minutes we had a timeout, the 2 minute warning, the best FG kicker in the NFL, and the Rams are pinned deep in their territory.  Winning the game is still entirely reasonable at this point (at least for normal teams).  So how about do your fucking job and do something instead of staring blankly for a minute.  loser.  

  • Jaceczko

    Just think. If we keep having good drafts (as we have been having), one day soon we can aspire to having  a dysfunctional, underachieving playoff contender, like the Cowboys (or any number of media-darling east coast teams).

  • Ess Eh

    How far up Holmgren’s and Shurmur’s butt is Jim Mora’s head?

    • Anonymous

      Did Mora call the game yesterday? I was there live and forgot to set my DVR. I haven’t heard a thing about the announcing.

      • Anonymous

         Took several chances to specifically say things like “even though this looks like shit, I assure you Pat Shurmur knows what he is doing and boy the Browns were lucky to get him.”

      • http://twitter.com/musicman06 Chris Music

        He kept repeating how McCoy and Bradford were both young and up and coming quarterbacks with bright futures.

      • Ess Eh

        The parts about Shurmur being one of the best play callers and designers of offense in the league were my favorite. 

        He sounded like he was lobbying for a job with the Browns or something.

      • jpftribe

        Mora is a paid NFL TV announcer. None of them are going to say the coach sucks and should be fired. He ripped Shurmur for handing the ball off to Smith, and questioned whether Shumur even knew he was in the formation. He really ripped into him after the third handoff and criticized him directly.

        Having sat through that entire pathetic game, I thought Mora did about as good a job as anyone could trying to make it entertaining and meaningful, both of which were conspicuous by their absence.

      • http://twitter.com/ItsNotPat It’sNotPatShurmur

        Jim Mora Jr is a genius.  He will continue to shower me and the organization with praise if he wants an advisor to the President cash grab err I mean job.

      • Bandit

        What were you thing. Its bad enough to see this shit in person, but to DVR it for future punishment? You are either mad or doing penance for something evil.

        • Anonymous

          DVR is simply to dissect the lies, propaganda, and ineptitude of our organization, and it also fosters creativity in which we brainstorm truthful responses to our media coverage’s most engaging questions and perspectives.

          • Bandit

            Thanks. I needed that.

    • Anonymous

      About as far as Tony Grossi’s?

    • Brian Sipe

      there seems to be an endless stream of ex coaches and players that Holmgren can get praise from weekly.  Vic Carucci is a laughing stock that KNR is in bed with in order to get more access from the team.  Holmgren could get drunk, take all his clothes off and drove on the field with his Harley at halftime and Carucci, Andre Knott and all the other shills would explain to us how in the long run it will make this team better.

      • Anonymous

        well, it WOULD make the game more entertaining. 

  • http://twitter.com/clevezirm Jordan Zirm

    It just deeply disturbs me that Shurmur was legitimately scared to even attempt throwing one pass into the endzone against a 1-7 team missing all of their cornerbacks. Or not allowing Colt McCoy to audible out of a run when the entire St. Louis defense (and Jim Mora) knew which side the Browns were going to run it to. I can’t live with “playing for a field goal.” Both Bud Shaw and Grossi called it the “safe choice” this morning. If by safe you mean botching the snap and kicking it wide left, then yeah, it was the safe choice. This is what happens when you play not to lose, instead of being aggressive and putting a god-awful team like the Rams away by just tossing one up to Greg Little. It’s just unreal. It’s like the Browns exist on some other planet, and have been residing their for over a decade now.

    Also, Frowns, I’ll see you at the Happy Dog tonight, where I will most likely still be sad from yesterday’s atrocity.

  • eldaveablo

    Even my superhero-grade patience is wearing thin with this offensive “scheme” and “coach”. With all those trips to the redzone, I’m trying to remember how many throws into the end zone their were. I can only remember one (Evan Moore/face mask play). Am I forgetting any others? I probably am, as my brain slowly starts forgetting yesterday happened as a defense mechanism. 

    I also seem to remember some pretty good play from key guys – specifically Colt and Phil Taylor. Did that happen?

    Do I also remember reading that McCoy did not have the option of making an audible to prevent Alex Smith from taking his first ever handoff in a key play? 

    What the hell is going on here? 

    • Anonymous

      What’s going on here, pretty clearly now, is that Holmgren fucked up the hire big time, to the point that I’m now open to the “same agent” conspiracies that fly here. I’m still sufficiently convinced of Walrus’s general competence and integrity that I hope for it to get fixed one of several ways. But it is what it is.

      • Anonymous

        this will be the measure of holmgren’s competence and integrity.

        i don’t see how he can avoid putting on the headphones.  his man is failing.  

        • eldaveablo

          This is where I start to drive myself nuts. What is the right management decision right now (not when the hiring was done)? Is it to be reactionary? Is it to be a steady, patient hand? Is it to bring him into the office and chew him out and set him straight? Would a full year of experience, an OC, and some input from Holms do enough to get the Browns on the right track?

          Conventional wisdom is that you need to stick with a coach, and not be too quick to cut bait, but this is just not good right now, and is only getting worse. 

          I know these are apples and oranges, but I had  serious doubts about Mangini at this point in his first year – and he had experience and an OC. He finished the year strong and won me over. 

          Does Shurmur deserve the same chance? I honestly don’t know. I just really hope he’s getting his ass chewed by the Walrus and he gets his act together. 

          • Anonymous

            >>>What is the right management decision right now>>>

            it would not be a good mgt move for holmgren to be on the sideline, even tho it would be good football-wise.  cuts the knees out from under his guy.

            but if holmgren hasn’t in the film room and helping prep a game plan with him, he needs to start now.

            part of that ‘on same page’ jive is that everyone likes/respects each other and enjoy hanging out.  so hows about holmgren and shurmur hang out together in the film room this week.

          • Anonymous

            I’m in the same place. We need continuity, but Shurmur looks like Goofus out there. I didn’t like Mangini the first season either though – Frowns will beat the “we have better players now” drum (which is true), but you do have to take injuries into account, to be fair.

            But Mangini never looked dumb as this. And he was smart enough to hire offensive and defensive coordinators. I get uncomfortable Crennel flashbacks this season. Shurmur’s in over his head. 

          • Anonymous

            From my own management experience, it does no good to chew out stupid, and rarely works on lazy. (I leave it to others to determine whether I chewed or was chewed.) Stupid and lazy can be fixed organizationally though, especially when you’ve got a yes-man, by structuring how decisions run up the chain. Just get this guy an OC and like 4 game-time quantitative assistants and let him rubber stamp his way to glory, with Walrus showing the flag in the facility just to remind everyone that there is real authority behind this stuffed shirt.

            Captain Pat has showed me enough to have me thinking that he is likely to be one of the 5 or 6 NFL coaches that actually make a significant difference. Obviously not in a good way.

    • Anonymous

      There is a direct quote from McCoy where he says that he was not allowed to audible during that weirdo TE handoff situation. 

      I find the decision not to pass boggling. It’s not like Colt throws a lot of picks, and don’t we have faith in our wide receivers???

  • Jim

    I assume that handing the ball off to your third string tight end when he has never actually taken a hand-off in a seven year NFL career is not the sort of imaginative play-calling most Browns fans had in mind.  That play doesn’t even appear in the Madden playbooks.  Even more mind boggling, Alex Smith basically said after the game that the Browns forgot he was in the game for Marecic for who the play was designed for. 

    How does the Coach/OC not realize this?  How does the running backs coach not see his starting full back sitting on the bench?  How does McCoy not audible out of the play?
       

    • Anonymous

      McCoy isn’t allowed to audible there. More critical errors concealing systemic incompetence.

      • Jim

        Right. McCoy insinuated as much after the game when he indicated he just runs the plays as called. 

        As far as the Shurmonator’s dual roles; that play was prima facie evidence that he cannot do both at this stage in his career.  With an actual offensive coordinator, someone who is not only calling plays but monitoring player personnel, one would think such a ridiculous thing would not happen at such an important time in the game. 

      • Anonymous

        Not allowed to audible?  How does that even work?  Our HS team’s QB had permission to audible any play if he deemed the defense was stacked up against the play called.  At what point do you think McCoy goes, “F*&K this,” and start calling his own plays at the line?  I have no concept of “Not allowed to audible this play ever,” especially in the pros. 

        • Anonymous

          I think it’s telling that last week’s Cribbs touchdown was basically called for in the huddle by Cribbs – NOT by Pat Shurmur. 

          It’s obvious that there’s been something up with the playcalling, and Shurmur is hamstringing his sorta rookie QB by not letting him call plays at the line. Which is ridiculous, since Colt does have a football IQ. I recall he was alright in college. 

        • Anonymous

           How does that even work? It doesn’t. Clearly. But apparently Captain Pat is trying to make it work.

  • Anonymous

    i didnt like the conservative play for FG biz.  but i wont kill shurmur for that.  it would have got the lead and the defense was ‘ok.’  imo, it was stupid play-calling but defensible to some extent. ‘tressel-ly,’ if you will.

    what i cant abide is a douche-bag head coach with his nose in the effing play card instead of with his eyes on the effing field.

    HEY JACKASS:  YOUR FULLBACK IS ON THE SIDELINE!!  YOU JUST CALLED A PLUNGE TO A TIGHT END!!  PAY-ATTENTION-TO-THE-FIELD!!

    this shurmur as OC and HC thing is the most assine personnel move in the history of the browns.

    btw, did anyone else catch a whiff of bud carson in that presser?

    • Anonymous

      >>>what i cant abide is a douche-bag head coach with his nose in the effing play card instead of with his eyes on the effing field.

      HEY JACKASS:  YOUR FULLBACK IS ON THE SIDELINE!!  YOU JUST CALLED A PLUNGE TO A TIGHT END!!  PAY-ATTENTION-TO-THE-FIELD!!>>>I just jumped up and cheered. Harder than I’ve cheered for anything on the field this year.

  • Anonymous

    >>>The better questions relate to why this game had to come down to a last minute field goal attempt in the first place. >>>

    That’s really and literally not the question, since there was 2:09 still on the clock AFTER all the attempts to burn clock. Critical errors are actually obscuring systemic ineptitude.

    • Anonymous

      Fair enough. So we’ve got lots of questions. Still no good answers.

      • Anonymous

        NO GOOD ANSWERS AT ALL. 

        Hey Plain Dealer reporters, here are some questions you can ask at the next presser, and you don’t even have to pay me a cent. Everyone else in Cleveland’s been asking them for the past few weeks…

        “Is Colt McCoy allowed to audible?”
        “If every pass rusher has a “hat” assigned, why are the blocks not getting made?”
        “Are you overwhelmed? Do you feel that you need an offensive coordinator?”
        “Are you still thinking touchdowns over field goals? Then, uhh… what happened?”

        • Anonymous

          “Considering retired coaches are able to pick your offensive play 95% of the time after being given personal, formation, and motion; what do plan on doing about that?”

          “Handing off to a tight end?  Really?”
          “Follow-up question:  Really?”

          “What about St. Louis’ 8th and 9th string DBs intimidated you the most?”

          “Did you learn to script your plays from “Coach Mode” on Techmo Superbowl? 

          • Anonymous

            omg Tecmo flashbacks!!!!

            fell in love with the original (all because of Dixon and Minnifield!!!)
            the Next of course left a lot to be desired if you played with the browns, but boy could I get a sack 95% of the time with THE Bob Nelson (on GB)

            still have the games somewhere in the closet.

            omg tangent!

          • Anonymous

            I loved being the Giants in the original. Lawrence Taylor could block every FG and PAT.

          • Anonymous

            in the original i was SF. for super i was whoever me n my bud chose for each other, but i particularly enjoyed many teams.

            the game on super nes was great because you could unlock all time greats and also create players, might be time to dust off the old system.

          • Anonymous

            For another flashback, click on my avatar.  I also like to sport a genuine QB Browns jersey on game days.

          • Ess Eh

            like a million.  QB Browns, I’ll have to make one of those

          • Anonymous

            Make sure to have #00 QB Browns.  I made the mistake of having #19, but my brother and his roommate managed to get themselves the #00.  As a bonus, “QB Browns” will be more relevant for a longer period of time than Couch, Holcomb, Detmer, Gracia, Beeman, Quinn, Anderson…etc.

          • eldaveablo

            Bo Jackson in Super Tecmo was completely unstoppable. It was always a goal to rush for 1000 yards in one game. 

          • Anonymous

            Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen on the Raiders offensive.  Bill Pickel or Howie Long on D.

          • Anonymous

            I’m partial to the Oilers. Moon to Drew Hill and Haywood Jeffries, and Ray Childress is a monster at OLB.

          • Anonymous

            aye, and they had that near unstoppable play…. i think it was a 3 yard slant.. LOL

          • eldaveablo

            If we’re talking Super Tecmo, I was an Eagles guy. “Eagles QB 12″ aka Randall Cunningham was like a running back with a rocket arm, even if they had no other speed on offense. Their defense was unstoppable with Reggie White, Jerome Brown, and Clyde Simmons. 

          • cranky m

            I always liked the Chiefs so i could steamroll people with Christian Okoye, but the Raiders, Eagles, and 49ers were the best by far. Those three teams were illegal when we had tournaments/playoffs back in the day. Bo Jackson and Cunningham were just unfair, and Rathman and Rice were ridiculous for the 49ers.
            Giants were borderline-illegal, because Dave Meggett was grease lightning on that game.

      • Anonymous

        Wouldn’t it be great if there were some sort of job or profession whose duty it was to ask these sorts of questions directly to the coaches, players, and management?  Then they could write down the answers and report them to us via some type of medium like on a piece of paper, through the ether via radio/TV/Internet.  Once the answers are published, the fans or “subscribers” could read the answers to find out what happened during that clusterf*&k of a game.  I think I might be on to something here.  Does anyone else want in?  This could be big here in Cleveland.

        • jpftribe

          fuckin eh… that’s a beautiful comment.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    Frowns, just a heads up here – The fact that the Dolphins and Browns played will have no effect on the draft order if they both end up 3-13.  The tiebreaker ( the way I understand it to be) is:

    1) Strength of schedule
    2) Division tiebreaker (irrelevant here, since they are in different divisions)
    3) Conference tiebreaker (relevant)
    4) If they are still tied, then a coin flip happens at the combine.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d6b708/article/complete-order-of-first-round-of-2011-nfl-draft-determined

    Anyhow, I remember the Browns having a coin flip with Tampa Bay at the combine in 2007, and the Browns won, giving us Joe Thomas. In 2006 the Browns lost to Tampa and I remember explicitly thinking that the Browns will get screwed and would probably find a way to lose the coin flip.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/23/sportsline/main2507916.shtml

    • Anonymous

      Thanks. Fixed.

    • pepe

      I think head-to-head is the tiebreaker if there are only two teams tied with the same record. If there are three or more, then the tiebreaker is as you’ve outlined above.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t see anything that says that. I think Chris is right. I thought I remembered that the Chiefs got to pick higher than the Browns in ’09 because the Browns beat them that season, which is technically true, but the Chiefs finished 4-12 that season while the Browns were 5-11.

  • Anonymous

    shurmur’s wiki must be hacked.  because it says he’s never been a head coach before.  in fact, he’s never held A MANAGEMENT POSITION before.  anywhere.

    the best managers put their people in the best positions to succeed.  they delegate responsibility.  theyre realistic about the limits of their own capabilities and cognizant of the fact that their people have to know their roles and be allowed to execute them.

    juxtapose this with a Head Coach who is also Offensive Coordinator who doesnt let his QB audible out of a FB plunge with the wrong personnel.

    i submit shurmur is not only an incompetent OC.  he is also -and more importantly- an inexperienced and (thus far) ineffective manager of people.

    • eldaveablo

      Like x 100.  Shurmur is really starting to reveal himself as a Head Coach/OC who is in WAY over his head. Instead of delegating responsibility and seeking out help he is micromanaging and assigning blame like a control freak. TERRIBLE management in any profession. 

      I really don’t like to question a coaches chops this early into his career, but if something doesn’t change, we have no hope. 

      • Anonymous

        (there’s no need to point out the irony that mangini was ding’d -by me anyway- for being a control freak.  is there?)

        • Anonymous

          No any need to point out that the quantitative flaws I groused about with Mangini are twice as bad with this mouth-breather. And then you throw in the newfound defensiveness and laziness…

          We really look like we won the lottery here.

          • Anonymous

            glad to see the mangini blinders are starting to become less opaque.

          • Anonymous

            A pile of dog crap wearing an Anderson Verejao wig would look good compared to the trainwreck this guy has presented so far. This just isn’t credible.

            And no, I did not just call Mangini a pile of dog crap wearing a Verejao wig. I liked Mangini as a coach, just not as much as some. I felt that on the whole and considering organizational unity of purpose, the Browns could have done better.

            They clearly didn’t. Now (to put it in Akronese) it needs fixed.

          • Anonymous

            understood. and in no way am I really trying to get people to say Mangini is the best ever or anything, Just trying to have people consider the fact that under Mangini the team was improving and given the result of his firing and the consensus on rebuilding, that at least 2 years more should have been given.

            of course I would be a hypocrite if I didnt apply this logic to Shurmur as well, so yes he deserves the rest of this year, possibly the next, and if we do apply the ‘rebuild logic’, even one after that… but do we REALLY want to see any more incompetence?

            omg i cant belive i just said that…

  • Anonymous

    Unfortunately, if the Browns pick 3rd overall, once we get a good look at what’s coming out, we will really only be truly interested in two of them… Andrew Luck and someone else.  The guy the Browns (and most fans want) just about always goes right before their slot.  The fact the Browns will pick so high probably points toward a really weak draft.  Hate to be so cynical… I was born a Browns fan.

    • Anonymous

      After the past few weeks, it seems Matt Barkley might be better than Luck. 

      • Anonymous

        Disagree, but happy to hope for some market correction as the Luck-fest was getting way out of hand. He’s still the best prospect in the draft hands down and I would trade our two #1’s for him.

      • Anonymous

        Insane. Luck’s receivers were terrible on Saturday night against the Ducks. He kept putting it right on their hands.

      • Anonymous

        brandon weeden in round 2?  

        if he werent 28 wouldnt he be a top 10 prospect?

        • Anonymous

           If worms had guns birds wouldn’t eat them.

    • pepe

      I think this draft class is pretty great, especially at the top. You have the best QB (Luck), WR (Blackmon), and maybe OT (Kahlil) prospects to come out in years. The Browns will probably not draft any of them though. You have to assume they’ll draft the best QB available.

      • Ess Eh

        I wonder if Grossi’s head would explode, if the Browns trade again…

      • Believelander

        I would love a Kahlil to replace Tony Pashos. If Steinbach came back healthy, our line could be smashing for 4-5 more years.

        • Anonymous

          They’ll be extremely lucky to get even 2 more good years out of steinbach.

    • Anonymous

      It’s really a very deep draft, especially QB. I’m betting we’re going to see Atlanta’s #1 go for best available QB at that point.

      By the way, if anyone needs a boost, #teamfuckthefalcons won a big one yesterday.

  • http://twitter.com/musicman06 Chris Music

    Browns -1 on Sunday?? Frowns, is this 100 units on Jacksonville bet this week?

    • Anonymous

      I mean, there’s no such thing as a sure thing, but …

      • Anonymous

        ‘under 36.5′ might be even a bigger lock.

        can either team score 19 points let alone both of them?

    • Anonymous

      i think you have to roll the billion dollar profit from last week into this week.

  • Anonymous

    The Browns are so bad, I hate watching  even when they WIN. 

  • Anonymous

    The Browns are so bad, I hate watching  even when they WIN. 

  • Anonymous

    How about Shumur getting pissy in a presser again. Me thinks the man has some thin skin also. Bad move for an NFL HC to be snapping at the press corps that covers him regardless of their ineptitude. Unless of course you’re name is Bill Parcells..on that… “Mr Shumur I’ve seen Bill Parcells, you sir are no Bill Parcells”

    • Anonymous

      A wise man once told me, “you can be rude, OR you can be stupid, but you’re really not allowed to be both.”

      Not that I think Shurmur is stupid as much as I think he’s in over his head here, but the principle definitely applies.

    • Anonymous

      if he showed half that emotion on the field….

      • Anonymous

        I’m praying for the day I see a Browns head coach show emotion on the sideline. Butch Davis was the last one I remember go nuts every once in a while during a game.

    • Believelander

      Did Mangini ever dig into the Cleveland press like Shurmur did yesterday? I saw a lot of pressers and never saw Coach get as obviously furious as Shurminator…

      • Anonymous

        You mean did Mangini ever throw a tantrum at a press conference? I don’t remember it ever happening.

        • Believelander

          Clearly, we are making progress. The P ain Dealer says so.

  • Anonymous

    The only way this Shurmur press conference can end is with Holmgren bashing him in the skull and taking over today.

    Anything else is an excuse.

    • Anonymous

      He said that he knew Alex Smith was in the game and decided not to change the play anyway.

      You can clean out your desk now…

      • Anonymous

        Yeah I have to think that’s a lie. But neither answer is really better than the other. This one just weights “stupid” a little ahead of “lazy” and “overwhelmed.”

        • Ess Eh

          agreed.  I think it is funny that nobody wanted John Fox as head coach last year, b/c we needed an offensive mind.  But now look, John Fox is playing to his players strengths and has 3 wins with Tim Tebow as QB.  I mean really, Tebow goes 2-8 for 69 yards and wins?  A coach finding ways to win instead of costing his team wins? That’s cooky talk.

          We definitely got the offensive mind.  The offensive offensive mind.

          • Anonymous

            WHOA!!! WHOA~~~!!!  whoa there.  Me! Me! Me!Me!Me! 

            i wanted fox a million percent.  big fan, have been for a long time.

            /fixed

          • Anonymous

            Yeah, I think it’s the one name I was on as well. No one wanted Fox? I actually partly wanted to can Mangini just BECAUSE Fox was available.

            Wrong agent though I guess.

          • Ess Eh

            Wow, I must have been hanging out in the wrong circles last year.  I only remember hearing Fox’s name mentioned in passing.  Everybody wanted Gruden from what I remember, which I didn’t, b/c I cant’ stand that guy.

          • Anonymous

             Damn, now I see that Fox IS a LaMonte client. That means we could have had him. WTF Walrus?

      • Anonymous

        He HAS to be lying about that. Or else he’s totally insane. Ne ither option is good. 

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        Well, there’s this as well:

        (Just in case Kanicki managed to get himself blocked by this guy as well).

        And he tripped on his dick so badly to cover up his ineptitude. It’s tragically unfortunate.

        “Knowing what I know now, I probably, well maybe, well I think I may have tried to call a time out.”

      • Anonymous

        Where is this presser?

        • Anonymous

          In the conference room.

  • Ess Eh

    Seriously, If I hear one more time how great Colt McCoy played, I think I am going to punch myself in the face.  He threw for 218 yards against the 10th string DBs!  He threw one long pass to Little, whoop dee frickin’ do.   He also threw into double coverage numerous times, including one where Ben Watson bailed him out on a throw high and behind (which would have been picked had it been in the right place, good thing for inaccuracy). 

    Almost all of his completions were 5 yards or less.  Not to mention the guy had very little pressure all day, but still found a way to perceive pressure and run out of the pocket for no reason at all.   Maybe he sucks b/c Shurmur won’t let him audible or won’t let him have more than one read on a play, but either way he played mediocre against a bad team. that’s what he did. enough with how great he played.

    /rant

  • Anonymous

    shurmur’s wiki has been hacked:

    Part of the reason Pat Shurmur was hired is that they wanted him to call the plays on offense as Holmgren did in Green Bay and Seattle. [4] Another reason for the hire was Shurmur’s development of Sam Bradford, 2010’s No. 1 overall draft pick. The Browns are hoping he can have similar success with Colt McCoy.
    Under Shurmur, Bradford lived up to his hype and set rookie league records for completions and attempts. He also led St. Louis to a 7-9 record—the Rams were 1-15 a year earlier—while throwing for 3,512 yards, second-most ever for a rookie behind Peyton Manning’s 3,739 in 1998.

    the factual statement about his cluelessness is now gone.  clearly this is now inaccurate and the sources not trustworthy.

    we all want to help improve wikipedia, do we not?  then as citizens of earth and as we are knowledgable on this subject, we have a RESPONSIBILITY TO THE INTERWEBS to rate the shurmur page and to improve its accuracy.

    [good god, we got peyton hillis on madden.  we can knock this out of the park.]

  • http://twitter.com/ItsNotPat It’sNotPatShurmur

    One thing we can all agree on:  is that I am way more Genuine when I lose than Mangini was.

    • Anonymous

      notCoach, can you answer some of the above questions?  Please?

      • http://twitter.com/ItsNotPat It’sNotPatShurmur

        I would but I have decided to have Owen Marecic take care all of your questions, wait actually I have been now told that Alex Smith ( who once took a public speaking class in 6th grade) will be answering all the questions.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah that was beautiful. He is really really super super genuine (and angry!) in telling the gaggle that they need to shut up about him calling the ball-protect-handoff to the guy who’s never taken a handoff before. Because he didn’t really call it. Or he did but he didn’t know. Or else he did know and called a time out. Just too late. Or else he meant to call a time out except there wasn’t time. And besides there’s more than 1 play in a football game, and that’s why you burn your timeout on 3rd down instead, and well, SHUT UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE YOU’RE NOT MY BOSS AND I DON’T HAVE ONE.

      • Anonymous

        According to Darryl Reuter 92.3 beat guy, no officials were close enough for him to call time.  I imagine Shurmur’s internal dialogue as follows:

         oh, hi Owen..uh oh…somebody should do someth… shucks, I don’t know if they’ll see me, oh, darn, they’re not looking at me, oh goodness gracious, let me just, oh, should I step onto the field, or, um, oh golly….hmm….why are they all diving on the ground like that?

  • Anonymous

    Mercifully, I will be in Green Bay this Sunday, so I won’t be spending 3 hours watching the top of Shurmur’s head.

  • Ronnie James Dio

    “With an improved roster in 2011, this franchise has regressed in every other way, and is on an unstoppable bullet train to 3-13. ”
    Is the roster better? And is that before or after the injuries?

    • Anonymous

      injuries that plagued them last year can wash the injuries that hamper this year, so its a push.

      allowing that consideration we can agree the roster is improved, via cuts, aquisitions, trades, and the draft, all done by a front office whose obvious goal is to improve (lol) right? I mean they wouldnt regress a roster… right?

      • Anonymous

         I don’t think it’s really that simple. We are playing a buttload of rooks and second years. In that sense, the on-the-field roster is not really improved, and I cut Lazy McYesman a little slack for it, and look forward to reaping benefits in the future.

        That said, I think everyone can pretty much agree that you’ve got at least two wins this year that the coaching staff has flushed down the toilet with their bad prep and discipline. And they have displayed innumeracy and stupidity in gameday coaching as well.

        Needs fixed.

      • Anonymous

        Not to mention one of the easiest schedules in the league this year vs. one of the hardest last year. 

    • Anonymous

      Give Mangini D’Qwell, Taylor and Sheard and Little, along with a whole season of a second-year Colt as the QB (instead of the revolving three-headed shitpile from last year), and I really don’t think it’s close.

    • Believelander

      Like last year’s injuries to all 3 qbs, Robaire Smith, Scott Fujita, Eric Wright, Shaun Rogers, Tony Pashos, Montario Hardesty, etc, etc, etc….

  • kjn

    Did Grossi just use voodoo as an excuse for the loss? Way to hold the current regime accountable. What a hack.

  • Believelander

    Things are so bad around here, I’m not certain I don’t want to just have a good cry…

  • Anonymous

    I can answer the question..No..Mangini never lost his cool..What’s this guy going to do when Grossi turns on him?..Pretty odd it hasn’t happened yet..Hmmm..He(Grossi) will have to eventually if it keeps going south and if Shumur is demonstrating a short fuse with the kids gloves the press is treating him with now.. what happens when they start going hard..This could have tremendous entertainment value..as opposed to watching these Browns I mean..yikes

  • Anonymous

    I have been screaming til blue in the face that McCoy has been handcuffed by Shurmur (i.e., no audibling) for WEEKS, haven’t I Frownie?  Now, there’s a direct quote from Colt saying that he wasn’t allowed to audible out of the “let’s hand the ball off to the guy WHO’S NEVER TAKEN A HANDOFF AT ANY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL EVER” play.

    At the end of this season, Holmgren will be looking for another scapegoat; or perhaps he won’t because he’s too busy collecting Lerner’s money (thanks DawgPound Mike).  They will choose to sacrifice Colt McCoy and when they do so we should, as fans, ask that it be transparent.  They will try to shovel it high and deep that McCoy doesn’t have the skills and while I won’t argue that they are in question, we should DEMAND to know how they could know this without taking the training wheels off.  As I said before, Colt McCoy was limited by Brian Daboll but he at least had the opportunity to check out of a bad play. 

    Not only are we handcuffing the young signal caller but we’re using a playbook that is essentially the pure WCO.  Let me tell you this Mike Holmgren:

    a) Everyone in the league has Bill Walsh’s playbook.  As a matter of fact, most FANS can have it if they go here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2944734/1985-49ers-Offense-Walsh

    b) You won with this playbook with Joe Montana, Steve Young and Brett Favre as your QBs.  You also had Jerry Rice and John Taylor playing WR

    c) you haven’t won anything without one of the above players running that offense

    d) your personnel whiffs as GM of the Seahawks are too numerous to mention but Brock Huard and Josh Booty?  Seneca Wallace was the pinnacle of your QB draftees.   You picked a guy named “Taco”?

    Note to the Browns: Go for the end zone.  You’ll never go wrong trying for sevens.  You’ve become too enamored with the threes.

    Just my .02

    • Anonymous

      colt does not have a cannon.  all he has ever had were football smarts and leadership qualities.  yes, he’s being set up like a bowling pin.

      shurmur today said colt had the audible option.  seems bogus both on that play and in general.  if colt has been empowered to audible… why hasn’t he?

      • Anonymous

        Another case of what shurmur says and what players say being diametrically opposed. Why am I not surprised?

  • clay

    Nothing new to state here that hasn’t been covered by everyone…  I’m fukin disgusted.  Did want to say that I met Frowns, Vince, and Gould yesterday and they are all chill bros.  It was very cool to meet you all.  Hope to meet more of you in the future.  We all have a very sick bond – loving this rediculous excuse of a franchise. 

  • Anonymous Browns Fan

    H*@y  f*$#ing  sh*¡!

  • Brian Sipe

    I love when Shurmur makes excuses after each loss, blaming everyone but himself, then finishes his presser with “bottom line, we are a no excuse team”

    We are TRAPPED with Holmgren and these fools.  If we can him everyone calls us idiots and tears us down.  If we keep at this pace we might be .500 by year 4 or 5

    • Anonymous

      Agreed. I can’t remember when I saw something as classless as blaming Alex Smith for botching the handoff. He’s the backup so he better be ready? When he’s never even had a practice Rep his entire time as a pro. He’s YOUR backup pat, how is it that he got those zero reps?? Whose fault is that, his, for not asking? Wtf is wrong with you? No excuses? You mean none for anyone else I guess.

      It will be interesting to see the effect failure has on this guy. The denial and blameshifting is going to have to end at some point …the later part of the season is bound to be a shitstorm and this umbrella of angry defensiveness isn’t going to hold up.

      • alexb

        dude are you serious? Shurmur really said “he’s our backup he should have been ready?”……..what? A backup that’s never actually taken a ball from a qb in his entire professional career? This is twilight zone bullshit right here. This is a fireable offense.

  • Ben

    I don’t know where else to rant about this, but I thought this would be a good place given your comments above and those in the past.  When I came home from the grocery store this evening, I couldn’t believe my ears at the vomit-inducing, propaganda-spouting (the cynic’s term for “public relations”) praise of Pat Shurmur by Vic Carrucci.  What the hell was WKNR thinking by putting that boot-licking, smooth-talking schmuck on the air to begin with?  Who does that appeal to?  It’s all a microcosm of everything that is wrong with journalism in this country today.  The “journalists” treat those in positions of authority with kid gloves instead of asking real questions, in order to gain “access”.  Access is prized to such an extent that they are willing to give up giving the people what they actually want?  What good is access if you can’t ask real questions, anyway?

    • Anonymous

      cleveland’s sports media is downright orwellian.

      observe
      here is the critical analysis from our PD team on shurmur’s hiring.  breathtaking in its vacuous-ness.  ‘guys, you have to trust the holmgren knows what he’s doing!’

      mind you this is only TWO WEEKS after the shurmur-directed rams generated no TDs, two FGs, TWO FOR FOURTEEN THIRD DOWN RATE in the rams’ biggest game of the year.  

      i mean… it was on national TV and everything.

      the PD’s next critical review of shurmur’s resume and holmgren’s hiring process will be its first.

      • Anonymous

        At least FSOhioZJackson is doing work:

        http://www.foxsportsohio.com/11/15/11/Jacksons-Five-Big-games-for-the-Buckeyes/landing_ohiostate.html?blockID=604836&feedID=3725

        “I’ve never been an NFL coach, but I’ve been around quite a few. And I
        know that one of the first rules of being an NFL coach is to not throw
        your players under the bus, even if those players posted themselves up
        near the bus tires. Nobody thinks Shurmur really dreamed up a play in
        which Alex Smith would run in the winning touchdown, but the fact that
        he didn’t know which players were on the field is more than a little
        alarming. The fact that the Browns are regressing is obvious. There are
        seven games left. Five of them are against the Steelers, Bengals and
        Ravens. Again, no (additional) jokes. Just some sad, sad facts. This
        Browns team is not experiencing growing pains. With 40 points in the
        past four weeks, this Browns team is bottoming out.”

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      Forget about Carucci, he is the senior editor for the ClevelandBrowns.com blog. If you’re looking for “journalism”, you might want to try a guy who isn’t actually employed by the Browns.

      Of course he’s going to toe the company line, he’s collecting a paycheck from them.

    • Anonymous

      This is exactly the place to rant about this. I heard the show last night as well, on my way up to the Happy Dog. It was literally an hourlong Shurmur lovefest, and ode to a home loss to a 1-7 Rams team missing 32 starters. If I had the time I’d find a recording and break down every line. I agree that it’s not so much that the Browns produce this crap, but rather that outlets like WKNR will air it.

  • Anonymous

    That’s not what Colt said.

  • cranky m

    i’m officially in “Suck for Matt Barkley” mode at this point. And “Suck to Get Shurmur Fired” mode, but that’s a given.

  • Alex B

    jesus I was at the game and didn’t realize who that was they tried to hand the ball off to at the end. I thought it was a backup RB. It was a TE? WTF? Now I’m legitimately pissed. I remember thinking what the hell kind of formation is this….and to hand it to a TE who has apparently not once EVER practiced handoff in practice let alone took one in a game, guys that’s a fireable offense. Or am I missing something? Cause from where I’m looking that’s a fireable offense. On the spot.
     
    Is it too late to call Coach Mangini back?

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