Leadership-Vacuum Sweepings Vol. MMMXXIVI: Notes on Mike Holmgren’s 12/15/11 Press Conference

by Cleveland Frowns on December 15, 2011

“Ask Pat. Ask Pat. … You’re either with us or you’re not.” — Mike Holmgren

“He is very, very defensive today. … An instant classic.” – Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer

“[S]marmy, arrogant, patronizing, defensive, annoying, standoffish, defiant. In a word: unhinged. I still like Holmgren — but come on.” – Dennis Manoloff, Cleveland Plain Dealer

“Holmgren did not seem very happy about being pressed into doing his job.” — Marla Ridenour, Akron Beacon Journal

“Well then … ” – Pat McManamon, Fox Sports Ohio

—————

If you want to get right to the transcript of the disaster that unfolded in Berea yesterday, scroll down past the second animated LOLrus below. But it should be noted here first that there were people who actually did raise questions and concerns back in 2009 about Randy Lerner’s decision to hire Mike Holmgren in the first place. These questions related to the wisdom of an historically incompetent owner in reacting to a plainly self-serving and morally bankrupt protest by an illiterate yet incredibly successful publicity whore by handing 50 million dollars and the keys to the kingdom to the biggest available brand name, who amazingly happened to be a guy who’d never had any measurable success in such a role.

While anyone might have raised those questions, and everyone should have, very few people actually did. Tony Grossi, Marla Ridenour, and Pat McManamon were not those people.

To the contrary, Ridenour, McManamon, and especially Grossi were some of the biggest enablers of the move in the press, which met the Browns head coach who Holmgren fired, Eric Mangini, with little but the most treacherous grade school playground politics from the start. Fueled by old-guard arrogance, laziness, a “small-city” inferiority complex, and profoundly warped and outdated views on what kind of information is “owed” to the press by an NFL football coach, and to the citizenry by the press, these folks wanted nothing but to see Mangini gone as soon as he got here, and saw the name brand “proven winner” Holmgren as a panacea. They laid down the palms for Holmgren when he arrived, and took mind-bending liberties with truth and objectivity to avoid batting an eyelash at his canning Mangini for “not winning enough” in 2010.

So here we are. And Grossi’s unrestrained glee at Holmgren’s discomfort yesterday really says it all. “An instant classic!”

If you’re looking for dispositive proof that an institution is broken, Grossi couldn’t be more right. But the fact that a region could be getting exponentially more out of its relationship with a football team has long gone without saying. Which is why Browns fan’s first response to all of this can only be to laugh.

Which is much more a function of the relationship between the franchise and the press than of our assessment of the prospects of the Holmgren regime. But more to the latter subject, a few more things should be noted:

Mainly just that when Mangini was here, we could at least see thing moving in a certain direction. Even at the lowest point of the Mangini era, the 1-11 start in his first season here, it was easy enough to see organizational decisions (and the win-loss record) as a function of a set of stated core values that the coach came in with, and as part of a courageous, long-viewed and necessary teardown of an organizational culture that had long gone to rot, something necessary to reverse a decade of unprecedented failure. This all got much easier to see when the Browns ended Mangini’s first season with a dominant four-game win streak (a modern franchise record) that included the franchise’s only win over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the last nine years; and then even easier in 2010 when Mangini “took a team that didn’t have an abundance of talent but did have an abundance of injuries, as well as the NFL’s toughest schedule, and made it a factor” — “one of the league’s toughest outs.” It was a season that included stunning shutdowns of two of the very best offenses in the NFL, and with the snaps for the Browns taken by a rotating carousel of three quarterbacks who wouldn’t have started for another team in the league.

This was a guy who’d won three Super Bowl rings on Bill Belichick’s staff in New England, the protege of the greatest NFL head coach of this era, “the one Belichick loved the most.”  The same guy who was fired by Holmgren after a season in which the Browns outstripped all reasonable expectations, again, because he  “didn’t win enough.

So now it’s all Fifty-Million-Dollar Mike’s show. And now we’ve got Pat Shurmur on the sideline, a supposed guru of the West Coast Offense, who’s got the team on pace to score some 50 points fewer than last year’s did despite playing in at least four times as much garbage time. Now we’ve got a season in which the Browns have barely managed to compete against anything but the league’s worst. We’ve also got yesterday’s incredible press conference. And Holmgren is upset that we’re upset.

So first the Colt McCoy concussion stuff.

“If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy.”

Was McCoy examined and tested for a concussion?

“No, he was not. … One of the things troubling to me is the [team's medical staff is] getting slammed pretty good, along with the head coach. … Why wasn’t a SCAT test administered at that time? … [The medical staff's] reaction to the way Colt was reacting did not dictate that. They did not see the play. … If you see the hit, you think, ‘Goodness gracious,’ but they did not see the hit. … It seems inconceivable but nobody alerted anyone.”

Yes yes yes inconceivable. Inconceivable that nobody alerted anyone that James Harrison had deanimated the team’s quarterback on the field while the game was going on. Inconceivable that anyone would have had to alert anyone. Inconceivable that with head injuries subject to such unprecedented hot-button scrutiny in today’s NFL, that the Browns would err on the side of “permanent disability risk.” A process failure. And also a perfectly conceivable sign that things are moving way too fast for the rookie head coach who, process failures notwithstanding, still has final responsibility for what happens on the field, including which Browns players go on to it. Which all goes a long way to explain why the organization has been getting “slammed so good” about all this.

Holmgren refuses to answer why Seneca Wallace was not kept in the game or his feelings about it.

“Ask Pat,” is all he’d say. “Ask Pat.”

Ask Pat, because Pat is the one who decides who goes out on the field and who doesn’t, of course. But Colt didn’t end up dying out there so we can write this one off as a rookie mistake. Fine. A major relief. As much as a grownup might have avoided loads of angst here by saying as much on Monday, and/or by way of “a well-written news release that the Browns were unable to comment on details of McCoy’s concussion until the league inquiry was complete.” Process failure. Rookie mistake. Let’s move on:

Holmgren [was] extremely defensive and intermingling admonishments to media that “It’s not business as usual with the Cleveland Browns.”

So how isn’t it actually worse than “business as usual”?

“It seems as though it’s business as usual, which is very easy to write and say. But I’m telling you, it is not. And you can choose to believe me or you can say, ‘Nah, I’ve heard it before.’ That’s your choice. But when it does happen, don’t come to me for extra tickets for a playoff game or something. You’re either with us or you’re not. And I’ll be honest with you, sometimes I feel, not everybody … no I won’t. I’m telling you, it’s different now.”

No need to go over the background here again. Things are getting better because Fifty-Million-Dollar Mike says so. You scrubs are either with us or you’re not. If you don’t recognize full-on bunker mentality as leadership, Berea is not the place for you. Don’t even think about asking for playoff tickets.

Playoff tickets.

Wait. Holmgren did end up following up on why this season is so much better than we realize:

Offensively, if you just look at our games this season, if we did we did two things better. If we do two things better we have a chance to be 7-6 or something and people would be feeling a little bit better about themselves. I know the coaches would. If we would have just been able to snap the damn ball and catch a few more passes.

The missed snap against the Rams was tough for sure. As for the rest, maybe Phil Dawson hits a 55-yard field goal into the wind in Cincinnati, Maybe the Bengals don’t end up going on to score anyway even if they hadn’t caught the Browns napping with the long touchdown in Week 1. And it’s really hard to get too worked up about the dropped passes.

But the real problem here is that this team is a lot closer to 2-11 than they are to 7-6, and 2-11 is exactly what the the Browns would be if not for two plays in the Jags and Seahawks games, or if Seattle and Jacksonville hadn’t otherwise come out against them with the equivalent of severely neurologically impaired toddlers at the quarterback position. At 2-11, people would actually be feeling a lot worse here, if that can be imagined. Which doesn’t even get into questions about what things would look like if we had to play against a schedule like last year’s. But please do snap the damn ball and catch a few more passes. No excuses.

Except for the other thing:

The other thing is we’re implementing a new system, new coach, new young quarterback, all those things that you’ve heard before, but they’re real. That’s real. We’ll have a good offseason, we’re going to have a good draft. If we didn’t score some more points next year, I’d be very, very concerned …

Right well I mean shit who wouldn’t be extremely concerned how does anybody keep his job in Berea if this team doesn’t “score some more points next year”? This is one of the worst offensive seasons in Cleveland Browns history. But here we are in a league that gives losers every advantage, where it’s hard not to make the playoffs by accident at least once every three seasons, and next year, in the fourth year out from Mangini’s ’09 house-cleaning, Browns fan will be looking to “score more points.” Maybe we’ll get to go 6-10, too. Of course, a lot harder to take with our imaginations as free as they are to run wild about the likelihood that Mangini would have had the Browns in the playoff hunt this season. But about that guy:

“I made a decision on why I treated the first year a certain way and I’m not having any regrets about that … But this is like the second first year and you can say ‘Well, you wasted a year.’ Well, we know that now; I suppose you could say that now. But at the time, I don’t regret the decision I made.”

No regrets, of course. And of course it’s fine if Holmgren doesn’t want to admit that Mangini never had a chance from the start with him. But an honest leader might at least point out that he wasted a year of the football coach’s life, too, and with so many head coaching vacancies popping open, an honest leader might have referred back to “philosophical differences” to give a public vote of confidence to that coach who got jobbed so badly here. But then, an honest leader wouldn’t be worried about what a fool he might be made to look like when Mangini does return to the NFL sidelines.

So let’s get testy, people!

Before he was through, Holmgren got testy with a follow-up question about “business as usual” and stopped another in mid-sentence with “You’re not gonna ask me a question I already answered, are you?”

See, so it’s really not that Fifty-Million-Dollar Mike won’t eventually get this thing turned around against all history, impossible odds and nature. It’s the fact that fifty-million dollars can’t buy us a leader who can manage to hide his sense of entitlement to so much more public patience than what he showed for the guy he fired here.

But maybe a certain degree of intellectual honesty isn’t necessary to take an NFL organization to the highest level. As much as we sort of hate to think so, we can really only hope for now. Or laugh. Because “Pat Shurmur is a very, very competent young head coach who will be here for a long time.”

Cheddar Bay tomorrow, scrubs. With or against us, hup, hup. Happy Thursday.

—————

*A full transcript of the press conference is here. Grossi’s annotated lowlights are here.

**Thanks to @geronimobydick for cranking up the meme generator.

  • http://twitter.com/lilOUmikey Michael Tricarichi

    Pete, how tempted were you to put in a Gilbert burn to pull the quadfecta?

  • http://twitter.com/johncrist John Crist

    The one thing that no one has mentioned, even though it’s outrageous, is that Mike Holmgren has said that he will not be in Cleveland for the long term.

    Holmgren: Well, you know it’s hard to tell for sure. I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be 10 years.

    http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/10/mike_holmgren_cleveland_browns_1.html

    So, we are sitting here in year two of his contract (really, he signed two full years ago, so he’s now starting his third year) and we are more than halfway done. So, thanks, Mike.

    You took the money, you spiked the drink. You miss too much these days if you stop and think.

  • kjn

    *checks notes, does mental math*

    So next year will be our first second year, right? Or is that third first year?

  • Brian Sipe

    One of my favorites was… “if we could snap the ball we would have 2 more wins” Holmgren you puss… everyone knows coaches, GM’s should never, ever throw people under the bus… never heard mangini say “if Stuckey holds on to the ball I still have a job” or Romeo say “If Savage did not screw me over”….

    • Anonymous

      Holmgren: “If we would have won every game we didn’t, we’d be 12-0.”

      • Anonymous

        “If we could score more points than our opponents every game, then we would be practically undefeated.”

    • Anonymous

      well, they didn’t exactly throw him in front of a bus, but they cut the long snapper… besides, every coach, Mangini included, has said “couple plays here or there” and it’s a different ballgame PLENTY of times! and he followed that comment up with “you are what your record is” just like Mangini and Romeo said all the time as well.

      just sell me your seats Sipe, i want those playoff tickets and don’t want to ask Holmgren!

      • Brian Sipe

        HA Don’t come asking me for playff tix Biki!

        • Anonymous

          Steelers or Ravens? Because I don’t think I’d want either.

      • kjn

        And when coaches say it they sound desperate to justify their continued employment. Oddly enough, it sounds exactly the same coming from the mouth of a team President too.

    • Anonymous

      Out of all the things Holmgren said, that was the one that I really felt angry about. Blaming the long snapper who’s served the team with exemplary performance for nearly a decade for losing the game is trashy. That’s not even considering that the one snap he missed (the other was deflected by a leg that shouldn’t have been there) was for a bonehead 55 yarder into the wind that nobody would blame Dawson for missing anyway.

      I just keep hearing, “no excuses”, ringing in my head like some sort of flying monkey chorus.

    • Anonymous

      Out of all the things Holmgren said, that was the one that I really felt angry about. Blaming the long snapper who’s served the team with exemplary performance for nearly a decade for losing the game is trashy. That’s not even considering that the one snap he missed (the other was deflected by a leg that shouldn’t have been there) was for a bonehead 55 yarder into the wind that nobody would blame Dawson for missing anyway.

      I just keep hearing, “no excuses”, ringing in my head like some sort of flying monkey chorus.

      • Anonymous

        Agree with this line. This was the one problem with teh presser.

  • Anonymous

    one disagreement: I would actually be much happier if we were 2-11.

    we’d be getting the #2 pick (and probably a year closer to cleaning house)

    • Anonymous

      I’m happier 4-12 than 2-14. That’s just me.

  • Anonymous

    “Even at the lowest point of the Mangini era, the 1-11 start in his first season here, it was easy enough to see organizational decisions (and the win-loss record) as a function of a set of stated core values that the coach came in with, and as part of a courageous, long-viewed and necessary teardown of an organizational culture that had long gone to rot, something necessary to reverse a decade of unprecedented failure.”

    yes, we are clearly still in the process of replacing the “ROT” you speak of. While Mangini cleaned out what he thought was the garbage, he didn’t really help bringing in any new blood to the core group of players via his drafting or free agents. While I’m sure Mangini had a 3-4 year plan on how to rebuild the roster, let’s see where the guys are that Mangini brought in Year 1 to replace the “rot”:

    Alex Mack – very solid
    Benard – very solid
    MoMass – ?
    Maiava – decent
    Abe Elam – getting worked down in Dallas
    Kenyon Coleman – getting worked down in Dallas
    Robiskie – BUM for Jags
    CJ Mosely – BUM for JAGS
    Ratliff – BUM for Bucs
    Veikune – OUT OF LEAGUE
    Eric Barton – OUT OF LEAGUE
    David Bowens – OUT OF LEAGUE
    Hank Poteat – OUT OF LEAGUE
    John St. Clair – OUT OF LEAGUE
    Robert Royal – OUT OF LEAGUE
    Floyd Womack – IR/OUT OF LEAGUE

    So when Holmgren and Heckert got the job in 2010, they obviously looked at the roster and figured out their own plan on how to rebuild the roster so that it could sustainably compete. And just like I’m sure Mangini would have done as well as every other successful team has done in the past, they have focused their initial rebuilding efforts via the draft instead of high priced free agents (or run of the mill guys on their way to retirement like Mangini).

    As frustrating as it’s been, we’re now almost done with Year 2 and there are quite a few players that are part of the core that people can be excited about for in the future. We finally have what seems to be a nice core of 7-10 guys who with another influx of talent with probably 6-7 new rotation players next year. It also seems they are more willing to be players in the free agent market to add to the core. Heading into next season I fully expect to have a roster that is a huge upgrade in talent than what we’ve been used to in the past that should execute more consistently and score TDs instead of FGs.

    But sure, if we’re sitting here this time next year having the same arguments, then I’d be more concerned, but until then, I can’t wait until April so we can continue to replace the “ROT”

    • http://bryanjoiner.com/ Bryan Joiner

      Would you rather have a coach who was able to get the most out of players or a group of good players that a coach lets go to waste?

      • Anonymous

        DERP

        • http://bryanjoiner.com/ Bryan Joiner

          derp derp derp derp

          • Anonymous

            Teh F-in Derp thing has always bothered me. Makefyour point or don’t Bik.

          • The Cuuuuuuuuuuugs

            Agreed Joiner. Why can’t people acknowledge Mangini cleaned house and KNEW we would suck for a couple of years. It takes time to build things THE RIGHT WAY. Did you really want a repeat of Butch Davis? One playoff season but zero chance at long term success?

            To beat the Steelers and Ravens, you have to build like the Steelers and Ravens. EVEN THE BENGALS FIGURED THAT ONE OUT! They could have fired Marvin after last year, but saw that dysfunctional, quick-fix offensive players weren’t the answer. And look at them now…

    • Brian Sipe

      You forgot Evan Moore

    • Anonymous

      Why does it even matter that Mangini brought veterans in to replace the garbage that was here? The more relevant statistic is that Mangini cut some 30 guys when he got to Cleveland, and only two of them were in the league the next year. Go ahead and look it up.

      • Anonymous

        what matters is that they no longer are playing for ANYONE in the league right now. so the roster continues to have GLARING holes all over the place that are currently being filled by 1st and 2nd year players instead of veterans. hopefully as the young guys get more experience and we continue to add talent around them, they can be a key part of the team for next 4-7 years, so you know, we can have some consistency with the roster. that seems to be the plan, so “you’re either with us or you’re not! ” (he was talking to the media, and probably directly at Tony Grossi)

        • Metcalfupthemiddle

          What matters is, you are talking about Eric Mangini the GM not Eric Mangini the Coach.

          Its almost as if Mangini looked at his roster and said, our strengths are this and that and we will play to them.

          As for Shurmur, it seems he has decided regardless of what personnel he has, he is deciding to run HIS offense.

          I don’t know if Mangini was going to lead us to multiple playoff apperances or Super Bowls. But I do know that I haven’t seen a Browns team play as hard or with as much passion as I have during the 2010 season. And I don’t think there is really much to argue about that. The fact we have scored 1 TD in 1st and 3rd quarters combined proves this very fact.

          Cause you know, usually when you spend a whole week game planning for hopefully what are the weaknesses of the other team, regardless of whose on the field, you should be able to take advantage of those weaknesses once. Or in the 3rd quarter, making the adjustments for what didn’t work in the first half. And we haven’t scored once or shown the ability to adjust and that is sad.

          • Anonymous

            OMG get over the regular season wins vs NO and NE, it’s the NFL, those things happen, and Mangini is very experienced with the Patriots so that definitely helped I’ll admit that. but keep in mind that was the 2nd year of working with Mangini, his first 12 games with them by the way he went 1-11.. and we got SMOKED in 8 of those. so why isn’t Shurmur being given the same leash?

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            I agree. I am more than willing to give Shurmur these next 3 games and see how things turn out. I think that the criticism of Shurmur is a bit harsh. Regardless of Holmgren’s no excuse shananigans, I can’t imagine it is easy to come in with a very shortened off-season with new personnel and playbook and be successful. If anything Holmgren deserves the criticism just as much as Shurmur, which I think is finally happening.

            But on another note Biki, not getting ready for a play, multiple gaffes on special teams, not knowing what personnel is on the field or what is going on around the sidelines just screams that we are poorly coached. I hope he turns it around but this is just starting to look very much like the last 11 years.

          • Anonymous

            Super sensible.

          • Anonymous

            he’s the coach at least thru next season. they’re going to get him some new toys to play with on offense, and if he can’t get it done, then he deserves all the backlash.

            “not getting ready for a play” happens all the time in the NFL, but rarely does a team get burned for a TD like we did. offenses have broken plays all the time, same with defense. it happens.

            “multiple gaffes on special teams” – Other than replacing Pinkston, who has been a liability up there, Mack has had his issues and then of course Pontbriand had his issues.

            “not knowing what personnel is on the field or what is going on around the sidelines” – this is not something that is a rarity in the NFL. every NFL coach has gaffes like that, when you have guys getting injured and flying in and off the sidelines, things can get hectic, it happens. It’s not like it was a common occurance, but yeah, fortunately we didn’t turn it over, but it was one less down that we couldn’t score a TD instead of a FG, i get that, but it does happen, to every coach.

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            In regards to not getting ready for a play, please name som examples. And on defense, not offense. Like it was stated after week 1, there are rules in place so teams have the opportunity to match personnel and get ready.

            You really wont admit our ST have been dismal this year?

            And how many times have 3rd sting tight ends gotten carries in big situations? Better yet, and this is the big thing about Shurmur, how come he couldn’t man up and take responsibility? And please watch the McCoy hit again. There is no way he missed the hit, impossible. The hit was in the same line of view as the dump off. Plus, mixed with crowd reaction, the flag and he was basically almost knocked out cold, it is inconceivable that they missed it.

          • Anonymous

            i’ve seen plenty of examples of quicksnaps even this season. but none for TDs like ours was, but it happens. there are blown calls/coverages all the time. just ask Rob Ryan and Cowboy fan in last week’s debacle against Big Blue.

            yes, our FG unit has messed up a couple times, and other than a couple big returns and the fake FG, the ST unit hasn’t done too shabby. just ask the Ravens how they feel about their ST unit this year.

            enough with ConcussionGate, guys get hit all the time and get back in and play. Shurmur followed the proper protcol and listened to the medical experts. But I guess next time he’s supposed to presume the medical staff didn’t see the hit and he has to stop what he’s doing and run over to the medical staff to inform them that it was a helmet to helmet hit.

            OR, after he gets the OK from medical staff, he’s going to say “you know what Colt, even though the doctors said you were fine, i saw that hit, no way the doctors are right, you should stay out of one of the biggest games of both of our careers and i don’t want to risk your health and my job security with the fans, so sit down”

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            Yes, blown coverages do happen all the time. That is after the ball is snapped, and a bad play call is better than no play call at all.

            Exactly, regardless how good your team is, STs are an intricate part of the game. Look at SD last year and you can tell ST are a big part. The fact ours has regressed this year after being near the top the last few years.

            And, this isn’t about concussion gate as much as it is the cluelessness that seems to happen week and in and week out. I admit, I’ve worked 2 jobs already and sometimes you miss things and you learn by your mistakes. But I also am not getting paid millions of dollars. I still pride myself on doing my job correctly and try never to make the same mistake twice.

            And what about the Smith call?

          • Anonymous

            Dick Jauron runs the defense, so can’t really put that on Shurmur anyhow. There was miscommunication by a lot of people on that one, gotta give it to cinci to pull a wildcard quicksnap, rare that teams do that. Def a costly mistake at the wrong time.

            In terms of special teams, again, aside from a few isolated plays, we’re doing pretty well on coverages. ST is obviously a big part of the game, but i’d say it’s the least of our problems.

            Yeah, bonehead move on Smith call. It happens. But hopefully never again. But i guess we should fire him.

          • Brian Sipe

            Mangini also beat Pitt… something only done once in 17 tries

          • Anonymous

            >>>But I do know that I haven’t seen a Browns team play as hard or with as much passion as I have during the 2010 season>>>

            you must be young

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            I am bup. I’m 25, favorite childhood moment is cle-Pitt with metcalfs 2 TD punt returns and being able to talk to him about it in Texas before the ohio state Texas game 4 year ago. I don’t mind the smell of cigarettes thanks to Cleveland municipal stadium and dont understand why they don’t bring back the hill to put signs down on front of the dawg pound ( among other things… metcalf and I agreed the new stadium just doesn’t have close to the same feel as the old one).

            I’ve been going to games since I can remember and wish I was alive to enjoy winning and blue collar football. O well. Maybe one day.

          • Anonymous

            Sad. I was at the 89 Divisional game w/ my mom, dad and sister, saw Clay Matthews intercept Jim Kelly in the end zone to seal the win with the Browns up by 4. We were at the furthest end of the field closest to that end zone. Will never forget, or the walk back up E9th after the game. “Super Bowl Super Bowl Super Bowl!!!”

            Speaking of Metcalfupthemiddle, great photo here at PD’s recap: http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2010/01/this_day_in_browns_history_cle_3.html

            You should go to http://www.disqus.com and upload an avatar.

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            Another great Metcalf memory! That on Bebe getting flipped on his head.

            I am a huge fan of the site and would love to interact more, I”ll look into it. In the meantime, have a good Friday night.

        • Metcalfupthemiddle

          Also, its amazing that your are almost proving yourself wrong. I mean he was able to compete with the New Orleans and New Englands of the world with that roster, can you imagine what he would of done with a more talented roster and more time and cap space?

          Again, Mangini the coach. Not the GM. I think most would agree he was not fit for both positions.

          • Anonymous

            and who was going to put together that talented roster and more time and cap space? Pioli turned down the job because Lerner stupidly hired Mangini before hiring a GM. i mean NOT ONE other of the 8 openings called EM in for an interview, what was the rush? sure, if we had hired a proven GM first that hired Mangini, i’d be all for it. but no way was it going to work with Mangini and Holmgren/Heckert. good thing he finally admitted he wasted a year, but it is what it is.

          • Brian Sipe

            so who else called Shurmur for an interview?! Who else even knew Shurmur was alive?

            at least Mangini won 2 out of 3 years in NY

          • Anonymous

            Heckert knows him real well, they worked together for 10 years. And it’s Heckert’s job to hire the coach and that’s who they selected. The offense has proven to work, we just need more pieces on offense, if they suck like this next year after addressing offense in the offseason, then they deserve all of this, but until then they deserve patience.

          • Anonymous

            BIKI!!!! I’m with BIKI!!!

            Do you think they make a T-shirt that says that?

          • Anonymous

            Trying to figure out where the “offense has proven to work” is coming from. Not this year’s team I hope. Garbage time doesn’t count.

          • Anonymous

            the first drive against the Steelers, that was garbage time?? Colt missed that TD by inches, he always dives too early!

            but i was talking about the WCO in general, it’s a proven system when executed properly and the timing is there.

          • Anonymous

            You realize that defenses catch up with “proven systems” right?

          • Anonymous

            again, wasn’t talking about the Browns WCO specifically, we obviously don’t have all the pieces for it yet, especially at WR.

          • Anonymous

            Via Terry Pluto: “But your team is averaging 13.9 points a game. That compares with 16.7 and 15.9 in the offensively challenged Mangini years. It’s the worst since 2000, when the second-year expansion Browns averaged 10.1 points.

          • Anonymous

            yes, we obviously need to add talent to the offense next year. They were expecting a lot from MOMass this year. he worked out with all the greats this offseason and was primed for a big year but came to camp in a boot and then of course all his concussions. either way, we need 2-3 new guys on offense next year. getting steinbach should help too.

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            Didn’t we hire Heckert while Mangini was still here?

            So blame Lerner, don’t blame Mangini for getting a friggin job.

            What was Mangini supposed to do? Say to Lerner during the interview, “Hey Randy, you know, you probably should hire a president or GM first. I appreciate the job and all the Millions of dollars to coach 1 of 32 football teams, but I really would feel more comfortable accepting this job if you hired a GM first. Thanks though and please let me know if the new GM maybe wants to interview me again. Good Luck”

          • Anonymous

            yes, you are correct, it’s Lerner’s fault. Mangini was a victim of a bad owner, he should’ve known better.

          • Metcalfupthemiddle

            Lerner is the only consistent person involved in the last 11 years of losing…

          • Anonymous

            yes, but i’m cautiously optimistic he did the right thing in hiring Holmgren. We’ve got 2 good drafts in, and we should have the best one of all next year with Top 5 and 2 other picks in Top 40. it may be down right now, but i have a feeling there’s gonna be a lot of hype around the team starting in April.

          • Anonymous

            WRONG.

            Fans.
            Media.
            Ego Issues. Not a “person”, but in Cleveland, almost personified.

        • Brian Sipe

          Mangini beat NE and NO with a rosster worse than what is out there now, if you beleive Heckart is any good

          Shurmur has an extra year of Heckart drafts and all I hear about is there is no talent… Mangini had to switch Qb’s every other week, Shurmur has had Colt all year…

          • Anonymous

            the reason Mangini is gone is because he isn’t a WCO/4-3 guy, that’s a fact. as soon as Mangini leaves, they switch the systems. So get over it. It’s still only Year 2 of rebuilding a terrible roster. give them another year, if there aren’t any signs of progress then i think it’s fair to complain, but it’s just too early right now. so many things can go our way in the draft next year that could really help us. so many sick players in Top 5.

          • Brian Sipe

            I do agree with Bik on this… no way Mangini could survive the style change which is why it was dumb for Holmgren to keep him. of course if Lerner would not have rushed to hire Holmgren he would have seen Mangini win the last 4 games in ’09 and Mangini could have run last year the way he wanted to and had a chance to win. The way it woked Eric really only had control one year

      • Anonymous

        You’re in danger of a feared Biki-Pwning here Frownie. You didn’t answer him at all. The fact is, as good a game day/tactical coach as Mangini is (top 5) he grabbed low hanging fruit and probably produced more in his late first/second year than it is logical to assume he could have sustained.

        He’s a good coach.

        Coach (is less than sign) GM

        • Anonymous

          ??? Have no idea what you’re supporting this “low-hanging fruit”/”sustainability” thing with. See the second rod post below.

          • Anonymous

            I understand that Mangini pretty well had to do what he did to provide some stability in transition. I’m not commenting on whether it was the right or wrong thing to grab all those system vets, on the whole there wasn’t too much choice. But it was what it was, a tack that was bound to make the team basically look better from an on-the-field point of view than it was from a rebuild point of view. Your continued insistence that the personnel this year is “twice as good” is an abstraction too far. It isn’t. The roster went from one of the most experienced, to hands down the least experienced among starters. We’ve got a bunch of better pieces to build and grow with. That’s not the same thing simply as having “better players.” Then you take a bunch of rookie player mistakes and make them indicative of St. Eric’s genius by negative comparison with veteran savvy.

            There can be little doubt this would be a better team on the field this year with Mangini coaching this roster. I’ll give you that. That’s because Pat’s been a big fat fail so far. But it’s not an easier situation…it’s a harder one, probably an impossible one for a rookie coach. Definitely an impossible one for a stupid rookie head coach. But how Eric would have looked dealing with these youngsters–and whether there would have been ongoing personnel disagreements between him and the GM– can’t be assumed from the fact that he got a lot out of a field full of his own selections of semi-retired player/coaches. It’s a different job this year.

    • Anonymous

      I think you’re being a bit disingenuous here. Guys like Elam, Coleman, Eric Barton, Poteat and Bowens were brought in because they knew the system. EVERY coach does that. That’s the only reason Ogbonnaya is a Brown. You don’t win the New Orleans game last year without Bowens. He’s out the league now because he’s OLD…not because he couldn’t play.

      How about you go on about the guys Mangini cut? An even higher percentage were OUT OF THE LEAGUE that SAME year.

      • Anonymous

        The bottom line is that the roster was going to have major upheaval regardless and it needed to be rebuilt. Someone was gonna have to do it and Heckert picked up where Mangini left off and continued to purge the roster.

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          major upheaval as in signing free agents? well yes, if one presumes the team intends to compete, then yes free agent signings were a reasonable expectation as part of the upheaval.

          who knew artis hicks and christian yount wouldnt pan out?

          wait.. what.

          • Anonymous

            which free agent should we have signed? in terms of the OL, i really doubt Gurode or Waters wanted to come to Cleveland over Ravens and Pats.

            in terms of receivers, there really hasn’t been any free agents that went off this year. A lot of people were high on MoMass this offseason, he was really pushing himself hard this offseason and then unfortunately hurt his leg right before camp, and then of course the concussions. and then of course Robiskie didn’t seem to get that 3rd year leap like a lot of people were expecting him to.

            but yeah, i guess we should’ve traded for Lance Briggs or Osi.

          • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

            1. was an attempt made to sign a legit FA o-lineman? we dont know. if i, as a GM, want my fans to know that i’m trying to compete, i leak the story that i tried. but we dont know.
            2. still dont buy the ‘no talented WRs’ business. greg little’s measureables vs aj green–> 40, 4.53 vs 4.5; bench 27 vs 18; vertical, 40.5 vs 34.5, broad, 129 vs 126. i could go on. imo, it’s the coaching and the scheme more than the ‘talent.”
            3. briggs, avril, and osi would be contributing. that JAYME-MITCHELL-plus-two-rookies defensive line hasn’t really improved our run defense now has it?

          • Anonymous

            1. yeah because there are “legit FA o-lineman” on every street corner.

            2. Gregg Little verse AJ Green? really? so combine stats are what makes a great receiver?

            going into season the WR depth chart was:

            1. MoMass
            2. Robiskie
            3. Cribbs
            4. Little
            5. Norwood

            MoMass came to camp in a boot, Robiskie, as most people expected, was supposed to make a leap this offseason, Cribbs hasn’t been able to get much seperation and has had a few big drops. and of course Little, while he has shown flashes, obviously has some concentration issues.

            3. Briggs and Osi were never traded. no team in their right mind would give up what their respective teams wanted in return. What is the point of trading a 1st round pick for a middle aged player when we’re in a rebuild?

    • Anonymous

      And in 2009, Mangini inherited and cut (0 games started in NFL following season unless noted):

      Antwan Peek LB
      Mike Dragosavich
      Terry Cousin
      Ken Dorsey
      Eric Young (1)
      Bruce Gradkowski (4)
      Jason Wright
      Darnell Dinkins (3)
      Sean Jones (9)
      Scott Young
      Andra Davis (13)
      Daven Holly
      Shantee Orr
      Lennie Friedman
      Chase Pittman
      Seth McKinney (1)
      Travis Daniels
      Kris Griffin
      Willie McGinest
      Joe Jurevicius
      Kevin Shaffer (16)
      Allen Patrick
      David Holloway
      Devale Ellis
      Shaun Smith
      Bo Ruud
      Edward Williams

      Only one of these guys had more than 3 starts the following year (2010) and only Gradkowski and Jones are still on active rosters. So, I don’t want to hear about how he brought in guys you didn’t think were good enough. They were better than these clowns. These are 27 guys (who make up 42% of the active roster) and the list doesn’t include Winslow whom he traded. YOU CAN’T WIN IN THE NFL WITH 42% of YOUR ROSTER BEING TRUCK DRIVERS!

      • Anonymous

        Pretty sure Biki gets at least a one month ban because of this. Thoughts?

        • Brian Sipe

          As much as i always disagree with Bik, if we ban him then we become Fox News only showing one side of things…. and I can live with Bik much more than Fox news

          • Anonymous

            I can play the Biki role when needed. Admittedly it comes without the “Child please” tags and so forth, but if elected, I will serve.

        • Anonymous

          I actually like that Biki brings an opposing viewpoint. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I think he is bat-shit crazy. Bottom line, he is part of the Frowns community, and he gives us something else to talk about. Otherwise, this site would be one giant Mangini erection all the time.

          Unrelated note: Why is Grossi still writing about passing on Julio Jones? Our roster is still full of holes and we got 4 (I think) players for one. The guys we got are contributing and we have more picks this year. Last I checked no team has had 40 picks in any given draft, which is what we need if we want to build a team to replace the past 12 years of garbage.

          • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

            my only problem with the jujones trade is heckert’s absurd compulsion to surrender later picks to move up a couple slots. we have not gotten 3rd round pick value out of phil taylor at 22 vs who we wouldve picked at 27.

            i’ve made the point about justin houston, he’s the 3rd round pick we gave up to move 5 slots. he’s killing it at OLB for KC. it’s a position we need to fix.

            care to guess who was taken after justin houston? anyone? the guy taken right after the 3rd round pick heckert gave away to move up five slots as though no one of value would be there at 27?

            demarco murray.

            i’m pretty much off killing shurmur. my work there is done. i am now on a fucking jihad on tom heckert’s ass.

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          (to no one’s surprise) i had a list just like rod’s compiled and ready to send but just decided to sit this one out. instead of looking back at the inherited players, mine reviewed the draft picks of (the genius) heckert and suffice it to say, it’s roughly on par with mangini/kokinis. which is to say, heckert’s record is a C- now with potential to be a solid D.

          NO BAN!
          #freebiki

      • Anonymous

        I think you’re missing my point. Mangini was in Year 1 of a 4-5 year rebuild because the roster was in shambles. Just because he won 5 games and was close in most of the rest (in his 2nd year) doesn’t mean the roster was any closer to being able to sustain competitiveness in the future. When you go younger as was necessary for us to do, there will be some growing pains.

        Plus i don’t think Heckert expected our #1 receiver to be a shadow of himself, or Robiskie to flame out as well as all the injuries to the RBs. Hopefully coming up in the 4th offseason since Savage left we will be much closer to completing the roster so that there is a solid young core that we haven’t had since we’ve been back.

        • Anonymous

          you presume 4 to 5 years with no credible proof other than the assumption that it would take that long, and there is no way to prove it.

          also noted that this is year 2 of rebuild project, but that is also subjective especially when you tout that H&H or Shur or whoever rebuilt the roster this past offseason (pretty much the sign of a rebuild, no?) so is it year one or 2?

          all i see are excuses and hopes. dont get me wrong I want to see what you see, but my glasses arent made of rose with bullshit frames.

          • Anonymous

            you don’t need bullshit frames to see that a guy like Blackmon would help this offense. (or Luck, Barkley or RGII)

        • Anonymous

          They hardly had any draft picks that year, EM had to dump a bunch of turds, some of them thug turds, kept a bunch of young guys and brought in his older guys to show the young bucks the right way to be a good pro.Good locker room guys are crucial in the NFL and if you think thats not true you know nothing about football team chemistry.

          • Anonymous

            again, my only point was that the roster STILL needs a lot of work. too many holes to fill in even 2 offseasons. I’m sure Mangini would agree, I should send that question in to SportsNation, he was pretty good on there the other day. they have a plan and just like Holmgren said, they expect a good offseason and a good draft and they should be scoring more points. I don’t think that is a completely out of the question thing to say. If Blackmon was out there catching anything near him, wouldn’t you think that would help? If RGIII was QB?

        • Believelander

          For real, Rod. No fricking excuses.

  • humboldt

    “If you just look at our games this season…we have a chance to be 7-6 or something and people would be feeling a little bit better about themselves.”
    #MissionAccomplished

    • Anonymous

      Super best post of the day.

      This one shuts my mouth.

  • Anonymous

    gah, it’s so much better with caps lock. i’m honored, though.

    re: Holmgren’s tone — I wonder if it isn’t his coaching background. “You’re with us or you’re not” is something I tolerate/expect from a coach — but I think it ‘s wholly unacceptable from a Front Office/Executive type, who should know how this sounds to customers. Understood that he was talking specifically to the media, but it just lands the wrong way.

    • Anonymous

      Not for me. And I won’t be satisfied until you roll over and spout think blood.

  • Anonymous

    1. I guess since you made me pick a side Holmgren I am not on yours.

    2. The only playoff tickets I am concerned with would be the ones in Cleveland…you know so I can put that stub next to the other one from January 1, 1995.

    3. Ask Pat? Really?

    4. The officials gave us the Seattle game and that kid from Jax who dropped the ball in the end zone gave us that game. To even mention 7-6 is a LOT of daiquiris. You are 4-9. End of discussion.

    5. Why the endorsement of Shurmur? What is a long time to you?

    I fully expect this team to beat the Cards by 2 Touchdowns, Seneca to shine, Colt to never wear a Browns uni again, and another wild December in Berea.

    (As far as Colt never playing here again I just think his Dad is going to get involved.)

    • Anonymous

      Do you think his Dad has a new prototype holographic chip that Colt is going to get his hands on before anyone else?

      • Anonymous

        You can only hope. Honestly, after he came in and his legs could mostly work after that Harrison hit, I was like, where do you get these holographic chips?

    • Anonymous

      2. The only playoff tickets I am concerned with would be the ones in Cleveland…you know so I can put that stub next to the other one from January 1, 1995.

      F You. Mine’s from like 1986 or something.

      • Anonymous

        I was right behind the 3rd base dugout…my main memory of that game is simply being blown away in pregame by how strong of an arm that Bledsoe had. Then the game started and he played catch with Eric Turner. Good times. If you would have told me walking out of the stadium that day what the future would hold I would have laughed you right into Lake Erie.

  • wiseoldredbeard

    News: Heckert says they can and will assess McCoy at the end of the year regardless of o-line and receivers. Translation — even though he’s getting pounded and our receivers don’t get as open as they should, McCoy can’t throw lazers and we’re picking a first round QB. It’s time to start the QB discussion.

    • kjn

      RELATED
      Holmgren on Shurmur: he’ll be here a long time.
      Holmgren on McCoy: welp, lets wait on that and check…

      • Anonymous

        I’m liking your posts, KJN. There’s probably something wrong with you.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    if anyone wants to screw around with the mock draft-y thing, shoot me an email and i’ll grant privs to a spreadsheet i’m baking.

    my first pass gets us:
    1a. richardson
    1b. burfict (subject to exhaustive interview and other tests; cant get zac brown slipped to #22)
    2. minnifield
    3. foles (it’s my draft after all and in it, the ravens went for cousins.) (still not sure i dont prefer weeden here.*) (*weeden goes to pittsbugh… ugh.)
    4a. mccants, ot, uab. (obligatory line help.)
    4b. t.y. hilton, wr, fiu. (measurables so-so but always been a ‘playmaker.’)

    • wiseoldredbeard

      I want in — what is your email?

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        tweet/follow @jimkanicki .. ill follow you back and DM you.

        (actually, i just duped the mock page, and now you should be able to edit the ‘redbeard’ worksheet now.)

  • jpftribe

    From the trib.com Oct 21 2011:

    “Colt this year is still a pup,” Holmgren said. “He’s out there playing and getting banged around. He’s playing pretty well but at times playing kind of young, too. He will play this season and hopefully he stays healthy. At the end of the year we’ll look back and evaluate that.”

    Making a decision on McCoy’s future at the end of this season will be a top priority. No one knows more than Holmgren the importance of having a productive quarterback to build a successful franchise.

    “How long will it take? That’s a tough question,” he said. “In Green Bay we came in in 1992 and were in the Super Bowl five years later. In Seattle we came in and were in the Super Bowl seven years later. You have to have good drafts, and I have confidence in (general manager) Tom Heckert. You have to find a quarterback that can get you there. That’s as big as anything.”

    So if this is second first year, we can expect 4 to 6 more before we’re there. hat means two more drafts before they go after any top flight free agents, at least. Two more years of at best, mediocrity. I’m betting 5-11 is a good year next year, fantastic year if they draft another rookie QB to be the franchise QB. Newton is an unbelievable QB, surrounded by great skill players, and will be lucky to win 5 this year.

    It’s going to be painful for a while. Hopefully it pays off.

  • Anonymous

    I will sadly jump in with a Falcons (-11) pick for Cheddar Bay…this makes me sad but I can’t see Jags helping our draft status in any way tonight.

  • Anonymous

    Gets me a flyer on the Jags if it’s not too late.

    VIRTUE!!

  • http://twitter.com/CapitalGG Gavin Gould

    This week feels like it is going 1 of 2 ways… Lobsterfest or Virgin Lobsterita. Posting early because I have to attend the wifey’s work Christmas party tomorrow night. #drinksanddrinksanddrinksanddrinks

    1) Temple -7 v. Wyoming
    2) Utah St. -2 v. Ohio
    3) Bengals -6 @ Rams
    4) Saints -7 @ Vikings
    5) Jets +3 @ Eagles

    All of a sudden the Chargers are good? They blasted Jacksonville — who we know is awful — and the tankerific Buffalo Bills. Yes, 37 & 38 points scored is impressive but in the 3 games previous for San Diego against decent to good defenses, they score 20 points 1 time. Baltimore is bringing in what is known in football parlance as a dominant defense. Yes, they have to travel out west, but Baltimore is probably an 8 point favorite at a neutral site. Even if you assume 3 points for cross-country travel, then there is at least 2.5 points worth of value in this pick. So I’ll take Baltimore and give the 2.5 this week.

  • Anonymous

    From ESPN First Take…Coach Mangini quoting Bill Parcells.
    “Dealing with adversity is like swimming in the ocean..When the tide goes out you find out who’s swimming naked” You’ve lost your Speedo Mike.

  • pepe

    If I didn’t need a telescope to read the comments section, this would be the best website on the internet.

    • Anonymous

      Hit the control button then scroll up on your mouse. I feel this should be the first comment for every new post until it gets fixed.

  • Ben

    If Mike Holmgren is the Walrus, does that make Tom Heckert and Pat Shurmur (and for that matter BIKI) the Eggmen?

  • http://twitter.com/mjh4259 Mary

    Your take down of Holmgren for his treatment of Mangini is spot on, as usual. The “wasted year” excuse was especially grating. His arrogance and condescension toward the fans, the city and the media will not be soon forgotten. He’ll be lucky to be able to give away tickets to regular season games, let alone the playoffs.

  • http://bryanjoiner.com/ Bryan Joiner

    I want to have a Derp-off with Biki. There will be no losers. Except for Biki.

  • Chris P.

    gonna be out for a bit – so want to get these in in case I don’t get a chance

    Wyoming +6.5 Temple
    Ohio +2.5 Utah State
    San Diego State -5 Louisiana Lafayette
    Patriots -6 Broncos
    Panthers +6.5 Texans

    Betting what you know, eh?

    Every once in a while, it’s obvious when a team is about to implode, and never has it really seemed clearer than right now.

    To wit, if you had a team that had clearly lost faith in it’s leader as a 1) football mind, 2) leader/father/friend, 3) decent human being – it’d be hard to imagine that team getting up to get close in a game of any sort, let alone within a touchdown of a team that is playing well.

    Let’s review:
    1) Think what you want of his skills, but your quarterback gets his skull caved in by a serial skull caver
    2) Leader/Father/Friend says, in the words of a great military mind (german accent) “I know nothing!!!”
    3) Training staff repeats (german accent) “I know nothing!!!”
    4) All of above send quarterback into game.
    5) Supreme head honcho acts all puffy that you’d even question this

    Right-o. Excluding what you are forced to watch each week, which is an organization not really use any of it’s assets to win football games, you still have a bunch of leaders who don’t pay enough attention to keep players healthy (AT BEST) or at worst don’t give much of a crap about their players as human beings at all.

    Well who the fuck wouldn’t run through a wall for that?????

    I’d lay 13.5 against that team if it was the NFC Pro Bowl roster and Don Coryell’s brains were calling the offense and Buddy Ryan’s brains were calling the defense.

    But Pat Shurmur and Dick Jauron?

    And you’re on the road? And you’re not even gonna make me lay a whole touchdown to push?

    As one of the brightest Ohio-based football minds once said…

    “Child Please”

    Cardinals -6.5 Browns

  • Believelander

    Honorary guest Cheddar Bay mock up:

    Cardinals -6.5 over Browns
    Cardinals -6.5 over Browns
    Cardinals -6.5 over Browns
    Cardinals -6.5 over Browns
    Tim Tebow -/+whatever over whoever: duh

    Essay Pick: Cardinals -6.5 over Browns. Hard to write 100 words here, but we’re going to attempt it, because the Browns are terrible garbage and God himself has to be offended to have to watch the incompetent flailing rubbish we see packaged up each week as professional football. The Cardinals have an offense, and the Browns don’t. The Cardinals have some sort of defense; the Browns allow 1.2 million yards per game on the ground. The Browns have to play in the Cards’ house, and Seneca Wallace is getting his first start this season, when we’d probably have won more games if we put him in around week 8 or so, so look for him to be a slight bit rusty.

    Sigh.

    • Anonymous

      PLZ POST IN CHEDDAR BAY THRED THX.

      • Believelander

        Lolrus.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

    I live in Chicago, but I was raised in Cleveland and bleed orange every Sunday.

    But I also follow the Bears (every red-blooded American boy is allowed to cheer for both an AFC and an NFC team), and there’s a point to this ramble: this year’s Bears. Good team at the start. Smart, second-tier QB in Jay Cutler (he’s not Brady or Brees but he’s good). First-tier RB in Matt Forte. Shaky O-line but smart coaching all around. Great defense as usual.

    The Bears go 7-3. Looking pretty good. Not going to catch the Packers in what is an historic year for them but the Bears are on top of the wild-card chase. People in town are happy. Bears are confident, and why not — they have a shot of going deep into the playoffs.

    Then Cutler goes down and we get Caleb Hanie as QB. Who? WHO? Didn’t we see him once or twice? Not very impressive, frankly. Forget the one game in the playoffs and focus on what he did this year starting in the pre-season. He’s awful.

    Then Forte goes down. And the O-line is banged up. No holes, no protection, no help. No running game. The receivers are good but the QB can’t deliver the ball. Defense is on the field a lot more.

    See where this is heading? Now the Bears look a lot like the Browns on offense. Caleb isn’t getting it done, the RB-by-committee isn’t getting it done, the O-line sucks, and the Bears are scoring like the Browns offense is scoring. Which is to say, they aren’t. The Bears are now 7-6 and the wild-card is just about gone.

    Two key injuries to marque players and a banged up O-line is what separates most good teams from looking like the Browns offense.

    So when people try not to blame McCoy but blame others on the offense, sorry, that doesn’t fly. I like McCoy, he certainly has grit and there’s no question he’s been abused by a lack of a system, lack of an OC, lack of an O-line, lack of decent receivers and (this year) lack of a running game, but he plays, more and more, like Caleb Hanie, and I’ve seen all I want to see of that.

    The difference between the two teams is that the Bears have Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith. They have stability at the top. They have a system. So you figure the Bears will find a way to fix their problems. The Browns? I don’t see any indication that H & H and Shurmer get it.

    It’s strange: the Browns have been fixing the defense. Jauron actually has a pretty decent unit out there. They’ve keep the Browns ‘in the game’ in the traditional sense — within two scores — in most games until late. Problem is, the Browns have trouble scoring one touchdown let alone two.

    The question at the end of the day is, is Colt McCoy the answer at QB? More and more, I think the answer is ‘no’. Think Caleb Hanie, and shudder.

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