So much for that franchise quarterback thing

by Cleveland Frowns on March 10, 2012

Nobody knows when another quarterback will come into the NFL with as few question marks next to his name as Robert Griffin III has, but maybe we’ll get him next time. ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported that the Browns offered at least three first round picks to the Rams to move up two slots in April’s draft for the chance to draft the quarterback out of Baylor, “and possibly even the second-round pick.” SI’s Peter King tweeted that “Cleveland was in it, but didn’t want to give three ones and a 2.” Schefter added that, “Cleveland sensed it was going to get the deal done, only to be informed that St. Louis planned to deal the coveted No. 2 pick to the Redskins [for Washington’s first and second rounder this year, and their first rounders in 2013 and 2014].”

So we’ll have two really good cornerbacks now? At least we didn’t have to give up three shots at Gerard Warren/Braylon Edwards/William Green-type players. Plus, if RG3 was really worth anything, he’d tell the sociopath Dan Snyder that he won’t play for Washington. It’s his prerogative. Big question mark there if he doesn’t do this, actually. See, sometimes guys aren’t as good as you thought they were. We’ll have more on this on Monday. Go Zips.

  • Anonymous

    Rod emailed me this bit from ESPN’s Dan Graziano:

    “The price is toe-curlingly high, and a month or so ago I thought three first-rounders would have been too much. But I think the Redskins had to do it. Look around the league. Teams that get quarterback right are set for a decade. They are playoff teams, almost guaranteed, every single year. They have far fewer worries at draft time, and their offseasons are far less stressful and scrutinized. Teams that miss on quarterback are miserable, lost and confused, perpetually reaching for ill-fitting solutions and facing the same insurmountable problems year in and year out.”

    • manc

      This is one of the few (ok, maybe only) times that having a raving lunatic as owner has worked out for My Beloved Redskins. If RG3’s as good as advertised, the Skins have solved a perpetual sore spot…QB has been a revolving door in DC, with slightly more competent play than in Cleveland.

  • Anonymous

    i really wanted RG3 and am disappointed. i guess time will tell what was the right decision, but the idea that moving up 2 spots was worth that much is a bit tough to swallow. but has Rod said, it is if it works.

    i will say, from the Rams perspective, I think they made a mistake. especially if they made the decision over getting one more 2nd round pick. i mean, they fall to #6 this year, which is a fairly big difference from #4 (unless WR Blackmon falls to them, a bit need position). but more than that, a browns #19 this year and a Browns pick next year (a top 15 pick for sure) is probably going to be a better haul than Redskins future picks. the 2013 pick could be around #19, as the redskins will make a run at 8-8 or more. then the 2014 pick will be a late round pick if they continue the progress. well, whatever. speculation.

    lets just hope to god they don’t draft Trent Richardson. i wouldn’t mind them taking the best available OT, but that probably won’t happen. at this point, they might as well trade back.

    hopefully weeden or flynn to take over for Colt.

    i think its about time to turn to the 2013 draft….with the 6th pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select…..

    • Anonymous

      I feel like we’re a lock to get Claiborne. I don’t think anybody will want to trade up to #4.

      Also, I don’t think Stephen Hill is going to last until the 22nd pick. Guy looks like another Megatron.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Exactly correct Frownie,
        The Browns may choose from three guys who will be a good choice with that #4.
        1.) Clairborne
        2.) Clairborne
        3.) Clairborne

        I literally let out a Homer-esque WOO HOO when Washington screwed up.

        • Anonymous

          Acto, if you are right about this…you will be touted and heralded and I will be your biggest fan.

          • Anonymous

            He’s right about this.

            That price is just too high. Maybe it works out for them, but if it does it’s because sometimes a bad risk works out.

            I’m amazed that the Browns were willing to go as far as they did, which must have been farther than the 2 firsts and a second or the Skins wouldn’t have had to pay what they did.

            I can’t believe that’s the price.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            You will be my biggest fan?
            I thought you were my biggest fan.

      • Anonymous

        i like claiborne as well. really stoked at the idea we can shut down the outside, shore up the end and get a cover lb, and we dont necessarily need offense to win games, although we will be boring on one side of the ball (instead of both, lol).

        Claiborne, (best DL/WR/OL @22), Weeden? pursue Garcon like we love his mommas sweet potato pie!

        but for the love of GOD please not richardson or Blackmon.

        full disclosure: my gut feeling on drafts has all to do with how they would sound coming out of announcers mouths, so I am skeptical of Weeden, but I do think he is pro ready now, and can last at least 8 years if we protect him.

        • Anonymous

          pair Haden up with Janoris Jenkins again..

      • Anonymous

        my initial reaction was to take Blackmon just to fuck the Rams (i think they are banking that falls to #6 as part of this deal).

        but then i remembered that Blackmon wasn’t apparently the “slower dez bryant”.

        but this week he ran a 4.4 at his pro day this week. faster than Dez, faster than AJ Green, and faster than top free agents like Vincent Jackson. And its my understanding he is less diva-ish than a typical WR. Then again, he is sort of short (6’1).

        • Tyidmt

          I would like to see the browns get someone that could actually help out the offense…Blackmon fits the bill…defense only wins games that the offense scores in…not much of that last season

    • Anonymous

      Also, am having a hard time seeing them going with Tannehill or Weeden. I dunno. They’ve got a lot of sunk cost in Colt now. If they’re going to replace him it would seem to have to be for a guy they could be sure about plugging in as “The Man.” I don’t know.

      • Anonymous

        lot of sunk cost??? 3rd round pick cost? 4 year $4.96m cost? or the cost of starting him over Seneca Wallace???

        • Anonymous

          The cost of trotting him out as your starting quarterback for the better part of two seasons. That’s not insignificant.

          • Anonymous

            didn’t have much of a choice, could’ve gone with Seneca i suppose and stick with the original plan of have Colt holding the clipboard for his first few years.. besides the QB cupboard was pretty bare and not much in FA or draft.. guess we could’ve gone after Locker, Ponder, or Dalton last year, but they had reason to have hope that Colt would progress in Year 2.. but who knows, guess we’ll know soon enough..

          • Tyidmt

            He would’ve had better stats and more wins, if someone could actually catch a ball…Blackmon is the guy that I would go after!!

          • Anonymous

            Heckert and Co had a close-up look at him at his pro-day!

      • Anonymous

        you are right. they will stick w/ colt over those others.

        but could still see a play for a FA (flynn or Kolb if cut).

        • Anonymous

          ESPN’s Jamison Hensley:

          “Losing out on RG3 is devastating to Browns

          . . . .

          “The Browns are now going to have to overpay for Matt Flynn. Like RG3, there is no guarantee that Flynn is an NFL starting quarterback. Unlike RG3, Flynn lacks the tools to carry an offense. He doesn’t have the size or arm strength teams covet in a quarterback, which is why the Redskins paid such a high price to leapfrog the Browns for RG3.

          “And, by paying that price, the Redskins are assured of getting RG3. The Browns, meanwhile, are assured of nothing. While it’s assumed that the Browns will focus on Flynn, there’s no guarantee that they will land the longtime Green Bay backup. Flynn could reunite with former Packers offensive coordinator Joe Philbin in Miami if the Dolphins lose out on Peyton Manning.

          “If the Browns lose out on Flynn, they’re left with either drafting Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill in the top 10, signing Jason Campbell or Kyle Orton in free agency, or staying with Colt McCoy for another season. I know — don’t everyone rush out and buy that Campbell jersey all at once.

          “When looking at these options, the Browns should be regretting the fact that they didn’t do enough to get RG3. Whatever the Redskins had planned to offer, Cleveland should’ve offered more. RG3 has the arm, speed and charisma that the Browns franchise desperately needed. Now, without RG3, the Browns are simply desperate for a quarterback once again.”

          • jimkanicki

            The Browns are now going to have to overpay for Matt Flynn

            bissinger makes some good observations on what passes for reporting here. among the relevant passages:

            “Much of life seems to hinge on hyperventilation or hyperventilated speculation these days—politics, the economy, the housing market, the next child Angelina will adopt whether Brad likes it or not, and of course sports.

            That’s the way it works today, un-information as information. ”

            i dont know jamison hensley and i dont know his basis for presenting the above statement as fact. but i couldnt be more tired of ‘journalists’ who dont know, posing as though they do.

          • Anonymous

            exactly. for every Hensley, there’s a Terry Pluto who is against giving up what the Skins did… and then there’s this Slate article which states that “the trade is almost certainly a disaster”

            maybe we should wait until after the draft to compare the 3 guys we would’ve had to have given up versus RG3, and then of course lets fast forward 3-4 years to compare the results now, Now, NOW!!!

          • jim

            Going big on Matt Flynn would go against everything Heckert stands for. He simply doesn’t spend like a drunken sailer in free agency, and that’s what it will take to get Flynn once Miami loses out on Manning.

    • Anonymous

      including getting steinbach, benard, brandon jackson, and TJ Ward back from injury, as well as the 3-4 key rotation guys (including hopefully a pro bowl calibur guy with #4) we add via draft as well as a couple FA’s the makeup of the roster should be much improved. that’s around 11 new and improved blood to add to the mix. let’s see how the draft goes, but assuming we do as well as i believe Heckert and his guys will do, i’m thinking we’re looking at 15-20th pick next year.. we shall see

  • Chris Music

    Is it appropriate to start the #Barkleyin2013 hashtag?

  • Anonymous

    This is obviously disappointing. I don’t know if RGIII is going to be that transcendent franchise player that comes along once in 10 years. What I do know is that there isn’t a question mark to be had in evaluating him and it’s not often you can say that. I don’t believe in “can’t miss” but I do believe in “question-free”.

    I was trying to contain my excitement over the idea that RGIII could be drafted by the Browns because, after all, that is the only way an athlete of that ability is coming to Cleveland. The price was steep but if you’re in the conversation and have the picks then you can’t nickel and dime it for a franchise QB. It’s been stated that the Skins gave up 3 #1’s and a second. Truly they flip-flopped this year’s #1 and gave up TWO 1’s and a 2. If the Browns were close to this and whiffed, shame on them. If they were simply “late” to get involved then they really were outclassed.

    THAT is hard to stomach.I know Holmgren has a reputation for QB’s but the recent list is unimpressive (John David Booty anyone?) and my confidence that the Browns will come out on the positive side of the RGIII situation isn’t very good.

    Time will tell if the Redskins gave up too much but I suspect they will not have. It’s best to get over it and move on. At this point, are the Browns major players for Matt Flynn? I guess they are. The problem is that his size is remarkably similar to Colt McCoy and I’m not sure if that’s good. The real concern is overpaying for a guy like that. Two words: Scott Mitchell.

    What do the Browns do at #4? It depends on whether or not they get Flynn or some other FA QB. You still have to feel good about two first rounders but if you can’t get a franchise QB soon a lot of the pieces you do have will start to see their windows close.

    Is it just me or are the Browns starting to resemble the “Seattle Holmgren Experience”? That’s not good.

    • Anonymous

      it’s just you.. don’t see any resemblance to his situation in Seattle, unless we trade for Flynn (ala Hasselbeck) but that is now out of the question, and Hardesty ends up being the next Shaun Alexander.. and Greg Little ends up as good as Darrell Jackson was..

      it seems that 70% of the national public felt that DC overpaid, and I agree 100%. still a lot of question marks about RG3 due to his level of competition in college and while giving up as much as they did may be worth it, rarely does it work out when you put all your eggs in one basket.. but i guess if you’re Dan Snyder, you can’t go 0-20 on all your gambles in your NFL career, so maybe this one works out for them..

      guess we’ll see how our 4 guys we select do versus RG3 these next few years, especially the 3 we take this year.. i’m still not convinced Colt can’t get it done with another year under his belt, full offseason, progressions of the young guys, and of course additions of some much needed playmakers via draft and FA..

      • Anonymous

        DC has experience on the other end of this sort of deal and look how well that worked out for them:

        Blockbuster Flashback

        Here is a look at the players who turned out to be involved in the Saints’ 1999 deal with the Redskins for the right to draft Ricky Williams.
        Round Pick Year Team Position Player
        1 12 1999 Bears QB Cade McNown
        3 71 1999 Bears WR D’Wayne Bates
        4 107 1999 Redskins LB Nate Stimson
        5 144 1999 Bears LB Khari Samuel
        6 179 1999 Broncos TE Desmond Clark
        7 218 1999 Broncos WR Billy Miller
        1 2 2000 Redskins LB LaVar Arrington
        3 64 2000 Redskins DB Lloyd Harrison

        Would you trade all of these guys for RG3?

        • Anonymous

          not sure if that’s the best example. while there were plenty of picks involved, the overall value doesn’t compare to what the Skins gave up.. there has NEVER in the HISTORY OF THE NFL been a trade involving 3 #1’s, for a surplus of 2 #1s and a 2nd rounder. so while there may be a lot of names there, most of the picks are garbage value-wise.. so no, i would not trade all those guys for RG3, but completely different situation.

          i’m sure every year we will be reminded on how the 4 guys the Rams selected fared versus how RG3 does, and in our case, it is probably safe to assume if we closed the deal we would’ve given up our first 3 picks this year. so i’m sure we’ll “flashback” quite often over the next few years..

          i went to college in DC, so i know how nuts they are for their Skins and happy for the buzz they will get, but most of them are not happy with what they had to give up.. we’ll see what happens..

          • Anonymous

            Biki- for the record, I have always been a “one guy isn’t worth 3 or 4 guys” kind of observer. I am admittedly going against my core value here but that’s just how I feel about this particular player.

            While I felt RG3 was an imperative, I am moving on knowing that comfortably, the Browns SHOULD get three upgrades/starters out of this year’s draft in the first 40 picks. That’s not shabby.

            I don’t see a franchise QB beyond those top two and that’s a bit worrisome.

          • Anonymous

            glad the Browns agreed the risk wasn’t worth the reward. we’ll see how it plays out.

    • Anonymous

      then there’s the little tidbit that Holmgren is neither the GM or HC in CLE, slight change from having both of those titles in SEA..

      • Chris M

        Anonymous derpguest loves this one.

        “then there’s the little tidbit that Holmgren is neither the GM or HC in CLE

        Are you trying to say that he doesn’t have a ton of input into personnel decisions here in Cleveland?

        • Anonymous

          i don’t have any idea what metric weight of input he has. but i sure know he’s not coaching as well as being GM, so I just don’t see the parallels between Seattle and Cleveland..

    • actovegin1armstrong

      “Is it just me or are the Browns starting to resemble the “Seattle Holmgren Experience”?”

      Shirley you meant the Seattle Hendrix Experience.

      Give me “Little Wing” sans lyrics and triangle.

  • Anonymous


  • Brian Sipe

    Colt will have ZERO cinfidence when this is all over with… we will make a play for Flynn and whiff on that too… then brass will claim “we alwasy felt great about Colt in this role”…. never mind we tried for everyone else and came up short

    • SpaceGhost

      Why the hell would we want Flynn? He’s almost a carbon copy of Colt McCoy.

      • Anonymous

        except Flynn will be going into year 4 of the WCO and Colt is going into year 1.5 (minus last offseason).. Paul Allen is a bit of a gambler as well, and he’s been taking some major hits lately, especially with the Blazers so who knows how big he will open his checkbook for Flynn.. If Peyton signs with Miami on Tues then i’m sure the talks will heat up for Browns going after him.. should be a fun week ahead!

        • Anonymous

          Colt was coddled from the womb into college with his father basically handpicking talent to surround him with to make him better. The Browns were Colt’s first taste of adversity and struggle to achieve. I’ll admit he brings the right attitude when he isnt in the fire, but the on field product has prgressively gotten worse. Now, we can argue the tools surrounding him, O-line, daddy issues, OC’s berating him causing 1-year-later-ptsd, whatever.

          Can Colt be the man? Anything is possible, but our routes last year were kindergarten, ESPECIALLY for a QB who can hardly throw an 8 yard out with any zip. Combine that with Daddy still probably mad for concussiongate and I really dont think Colt is here this year, or if he is its simply because NO OTHER TEAM wants him.

          • Anonymous

            there were way too many things that you could bring up in addition to “our routes” and whether he can throw an 8 yard out with any zip or not (another classic cleveland fan overdramatization).

            there were quite a few drives he had where he looked pretty darn good. of course they were few and far between, but you could at least see the potential is there should the pass protection be there, the timing right, and of course the receivers caught and ran with the ball. if in fact Colt is the starter next year, or whoever the starter may be, getting Steinbach back, having a healthy rushing attack as well as upgrades at WR will hopefully help the offense put up an exta 6-10 points up per game.. only time will tell..

          • Anonymous

            of course, and if we would of just bet red when red hit on the table… if, if, if…all our ducks lined in a row… if we took a tecmo approach and our line plays like they are all in their prime, if our RB’s can do more than plow into an O-linemans buttocks for 1 1/2 yards.

            Oh, Oh if only the sun shines on a Dawg’s ass once in a while, man we would be something.

            I want to believe, and I agree in the concepts of your improvements, but not the people we have in place currently. The part that can change is the people. Keep Stein if he is healthy enough to rotate, bring in his successor. Get rid of Hardesty, he cant do it. Bring in a crisp, proven WR (GARCON!!) and 1 more speedster via draft and let our previous starting wrs be 2nd,3rd,backup, special teams fodder.

            Regardless of personnel, our gameplan and playcalling have to improve. So we shall see. Do we hit the NFL equiv of the lottery and spend the rest of our days in Bikiland where everything lines up right and all intended purpose is fluid, or do we conceed to Wahoo and wallow in always coming up a day late and a dollar (or draftpick) short.

          • Anonymous

            with steinbach back, and possible moving over of Pinkston to RT or upgrading Pashos via draft or FA, we should be back to having one of the better offensive lines again which will help the offense a lot. it’s not a situation where everything has to line up right, we have some very good players on the offensive line, that is the foundation of any good offense. adding a legit #1 WR like Blackmon (or Garcon) would also certainly help as we finally would have a receiver who commands a double team, which hasn’t happened one time the past 2 years.. and hopefully bringing Hillis back and having him healthy will also cause matchup problems and keep the opposing defense on their toes and that should open things up as well… i don’t expect them to sit back and not bring in playmakers again this offseason. this is the biggest offseason in Browns history, and they have a lot of tools via draft picks and cap room to address various glaring holes, let’s see how they do.. i’m optimistic we’ll see a much better product on the field, mainly because our overall talent level will be much improved.. i’m thinking 11 new guys in rotation that will be an upgrade on who we had out there in the 2nd half of last season.. that’s not insignificant

          • Anonymous

            I agree with everything you say here, but it doesnt mean I have to be happy about it!!! /poutyface

    • Anonymous

      i think that whole losing confidence thing is overrated.. he was never promised the starting job, and he would be the first to say he has a lot of work to do to improve his play.. if he loses confidence over the team wanting to improve themselves, then good riddance..

      • Anonymous

        Hell, I’m agreeing with Biki….

    • Anonymous

      Mangini toughened him up, remember?

    • Anonymous

      presuming Colt watches film of his play, i don’t know how he could have any confidence about anything.

  • Bryan

    This is such a tough call. I feel like RGIII has been so hyped in the past month. I really wanted him, but I also had a feeling in my gut that it was irrational.

    Even two months ago RGIII was a question mark as a top 10 pick. When Barkley was still in the mix, everyone had RGIII below him. Then the combine happens and all of sudden everyone has RGIII on equal footing with Luck. I think people overweight the combine stuff (think Vernon Gholston or Courtney Brown).

    My raw reaction is bitterness. But I think in the long-run we did the right thing.

    One final thought: It would be amazing if the Colts now took RGIII.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      All of you kids out there should listen to this Bryan guy.

      “Even two months ago RGIII was a question mark as a top 10 pick.”

      RG3 can throw at predetermined targets and he is very fast, but he is as elusive a Galapagos Tortoise.

      • Anonymous

        plus i believe he’s already blown out an ACL once.. every time he rolls out of the pocket i’m sure the entire DC Metro area will collectively be holding their breath (either expecting a sick play, or a sickening injury)

        • actovegin1armstrong

          You brought back my horrified vision of Joe Theisman with that comment.
          You are absolutely correct, they put a lot of “eggs” in a fragile basket.

        • Anonymous

          If that guy busts or gets hurt, STL wins the superbowl multiple years.

          I’m sorry we didn’t get him, but you can’t pay that.

    • Brian

      but he was .00000004 seconds faster and 1/8 of an inch taller than previously thought its like he is a different player now

    • Bryan

      This was 3 months ago:

      Clearly RGIII was always a top 10 guy, but somehow he elevated from top 10 (maybe top 5) to “let’s trade 3 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder” for him” while playing only a bowl game.

      Again, part of me wanted him. But this outcome is hysteria.

  • Anonymous

    I think that draft picks are going to be less valuable in the future. With the new rookie wage scale, the initial contracts are shorter in length resulting in younger free agents. I’m not saying that the draft isn’t the best way to build but hoarding picks may not be as prevalent in the future.

    • jpftribe

      Totally respect your opinion and the x’s and o’s with the bros is the best football on the internet. But have to disagree here.

      A flop for 1’s plus 2 No 1’s and and No 2 is at least three starting caliber players. Potentially pro bowlers. Potentially busts depending on your GM.

      If you look at the 49’ers and Giants, they are built on No 1’s.

      The Browns have so many starting holes, to have just this year a pro bowl CB OR OL

      And a solid if not spectacular WR

      And a starting LB, DL with the future picks…. I dunno, I like our position.

      I would have loved to have landed RGIII, but not for the price Snyder paid.

      • Anonymous

        Some will think the price too steep. I am not one of them but everyone has their line in the sand. You can rest easy that your GM isn’t throwing around draft picks like Monopoly money but there are some GMs out there who feel that hoarding those picks is passe.

        Not weighing in on whether it’s right or not…just that it may be one way that the league is changing.

        • Anonymous

          we’re talking about Dan Snyder here, not “some GMs”… if this trade went down in the NBA, Stern would’ve definitely rejected it.. actually, i don’t believe it’s even within league rules to trade 3 years of 1st rounders..

          and ask the Bears how the Cutler trade and mortgaging a couple 1st rounders as well as other selections has been working out for them..

          in fact the Pats, who are the kings of hoarding picks, seem to be doing quite well with that strategy..

    • Anonymous

      I think that high draft picks are now more valuable because of the rookie wage scale. Teams picking in the top 10 no longer have to worry about holdouts and forking over insane amounts of money to guys that have never played a down in the NFL (and are suddenly one of the team’s top salaries). The financial risk of a major bust (both on-field an financially ala Jamarcus Russell) is now reduced. Luck and Griffin will be paid 4 years/22-25 million. Compare that to what Bradford and Stafford got just a few years ago, or even what Joe Haden got at #6. Top rookies will now be cheaper than most veterans, which makes sense.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Exactly correct “thatsfine”.
        I am glad that I read down the list a bit because I was about to post virtually the same thing.
        I have tremendous respect for Rod’o, but I am certain that he got a hold of too much of that free Vodka at the e-party last night.
        Most of Austin will be spending the next ten days drinking too much and sleeping too little.

  • jim

    If that’s the price of the second pick, what’s the price for the first? Before last night I’d have to think that if the Browns offered three first round picks and a second for the Colts’ first pick, they would have at least considered it.

  • Anonymous

    Good read from FSOhioZJackson:

    “[T]he Redskins coached the South team at the Senior Bowl. The North won the actual game, but the South was the stronger team. The Redskins got a unique look at Brandon Weeden, some first-round defenders and a bunch of talented players. They were willing to trade out of the chance to get any of those guys for the right to take Griffin.”

    • Anonymous

      shanahan doesn’t really have much skin in the game.. he can ride off into the sunset with a nice nest egg, if it doesn’t work out well for them this year, he’s probably a goner so what does he care about future picks?? so that leaves Snyder, the king of overpaying and making a big splash with very little to show for it, 3 winning seasons in 13 years of ownership.. in snyder we trust??

    • Anonymous

      GOod read from cbssports’s Clark Judge:

      “Obviously, he knew what you and I do — that the Redskins go nowhere unless they upgrade at quarterback. But rookies typically take time to develop. Yeah, Cam Newton and Andy Dalton starred as rookies, but they’re the exceptions.

      Peyton Manning was more the rule.

      It’s a position that takes time — sometimes a lot of time — to develop. Heck, it wasn’t until his fourth season that Drew Brees became an accomplished quarterback, and by then the Chargers had all but given up on the guy — acquiring first-round draft pick Philip Rivers to replace him.

      But time is something RG3 will not have, and I feel for him.”

      • Anonymous

        That is a good read.

        • Robert

          why should we believe what you think is a good read when you make comments that disagree with you disappear? Either you are sure in your beliefs or you are a sad little man who makes any disagreements with your beliefs disappear, oh wait, you already answered that

        • Robert

          Free the comments, Frownie the facist, either you believe in difference of opinion or believe in totalitarian control of the message

    • Anonymous

      “In a vacuum, the Redskins (Browns) almost had to make this trade — nothing changes the fortunes of a franchise like drafting a potential superstar quarterback to replace a QB like Rex Grossman (Colt McCoy). But with few high picks to build around going forward, Washington (Cleveland) will need general manager Bruce Allen (Tom Heckert) to weave some pretty complicated magic with their salary-cap space to keep the depth around Griffin from drying up again.

      Griffin could very well end up being good enough to paper over a few holes, but the Redskins (Browns) may have more holes than the average team if they can’t find some decent young depth. Even if RG3 does develop into the star the Redskins (Browns) hope he will be, this trade is a calculated gamble.”

  • Anonymous

    I’m pretty sure that I am the only goof here that was NOT born and raised in NE Ohio. Lots of you are no longer here in body but your spirit remains. Impervious, as Frowns likes to say. Especially when it comes to loyalty and the Browns. Some of the most passionate contributors here are in other time zones but still so very tuned in to all things regarding Cleveland sports teams. Amazing!! Never ceases to amaze me. Your (our) day WILL come, and it will be sweeter than you (we) ever imagined.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      Thank you for the compliments.
      The Browns Backers is the largest expatriate fan club, they pack bars in cities everywhere.
      In the 80’s I would always go to the Browns v. Oilers games at the Astrodome, the Browns Tailgaters ruled the roost, the dome looked like a sea of Orange during the game and there was a marked difference in the, shall we call it ardent fervor of the screaming Browns fans.

      Oilers fans would later complain about the behavior of the Browns faithful.
      We took their insults as compliments, mainly because they were made long after the game and never to our faces.
      Kids from Cleveland do not shy away from voicing their opinions.

    • PittsburghisforManLovers

      For reals? I stopped imagining that day a long time ago.

      • Anonymous

        Nah. Must have been the Pinot talking.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          I am certain that you extended the jinx for at least a couple of decades by bringing it up.

          • Anonymous

            I wish I were that powerful. Now to come up with a reverse jinx. Where is my corkscrew?

            I do hope that all you out-of-staters will be here when that magical day comes. A big sleepover at Frowns Place would be a riot.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Regrettably letting that last statement/straight line drop.
            Nice Ed McMahon imitation.

  • Josh Curtis

    As my only other two posts have showed, I was all in on RG3. I feel as though the Browns missed an opportunity on a potential franchise guy. While wallowing in my sorrows, this thought came to mind and eased the pain to the point where I am excited at the prospect of having 3 picks in the top whatever: Many teams have been outbid by the Redskins, and none have lived to regret it. Will RG3 fail because Snyder is Snyder? Noone knows. Will he succeed because he can run a killer bootleg in Shanny’s offense? Who cares because Colt is probably rolling to the right at this very moment! I feel Heckert has done well at the top of the draft, so with these multiple first rounders and early second rounder, I think we will get some guys we can get excited about. Wish I could say good luck to RG3, but I hate the ‘Skins (my dad is a lifelong Cowboys fan) and I hope they continue to suck. I havent noticed anyone say this, but I do believe the Browns and Redskins play this year. Can’t wait

  • Robert

    Frownie has gone an combined two things that I could live without, worthless liberal claptrap that is just reiterated from politco and the worthless prognostication from jamison hensley. using second hand crap to justify your work is still using second hand crap. why don’t you just join the mangini suckfest at espn and stop trying to sell yourself as a cleveland fan.

  • Robert

    funny how posts critical of frownie disappear

  • Robert

    Everytime I write a comment that mocks frowns he makes it disappear. It’s funny how a man who thinks kucinich got robbed by the republicans works overtime to make sure that every comment on his site adheres to his liberal mandate

    • Anonymous

      I prefer to think of it as working overtime to keep assholes, especially anonymous assholes, away from this wonderful little webspace we’ve built here.

      If what you have to say is so enlightening, you’ll be able to crack the darkness by finding some other space on the web for it. There’s unlimited room, so it shouldnt be too hard. G’luck.

      • Robert,I’ve never made effort to make myself anonymous, you’re the only one who went out of his way to control his message by erasing my comments

    • Anonymous

      Also, it’s really not work at all. You wouldnt believe how easy it is.

      • Robert

        its funny how comments i made earlier have disappeared, feel free to control the message, it just proves how insecure you feel

      • Robert

        you do realize your comments make no sense what so ever, for a supposedly accomplished lawyer, one would expect roaring rhetoric excoriating me as a huge piece of crap….and yet, I get empty rhetoric and veiled threats….You learn that from the Dimora school of Defense?

        • Anonymous


          • Robert


    • Anonymous

      dare I feed the troll?

      • Robert

        still waiting on that troll

  • Anonymous

    It takes time for a talented QB to develop?
    When do we start our timer? Delay, delay, delay. Wait, wait. wait.

    Wait for what?

    RG3 was The Guy & H&H didn’t get it done.

    Holmgren = Fail.

    Get rid of his fat, overpaid, incompetent ass. His gross mismanagement leaves me at a 58 year low.

    • Anonymous

      you’re in the gross minority who feels this was a failure by the Browns.. in fact, and this may be due to Snyder’s piss poor track record, many feel this was another big bold brazen move that will blowup in Danny boy’s face yet again. and now that the deed has been done, we’ll see if he goes against all odds of his previous failures as well as beating the odds on completely smashing the MSRP of moving up 4 spots in a draft.. godspeed mr. snyder

      • Anonymous

        So this is what I’m supposed to be reduced to – if many believe it, it must be so?
        It’s a consensus therefore its true, (a la’ the anthropomorphic warmists)?

        I take no comfort in in being surrounded by bullshit.

        You need a franchise QB to thrive in this league. By all accounts RG3 was the guy & H&H whiffed. Period – end of discussion

        What makes it worse, from what I read, is that the problem wasn’t that they didn’t offer as good or better than the Redskins. The problem was that somehow they botched the offer so badly that they got outbid by a lesser offer.

        I’m so glad we have the genius Holmgren running the Browns. A real freaking master of the NFL.

        He has served only to lengthen our sentence in NFL purgatory.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          Sorry that you have such a feeling of loss, not everyone agrees with every decision.

          However you state,
          “By all accounts RG3 was the guy”

          That is a very strong and inaccurate statement.
          By MOST accounts Luck was/is the guy.
          There was not a unanimous agreement on the respective value of RG3.

          Was RG3 the reason that the Colts gave up Manning?

          There is never an accurate way to predict how a QB will perform on the next level, or for that matter on the next play.
          I like RG3, but not at that price.
          I am not an H&H guy, but I am glad that they did not give away the farm like Dangerous Dan.

        • Anonymous

          “they got outbid by a lesser offer” so by that logic wouldn’t the Rams be the ones who botched the deal?? this whole “Browns were too late” nonsense is ridiculous. they can’t even execute trades until Tuesday, the Browns obviously bowed out to the crazy insane precedent setting offer that Dangerous Dan made.

      • Believelander

        The bizarre element here is that 4, 22, and our 2013 number 1 selection is a more valuable than 6, 38, and their next two first rounders, aside from being one less pick. I am surprised that we couldnt just offer them like a 2nd rounder next season to put it over the top.

        Anyway, this doesn’t really influence the price of moving up. Everyone knows Dan Snyder is a loon. The Ricky Williams deal didn’t influence the price of futurr trade ups.

  • Anonymous

    I was also disappointed, but that is a bonkers offer, and a crazy time to make such a deal. Indy gets Luck, DC gets RG3, STL gets 2 first rounders for the next 3 years. Gotta get some ballers with 4, 22, 37.

  • jimkanicki

    your boy lull is actually predicting that he’ll be claiming credit for *speculation* on tannehill to cleveland talk.!/LullOnSports/statuses/178999313488289792

    not that it will happen mind you. that there will be talk about it. smh.

    know you like him and he sounds like a good guy on the radio. but non-expert-as-expert boorish analysis needs to be rooted out and exposed. !!


  • Leftyjsf

    With a “full arsenal” he leads us to victories against NE and New Orleans in the year he’s supposed to hold clip board. Year two, with no’s 1,2,3 starting rb’s out for most of year and starting WR’s consisting of rookie converted RB (Little) and a kick returner (Cribbs), he throws more TD’s than Int and take lumps for the City and we are ready to cut him for a Johnny come lately.

    tired of the Colt bashing. How good did Young and Manning do with crap weapons. Give us a healthy running game and I guarantee 7 wins at a minimum.

    Flynn equals Holcolmb (who I liked but not building for future). Tannyhill and Weeden are good but not franchise guys. Let’s build the D and the running game and play Cleveland football.

    • Leftyjsf

      7 wins at minimum last year to clarify…

      Listen Colt or no Colt, I’m a season ticket holder and want to win. If we would have got RGIII, draft Tannyhill or even Weeden, I’m on board and hoping for best.

  • Anonymous

    I just read a mock draft that has the Browns taking Russell Wilson in the 7th round. I know that height is the most important thing in the world to people who analyze the QB position but if you can play and throw the ball…well.

    Wilson is maybe 1 or 1.5 inches shorter than Colt but has a much better arm is more accurate and more mobile…and could fall to the 7th round because of his height???

    I know that I watched a lot of Wisconsin football this year (mainly to keep me out of last place in Cheddar Bay) but there is no way he is a 7th round talent. Not buying it.

    We know that Holmgren wanted RG3 and simply failed to outbid a team that he never could have because Snyder is crazy. He said he likes to take a QB almost every year and maybe you hit on one. I say take your chance late on this kid.

    • jimkanicki

      dan whalen loves russell wilson.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve seen Wilson play 5-6 times & he is NOT an NFL QB. Not even close.

      RG3 was the real deal & he’s gone.

      Flynn – I need to re-watch the Packers-Lions game. 480 yds & 6 TD’s deserves some attention.

      • Anonymous

        Why? I am just curious as to why you think Wilson is not.

        RG3 is over with and I am sad about that…I think Flynn is an upgrade (over what we have) but that is really risky.

        • Anonymous

          “Why? I am just curious as to why you think Wilson is not.”

          He reminds me very much of a smarter, shorter version of Troy Smith with better athleticism & leadership skills. Nice guy, great college athlete but not NFL QB material.

          I’ve heard him interviewed several times & if the football thing doesn’t work out he should run for governor.

          • Anonymous

            Fair enough.

            The sad part is the beat down Browns fan in me looks at Troy Smith as an upgrade to Colt.

            If he has a career like Seneca that would not be bad.

          • acto

            Weighing in for no real reason, I have doubts that Wilson will get a fair chance in the NFL, however I think he is one of the top five QB’s in the draft. (If he gets drafted.)
            He can make every NFL throw, he gets the ball away very quickly, he also runs well, with speed, vision and good moves.

  • Tbird57w

    We have no right side line…. Nothing else changes if we don’t solve that.

  • RedskinRick

    For the guy who’d rather have four players vs. one, you’ d rather have Mike Fannuci, Ken Stone, Mack Alston, Clifton McNiell and Jim Snowden rather than Hall of Fame safety Ken Houston? That’s what the Redskins once gave up to get Houston, and there are now folks here in Washington who think we should call the Rams and give them some more picks for RG3.
    I’d rather have quality over quantity.

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