Uni Watch Cleveland Indians Re-Name Game

by Cleveland Frowns on March 20, 2012

There are few conversations that are more potentially productive than conversations about the idea of the Cleveland Indians finally ditching the profoundly disgusting and embarrassing red sambo, Chief Wahoo. As it turns out, just such a conversation is taking place at one of the finest sites (with one of the finest commenting communities) on the web, Uni Watch.

More specifically, it’s a conversation (and contest) about re-naming the Cleveland Indians and the Washington Redskins in which Wahoo naturally plays a big part. When it comes to Cleveland, I prefer to focus on Wahoo, because the team name can at least be conceived (or re-conceived) to honor Northeast Ohio’s rich native tradition in a way that Wahoo never could. Plus, Wahoo is much more likely to be changed than the team name, anyway.

Anyway, before you head to Uni Watch, a few essential points on the conversation:

1) There’s at least an argument that Wahoo is significantly more offensive than the name Redskins, which can at least be conceived as an inoffensively descriptive term (like the way white people are called white people, black people, black people), and is a term that natives once commonly used to describe themselves. Of course, natives would never use an image like Wahoo to depict themselves, and this distinction might well explain why the Redskins haven’t been cursed as badly as Cleveland has by Wahoo (though there’s certainly something going on in Washington, too).

2) Natives would never use an image like Wahoo to depict themselves because Wahoo is the equivalent of a sambo caricature, created in 1947, when such demeaning imagery was common in all major American animation houses and served largely to reinforce Jim Crow laws and Jim Crow etiquette.

More specifically, the images serve to dehumanize so as to legitimize patterns of prejudice, discrimination, and segregation by their exaggeration of certain features of the “other” race, that reinforces the idea that the “other” is something less than human.

I’m surprised that the Jim Crow connection hasn’t come up yet in the conversation at Uni Watch. Whether or not one is prepared to agree that Chief Wahoo is racist, it’s impossible to argue that it’s not a caricature of a minority race. It’s also inarguable that this caricature of a minority race was created in 1947, at a time when caricatures of minority races were popularly used to inflame prejudice and justify discriminatory laws and behavior.

3) Finally, the story of itinerant native warrior Logan is especially accessible and compelling. Logan lived in Pennsylvania and Ohio. His Indian name was Tachnedorus, but was called Logan because of his friendship with a Quaker named James Logan.

The story goes that:

Logan remained friendly with the whites until a group of settlers murdered his wife and family in 1774. Logan then sought revenge in a series of raids throughout the frontier. He also joined the Shawnee chief Cornstalk against the British in Lord Dunmore’s War. When the Indian forces were defeated at the Battle of Point Pleasant, Cornstalk knew that the Indians must make peace. A meeting was held at Chillicothe, which Logan refused to attend. Instead he sent a message that was read and later reprinted in newspapers throughout the colonies. Logan’s statement, which follows, has since been cited as one of the finest examples of Native American literature.

“I appeal to any white man to say if he ever entered Logan’s cabin hungry and he gave him not meat; if he ever came cold and naked he clothed him not. During the course of the last long and bloody war, Logan remained idle in his cabin, an advocate for peace. Such was my love for the whites that my countrymen pointed as I passed and said, ‘Logan is a friend of the white man.’ I had even thought to have lived with you but for the injuries of one man. Colonel Cresap, the last spring, in cold blood and unprovoked, murdered all the relatives of Logan, not even sparing his wives and children. There runs not a drop of my blood in the veins of any living creature.

“This calls on me for revenge, I have sought it; I have killed many; I have grown glutted by my vengeance. For my country I rejoice at the beams of peace; but do not harbor any thought that mine is the joy of fear. Logan never felt fear. He will not turn his heel to save his life. Who is there to mourn for Logan? Not one.”

Cresap was later found innocent of the murders and Logan continued his raids on the frontier throughout the American Revolution. In 1780, Logan was murdered by another Indian (possibly his nephew) near Detroit. The once mighty Mingo leader died a bitter man due to his tragic personal losses and because he was unable to stop the whites from taking Indian lands.

Ki-Yi-Waugh-Woop! Wahoo baseball!

Alright, make sure to check out the conversation at Uni Watch. I’ll post some highlights here later. Hope everyone has a decent Tuesday.

UPDATE:

Tribe Town: Hitler’s favorite baseball team is back, and as potentially slightly above average as ever

Cleveland Indians President Mark Shapiro: “Chief Wahoo isn’t going anywhere.”

  • Anonymous

    If the lawyer thing doesn’t work out, I will have a lucrative MMA career channeling the enmity that boils over inside me every time I think of the way you assholes cling to this thing.

    Of course I’d have a lucrative MMA career even without that, but you know what I’m saying.

  • Anonymous

    Spiders. Spiders. Spiders.

    The merchandise sells itself…every 8 year old boy in America would want a hat…and it allows us to honor our history using a former name…of course we could use Rustlers…but now I am going way back.

    • Anonymous

      Second. I suggested this one, per a suggestion from my brother, years ago.

    • Anonymous

      Then on opening day with the new Spiders name we can acknowledge the fact that the most famous former Spider was ours and put Cy Young and his name somewhere in the damn ballpark for everyone to know that he was Cleveland.

    • kjn

      I always liked Cleveland Buckeyes, after the old negro league team, but that probably infringes on OSU a little too much.

      So Spiders it is.

      • Anonymous

        Plus I really hate to have to start cheering for the Buckeyes. I feel like I would have to throw in an obligatory, “No relation,” a la Buster and Babs Bunny every time I said, “Go Bucks!”

    • Anonymous

      i’m down with spiders too.

      • Anonymous

        never known a woman to be down with spiders. i mean, I can actually tell how big a spider is from the pitch and tone of my wife’s scream.

        • Anonymous

          I refuse to kill spiders. When they come inside I catch them and then release them back outside. Anybody/anything that kills mosquitos is a friend of mine.

          • Anonymous

            We all need to do this. Our bat population may be in real trouble.

            http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/deadly_white-nose_syndrome_fou_1.html

          • acto

            Save the bats kids. The average bat eats 2/3rds it’s weight in mosquitoes ever night.
            I built a bat dwelling on the side of my house and I never have to worry about mosquitoes even though I have a pond in my back yard.
            SAVE THE BATS!

          • Anonymous

            I’m definitely down with bats, too. Done and done.

          • acto

            p_4 is tough.
            If you wish, I could bring you some tarantulas on my next trip to the frozen tundra. However during the winter in Cleveland. August 15th through July 4th, you will have to keep them against your skin so they do not freeze.

          • Anonymous

            Cuddling with tarantulas sounds a little creepy acto; also I feel like they would scare my dog, junior, and he has first dibs on p-cuddling. But it’s sweet of you to offer.

          • acto

            c_p4,
            I was only joking, however, congratulations on figuring out the best sleeping arrangements possible.
            Give my best to Junior.
            I have Charley, Emma and Roooodi, the amazing dog trio to snuggle up with every night.
            Long ago when I was a college student a woman who came out to spend the day at my house on the river said, “I am not sharing a bed with dogs”.
            I suggested that she sober up before she made the drive home, or sleep in the guest room.
            Dogs come first!

          • Anonymous

            lol junior is *such a bad dog. he could not be luckier to have me as an owner. he’s a blue tick coonhound, btw.

          • Cliff_cintula

            HooRay for Junior,
            Thank you for the photo, I love dogs. .
            My goal in life is to set up a very large shelter for bad dogs.
            (I live like a pauper, but I have saved a lot, snagged a few sponsors and I am close to starting.)
            Junior’s breed is rather odd and possibly not politically correct.
            You should call him a “Differently Pigmented (not colored) Possibly Parasitic Insect Laden Racial Epithet Deleted Hound”

    • Anonymous

      Right on. Always dug the Cleveland Spiders as a perfectly acceptable alternate.

    • Anonymous

      How about Dustlers? Since Cleve is no longer in the Rust Belt, but the Dust Belt… Spiders i can live with, only because Cy Young played for them!

      • Anonymous

        How bout Cleveland Rusters? I like the idea of taking a derogatory thing and turning it into something proud. I mean, Burning River Pale Ale is pretty good (for a pale ale – more of a stout fan myself) and things have worked out okay re:Great Lakes Brewing so far.

        [edit] Incidentally, if it were possible to make the Indians name & logo from something derogatory into something proud I would be all about that. Just haven’t seen any good solutions yet beyond keeping the name and having only letter “C”s as logos. [/edit]

    • Anonymous

      I like the name Spiders too and think it would be relly cool, but the season of 1899 is probably why we can’t go back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1899_Cleveland_Spiders_season
      Granted that was over a century ago, and it’s not like we aren’t currently cursed.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah that is an ugly season…all of the paste eaters who are constantly moaning about Dolan should read that and realize an owner can be much worse…you know like Lerner.

        Let’s be honest though…the curse of Chief Wahoo is much worse than this…although 20-134 is kind of funny.

  • kjn

    “Wahoo is also exponentially more offensive than the name Redskins…”

    The karmic resolution of the RG3 derby clearly illustrated this point.

    • Believelander

      Thanks. We hadn’t talked about it yet today. Time to crack open a new MD 20/20.

  • Bluejacket

    Excellent piece. Your take on this issue is one of the reasons I follow this blog. As a kid growing up in the Cleveland area, I never understood why something so offensive got a pass. A similar caricature of any other ethnic group would never have been tolerated. That leering smile isn’t comical, it’s sad and shameful. Time to put it into the dust bin of history.

    A couple of additional comments:

    1) Redskins: Name has two origins. The Beothuk of Newfoundland (who died out early in the 18th c.) painted their bodies with red ocher found in pits on islands in Notre Dame Bay. Likewise, the British use to pay their allies and scouts for each piece of “red skin” brought in…meaning scalps and ears. It’s a bad name, just as offensive and it needs to go.

    2) Logan was not an Iroquois chief. He was the leader of a group of remnant factions of different bands that had come together from different tribes. In the historical era, Ohio was basically devoid of tribes. The Erie had been cleared out from the Iroquois. Later, the Delaware, Tuscararwas, Mohican, Miami moved into open country. The Shawnee came up from the south and were given the area around Chillicothe by the Miami to act as a buffer against the Iroquois. Later, the Wyandot came in…a remnant band of Huron and whatever else was still left alive. They were all forcibly removed around 1824 to scraggly lands out West.

    Thanks for helping to keep this issue alive. Yes, we all have many pressing worries that we face each day, but this is one we can correct relatively easily.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks and thanks for the correction. Post fixed.

      His wiki is a good read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan

    • manc

      The story I always heard the name of My Beloved Redskins was that it was a riff on Red Sox, as the Skins played a year in Fenway before moving to DC in 1937. Before that the team was the Boston Braves, as they played in Braves baseball park. Pretty common for early NFL teams to appropriate the nicknames of the more the more popular sport at the time, baseball.

      Also, Snyder owns the rights to the name “Washington Warriors”…apparently he was looking at acquiring an Arena League team about 10 years ago and still holds the rights. Some have speculated he’s hedging his bets in case of he’s compelled to change the name.

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      it’s a fascinating historical time. highly recommend The Frontiersman, Allen Eckert. all about simon kenton and tecumseh and ohio. over 600 pages… and you’ll eat it up in two weeks or less.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    So am I to never partake in this establishment ever again?

    Not sure if the place exists outside of Orange County, California, but I do enjoy the joint.

    I wonder if Acanthocybium solandri is offended by the more common vernacular “Wahoo”.

    • Anonymous

      This is what I think of when I hear Wahoo and think of something besides the Indians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wahoo_(SS-238)

      A little bit of WW2 history regarding a sister ship to Cleveland’s own USS Cod.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        That’s an awesome story that I’ve never heard about, thanks a million. They could make a movie about the 4th patrol. It reads like Sherman marauding through the south.

        Bored with using torpedoes? Fuck it, surface and we’ll sink those bastards with the deck guns. Deck guns jammed?

        “Later that day, Wahoo sighted a 100 ton trawler and again attacked with her deck guns. When all three of her 20 mm guns jammed, the Wahoo went alongside the riddled trawler and the sailors of Wahoo hurled homemade Molotov cocktails (gifts from the U.S. Marines at Midway Atoll) onto the trawler. Wahoo departed, leaving the fishing boat wrecked, spouting flame and smoke.

        Commander Dudley W Morton was a certified BAMF.

        • Anonymous

          Ya, the Wahoo has an illustrious and tragic history – all too common a theme when it comes to war… and sports, come to think of it.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOi3yAdqTYA PittsburghisforManLovers

      There’s one right by my house in Encinitas. Can’t say I’m a fan. Seasoning on the meat is almost non-existent. Huge portions for all of the surfer type dudes, though. But yes, you can never partake of this establishment again.

    • Perry

      Yeah, Wahoo Fish Taco is a chain, they’re all over Colorado where I live. But they don’t use any Native American imagery, not sure what the source of the name is. All their imagery is surfer/snowboard dude stuff.

  • Anonymous

    More ideas:

    The Cleveland Doctors/Docs (modern, forward-looking)

    The Cleveland Carriers (ore carrier logo normally, aircraft carrier special logo for Memorial Day, July 4, Labor Day, maybe even just general away games)

    The Cleveland Submarines (Cause we have the Cod. Their title chances shall surely surface someday!)

    The Cleveland [insert term for salt mining/miners?] (eh, running out of creative juice here. Apologies apologies, sorry sorry.]

    • acto

      How about the Cleveland Bloggers?
      The mascot could be a fat guy lying on his couch drinking beer and eating various brands of fast food.

      • acto

        Think of all of the marketing opportunities….

        • Anonymous

          It’s so relatable!

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        Or a bald guy doing a handstand on an Akron Aeros dugout.

        • Anonymous

          Impossibly lithe bald guy.

          Also, I vote no for this mascot.

        • http://www.redright88.com/ TitusPullo94

          I have to say, having seen it in person it is a rather impressive site.

          Although the post-headstand choice of Miller Lite necessitated a couple point deduction from the judge’s card.

        • Believelander

          I hear the mascot can do the YMCA dance with his legs while doing that drunken headstand.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I haven’t seen it live, but really, would it surprise you?

    • kjn

      The Cleveland Frackers?

      • Anonymous

        “Hey! Hey! Hey! Let’s go frack! Hey! Hey! Hey! Let’s go frack! It’s job-creation tiiiime now!”

        (reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmJ9OEfldqY )

      • acto

        kjn,
        Congratulations, you just won!

  • Anonymous

    Now that we’ve solved the whole “our baseball team’s mascot is horribly racist” problem, let’s get to work on buying back the Browns. It looks to be a very productive week in Frownstown.

  • Anonymous

    Keep the name, change the logo.

    • Anonymous

      I am convinced that this is what they are slowly doing…I really thought the script I hats from a few years back were going to take over…then they brought back the block C. They have made Chief Wahoo smaller and you see much less of it around Progressive Field as they use the block C for a lot of stuff now. I think they are just slowly phasing it out and trying to avoid the media firestorm of just dropping it one day. The people in that front office are brilliant and if we had even a little bit of that in Berea…

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        i liked the script I caps. it’s my cleveland cap of choice.

      • Anonymous

        Yep, you really have to look hard to find him on the players these days, usually just on the arm. Soon he’ll be gone and nobody will even notice, especially if they are winning. I too love the I, simple and classy.

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      i thought the feller logo would have been great. but there’s a some rule about not profiting of the likeness of deceased players that prevents this. (it’s why you couldnt find a rockafeller cap.) cant say i hate that rule. but yet..

      • Believelander

        Hey whoa whoa, they’re not “annihilated” so much as “irrevocably doomed”. Which makes it….

        Wait, no, still bad.

      • Anonymous

        Good idea. Nice logo. They really should end the ban on the use of important dead people.

  • Victorbarnes55

    Get over it already. No one associates some racist ideology with Chief Wahoo dude. In 15 years, we are all going to be chicks and I can only assume you will be leading the way burning your bra.

    • Anonymous

      “Get over it already. No one associates some racist ideology with Chief Wahoo dude.” I thought the same thing when I was 15. Would you feel comfortable wearing a Chief Wahoo cap on an Indian Reservation? When I answered this question for myself is about the time that I realized that maybe just maybe the Chief isn’t as harmless as I originally suspected.

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        i had the same delayed epiphany except mine might have happened in my 40s. once you get it, though, you really get it.

      • Anonymous

        “Would you feel comfortable wearing a Chief Wahoo cap on an Indian Reservation?”

        Exactly.

      • Anonymous

        Down here in NM there are a fair share of native americans, one of whom is a new friend of mine. I was pretty red-faced myself admitting that I’m from Cleveland and yeah I root for the Indians when it came up in conversation. Obviously he didn’t crucify me for it, but I got kind of a : / look for it.

    • Anonymous

      Well at least that took awhile today. Progress.

      Anyway, wrong. Only a–holes and idiots don’t associate racist ideology with Wahoo (once having received a basic education on the subject as above). You’d do much better to get over one or the other of those, I promise.

      • Anonymous

        That’s true. Any A-hole or Idiot would not want to go around in a diminished state. He would want to embrace demented status as a confirmed, committed and Two Fisted member.

        I’m gonna go play Indians now.

    • Believelander

      Just in time for the F***face spring Olympics, Victorbarnes55 wins the final 2012 qualifier.

    • acto

      Victor,
      While I appreciate your fervor, when you see a bra some day you will understand that there is not a lot of damage to be done by burning it.

      I was also wondering why you want to be a woman in 15 years.
      Please explain….

  • Blue27

    I agree that Wahoo is an insensitive and racist Mascot and as Native American, I have never purchased anything with its likeness. That being said I think the “Redskins”is the most racist name in sports. I dont equate it to the same as “black person” or “white person”, rather more like the “N” word or any other demeaning cultural name, it is not endearing, rather insulting. Its really sad, that being said, I appreciate you bringing to light something that has been under our noses as a society for decades, yet remains an injustice in plain sight. It makes me sick that team in Washington got RG3.

  • Coachie Ballgames

    Frowns is right, the focus should be on getting rid of Wahoo. Put aside the fact that the team did NOT wear Wahoo hats for great swathes of their history (including when they were most successful), and put aside the PC debate. Wahoo must go on purely aesthetic grounds.

    There are 30 MLB teams, only three teams don’t use a letter or interlocking letters on their primary hats; Toronto, Baltimore and Cleveland. So a vast majority of teams have figured out that letters work better on caps than cartoons. Baltimore’s return to the cartoon bird on their caps is a goofy move, just like keeping Wahoo on the caps is a goofy move.

    And the top ten teams in MLB by merch all use letters on their caps, not cartoons.
    New York Yankees
    Boston Red Sox
    Los Angeles Dodgers
    Philadelphia Phillies
    Chicago Cubs
    St. Louis Cardinals
    Chicago White Sox
    Atlanta Braves
    Minnesota Twins
    Detroit Tigers

    • acto

      I am not trying to argue Coachie, but do you see anything wrong with the first name on your list?

  • Anonymous

    You have my full support on this issue.

    I will say that I went to an institution with a significant Native American population (read about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lewis_College), and it amazed me to see my classmates from the various tribes embrace the Wahoo logo, along with basically any other depiction of Native Americans in popular culture. I understand that people might use that as justification for continuing to use an obviously offensive depiction, but I do think it should be discontinued out of respect for the diversity of native cultures and the genocide that occured in the formation of this country.

    Baseball, MLB, and the Cleveland Indians organization will probably always be my #1 as a fan, and I recognize its tradition and baseball’s unique bond with its history that makes it so hesitant to change. It will be a great step for our culture when we can acknowledge the wrongs of the past, and do what we can to to fix the present.

  • Anonymous

    Frowns, thanks for continuing to push this issue. Its time is now, or at least very soon.

    I was a student at Miami University in 1996, when the decision was
    made to discard the Redskins nickname in favor of the bland but
    non-offensive “Redhawks”. The change was met with apathy by the student body, as are all things concerning sports at MU. There was resistance among alumni. There were a few folks on campus wearing T-shirts that said “I am and always will be a Redskin” (imagine substituting a different racial slur in place of Redskins and putting it on a T-shirt), but before I even graduated the chorus against the change was barely audible. It took a lot of guts to make the change, I think MU was part of the first wave of schools to do so. The good news is people adapt, and most very quickly realized how narrow-minded (at best) and racist (at worst) they looked continuing to champion the nickname.

    I think the same thing would happen in Cleveland. For a few years you’ll still have folks wearing the old Sambo caricature, but they will eventually be the minority, if they are not already. At least when the mascot is officially terminated these folks will only be damaging their own image, instead of the image of an entire sports organization or city taking the damage by continuing to resist the need to free themselves of a decision made 80 years ago to adpot a racist mascot image, when no person should accept such a thing in today’s society.

    Of course, a few winning seasons or a championship with the new nickname would go a long way towards burying the logo.

    • Believelander

      The nice thing is, since our mascot is already completely unrelated to the logo, that’s one less thing that needs to change for a seamless transition. Slider is beloved by the people.

      • Anonymous

        what the hell is Slider supposed to be, anyway? He looks like someone who sneezed himself inside out.

    • acto

      “thatsfine”,
      Thank you for the story, that must have been an odd transition.
      When did they change it to The Hurricanes?

      • Anonymous

        The Hurricane name change came a few years later…. I believe it came about as a tribute to a popular fraternity hazing ritual involving an oscillating fan. However, I cannot confirm this because I chose not to participate in the Greek system.

        • Anonymous

          I can confirm. The Hurricane usually fell somewhere in between the Elephant walk and Delt diner. Incidentally, I was an incoming freshman when the change was made. Unfortunately, I took the pro-Redskin/the world is becoming a bunch of PC sissies/where does it end? side of the argument in many a English class debate. I’m glad to say I got out, saw the world, and was able to change my mind.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s be the Beachwood Jewboys.

    O.K.?

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      If we do that, we can get Mel Gibson to infuse some badly needed capital into the organization as a goodwill gesture.

      • Anonymous

        Good idea. We can ask Jesse Jackson too. I’m sure he’d provide funds for “Hymietown”.

  • Anonymous

    There’s nothing wrong with being an Indian. The name is evocative of authentic warrior virtue undiminished by the conventions and hypocrisy of European manners.

    • acto

      rgrunds,
      Where did the name Indian come from?
      What happened to these indigenous people?
      Where are most of them now in our current balance of power and SES status?
      Why are you jumping in on the wrong side with your normally refined and intellectual viewpoint?

      • Anonymous

        I had a fiance who was an Abanaki Indian. She was quite magnificent.

        If you want to know what happened to them, ask our own Eugenicist on the front of the $20.00 bill, Andrew Jackson. They were treated terribly, in the tradition of Adolf Hitler and the Turks against the Armenians.

        However, I do get sick of people over-investing in racial identity. It’s tiresome and transitory. There was a time when American negroes would kick your ass if you referred to them as “black”. Now it’s the militant imperative.

    • Anonymous

      I tend to agree with this.

    • Anonymous

      I still don’t understand why they changed my Marquette Warriors to the Golden Eagles. The logo was proud and in no way derogatory. Even as a young co-ed I related to its strength and honor. Too much knee-jerk reaction. Many American Indians are uncomfortable with the fact that casinos and alcoholism are becoming the face of their people.

      • Anonymous

        They adopted “Golden Eagles” to affirm the qualities of gay men.

        It was quite progressive and tolerant of Marquette.

        • Anonymous

          Even the cheerleaders were emasculated by the name change. Read Adam Carolla’s “In 50 years we’ll all be chicks.”

          Or were you the one that told me about it months ago? There’s a reason we have 2 distinct genders, or did.

          • Anonymous

            huh? what’s emasculating about birds of prey?

            and for argument’s sake, a male/female gender binary isn’t universal as you might think, historically or culturally.

          • Anonymous

            I think the real question here is what was so wrong with “warrior”. The golden eagle to me goes about his business as a bird of prey, doing what nature intended as a means to sustenance. On the other hand, a warrior is a special force that goes above and beyond for greater things at greater personal risk for his kind.

            More badass, in other words.

          • Anonymous

            Gotcha.

            Although I would argue that you’re undervaluing the inherent coolness of Golden Eagles. They can kill wolves, which is pretty badass in and of itself.

          • Anonymous

            Imagine if the powers that be decided that the “Browns” may be too strong, and changed it to the Cleveland Beiges. It would suck it little out of it, no?

          • Anonymous

            Beige is the color of Pat Shurmer’s offense.

          • Anonymous

            No no no. Shurmur’s offense is a splotchy off-white.

          • Anonymous

            I thought it was eggshell. Somebody should ask Pat.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Golden Eagles displaying badassery.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz7FFlFy8eM

            (not for the squeamish).

          • Anonymous

            Holy crapola!

            Even more badass than the honey badger.

        • Anonymous

          Please enlighten me. What do golden eagles have to do with gay men?

          • Anonymous

            “ooooh! It made me feel just delicious to watch that Golden Eagle Kyle thr-r-r-ust across the goal line and penetrate the defense in one..long…virile, stroke.

            There. Get it? I don’t like your tone….

          • Anonymous

            I’m still not getting it. It reads the same to me if you put any other [adjective] [noun] in place of Golden Eagle.

            That said, color commentators would be much more entertaining if they followed your style guide.

          • Anonymous

            O.K. I just thought “Golden” hyperbolized the masculine notions of eagle. Remember the scene in “La Cage au Folle” where the house boy wanted to be renamed “Spartacus-Adonis”?

          • Anonymous

            naw man, they’re called Golden Eagles because they have golden plumage on their head. It’s like a black bear or a red fox.

      • kjn

        Cause Jesuits are badass.

  • Anonymous

    ok. O.K. How ’bout this one…

    “The Cleveland Corrupt”

    a propos to our county administration. That name will always be appropriate.

    • Anonymous

      While that’s got alliteration going for it, I think it sounds a little off.

      How about “The Cleveland Racketeers”?

      • Anonymous

        Cleveland Food Stamp Traffickers

        • Anonymous

          “Cuyahoga Contract Skimmers”

          • Anonymous

            Oh I like this one. This is the best.

        • acto

          Frownie,
          That is insensitive and politically incorrect.
          It should be Clevelandians Sequestering Sustenance via Social Services.

  • wileyfox

    The day they do away with Chief Wahoo is the day I am no longer an Indians fan. That logo means everything to me. As a kid I loved going to the ballgame and seeing Wahoo high on top of Municipal Stadium. I was and am proud of the Chief Wahoo logo. I proudly wear it on my hat and Indians shirts. The script I is a total embarrassment. BTW I have Indian blood in me. Wileyfox

  • Victorbarnes55

    you guys simply cannot be serious? I’m the asshole? Nice. So, I’m walking down the street last week. Literally just walking, not saying anything or even humming to myself. I walk past what appears to be a bum…er gentlemen without a home….and he calls me a “white M-Fer” etc for passing him on the sidewalk. I’m jewish..the OTHER white by the bye.

    Now, what I ought to have done was an about-face, asked him what he just said/called me, and punched him square in the face. I then pictured myself on Phil Donaue being asked why I punched this dude. My retort would be “why would I not!!?” If the roles were precisely reversed and he cracked me, no one would be asking him why he did that. Quite the opposite; i.e. saying “good for you” etc.

    There is all sorts of racist/bigoted ideologies all around us no doubt…..most we breathe life into by virtue of calling them racist. I would feel comfortable about wearing the hat on the reservation…..is that the only place indians/native americans are located?!? Hell, I AM a native american! St. Paddy’s day depicts irish guys as drunks…..or fighting irish…or small midgets with red hair. C’mon.

    You guys want to believe that an indian or a red skin or a fighting irishman, etc is a racist symbol? Fine. You breathe life into and keep racism alive and well. See you at the ladies tees…..hey!- they have those!?…..That’s sexist!!

    • Anonymous

      By identifying racism, we create racism. Got it. Makes sense.

      Thank God no one ever pointed out that whole slavery thing, or we’d be in a whole heap of trouble.

      • Anonymous

        Since you’re both Jewish and Native American, I am interesting in if you would be comfortable wearing this image on a hat?

        http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Poster-for-Eternal-Jew-Ewiger-Jude.jpg

        Would you wear it to a synagogue?

        What are the differences between that image and Chief Wahoo? I am honestly curious.

        • Anonymous

          HEY, remember “Scot Gas”? They had a picture of a little guy in a Tam saying “Thr-r-r-r-r-ifty”.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t but as a proud Scotsman I am offended.

          • Anonymous

            Be quiet and day wot yer tilt.

          • Anonymous

            Here, buy my book. “Light Nights and Wet Feet, A Walk Through Modern Scotland”.

            I need readers badly.

      • Anonymous

        Wow. That’s a really succinct description of Robert Mugabe’s domestic policies.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, it’s amazing how racism existing in one place and historical context doesn’t preclude it from existing elsewhere.

          • Anonymous

            Read “World on Fire” by Amy Chua. It shows how economic life is an act of human character and what happens when a market dominant minority (Chinese in Phillipines/Indonesia, Indians in Kenya/Whites in S. Africa-Rhodesia, Tutsis in Rwanda) is displaced by a democratic election. The disadvantaged majority goes on a rampage and is run by a new minority within it’s own ethnic majority. The new minority exploits it’s own people just as badly as the old regime, but is tolerated because the oppression is coming from people who look like them.

          • Anonymous

            Sounds interesting, I will check it out. Economics is definitely a powerful factor in racial politics.

          • Anonymous

            It’s a great book. Well organized with a limited number of fundamental principles.

        • Anonymous

          Which would be at least somewhat relevant if this guy was a former Rhodesian farmer. And this happened in Harare.

    • Anonymous

      Paraphrased for other readers:

      “I’m the asshole? Well you’ll certainly change your mind about that when I relate an anecdote about how someone once called ME a nasty name. Also I’m not *really* white so actually I’m persecuted too and it is my firm belief that persecuted people can’t be assholes, probably because I don’t spend much time being introspective instead of angry.

      Praise me for not responding to mean words with naked violence! You know if some homeless dude committed assault on a white guy they’d be all like ‘pshh whatever man we don’t care about what happens to whiteys’.

      Thinking about racism creates racism – my assertion of being a native american allows me to definitively pronounce it not a problem. You’re welcome, everyone who feels differently. You don’t have to worry about this subject ever again!

      I conflate women willingly participating in wet t-shirt contests with entrenched persecution of races and sexes by governments and/or other races/sexes!”

    • kjn

      So one guy once called you an insulting name and you wanted to punch him. Imagine how you’d feel if for you entire life millions of people regularly wore an insulting image of you.

  • Victorbarnes55

    Oh and Frowns, totally agree with everything else you write…especially about the Browns, Lerner, Grossi, et al. Right on with that one bro, er I mean pal.

  • Akira5652

    Frown, I love your blog, but I have to disagree with you here. As an Indians fan that has lived all of his life outside of Ohio, I can firmly state that nobody really cares that we have Chief Wahoo as our logo–or anything else related to a fictitious Native American. The Indians are the Cleveland Indians–nothing else. And Chief Wahoo? Just a smiling Cleveland Indian, and not a racist caricature.

    Basically, regardless of whether it is right or wrong to have the logo, the issue of the Chief seems to be one that a few Indians’ fans have.

    But is it wrong to have the Chief? You keep stating that it’s a racist cartoon, which, somehow, is offensive to Native Americans. In defending the Wahoo image, all I can say is that the team’s logo is just that–a baseball team’s logo. Wahoo, as far as I know, has not been used to depict actual Native Americans; nor is he part of any lasting tradition of racial humor. His likeness is not used for anything else except for the baseball team. Your references to Little Black Sambo aren’t really fair, as negative black stereo-types were far more present in popular culture, and were also present in other forms of popular art other than cartoon caricature. What’s racist in your evidence is racist not necessarily because Sambo’s color and facial features are exaggerated but because Sambo comes from a popular culture that viewed African-Americans’ as inferior and included other harmful character traits and personalities, in addition. You can say the same happened to Native Americans also, but Chief Wahoo–as far as I know–has never been used as a symbol against Native Americans. He simply abides–like the Dude–on hats, uniforms, and t-shirts. He isn’t part of any racism focused against Native Americans.

    Does his facial feature have exagerations? Yes, but, again, he is a cartoon character that is part of Cleveland’s popular culture and not a lasting national symbol of a by-gone era of yellow press’ cartoons. He isn’t associated with any particular Native American person or tribe. His use is only for a baseball team.

    To state that the image is racist, is to state that Chief Wahoo is harmful to others’ perceptions of Native Americans. Chief Wahoo lives in Cleveland, shows up for six months of the year, and then gets put away until Spring training. His use by the team isn’t an issue, as he is a fictitious character not based in any reality. Chief Wahoo is here in 2012 not because he was somehow left-over from a racist bygone era but, rather, because his use and imagery aren’t racist. He is only the symbol of the team and that’s it. We aren’t depicting Native Americans with Chief Wahoo, we are depicting the Cleveland Indians.

    • Believelander

      The image is racist. It is the logo of a group with the moniker of the “Indians”. Your argument is bizarre.

      • Anonymous

        as a person of Indian origin (a real Indian, not people that Chris Columbus confused as Indians), i find it offensive that the team is named after my ethnicity. especially after how historically bad they’ve been for the past 64 years, gives my people a bad name. DERP!

        i don’t really have a preference one way or the other, but it seems to me that both Frowns and Akira make solid arguments.. now maybe we could play well and get some nationally televised games during the season and playoffs and Frownie could have a national forum. come on Chief Wahoo, let’s have one last good run!

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

          The entire basis of this discussion is that the Indians won’t ever win until they get rid of Chief Wahoo. Or Larry Dolan. I still can’t decide who’s contributing more to this annual fail.

        • Bryan

          Maybe the solution is to change chief Wahoo to a picture of a guy from India. My wife is Indian, and she loves the fact that I root for the “Browns” and the Indians. When I went to India with her this winter, we had a running joke that I should get off the plane with an Indians jersey on. I didn’t have the balls to do it, but I would do it if they changed the mascot to an Indian guy. Maybe a cricket player?

          (PS: for those readers with NO sense of humor, this is intended as an “absurdist” post)

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOi3yAdqTYA PittsburghisforManLovers

    RIP Asian Chipmunk. I have never actively hated another Asian outside of the despots as much as your chubby cheeks. May your eternal reward for all the dirty play be a neverending case of the fiery runs from rotten KimChee and a constant loop of K-pop. Good riddance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1qnV55LUFVM

  • Anonymous

    I think they should change the name to the Tribe, since everyone calls them the Tribe anyway. Cant remember when and where I saw it, but some Cleveland blogger posted about this awhile back and even had a uniform concept and everything. I would think Tribe would be much less offensive than “Indians”, and Indians really is pretty dumb when you think about it. I know there are several college teams who changed their names from “Indians” to the “Tribe” including William & Mary in Virginia.

    Cleveland Tribe doesnt quite roll off the tongue, but it does allow them to change the name while still maintaining their “heritage”. The Spiders were after all a National League team and Spiders kinda sounds like a minor league club to me.

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