Uni Watch Indians Re-Name Results (Part 1)

by Cleveland Frowns on April 23, 2012

A few weeks back we wrote about the contest they’re having over at Uni Watch to re-name and re-brand the Cleveland Indians. The first batch of results was posted on Saturday and while one of the concepts is genuinely horrifying, folks have come up with some interesting ideas.

Relatedly, some good work by Frowns regulars (including Kanicki and NeedsFoodBadly) and some other folks in addressing some profoundly warped views on Chief Wahoo and the Indians name at a Waiting for Next Year post on the subject here.

Also, a Frownie Challenge: Whoever comes up with the best idea for a penalty for a proposed civil statute banning any mention of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish logo (a drawing of a leprechaun made by Irish people) in any purportedly serious discussion about the merits of maintaining Chief Wahoo (a racial caricature of Native Americans made by white people) gets two rounds on us at Thursday’s draft party. Free speech has its limits, of course. You can’t yell “fire!” in a crowded theater, etc., so.

Alright, we’ve got an Xs and Os with the Bros draft special coming from Rod here shortly, and some other draft things coming up this week. Hope everyone’s gets off to a decent start in the meantime.

(UPDATE: More on the issue at NBC’s Hardball Talk.)

  • http://bryanjoiner.com/ Bryan Joiner

    Cleveland Clowns

    Clowns’d

  • manc

    Completely unrelated comment. Lerner’s beloved Aston Villa FC is in the relegation zone in the EPL. The man’s a lousy owner in two different countries!

    I guess the above has something to do with the draft.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Amazing. Can someone please explain what it means to be “in the relegation zone”? How close are we to glory here?

      • manc

        Bottom three teams in the Premier League standings go down a level to whats called the Championship. Top teams in that level move up. It’d be like the Royals or Pirates moving down to the International League, and the Columbus Clippers move up.

        One of the things I really like about European soccer is the movement of teams from level to level. REALLY provides an incentive for teams to commit resources, try to remain competitive throughout the season. Nobody really tanks, at least not blatantly.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Got it, thx. So how close is Villa to relegation right now.

          • manc

            Just barely safely, like 15th out of 20 teams, but only by a point or two. Could easily go down.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            How many games left? Who do we play? All of a sudden I’m all kinds of fired up for some footy.

          • The Cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs

            Blackburn may be the closest team to them, but they have one less game and play two top tier teams.
            Bolton proposes the biggest threat as they wander over to Villa Park tomorrow. However, even if Bolton should pick up the three points, they would still require at least another win and tie to pass AVFC.
            Not only that, but Wigan and QPR would need to surpass them. So they’re not out of the woods yet, but it would take a free fall a la Atlanta/Boston MLB 2011 for Aston Villa to be relegated

          • Petefranklin

            I’ve totally dropped the ball by not fading Villa. The whole organization will be happy to stay near the bottom of the standings 15th place, as long as they dont get relegated. There was an article about this on Espn.com/soccer/english premier last Friday or Saturday I believe.Search- relief short lived for villa, Fans are pissed there too, imagine that.

          • http://www.redright88.com/ TitusPullo94

            Villa is 5 points clear with four games left to play.

            They Bolton, which is one of the teams behind them (by 6 points), tomorrow so if they take points out of that game they are safe (3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie).

            It’s pretty unlikely at this point that they will be relegated, but by no means has it been a successful year for the squad.

          • manc

            Thanks, I knew it was something like that. Villa should be way better than they are year to year, given resources, stadia, tradition etc.

            QPR baby!

          • http://twitter.com/musicman06 Chris Music

            http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5901

            It’s going to be tough. With only 4 games left, and five points away from one of those spots, they probably would have to lose out. 3 points for a win, and 1 for a draw, I think one win would basically save them.

          • jpftribe

            Big game for them tomorrow night against Bolton. They lose that and it could be interesting. They win, and they could mathematically able to still be relegated, but highly unlikely.

            Bascially, you get points:
            0 for a loss
            1 for a tie
            3 for a win.

            4 games left, AV has 36 points.

            QPR – 34
            Wigan – 34
            Blackburn – 31
            Bolton – 30

            AV would have to drop to Blackburn’s spot. It’s little more complicated because they have a game in hand over most teams, but one less than Bolton, but you get the drift. They lose, they are in trouble, but they would still need other teams to win.

            Relegation is a very big deal. TV revenues disappear, players get sold off and attendance drops big time. If they don’t climb back in the first year, it could be a very long time before they return.

          • jpftribe

            BTW – Some interesting facts about AV:

            Have played at the top English level for 100 consecutive seasons, second to only Everton with 108

            One of the founding clubs of The Football League in 1888 and The Premier League in 1992

            One of four English football team to win the European Cup, now the Champions League trophy

            Have played at Villa Park since 1897.

            Played in the last game at Old Wembley stadium and lost the championship to Chelsea 1-0.

            Majority ownership purchased by Randy Lerner in 2006. According to wikipedia:
            “The arrival of a new owner and of manager Martin O’Neill marked the start of a new period of optimism at Villa Park and sweeping changes occurred throughout the club including a new badge, a new kit sponsor and team changes in the summer of 2007.”

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          ^^if baseball wont do salary cap, they should do relegation. three divisions.

        • Kamov

          There’s also no draft to tank for. Just the incentive of a clump of TV rights money for being in a top tier league. Of course, the downside is that it has the sort of haves/have not stratification we see in MLB.

          Also, just because I like saying it and typing it, BUNDESLIGA.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    Since alcohol is involved here, I guess I may as well step up and correct some factually inaccurate information offered in the piece this morning.

    Notre Dame’s Leprechaun was designed by Theodore Drake in the 1960’s. Drake is an English name, not Irish. If you want to go further and talk about how the English Protestants treat the Irish Catholics, we can discuss the centuries of sectarian atrocities and bigotry that lasts even today, and how that relates to how white people treated native Americans.

    I don’t think that ND’s logo is horrible, but the argument for banning it from discussion is a little misguided.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      It doesn’t matter whether the person who actually drew the leprechaun was English or Irish (though as best we can tell here he could still be Irish with an English-sounding name). The point is that Irish folks have a significant voice in the governance of the University that uses the symbol as its logo. The comparison between that and the relationship between Natives and the Dolans is night and day.

      Of course there’s also that a drawing of a leprechaun is a lot different than a red sambo caricature of an “Indian,” but that’s largely beside the point.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        I understand the differences you you’re trying to distinguish here, but when you get down to it the point is simple. A guy with an English name (definitely English, not English sounding, or even remotely close to Irish) drew a caricature of what what people stereotype Irish people to look like (They’re called the Fighting Irish, not the Fighting Leprechauns).

        Whether it happened in the 19 teens or 1960’s is completely irrelevant. The original Chief Wahoo and team name was meant to honor a member of the team, where the guy with English ancestry could have been making fun of Irish people when he drew that for all we know.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Right. Night and day.

          Though I didn’t realize you were one of folks who still bought into the Sockalexis myth. Joe Posnanski (at SI.com ) and NYU Professor Jonathan Zimmerman (at the Christian Science Monitor) have both written about this, concluding that the Sockalexis line is completely false. Their pieces should be easy to find.

          Also, sociologist Ellen Staurowsky combed through the organization’s promotional material from the time before the name change and found no mention of Sockalexis until 1968, which was after Native Americans who had come to Cleveland under the federal relocation program began to protest the name and logo.

          Oh, and there’s also the cartoon that ran in the PD on the day the new name that the sportswriters picked was announced. http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1915-Plain-Dealer-Cartoon.jpg I get into more detail in the Scene piece that’s coming out next week, but you embarrass yourself when you say that Wahoo “was meant to honor a member of the team.”

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Sockalexis is the only version I’ve ever heard.

            Anyhow, it’s apparently ok to make fun of one race of people but not another. I get it.

          • BIKI024

            come on now, don’t get it twisted son. no “Night and day” around here, it’s Day ‘N’ Nite, let’s keep Cleve fam Cudi style..

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Zimmerman and Posnanski would also be better served to produce sources on how the team was named, instead of just shooting down the theory. I’m sure neither one of them were there in 1913.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Frownie,
            “The Fighting Irish” can be a bit of a racial slur as well. An anglo on anglo crime.
            The English in their feudal/caste system saw the Irish as lower class mugs who drink and fight as a daily staple.
            (I look at it as a good thing, but that is a discussion for another day.)
            Did ND pick this up as their moniker for a bit of “this is a respectable university” retribution?
            Or was their original intent really to defame the Irish?

            On another note, I was speaking with a Spurrier disciple this weekend while my neighbors were having a group yard sale and I had to admit that I regret not listening to Dan Devine and going to ND.

            Our topic of debate was joined by a another coach and we never came to a conclusion or solution.
            Will ND ever be a superpower football school again?
            What will they have to do to get there?

            I was hoping for Ricky Williams memorabilia, but by the time I crossed the street it was sold out.

            Also, if I can get a cheap, last minute flight I will be there to cry and break something Thursday.

          • p_forever

            what is going on with you acto? there is not even one shred of evidence or anything like evidence to suggest that there was ANY INTENT TO DEFAME THE IRISH when the name fighting irish was adopted! are you kidding me?

            look – here is an example of white european/non-irish people defaming the irish catholics in this country: stanford’s marching band putting on a half time show that included someone pretending to be the pope and others mocking the potato famine.

            NOT THE LEPRACHAUN! cripes.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            My apologies p_4,
            I stand corrected and I still love you.

          • p_forever

            Lol hi I’ve missed you.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            P_4,
            BTW, I was at Rice, and the MOB, (Marching Owl Band) played before the Tx A&M game,
            “Oh Where, Oh Where, Has My Little Dog Gone” a few days after Reveille died.
            I learned very quickly that I loved dogs far more than my respective university.

          • p_forever

            in second grade my teacher had us watch “old yeller” – it was one of the worst experiences of my life. i burst into tears (which totally ruined my reputation as a bad*ss for the rest of my elementary school career). anyway the point is i super get it about dogs.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            That teacher should have been turned in to Child Protective Services and shot.
            Make a lesson plan and keep the horrible movies in the can!
            You are still a Bad Ass p_4! Loving animals makes you even stronger.
            I stopped to grab a dog that was stranded on a traffic island at a very busy intersection last week, this idiot jumped out of his tow truck to yell at me for saving this dogs life, making him miss the light.
            I placed the scared dog into my miniature car, then I ran past him, grabbed the keys out of his truck and drove away. Insensitive people suck, he deserved to be stranded for a while.
            (The fact that I was at least ten inches taller and 120lbs heavier helped, but I would have done the same thing no matter what the circumstances.)
            Mean people suck.

            How about “The Cleveland Adopt a Stray Dogs” instead of the Spiders?

          • p_forever

            haha i like that story. i too collect stray dogs. i have never had to resort to the sort of heroics you describe below, but i endorse your behavior.

          • Petefranklin

            I grab stray wondering pitbulls. What about where the red fern grows?

          • p_forever

            That was traumatic too, but you saw it coming a bit more. And one dog was left, right?

            One of my strays was a pit bull puppy. She was beautiful. My own dog was a bloodhound – they are red bones in where the red fern grows, right? I have blue tick coonhound now.

  • BIKI024

    so is the BlueSocks example the genuinely horrifying one? good grief clevleand, you want a rodent as your mascot??

    • http://brian23.com Brian

      also pretty much the widest possible opening for bad-pun laced headlines after losses

    • Believelander

      It’s…..a spider…?
      Like the Cleveland Spiders?

    • Petefranklin

      I already have a brownie/elf/dwarf/dont exactly know what it is tatooed on my arm, so compared to that a rodent would be way cool! Love the cavs and the 12.5 tonight, and Biki are we on? Offers good till Wed @ midnight eastern. 6 wins or 11 losses.

      • BIKI024

        it’s on son, 1 dolla holla. lmk if you want the cavs, i can throw it in for u… but i’d be weary of cavs pick, 65% of public on them.. memphis needs this game..

        • Petefranklin

          Griz 1-6 ats last 7! Still time(barely)

          • BIKI024

            we’ll see, streaks are meant to be broken.. but who knows, maybe the Cavs show some fight and make it a game.. i rarely bet with the public, and due to our short bench.. i took the griz for a lil bit..

          • Petefranklin

            It’s not like it was A MNF game or something. Public money does not move lines except nationally televised games, or when the “talking heads” at esp network are all over something and influence the viewership in one particular way.

          • BIKI024

            you’d be surprised, lines move in the nba very quickly based on public money, nothing dramatic but they do move.. but I have a strategy that has worked extremely well that combines betting against public and a few other factors. The Grizz actually didn’t end up being an official play, but I took them anyway for shiz and gizzles and of course the one time I bet against the Cavs this season they burn me. at least they didn’t win SU. we have a good shot at #4 most ping pong balls..

          • ClevelandFrowns

            I think we settle this by having Biki and Franklin have an NBA playoff picking competition.

          • BIKI024

            nba playoffs are tough as nails to play. in the end, my competition is my book, but since Franklin and I are already on the books for da Clownies OVER, i’m down for a little friendly NBA competition as well.

          • Petefranklin

            I really think New Orleans ends up with #1 this year. New owner, and a team that didn’t give up down the stretch somehow win the lottery. And who establishes that it is in fact public $$, just curious.

          • BIKI024

            i use covers.com and vegasinsider.com to get a gauge on where the money is at. who knows if it has enough sampling to represent all the bettors, but it does the job.

          • Petefranklin

            I use covers all the time but I dont always trust them or their #’s. The #’s are what they are and I’m pretty sure one 1000 bet > a hundred 20$ bets at least as far as the line so I prefer to get the best of the # before it moves into shape where it should be, or after it was manipulated by the big $ guys(billy Walters, etc.) before they come over the top.

  • ChuckKoz

    this should be the penalty for most crimes.

    • Believelander

      In combination, in the spirit of stoning, bring back its less violent death-y cousin, egging. Should be legal to egg anyone wearing a sign. Number of eggs based on the severity of the crime. It would do wonders for the egg industry.

  • rgrunds

    I’m not getting up until Rod posts.

  • p_forever

    i sort of hate nd being implicated in this awfulness (and by that i mean wahoo awfulness) in any way, but frownie is absolutely, 100% right about the leprachaun and wahoo being night and day.

    notre dame was – and to many in it still is – a huge source of pride for the catholics in this country. it just so happens that lots and lots of catholics in this country, especially at the time the logo was adopted, happen to be irish. and lots and lots of irish catholics wanted to be associated with the university and football team even though they had no formal ties (you know – the subway alum). adopting the leprachaun was one way in which that happened. irish catholics WANTED the nd football team to be identified with them. (the catholic priests that founded nd were french, by the way – notre dame du lac – our lady by the lake – is the official name of the university – so the leprochaun was also, in part, the working class irish catholics saying hey this is our place now). the leprochaun was NEVER EVER viewed as anything negative or pejorative by even one irish catholic. it was ALWAYS viewed as a point of pride. and still is.

    moreover, the leprachaun drawing was not a version of a pre-existing racist caricature (like sambo).

    i could go on, but i’ll end this way:

    i’m sure some of you are sincere when you try to make the comparison between the leprachaun and wahoo, but quite honestly it’s hard for me not to see the whole thing (comparing the two) as completely disingenuous (and close to dishonest). if you want to stand by wahoo, at least be honest about exactly what it is you’re standing by, and why. don’t pretend it is something it’s not.

    • kjn

      There’s a short piece you can find online called “Why the spirit of Notre Dame?” written in the 50’s by a ND priest that lays out what you’re saying here.

      To see the two as equivalent reveals, to me at least, an unwillingness to analyze and understand the issues at play here.

      • p_forever

        exactly, and thx – i will go check it out.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      P_4,
      I was not trying to equate Sambo Injun with our happy leprechaun. I apologize for that mistake, if you lumped me in there with those kids.

      I do however think that you are a drunken Irish immigrant of the lowest classes just looking for an excuse to fight.

      • p_forever

        lol change irish to italian and maybe you’ve got me. *maybe.

  • The Cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs

    A Three Stooges-esque slap on the back of the head and a double shot of Three Wise Men. After all, if they are going to compare Chief Wahoo to a leprechaun, they need some wisdom… and a slap on the back of the head.

    And here’s another way to show how non-comparable the two are. As Notre Dame does, you can take a real person and replicate their mascot without any serious alterations. Try to make a person look like Chief Wahoo? Impossible.

  • ChuckKoz

    just caught this on grantland. Akron getting some national attention.
    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7834061/terry-bowden-akron-plight-mid-major-college-football-program

  • ClevelandFrowns
    • BIKI024

      this deserves a comment of the year look, even though it’s on another site:

      “@deathmonkey41

      Do you find being called a WOP or a Kraut offensive? Obviously not so you’re entire point is moot.

      This would be like Nazi Germany having a soccer team called the Berlin Jews or Berlin Kikes.

      The mascot is the offensive racism equivalent to a white person wearing black face.

      Indians are from India and Native Americans (the actual people the team is named for) are NOT Indians. This is due to the geographical ignorance and screw up of those who discovered America. They mistakenly believed they found India and thus called the Native Americans, Indians.

      So imagine the Kentucky team being called the Kentucky Mafia Bastards (because they mistook Germany for Italy) and your mascot being a beer drinking German and he is killing a Jew. That’s the equivalent to this.

      Now would that offend you if you saw that? If not then you can’t relate to why anybody who is offended by this would be offended. I’m not Native American, Indian, or in anyway a part of this but even I can emphasize enough to be offended by the blatant racism with this.

      Get a history book and read up before making comparisons they are apples to oranges.”

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Biki,
        Indian = indigenous

        It is the same thing to use that name in Asia, or North America, or Australia, or New Zealand.

        Homo Sapiens Sapiens is only native to Africa,
        so “Native American” is the most incorrect name.

        • BIKI024

          “indian = indigenous” ??? i doubt you will find any dictionary/encyclopedia/reference book in the world that will support that statement, but look forward to seeing what ya got.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            I dunno about the indian/indigenous thing, but the indian/native issue is a bit more complex than “Indians come from India.”

            A good chunk of Native Americans actually prefer the American Indian moniker for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is standing treaties with the US government that use “Indian” to describe native groups. Some fear that a move to Native American would invalidate the treaties.

            The most visible Native American rights organization in the 60s was the American Indian Movement, for what it’s worth.

          • BIKI024

            it’s not very complex, Indians in it’s original definition, do come from India, but as Believeland writes below, it got assimilated into Western vernacular after Columbus’ little mishap.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            When it comes to what Native Americans/American Indians prefer to call themselves, yes, it is more complex.

          • BIKI024

            sure, it’s a complex confusion of the the facts. but i guess you can’t change 500+ years of misinformation.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            You’re not getting the point. American Indians choose to self-identify as such, disirregardless of Columbus being a dumbass.

            But whatever. Keep on trucking, I guess.

          • BIKI024

            i get the point dude. just because some Native Americans choose to call themselves “American Indians” doesn’t mean that they are correct, in fact most academic groups deem them incorrect.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Sorry I’m not explaining it well enough for you to get it 🙁

          • BIKI024

            aww, a Frownie face, how cute.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            :*

          • actovegin1armstrong

            To quote Mr McEnroe, “You can not be serious?”
            Biki, what else could Indian mean?
            Is it a Hindi word for “Us Guys”?
            Is it a Hindi word at all
            I think not.
            I have always thought that you were one of the smart kids, how are you missing this one Biki?

          • BIKI024

            “what else could Indian mean?”

            The name India is derived from Indus, which originates from the Old Persian word Hindu. The latter term stems from the Sanskrit word Sindhu, which was the historical local appellation for the Indus River.[9] The ancient Greeks referred to the Indians as Indoi (Ινδοί), which translates as “the people of the Indus”.

            Now go home and get your shine box.

          • Believelander

            I posted the same thing except it didn’t post. So, this. Wikipedia is so awesome.

            As an aside, how bad would it be if India was called Hindia or Hindua? India sounds a lot better. Good thing that things just work out sometimes.

          • BIKI024

            with 70% of India’s population below poverty line, i’m not sure it could get much worse for them..

            but Hindiana Hoosiers would sound a little cooler..

          • Believelander

            Hmmm…

          • actovegin1armstrong

            “The name India is derived from Indus, which originates from the Old Persian word Hindu.”

            Biki, The point is that Indian is not what the people called themselves.
            You can S I Hayakawa this all day, but indian is very commonly associated with indigenous, it is not a real stretch.

            And…. What does “Now go home and get your shine box” mean?

          • BIKI024

            really, so you don’t know your Goodfellas references either?? good lord, you’re in worse shape than i thought.. it means you’re a moron. and you’ll continue to sound like one until you can reference this “indian is very commonly associated with indigenous” nonsense. but i guess you feel that if you keep writing it people will believe you??

          • acto

            Biki,
            You could not make me watch Goodfellas.
            More importantly it is absolutely shocking that you are just now realizing that I am a moron.
            Everyone else knew that long ago.
            Biki, when you argue with idiots you take yourself down to their level.
            How does it feel to hobnob with the dullards?

          • BIKI024

            and yes, people from India call themselves Indian..

          • BIKI024

            well i technically didn’t call you a moron, but thanks for clarifying since you refuse to watch Goodfellas!

        • Believelander

          Indian was applied because Columbus thought he had arrived in India. The Bahamas and Antilles, and North America’s southeast corner, bore an orientation similar to the East Indies and Indochina – a large landmass at the southeast corner of the continent, with an extensive archipelago of islands large and small to its south and southeast. Without accurate scope of scale, the Siamese peninsula and the Floridan peninsula could easily be mistaken as well; compare the orientation of Florida to Cuba and the orientation of Malaysia to the Indonesian island directly south of it.

          Aboriginal = indigenous. Indian = from India.

          That said, I have about a dozen Native American friends and acquaintances, all of whom call themselves Indians. Indian is not a racist term.

          The Chief Wahoo face is pretty racist, though, and we could easily have a cool Indian logo that wasn’t racist. I was a fan of the cursive “I” feather logo, personally.

  • Mortimer

    Lordie – thanks for trying to debate Booms – did that ever happen? Not that he’d let you talk…

  • ChuckKoz

    frowns,

    just read an article about the casino. as a younger man, gilbert tried to do it the right way but was shut down…..

    “the consultants highlighted […] Gilbert’s arrest in 1981 as a college student for running a sports betting operation that was raided by police. That case was addressed through a diversion program and Gilbert was not convicted.”

    http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2012/04/gilbert_shares_his_vision_for.html

    • BIKI024

      you’re 2-2 with old news today Cronkite.. (grantland story on Bowden posted on Frowns on Friday).. this was a minor issue for the NBA when DG was going through the process of buying the team..

      • ChuckKoz

        my bad. i did stuff this weekend. and apparently don’ t remember details of “minor” nba issues from 7 years ago.

        note: i sincerely hope the seeming joy you get in being a snarky ass on this site is just some online caricature and not how you act to people in real life.

        • BIKI024

          thanks again for the newsflash Cronkite

  • kjn

    re: the ND thing

    Just because there exists a logo with some comparable traits, it doesn’t mean it’s a 1:1 ratio. As others have pointed out, the history and origin of it all are hugely different. Also, the Irish are an individual people (with a nation and everything) while indian is a rubbish, out-dated word (much like wog) to describe any and all non-white people.

    Finally, as I pointed out at WFNY, people ARE NOT protesting the name Irish (at least not in any substantial way that I’m aware of). If people were, if a sizable, vocal group of Irish Catholics were out there making noise, I’d be more than willing to hear what they have to say and evaluate what their issues with it are.

    And you know what, that exact same thing happened with the Cleveland Indians. I never, ever thought about the name/logo until the protests picked up in the 90’s. Once I sat down, got out of my little box, and looked at the issue, I realized that the name and Wahoo are really a-hole-ish, jerky things to support. And I wasn’t raised to be a jerk.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    Okay, just re-read my comments from earlier, and I don’t see the part where I equated Chief Wahoo to that stupid little leprechaun. I’m not offended by either, but that doesn’t mean that I think that people don’t have the right be. My first post was to simply point out an inaccuracy with the post, and I accomplished that.

    If they get rid of Chief Wahoo, fine. It’s really not a big deal to me anymore. Should they get rid of him? Probably, but I’ll leave the outrage to bloggers and Native Americans who show up to protest more often than once a year at Carnegie and Ontario.

    At any rate, telling someone that it’s ridiculous to be offended by something is on the same level of absurdity as insisting that someone actually SHOULD be offended by something.

  • Believelander

    “The name India is derived from Indus, which originates from the Old Persian word Hindu.”

    BOOM! What was that? …me dropping some knowledge on you.

    #ThanksBadSearsCommercial

  • Coachie Ballgames

    also worth noting that Notre Dame doesn’t use the fightin’ leprechaun logo on their football uniforms.
    Whatever anyone may think of the politics of Wahoo,
    it’s still a dumb-looking logo and a dumb-looking thing to put on a baseball cap. The Celts don’t put their leprechaun on their jerseys, the Irish don’t put their leprechaun on their helmets and the Vikes don’t put their cartoon viking on their helmets. the argument against waho0 can be limited to aesthetics before you even get into the history.

  • Captain_Spaulding

    We’re three days away from the biggest draft in Browns history; no time for this logo nonsense.

    Anyone else hear the chatter about muliple teams speaking w/the Vikings looking to trade to #3 for Richardson??? It seems everyone has finally cut through the Browns’ smokescreens regarding Tannehill, Kalil, Blackmon, etc and realized that they have zeroed in on TRich. I really hope they don’t get beat to the punch on Richardson, but if they do, a trade back for Floyd is a must.

    • rodofdisaster

      What if the Vikings just have managed to trick the Browns into bidding on the third pick out of fear that the Vikes will trade out?

      I personally think you can’t go wrong with TRich or Blackmon. My personal feeling is that they belong in that order but that’s just me.

      • Captain_Spaulding

        I don’t think the Browns will make the trade; they have too many holes to fill. I do think that TRich is the best player in this draft not named Luck and he is definitely the safest pick in the entire draft, which is probably why teams are looking to get him at #3.
        Richardson is head and shoulders above Blackmon imo; I prefer Floyd over Blackmon.
        Anyways, if they are stuck at #4 and TRich is gone, I think Claiborne is the pick. If they trade back to #6 or #7, I’d feel fine w/Floyd and a RB at #22 or #37.

        • rodofdisaster

          Cap-

          I agree that TRich is lost underneath all of the RG3 love and I have a hard time passing up a guy who might touch the ball 15-20 times a game for a guy who at best will see it about 10-12 (WR). I know that the RB is fading in importance but not if you have a good one. Also, with defenses now gearing up to stop spread attacks, that could make a RB more effective.

          I don’t like Floyd’s off-the-field issues since there are many other similarly talented WRs this year. If it weren’t a deep draft then I might overlook them. I’ve seen a lot of Justin Blackmon games and he plays much bigger than 6’1″. I also like what I see from Stephen Hill.

          If we’ve learned nothing about the NFL, the top 5 picks need to not only be immediate starters but impact players. TRich is an impact player.

          • Captain_Spaulding

            Couldn’t agree more re: the need for impact players and TRich is the most sure fire impact player in this draft without question.
            I have nothing against Blackmon, I just think Floyd is a better player. Floyd’s “off field issues” are a non factor imo; had he been at an SEC school, we may have never even heard of them.
            My preference is to stay at #4 and take Richardson, but if he is not available, I would prefer a trade back in the top ten for Floyd. If, for some reason, they can’t find a trade partner, I would settle for Claiborne, which is a pretty damn good consolation prize.

      • BIKI024

        the Vikings GM is Rick Spielman. even if he’s twice as smart as his brother then all you H+H haters will be 100% right about how inept our front office is if we get duped by a Spielman..

        • rodofdisaster

          Do you have to hate both H+H? Could you not just like one and think that half of the duo is competent at football management?

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Anybody else playing Beat The Streak on MLB.com?

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Pudge! Miss you already.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    whats up with the 5 comments at a time thing?

  • Joel Osteen

    Don’t know

  • Joel Osteen

    Don’t know if this has been brought up yet, but perhaps a proper scalping would be a suitable punishment?

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