A Little Help for Chris Perez

by Cleveland Frowns on June 27, 2012

Chris Perez is confused about Cleveland fans again. We’ve already been over the Indians closer’s incredibly myopic complaints about attendance at Progressive Field, a gripe that he renewed in a recent interview with Tyler Kepner of the New York Times, but now Perez is complaining about the attendance at Cleveland Browns Stadium as well.

“I don’t understand,” Perez told Kepner. “Their whole thing is, ‘We want a winner.’ Well, why do you support the Browns? They don’t win. They’ve never won. They left. You guys blindly support them. I don’t understand it. It’s a double standard, and I don’t know why.”

Which only goes to show again that those who don’t know history are doomed to keep saying incredibly dumb things to reporters.

So meet the uterus of American football as the world knows it, Chris. You’ve been pitching in it for years now, so you should understand that expressing vacant confusion about why Browns fans’ “blindly support” their football team is at least as dumb as doing the same about a mother’s blind support for her child.

Of course there’s also that football is just better than any other sport. More teamwork, more strategy, more physically demanding. Just better. Which is why the realest, most resilient, impervious irrepressible place there is invented it.

And which isn’t to say that there aren’t way too many stupid Browns fans who do blindly support the team to their own detriment, but just that there’s no reason to be so confused about it. Sucks to be from Florida and not know these things, but now you do, and we’re always glad to help.

Alright, a decent Wednesday to everyone. NBA draft preview tomorrow(!!!).

—————

Images via Bill’s Sports Maps.

  • Shadow_play

    Wonderfully simple! When is Chris Perez going to learn to keep his mouth shut?

    • Believelander

      Dear God, I hope….

      Never

      Chris Perez is exactly what MLB Baseball needs. A guy who can be abrasive and offensive while simultaneously showing that he REALLY cares about his fans and having their support. He wants to win, he wants fans to want him to win, and he wants them to cheer for him. Whether he says something dumb as a result, it’s so refreshing in the face of the endless politispeak that all pro athletes have been coached to. They’ve bleached all color out of their public personalities for fear of our sue-crazy, PR crazy, you-can’t-offend-anyone-crazy era.

      Not my boy @ChrisPerez54. He’ll let you know what he thinks, AND the best places to eat when you’re in the Bay area following your team on a weekend tip against the Giants.
      #PURERAGE

      • bupalos

        Now if only we could get an outspoken firebrand who doesn’t also happen to have the intelligence and maturity of an adolescent gorilla.

  • The Curse of Yahoo!

    Agreed. Let’s go at Perez hard after his next blown save–frankly, he’d be insulted if we were to show blind, unrelenting support.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    I really want a Dayton Triangles hat now.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      #TEAMSPARTANS

      Think of how much easier things would have been on LeBron if the Akron Pros were still around.

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        I am just trying to picture a Sunday in which Canton, Akron, and Cleveland all had games going on.

        Of course LeBron would still get crucified for wearing a Cowboys hat.

        Come to think of it…my only true issue with him is the Cowboys and Yankees stuff. That’s just repulsive…and maybe that white full length fur coat at the Browns game. That hurt my eyes.

        • CleveLandThatILove

          He lost me when he went to Beverly Hills for Lasik. Seriously?

          • GrandRapidsRustlers

            Great now I have the Jhonny Peralta radio ad for TLC stuck in my head.

          • Believelander

            LeBron got laser eye surgery?

            Edit: Rustler, my boy Joe Willie says to check yourself on the wardrobe comments

          • CleveLandThatILove

            Yep, back in 2007-ish.

      • bupalos

        I’m sure in that case we would have been treated to Pony Express letters penned from the newest Decatur Staley on how East Akron really isn’t the same thing as downtown at all.

  • JWMarriott

    Another point is that the NFL provides small markets with an equal chance of success whereas the other leagues don’t. That’s a lot of what Perez is missing. Still, he gets paid whether fans come or not, so you have got to appreciate a guy who actually cares whether fans show up. Isn’t that part of what we want from our ballplayers? To treat the game as something other than a job? To give us validation as fans by caring whether we show up? I think the good about Perez’s comments should be pointed out along with the bad.

  • Bryan

    Its good to see that this blog will take a strong stand against anyone who, through their words or actions, spits on our hometown.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    What’s the symbol for Florida on Map #3? A double wide?

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Either an orange or a Daytona stripper, but whatever. Florida’s a fine place. It’s just sorely lacking in certain important respects.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      Good one CLTIL,
      However it is most assuredly an aged single-wide that bows down in the middle.
      I could include a pic of my dad’s humble abode near Tampa for illustration if you wish.

      I wish we could see Tejas on that map. The symbol would either be a greasy Chorizo, Habenero, Egg and Queso, Taco, or a U-Haul.
      No one is actually from here, we are almost all transients from the Silicone Valley crash, or the Rust Belt.

  • Beeej

    The Indians are dead last in average attendance with 18,408 per game times 82 home games in a season equals 1,509,456 fans that will attend a tribe game this year.

    Browns stadium seats 73,200 times 8 home games equals 585,600. If we include the 2 preseason games, which we shouldn’t, that number rises to 732,000. Which is still less than half of what the worst drawing team in the MLB is doing. Maybe CP should concentrate on throwing the ball really really hard instead of why Cleveland refuses to support the Indians.

    • BIKI024

      his concentration seems just fine. i believe he’s at 22 consecutive saves. the fans are supporting them in NYC, I’ve seen a ton of Indians paraphanalia on the mean streets of manhattan and brooklyn the last couple days.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        That some rich kids who couldn’t cut it on the mean streets of NE OH want to put on their Tribe hats to feel tough for a few days doesn’t mean a whole heck of a lot in my book.

        • mo_by_dick
        • BIKI024

          i’m not sure there are too many rich kids from the Dominican or of African origin, unless they are ballplayers, which they were definitely not.

          but i saw a fair share of overweight white guys with stone washed jeans and Thome Tribe jerseys.. which means they came all the way from the mean streets of Ashtabula.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Pics or it didnt happen.

          • Believelander

            Oh, it SO happened.
            (Biki, I need a pair of stone washed jeans, a Thome jersey, and a Richard Nixon mask)

        • nj0

          So you think racism is tough now? I thought I knew you. *shakes head*

      • Beeej

        I like Perez. He has been doing a great job this year, and I think the “Bullpen Mafia” is way better than what we had in 2009 (2008?) when no lead was safe.

        Maybe I’m just being too emotional, but I think insulting your home fans for showing up to 8 football games and not 82 baseball games is a bit shortsighted.

        • BIKI024

          i agree with him 100% in terms of the bias towards the Browns in Cleveland, but it is what it is, the Browns dominate the airwaves and media, no doubt about it. but yeah, CP isn’t really the sharpest tool in the shed, but hey, at least he got himself and the Indians some ink in the NYT. please god win the game today, a sweep would be brutal

          • ClevelandFrowns

            But it is what it is, but yeah, but hey, please don’t let them sweep us. Amen. -SUPERFAN!

          • BIKI024

            cleveland’s definitely in the house..

          • mo_by_dick

            ^ Biki, please don’t tell me if this isn’t a Bone Thugs N Harmony reference, because I’d rather just believe that it is. Nice one.

      • acto

        Mean streets of Manhattan?
        Shirley you jest.

    • nj0

      Average Indians ticket in 2011 was 18.49.
      Times 1,509,456 = $2.8M

      Average Browns ticket in 2011 was 54.20.
      Times 585,600 = $3.1M
      Times 732,000 =$3.96M

      It’s also interesting that both the Browns and the Indians have some of the lowest ticket prices in their respective sports leagues.

      ***
      I understand the guy’s frustration. The excuse at the beginning of the season I kept hearing was, wait until the weather warms up! Now that the weather has warmed up, they’re not that good anyway!

      All of which is fine. I just don’t want to hear any crying when some viable market becomes interested in the team. At least that should get rid of Wahoo and the curse.

      • Petefranklin

        Vegas might have been viable for the Marlins but count us out here. No stadium and the corporations(casinos) based here dont seem interested. Salt lake is too small and Portland just lost their AAA ream. Oakland would move first anyway, they will never ever get a new stadium paid for by the public.

  • Beeej

    I’m still mad about the Cleveland Rams move to L.A., then to St. Louis. Cleveland could have been the site of the Greatest Show on Turf.

    • 910Derp

      We would’ve also had to watch Jim Everett. And trade Jerome Bettis to the Steelers. But still, Carol Rosenbloom>Randy Lerner.

      • Petefranklin

        So maybe Randy Lerners wife will off him and take over? Does Randy like strippers? just curious.

  • p_forever

    perez insists upon usingthe phrase “blindly loyal” as if blind loyalty is per se bad – it makes me feel sad, and also makes me wonder whether he’s ever been part of the sort of community that inspires it.

    i suggest we invite him to a frownie tailgate at muni ASAP, and have him come sit in the non-rich person’s part of browns stadium to take in a game.

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      Whiskey consumption would also be compulsory for him to “get it”.

      • Petefranklin

        DRINK, ole # 2 Couch style!

    • Steve

      He wants the same type of support for the Indians that the Browns get. People complain about the Indians not winning but then turn around and weep at the feet of Holmgren and Shurmur. For someone from out of town, I can understand why he’s confused/upset.

  • ChuckKoz
    • Beeej

      “Miami is the slowest city in America.” Translation: They don’t realize that we won anything yet. OR They don’t give a F*&k!

    • BIKI024

      RG3 hasn’t ever seen a guy like Justin Tuck before. he is going to get CRUSHED when he tries to leave the pocket. CRUSHED

      • Petefranklin

        LOL, sure you’re not talking about the good Weeden here? Reading that article pisses me off even more that Holmgrin couldn’t get it done. I’m not saying that mobility is the be all end all but its a great start for a rookie, ask the Panthers. BTW you can still get over 4.5 at minus 150 for a dime at the Hilton (LVH) if you like the Clowns that much.

        • BIKI024

          Already in my friend, max play with my book, so I’m all good. But first things first, i gotta sweat these Indians over 75.5

          • Petefranklin

            Yeah I was gonna ask you about that. Looks like you may have to hedge even though you got an OUTSTANDING number of 75.5. Any game plan yet? I’d wait till they have a post all star win streak, wait for that to end then bet against them as a favorite. Just my 2 cents, but we’ve seen the script already last year. BTW when I saw the # it was 79.5 here so you did great already but dont go down with the ship. Cheers!

          • bupalos

            You sure do. That run differential is hideous, their record is deceptive. If they are the same team second half that they were the first, you’re in trouble.

    • CleveLandThatILove

      LeBron does know how to dress, I’ll give him that.

  • ramdu

    Maybe if Progressive field held the Gay Games more people would show up for a tribe game. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gay_Games …”Opening and closing ceremonies @ Cleveland Browns Stadium” lol!

    • ClevelandFrowns

      What’s so funny? The Gay Games are going to be by far the best thing that’s ever happened in that building.

      • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

        Being gay is hilarious, did you forget????

        Signed,
        13 year olds

        • mo_by_dick

          A little harsh on 13-year-olds, I think, but I appreciate what you’re going for.

        • ramdu

          Ok ok, sorry if my post was immature I just never would’ve thought the gay games would come to browns stadium thats all.

    • nj0

      Anything that brings more rodeo to NEO should not be laughed at.

      This exactly the type of thing the city needs to bring in.

  • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

    My favorite part of whenever this comes up is when people talk about how the NFL’s structure makes it more possible for the Browns to compete than MLB’s allows for the Indians to compete, even though the Indians are far closer to winning anything than the Browns are.

    • JWMarriott

      Hmm…no, not really. You have to define “closer.” NFL teams have gone from horrible to great in a span of 2-3 years, it takes MLB teams far longer (see Bay, Tampa).

      • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

        but the Browns and Indians are not starting out in the same place in 2012. the Indians have already advanced past horrible and now sit at mediocre, on the cusp of good. There is a solid young core of talent that I don’t think the Browns possess. Also, the Indians compete in an easier division.

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      As long as Aaron Cunningham is employed by the Indians and playing meaningful innings, they are not close winning anything.

    • nj0

      I kind of agree, but the MLB just kinds of fudges things to give teams like the Indians a chance to compete. Weak/strong divisions and adding wild cards when needed are just two ways.

      In short, I doubt you (and myself) would be so willing to excuse the inequity in the MLB structure if the Tribe ended up in the AL East rather than the Central.

      • bupalos

        agreed. they are 1 game out but have the 4th worst run differential in the majors.

  • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

    I mean hey, why focus on the Indians being a game out of first place, when the Browns COULD CONCEIVABLY theoretically win something!

    Props to Frownie for having the courage to admit that Cleveland is a football town and that’s just what it is.

    • Beeej

      I don’t think anyone in NE Ohio would disagree that in the hierarchy of Cleveland sports it goes Browns>Indians>Cavs. There are people that I’m sure like baseball or basketball more than football, but the region as a whole is football crazy.

      • ChuckKoz

        debatable b/w cavs/indians.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Only because of LeBron.

          • ChuckKoz

            and mark price, the richfield coliseum, and dan gilbert (sorry)

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Just completely ridiculous.

          • ChuckKoz

            …..90% lebron

          • Beeej

            That’s exactly what I was going to say. Before LeBron, Smittypop, Smerka, and Steve were the only people at Cavs games for 10+ years.

          • ChuckKoz

            i had season tix the year before lebron….those were the best games….room for your jacket, and despite a bad overall record they were almost always competitive for home games.

          • BIKI024

            Dajuan Wagner!

          • bupalos

            Between the cavs and Indians, whichever one is less hopeless at that particular time is the more popular one. Often though it’s hard to tell which that is.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            It’s silly to argue that LeBron didn’t raise a certain baseline here.

          • Beeej

            Before LBJ the Cavs were a distant 3rd.

          • bupalos

            The Cavaliers organization would probably not be in Cleveland right now if not for Lebron, and I’ll agree there are a lot of hangover fans from his years right now. That said, any year the team has been good it has been more popular than the Indians, and any year the indians have been good they are more popular than the Cavs. I think you have to go back to the 70′s to have this perspective. Fully 80% of the time both have sucked and no one has cared much about either.

  • Jim

    Maybe the “lack” of fan support for the Indians has something to do with how decidedly mediocre the team is in this, the year of “contention.” They have the second worst run differential in the AL, and sixth worse in the league. Their chance of making the playoffs is currently less than the Kansas City Royals.

    The numbers show that contrary to what Chris Antonetti would have you believe, the Indians have actually overacheived to this point. I fear that the current five game losing streak is a regression to the mean.

    With little to no help coming from the minors and with history showing this team is not going to be major players at the trade deadline, the team is
    relient on internal improvement. Realistically, outside of Santana, no one with any sort of track record has really underwhelmed to where a sudden increase in productivity would be expected (maybe Masterson). We’ll see if the Indians can get better offense, better starting pitching, and more
    consistentcy from the bullpen sans Perez and Pestano.

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      Hey…don’t make fun of the Royals. They are winning this sorry division. Only 4 back in the loss column and have done nothing at home.

      I would comment on the Indians but I am still so steamed at Acta from last night.

      • Beeej

        What did Acta do last night? I mean other than show a replay of Hannahan “foul out” to the third base ump.

        • GrandRapidsRustlers

          Nothing. That is my problem. Last night was the spot for a manager to lose his mind. Empty a bat rack…throw your hat around the infield. A questionable call down the line early and then the worst call of the year. When Jack got tossed Manny should have lost his mind. The players follow the manager and I am starting to wonder if this manager is a little to passive for this young team.

          • Petefranklin

            Manny hasn’t done much after the first week of the season to upset me until Monday. Santana obviously nicks himself with a foul off the foot and is visibly limping but yet Manny leaves him in down by 6 runs! That was just stupid. Overwork may not be the cause of Santana’s ills but it surely can’t help.

    • nj0

      One game away from the WS in 2007, 96 wins, 21st in attendance.

      Cleveland doesn’t support good Indians teams either.

      Hope MLB can figure out a way to get a team into Brooklyn.

      • Petefranklin

        Don’t blame me, I attended 3 games in the week that I was there that year. I was also amazed/pissed at the attendance at the weeknight games.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        Then people started showing up in 2008, and we know how that year turned out. I think during that fire sale season, Dolan had his infamous “We’ll be a contender for 1 or 2 years out of every 10 and people will have to be happy with that” speech.

        But no, the league isn’t broken at all.

        • nj0

          April 2008 home attendance: 370,312 in 16 games; 23,100 game.

          So when we support a team that was one game away from the WS, we post attendance numbers that are good enough for 26th in the league.

          Can we just admit that we’re not a good baseball town?

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      I try to raise this exact same argument, and all I usually get is:

      STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE THEY ARE LIKE 1 GAME OUT OF FIRST PLACE PEOPLE ARE STOOPID FOR LIKE TEH BROWNS OVER THE INDIANS IF YOUR GOING TO BE NEGATIVE THEN WHY DO YOU BOTHER WATCHING AT ALL.

  • wiseoldredbeard

    Perez is right that is sucks that more people aren’t going to the games, but it also sucks when you buy tickets and watch your team lose by ten runs. You know why people like to watch at home or at a bar? Because if it happens to be a night where the Indians go down by ten runs, you can focus on other things (like drinking). CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A RIGHT HANDED BAT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ORDER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    That is all (for today).

    • Jim

      The fact that this team utilizes seven to eight lefties in their lineup on a regular basis is mind boggling for a team that purportedly is as analytical as the Indians. Left-handed pitchers dominate an already middling lineup; 5-16 against lefties, which I believe is the worst record in MLB.

      They had to realize this issue coming into the season and they did nothing to address it. Instead, they went and signed more left-handed hitters like Kotchman and Damon.

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        Not to turn this into a farm system discussion but I would love to see them rush a kid for a change to see what we got.

        http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502591

        Once you get to AA you are basically right there and I don’t buy into AAA as a place to develop (see Asdrubal) Why not see what you have with this kid and let him play everyday in August and September. He is 25 years old. Let’s find out.

        • Beeej

          Anything would be better than Damon. At least Kotchman can play defense.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      I agree with the neighborhood WORB.

    • Steve

      Let me count all the Indians 10 run losses this year. 1. Oh, we’re done? I get it, you’re a casual baseball fan who will only care when the division is all but locked up. But you don’t get to make up history to defend your position.

      • Steve

        And this proves my point below. The reasons people don’t want to watch the Indians is that they think they get blown out frequently and have glaring holes on the roster. Does this not more accurately describe the Browns than the Indians? It’s ok to just say “We don’t really like baseball here”

        • jim

          What’s your definition of “blown out?” I believe the Indians have lost the most games in major league baseball by 5+ runs this season. The terrible run differential and .500 record also indicates that they find themselves on the opposite sides of some lopsided scores.

          • Steve

            So we’re just going to keep moving the goalposts on “blowouts” until we get the results we hoped for in the first place?

  • Steve

    Frowns is right, but the problem is that fans in this town don’t just say “we like football, we don’t like baseball”. Joe Cleveland Fan still claims that this is a good baseball town. They throw a myriad of reasons around as to why they don’t go down and check out the Indians, each one more applicable to why they actually shouldn’t be supporting the Browns than the last. Or they’ll give excuses like “we traded away back to back Cy Youngs!” Nevermind that the guy complaining didn’t go down to watch those Cy Youngs pitch in the first place.

    Most of us get the real issue here that, in this town, even last place football trumps everything else. But it would help the slower-thinkers, like Perez, if the diehards would just say “I don’t like baseball” instead of blaming their lack of support on anything and everything else.

    • wiseoldredbeard

      I am diehard football and like baseball. I would (and have and do) pay good money to watch the Indians play as often as am I able. That said, there is clearly a disconnect between the city and the Indians right now, and the only thing that is going to cure it is consistent winning. Period. The Browns (for good or bad — probably mostly bad) have the luxury of being able to suck and continuing to sell tickets. Perez’s comparison is apples to oranges and basically just shows that he doesn’t understand the city. It’s not his fault, it just is…

    • Beeej

      If it makes you feel any better, I don’t go to either stadium. I’m much happier watching games in my home, with a 6 pack of micro-brew that costs as much as one shi**y Miller Lite, and the ability to change the channel/take a nap/do yard work when the game gets too depressing to watch any more.

      Maybe the Dolans can put in a “Hammock Zone.”

      • Steve

        Sure, I guess, whatever. I have no problem with the people who treat the teams in town with the same attitude, or at least put the reasoning for differing attitudes on themselves. But the guy who has has at least 5 jerseys of QBs from the new Browns era in the bottom of his closet, and then blames his lack of support for the Indians on “not having stars I can get behind” bewilders me.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    cleveland fans suck for not being top 10 in attendance for indians.
    cleveland fans suck for not being gracious toward lebron.
    cleveland fans suck for being blindly loyal to the browns.

    ok. message received. got it.

    • Steve

      “cleveland fans suck for not being top 10 in attendance for indians.”

      A hilarious strawman. If the Indians were even 20th in attendance, there would be little to no griping. But they are dead last, and the distance between them and 29th has been quite large most of the season, for a team that has spent the majority of the season in first place.

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