Cavs Draft Sixth Man with #4 Pick

by Cleveland Frowns on June 29, 2012

Dion Waiters, a sophomore 2-guard from Syracuse, to the Cavs at #4 in what’s being called the most surprising pick of the draft. Cleveland later added 7-footer Tyler Zeller from North Carolina, the ACC Player of the Year, with the 17th pick by way of a trade with Dallas. Folks seem to agree that there’s no reason why Zeller shouldn’t be a productive player in the league for a decade. As for Waiters, optimistic folks compare him to Dwyane Wade. Others point out that Waiters doesn’t have a consistent jumper, and averaged 12.6 points coming off the bench for an underachieving Syracuse team, having capped his college career by fouling out in 20 minutes (2-8, 9 points) in the Orange’s NCAA tournament loss to Ohio State last March. (Wade, on the other hand, was a first-team All American who did things like get triple doubles (29-11-11) against a top-ranked Kentucky unit to lead his (overachieving) team (Marquette) to its first Final Four appearance and highest national ranking in decades.) But Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim says that Waiters made big strides from his freshman to sophomore year, was his team’s best player, and is growing up fast. He’s from a tough area in Philly and told an ESPN scout at a pre-draft summer camp in Las Vegas (where he reportedly dominated the competition (“all wows”)) that he lost three cousins and a best friend to the streets during his senior year in high school.

“I came to Syracuse as a boy,” Waiters said. “And left as a man.”

Byron Scott calls the pick “a steal.” Terry Pluto isn’t wild about it. Either way, it’s good that the Cavs left the #3 spot open for LeBron’s return.

Which should be pretty much all the NBA talk we’ll need here for the next ten months or so, so that’s a wrap. The quietest month on the Cleveland sports calendar begins today (always an especially fun time here, of course). Hope everyone has a decent weekend.

—————

UPDATE: SB Nation’s Mike Prada on the Waiters pick and what Prada sees as a “revisionist history pitch” by Cavs GM Chris Grant. (“I didn’t even talked to Cleveland,” Waiters said. “I didn’t even work out for Cleveland.”)

And ESPN’s Brian Windhorst behind the scenes with the Cavs draft team.

  • ClevelandFrowns

    This is funny: Member of “Plain Dealer Staff” hides behind anonymous byline to rip Tony Rizzo in a draft liveblog. Journalism! Grownups!

    http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/06/nba_draft_cleveland_cavaliers.html

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      pretty sure that was jodie valade after a couple of those “just make me something with Bacardi Dragonberry in it” drinks that brosef’s wife likes.

      you should invite jodie out for a nice meal frowns.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        I’d bet you 50 Cheddar Bay points that it wasn’t Jodie.

        • http://twitter.com/byRiverBurns River Burns

          I smell MSB behind it…and the pd STILL doesn’t have a real Cavs beat writer. Thanks for stopping by, Tom Reed. Are they holding out for Windhorst to return with LeBron (which won’t happen)?

          • 910Derp

            Won’t ever happen.

    • Steve

      To be fair, Rizzo deserved to be ripped for his comments.

  • Max

    I’m not even a Syracuse fan but to call a team that went 30-1 in the regular season “underachieving” because their 7 foot defensive anchor turned up ineligible on the eve of the tournament is a bit much.

    OK, so he’s not Dwayne Wade. Let’s examine the morons who make those wild statements rather than criticizing our new SG, shall we? They get paid for clicks and the more clicks they generate, the more successful they are, which is better for promoting their “brand” and generating more clicks. FTM.

    So, in the end, who cares what they say? From what I hear the man’s best skill (some have called it “elite”) is scoring. The Cavs happened to be pretty bad at that quite often last year. The other two players who would likely have fit into the Cavs current model (Beal, MKG) were off the board.

    In the words of your hero, “What should they do?”

    Also, remember the year John Morton was awesome in the tourney for Seton Hall and the Cavs drafted him? How’d basing a draft pick on a tournament performance work out? So, it probably works the other way as well.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      I dunno. I bet D-Wade could have done a lot of damage with that Syracuse team even without that 7-foot anchor. Did he even have a 7-footer on that Marquette team? Anyway, folks are making the Wade comparison all over the place. I’m only putting it into some perspective. There’s really no need for you to get so worked up about it.

      Also, I’m going to keep assuming that there’s useful information to be taken from how a player performs in his biggest games in college, your John Morton example from two decades ago notwithstanding (Morton was the 25th pick in that draft, btw).

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        Whom would you have selected instead?

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Who knows? For all I know Waiters was the best they could do.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I think he was, and I brought numbers. Averaged out per 36 minutes, to keep it balanced.

            I threw MKG and Beal in there for fun, but they were obviously gone already. Ross and Barnes were the 2 wings to go after Waiters.

          • BIKI024

            good stuff dude, i’m a big Waiters fan too. and enough of this “stunned” reaction by the fans, all mock drafts had him going no later than 7. he was the #2, 2 guard on all boards, and Beal wasn’t head over heals over him. in fact, Waiters is much stronger than him, so he should end up being able to be more physical, which we need.

            can’t wait to see him and Kyrie on the break!

          • bupalos

            Nice. I badly wanted MKG but it’s hard to sulk here.

          • Believelander

            @Biki: AND Tyler Zeller on the break. Hopefully the strength and conditioning regimen they put him on doesn’t slow him down, because there aren’t many seven footers that get up and gallop the way that young man does.

            I was ecstatic when we slid back up and grabbed a center most mock drafts predicted to be a lottery pick with the #24 selection from the Sessions trade, our 2nd rounder, and a 2nd rounder we acquired from last year’s dealings. Only thing that could have made yesterday any sweeter was if the Barnes/possible salary Varejao + future picks trade rumors had proven true.

          • BeeceeinLA

            don’t forget that boeheim had this habit of playing prevent defense by holding the ball when he had a lead; this held down the offense when they could have scored a lot more points instead of winning squeakers playing not to lose.

      • Max

        worked up? I’ll admit i forgot my blood pressure pill this morning, but no one’s worked up.

        Just be happy. For a day. Have some hope. Perhaps I over reacted because the negativity irked me. My bad

        • ClevelandFrowns

          What negativity? I’m just pointing out facts, including ones that give cause for optimism. Go home and get your blood pressure pill.

          Also, I have all kinds of hope that the Curse of Wahoo (and the Curse of Gilbert) will continue to vindicate basic principles of karmic justice and evince a benevolent metaphysical order. I’m the most hopeful (and happiest) Cleveland sports fan there is.

          • St.Chem

            But whatever happened to “nice guys finish last”? Seems like your thesis is that the benevolent metaphysical order metes out karmic justice in Cleveland, but I don’t see the evidence of this happening in other cities. (I know this is a website about Cleveland, Browns, and things). This seems to put us at a pretty major competitive disadvantage, no?

          • ClevelandFrowns

            No other city has Chief Wahoo, which absolutely does put us at a major competitive disadvantage. Not sure I follow your point, or where “nice guys finish last” fits in, but to the extent that’s true about nice guys, it’s only because we let folks like Gilbert buy the laws.

          • bupalos

            >>>What negativity? I’m just pointing out facts>>>

            Alfred E Pattakos. I think we found a new motto for the site!

          • ClevelandFrowns

            You obviously have no idea how these things work.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Love it Bupa,
            “Alfred E Pattakos”
            “What, me worry?”

          • Believelander

            Bup, you don’t get it. These curses are how stuff works, and also gravitational pulls from other planets smaller than the gravitational pull of the average house cat have overt consequences on one’s characteristic makeup and destiny. It’s just how stuff works. Science has proved hasn’t disproved it.

      • Believelander

        People aren’t comparing him to Dwyane Wade because they think he’s going to be Dwyane Wade or are predicting he’s going to be Dwyane Wade. They’re comparing him to Dwyane Wade as the closest NBA ‘name’ to Dion Waiters’ build, athletic talent, skill set, and style of play. Speaking of inconsistent jump shots: Dwyane Wade (still. 9 seasons in).

        So don’t worry, we Cavs fans have it all in perspective.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          Believe,
          I love you but, there is no such thing as “gravity”.
          While we are at it, time is our silly creation to quantify our own obsolescence, and mass is but a figment of a Newtonian imagination.
          However, I am on your side about curses.
          I really hope that our brilliant and eloquent Frownie is just acting like he believes in curses because he is not a racist.

          • Believelander

            This seems rational, but I have to respectfully disagree with the assertion that there are no such things as gravity, time, and mass.

  • p_forever

    it might be quiet on the cleveland sports scene but le tour starts saturday – you know, the most grueling individual athletic feat known to man? here’s a helpful link, and a preview of this year’s course, for all of you:

    http://www.letour.fr/2012/TDF/COURSE/us/le_parcours.html

    #polkadotjersey rules

    • actovegin1armstrong

      And most importantly Doper Boy Armstrong will be going to prison soon and the UCI can start to finally clean up cycling.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        Honest question – do people really care if cycling is cleaned up? The ratings for the Clemens trial were God awful, and that was baseball – a sport people actually care about.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          I coached a lot of kids who went to the wrong side, very much against my instruction.
          Some of them died of arterial agglutination in the early rEPO/recombinant days and others suffered from strange forms of cancer, (it was brain cancer not testicular) for Juicer Boy too.
          When the talented and honest kids lose to JACKASS dopers there is a reason to clean up the sport.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Never thought about it from that point of view. I completely agree with you.

      • Believelander

        To be fair, I’m a HUGE baseball fan. I lap it up. I care intensely about the restoration of baseball’s credibility, but I ain’t watching some stuffy courtroom proceedings. The verdict is all that matters to the average sports fan.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      And, to please the hosting masses, a Frenchman shall win the polka dots this year.
      As long as Sammy Sanchez tries for the General Classification.

      • p_forever

        Do you agree the polka dot jersey is the best?

        • actovegin1armstrong

          No, I love the GC jersey from the Giro, my favorite is from Roche in 1987. (Pink is my favorite color.)
          I used to wear a TdF climber’s jersey when I trained, real cyclist would always get a good laugh from seeing an obvious sprinter in a polka dot jersey.
          I was at least 80 lbs heavier than any of our grimpers.

          • p_forever

            I love that you wore the spots. I also love pink – it really is the best.
            Are you a greg lemond fan? He, like you, has Texas connections and hates lance armstrong.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Why are you interested in cycling p_4?
            I really like Lemond.
            Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick

            The only pro team jersey l have is the 1990 Zed Jersey. (I still think it is the best team jersey ever, with the Mondrian style La Vie Claire in second.)

            What are Lemond’s Texas connections?

            I have chatted with him briefly a couple of times, once in Minnesota and once in Wisconsin.
            I have never seen him in Texas.

            Lemond is often persecuted because he tells the truth.

            He said Landis doped. Landis denied it and Lemond was vilified.
            Then Landis got caught and apologized to Lemond.

            He questioned Contador, Doper Boy’s ex-lieutenant.
            Lemond was “proven wrong” by Contador apologists.
            Then Contador got caught.

            He said Nance Deadwrong was a doper.
            Doper boy has been caught many times, Testosterone, EPO, Actovegin, et cetera, but every time there is some fake prescription, lame excuse, or it is just swept under the rug.

          • p_forever

            hey acto sorry it took so long to respond -

            i was a complete cycling know-nothing until i watched every single second of le tour the summer of 2003 – in case you don’t remember, it was one of the infamous “lance v mighty german” tours. it was an especially good one because lance fell twice; and the mighty german’s bike kept breaking down but lance would wait for him; and the thing was up for grabs until the last day (well the day before the last day which, as you know, is typically more ceremonial than anything else); and i’ve been hooked on le tour ever since. the mountain stages are clearly the best, and that’s why i got so into the polka dots. i feel like rasmussen got the polka dots in 2003 – but weirdly he kept crashing for no apparent reason during the final stages so he wasn’t really in it in the end.

            the thing about lemond is that he is way too self righteous and cranky about the whole “my proper place in cycling history” thing, and just so obvious about his hatred of armstrong. i understand that it’s lemond, not armstrong, that put american cycling on the map. it’s also clear that had he not been in that awful hunting accident (see all the reasons why NOT to hate and why to be PRO gun control) lemond might have won nearly as many tours as armstrong (or at least another one). but open and obvious jealousy (of armstrong for getting the legacy that should have been his) combined with contempt and hatred for armstrong and any other american cyclist that is compared to lemon in any way (see, e.g., landis) is just neither attractive nor acceptable, no matter what the circumstances. there are lots of ways to critique/point out deficiencies without being an absolute jerk about it. maybe it’s unfair, but until he learns some of them, not a lot of people are going to consider lemond anything other than a bitter has-been.*

            *again – for the record – i don’t think this characterization of lemond is fair; i also think that lemond could speak out against doping and etc without coming off as a jerk (i’m not suggesting he should compromise his principles – i’m suggesting he should put aside his self-righteous attitude), and i really wish he would learn to do that.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Syracuse and North Carolina. I like it. Turn them all over to Byron Scott to work his magic. This is going to be good.

  • Ronnie

    Crapping on a pick because he was the sixth man in college is about as nuanced as calling Mangini an awful coach because he only won 10 games in two years.

    While both statements are true, they are pretty reductive.

    I realize NBA isn’t your strong suit, but from now on, instead of wasting words, why not just show a picture of Dan Gilbert followed by a picture of your middle finger? It’ll save you time that could be better spent on other worthwhile topics.

  • ChuckKoz

    From Pluto:

    “Some will compare it to Russell Westbrook going to Oklahoma City at No. 4 in 2008. After a sophomore season at UCLA where he averaged 12.7 points, 4.3 assists and shot 47 percent (34 percent on 3-pointers), many media members were shocked when Westbrook went that high.”

    Considering their college careers, draft day rise, and size seem to be very similar, I think the Russell Westbrook comparison is more apt.

    And of course he could be a bust, but bottom line is that it seems like the type of risky boom or bust pick a team like cleveland needs to gamble on

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      I like the Westbrook comparison a lot.

      “Possibly more than any team in the league, Seattle’s adventure on Thursday is one that cannot really be properly evaluated for at least two to three years. In terms of value, the Sonics’ draft could go either way. Russell Westbrook is a player that may or may not prove to be worthy of starting at either backcourt position in the NBA and taking him fourth was definitely a gamble looking at some of the other players that were on the board here.”

      Meanwhile, 4 years later after Rose shredded his knee, Westbrook ended up being the best guard in the draft.

      • Believelander

        Ah, but did Russell Westbrook get intro’d at a Hornets game by Will Farrell? I think not. Derrick Rose 1, Russell Westbrook 2.

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

          I don’t know, I’d personally rather have Westbrook with two healthy knees. Before Rose’s knee went through a wood chipper? I would have absolutely taken him over Westbrook.

          • Believelander

            Oh I agree completely. I just like Will Farrell.

  • nj0

    Sounds like the type of player Cleveland should embrace – a guy with a rough background who had to learn some humility along the way and now has something to prove. Plus, he says he’s excited by the passion of the fans and the city.

    I don’t know squat about evaluating college basketball players, but I like the cut of his jib.

    • The Curse of Yahoo!

      Now, remember, when Waiters leaves to go to Miami in seven years, it’s not his fault, it’s that precise background that drove him to leave the city that embraced him. Hard to blame him, really.

      • nj0

        If he’s that good and we can’t win with him in seven years, then that’s on us.

        Also, nobody is at fault when a person acts on his or her basic human right to work where he or she wants.

        • bupalos

          >>>Also, nobody is at fault when a person acts on his or her basic human right to work where he or she wants.
          >>>

          Basic human right…workplace…bosses… got it.

          • nj0

            He also loves… billiards.

  • Jim

    I think the Cavs would have taken MKG if he fell to four. Wasn’t crazy about Barnes, and apparently the Cavs weren’t either. They definitely needed talent on the wings, and all the tape I’ve seen shows that Waiters is definitely athletic. I don’t think the fact that he was a “super sub” has any real bearing on his potential for success in the NBA, plus he was on the floor for the Orange during crunch time.

    The Cavs probably could have traded back and still gotten Waiters, but if they had no willing trade partner, or really thought he was their man, I don’t really have an issue with it. We will see if it pans out.

    Love the Zeller trade however. Athletic center who can run the floor and shoot are hard to come by. He was a projected lottery pick and Cavs got him for what basically amounted to two second round picks who would have been D-League projects anyways.

    • The Curse of Yahoo!

      Agreed re Zeller (even if he’s just a backup center, he’s got to be better than Samardoooooo). That said, I was sads that they didn’t keep at least one of those picks to draft the vaunted Turkish rebounder Furkan Aldemir (15.9 rebounds per game somewhere in Europe).

      Because You Don’t Mess with the Furkan.

      • Jim

        Interestingly enough the Cavs were trying to get back into the second round to draft Aldemir.

        • The Curse of Yahoo!

          Agreed. I guess they got their Euro rebounder who won’t play in the NBA for a while last year in Macvan.

          • Jim

            I believe they still have Kahn from Kansas too. He actually may be brought over this season; although with Zeller in the fold now who knows.

          • The Curse of Yahoo!

            KAAAAAAAAAAAUN!!!!

      • Believelander

        The Zohan disapproves of this message.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      It’s hard not to like the Zeller pick.

      • Justin

        Gotta love that we got Kelenna Azubuike in return as well. He’s missed most of the last 2 seasons after a patellar tendon tear, but prior to that he was a 26 year old who shot 45% from 3 and scored almost 15 ppg for an entire season. Its a long shot that he gets back to this type of productivity, but I’m glad we took a flier on this guy (he’s still only 28!)

      • ClevelandFrowns

        Though here’s one idea: http://www.sbnation.com/2012/6/29/3125327/nba-draft-grades-grading-the-east-where-the-bobcats-are-finally/in/2878299

        Why not take Harrison Barnes — who’s at least four inches taller than Waiters and more athletic — and use the other three picks to fill out your rotation with players like Perry Jones (24), Draymond Green (33) and Quincy Miller (34)?

        The Cavs already have their franchise superstar, but the rest of their rotation isn’t quite there yet. So a draft like this was perfect: There was only one franchise superstar, but tons of great rotation players. And I still don’t understand how all they wound up with was Waiters and Zeller. Maybe Waiters is way better than we realize, but probably not, right? And maybe Zeller is something more than a career backup that they traded three picks for, but… GRADE: D

        • BIKI024

          assuming they do NOT give Boobie a Team option, including the draft picks we only have 8 guys signed. resign Gee so that gives us 6 open spots so maybe rolling the dice on the 2 extra picks would’ve been nice. but it’s rare, extremely rare for 2nd rounders to pan out, and even guys at 24.. i think their plan was to use their surplus of picks to move up. draft 2, max of 3 players. they got 2 guys projected in Top 7- 12 in nearly every mock draft I’ve seen. not bad value via flipping the 4, 24, 33 and 34, not bad at all.

        • Jim

          Harrison Barnes got worked when he went head-to-head with the four inches shorter Bradley Beal during the pre-draft workouts in Cleveland. His height is one of the least irrelevant factors about how his game will translate to the NBA. He is also nowhere near the athlete Dion Waiters is. You don’t even have to watch basketball to know that. Pull up scouting videos on each. Five minutes you can tell who is more athletic.

          PJIII would have been nice, but remember, 26 other teams also passed on the guy. There was a reason.

          Draymond Green is a decent player who could be a rotation player but I don’t think the Cavs “missed” on drafting him.

          I would have like Miller, however. He arguably was better than his more publicized teammate PJIII.

        • Believelander

          This is why you don’t link sbnation.com: because without even clicking on the link to read the rest of that, the excerpt quoted is filled to the brim with dumb.

          Then again, I fully support sbnation.com Featured Contributor Andrew Sharp’s right to write this much dumb in two small paragraphs.

          After all, as the quote on his profile page states:
          “Opinions is like a Escalade, everybody got one”
          – Professor Jeezy

    • Believelander

      A number of different sports media types stated that Boeheim is old school and tends to start his seniors and juniors over his younger talent. Also, several pointed out that Waiters’ minutes per game were higher than most of the starters, so I think that certainly qualifies for a ‘super’ sub.

      • Beeceeinla

        waiters was #4 in total minutes played, and yeah, the two starting guards were upperclassmen.

  • NeedsFoodBadly

    re: the curse of wahoo – The Indianapolis minor league team is also called the Indians, and I think their logo is pretty neat. I don’t recall anyone bringing it up during the recent Wahoo debates, but check it out.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      I like that logo.

      Would a logo change cure Frownie’s “Curse of Chief Wahoo”?

      Then how about keeping the name Indians and making the logo a casino?

  • The Curse of Yahoo!

    BTW Frownie, excellent point about leaving the SF spot open for LeBron’s inevitable return (ostensibly in 2014, if we are to believe the way they’re structuring their salaries/picks to leave cap space open). One of the first things that crossed my mind when Dion Waiters’ name was announced.

    • BIKI024

      my thoughts exactly. leave the door open for Bron! i mean, Wade is already kind of creaky as it is, and he’ll be 32 when their contract is up. Lebron will most likely take a look around the NBA landscape again and look to where he can win multiple championships and it seems to me that a core of KI, TT, DW, along with role players like Zeller and whoever else we draft next 2 drafts as well as via FA would be very enticing for Bron. Waiters has potential to be a Top 10 SG in the league, and KI is already there. so if all of you are right about Bron being a frontrunner and wanting to take the easy route, it seems we would probably give him the best opportunity, and oh by the way, he can play hometown hero and get everyone in NEO to like him again. (except for racist white folk)

    • Beeej

      Can we please please please get a giant COOL IT on the speculation of what LeBron is going to do in 2 years??? The stuff leading up to and following the T.V. special were bad enough. 1. He is not coming back. 2. There is no need to talk about even the slightest possibility of that happening until June of 2014. 3. Where’ the fife? 4. Gimmie the fife.

      • bupalos

        Agreed it’d be a great thing to shut up about, but I think it’s a distinct possibility. My mistake all along was not thinking of Lebron as a brand. He went to Miami as insurance for that brand thinking no rings was the worst thing that could happen. He badly overplayed it and screwed it up and did himself financial damage just as big as no rings would have been. Now that he’s got the insurance, the best next move for that brand is fix the damage and heal the rift of fans v. superfans.

        • BIKI024

          exactamundo. again, we are building the team nicely that it would be a great destination for any free agent to want to be a part of. if lebron comes or not, so be it, but we are definitely building a team. i’m sure they will be content in riding Alonzo Gee’s extension for a couple more years and then seeing how FA and draft play out. but i don’t think they expect this current team to be a high lotto again, so it was good that they didn’t go SF this year because they would’ve had to commit to him.

        • Beeej

          Both of you COOL IT!!!

        • BIKI024

          re: Akron/Brady, you are correct sir, they are 2 different places. as an akronite at a high school with plenty of clevelanders, there was definitely a lot of smack talk fromt he clevelanders on how they thought they were cooler because they are from the “big city”.

          • bupalos

            cooler than you??!

          • BIKI024

            come on son, of course not. i’m cooler than a polar bear’s toenails

          • bupalos

            >>>>come on son, of course not. i’m cooler than a polar bear’s toenails>>>

            No doubt. It was just a rhetorical question.

        • Believelander

          Turns out going to Miami was worse for his brand than finishing a career as the best player never to win a championship would have been. Fortunately for him, and honestly for Cleveland, he’s repairing both his image and bridges. Not to mention he finally took the shrink wrap off and learned to dominate the way he needs to dominate.

      • BIKI024

        that’s right, because you would get so emotional about it and you can’t stand the chance of being publicly humiliated again by that monster of a human being. don’t tease me lebron, please don’t tease me!

        • Beeej

          Tom Brady is going to be a free agent in 2015. By that time, thanks to Hog-ram, the Browns should have all the pieces for a great team in place. Let’s talk about Brady coming to Cleveland. Cue background music from when South Park explains how Joseph Smith founded the Mormon religion.

          http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104253/joseph-smith-part-1

          • BIKI024

            OMG, how dare you tease me with thought of Tom Brady in UGGs in Cleveland!?!?!

          • Beeej

            Our O-line will be full of studly veterans. T-Rich will be in his prime, and by 2015 we should have receivers on the team. Plus, UGGs are great for the tough winters. Brady is totally coming to Cleveland.

          • BIKI024

            wait a sec, is Brady from Akron?? DERP.

          • Beeej

            He went to Michigan, and said he absolutely loves the Midwest. Brady is coming to Cleveland…in three years…but probably not…but let’s spend the next three years speculating about it…You are starting to remind me of the crazy ex girlfriend that watches her ex boyfriend leave, get married, have kids, and yet she is still convinced that he is coming back because they were meant to be. He’s from Akron. It’s fate. I know in like 3 years he is going to leave his wife and kids to come back to me.

            I would love to meet you in person one day so we could pass the peace pipe and talk about non LBJ related things, like if God could microwave a burrito so hot that not even He could bite into it.

            If it makes you feel any better I also got all “emotional” over Pope-a-thon 2005 when JPII was dying. CNN (my only source for English TV news) was on 24 hours a day with hard hitting questions like, “What happens to a young healthy person when they get a UTI? Hmmm. Not bad. What if the person is 89 and in terrible shape? Wow, that’s much more serious. Stay tuned for when we find out why old people have a harder time recovering from illness. After that we have a story on the best ways to watch paint dry. This is CNN.”

          • bupalos

            How does whether he’s from akron have any effect whatsoever on whether he’d want to play in Cleveland? You act like those are not two totally different places.

          • BIKI024

            dude, it’s a game. it’s a friggin sport. i could honestly care less if he came back or not. but it is fun to speculate, because unlike some people, i realize it’s a friggin game, and for entertainment purposes only. sorry, i guess all my emotions have been wasted and spent on my crazy ex-girlfriends and work and too much MDMA, so I just don’t have enough serotonin left to care if i get “emotionally scarred” on hoping that he actually comes back or not.

          • Believelander

            Do any of your crazy ex-girlfriends have phone numbers?

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Biki,
            I appreciate the reference, but I would venture to guess that you are too young to have ever had the real stuff.

            July 14th 1984 is a day that shall live on in infamy.

            Before then it was 4 for $20 at almost any drug store, or “Stop-N-Rob”.

          • bupalos

            >>>@biki024 I would love to meet you in person one day so we could pass the peace pipe>>>

            Peace pipe indeed.

            Cue CTIL, cue CTIL

            goddam it where are the cards with the hippie rant?

          • Beeej

            Biki, our mutual friend Henry, and I could sit around passing the peace pipe* and work out our differences. He could school me on what it really means to be a fan of every sport there ever was, while I attempted to spout off one-liners and attempt to convince him that I am generally apathetic to to most things LBJ (with exception to overblown 24/7 LBJ coverage/speculation).

            *for tobacco use only

          • CleveLandThatILove

            Bup, unplug your car, grab your bongos and meet them both at Maproom. You’ll find Biki outside.

          • Beeej

            I’ll be the guy in Birkenstocks and no deodorant.

      • The Curse of Yahoo!

        And just to add to the above very valid points and counterpoints from Beee, bupalos and BIKI, I’ll say that I have no idea if LeBron ever would come back or if that’s in the realm of pure and unadulterated fiction, nor do I (try to) let speculation about what may or may not happen in 2014 and beyond ruin the hopes surrounding Irving and maybe Thompson and (we’ll see) Waiters and Zeller.

        What i will say is that it’s a nice little cushion and a fun little tale to tell–if an imature one at that–as unlikely as the image of LeBron and Danny G(ilbert) hugging it out at a return press conference is. Because, though I wanted MKG, I’m fine with MKG, Waiters or even that big lug Drummond if LeBron came back in a few years.

        But I suppose that’s not the point, or that it shouldn’t be. For now, I’ll just say–I’m excited about Irving, think Thompson could be good, and hope that Waiters and Zeller serve as the next few building blocks for this team (and whoever coaches it after Byron Scott gets fired in 2014*).

        *Sorry for the low blow, but I’m not a fan of Byron Scott. But that’s a discussion for another day.

  • Jim

    Great article by Windhorst from the Cavs’ draft room: http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8111377/2012-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers-scenes

    The front office clearly has a vision and sticks to it. Knowing they needed a wing, and knowing that they had MKG, Beal, and Waiters rated the highest at those positions makes me much more comfortable with the first pick.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Here’s a different take from SBNation’s Mike Prada:

      http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/6/29/3125344/nba-draft-2012-michael-kidd-gilchrist-bradley-beal

      “[T]he Cavaliers pulled the trigger with much trepidation. Of course, they didn’t paint it that way. General manager Chris Grant told Cleveland reporters that they’ve never done more research on a player than they did with Waiters, conveniently ignoring the fact that they never interviewed him, watched him work out or gave him a physical. But unless the Cavaliers fooled everyone, this was clearly their backup plan.

      “I didn’t even talked to Cleveland,” Waiters said. “I didn’t even work out for Cleveland.”

      One day earlier, Waiters was engaged in an awkward discussion at media day about reports that the Phoenix Suns gave him a promise at No. 13. Waiters was asked directly about the reports, and he stared dumbfounded at the reporter, repeatedly telling him that he didn’t know what he was talking about. At the end of the exchange, he was asked to try to explain how his stock kept rising when he wasn’t doing anything.

      “I don’t know,” he said, laughing uncomfortably. “It’s a blessing, not having to go through that and my name still rises.”

      Read the whole thing.

      • Ronnie

        From yesterday at 10:20 AM

        Cleveland has intensified its background checks on Waiters, and sources in direct contact with Cavs officials believe Waiters would be the franchise’s choice over Kansas’ Thomas Robinson should the Charlotte Bobcats select Michael Kidd-Gilchrist at No. 2, and the Washington Wizards take Beal at No. 3.

        • Ronnie
        • ClevelandFrowns

          Right. As Prada notes, “of course they didn’t paint it that way.” What is this supposed to tell us?

          • BIKI024

            it’s supposed to tell you that every frickin NBA team has contingency plans, who knows who they would’ve taken if Beal was still there, but the fact is, there was a high probability that he wouldn’t be there so they picked Waiters. again, it’s not a shock, many media reports of the Cavs liking Waiters even before the draft. stick to football frownie

          • Believelander

            ^this.
            Chris Grant: “We need to have a contingency plan in case Bradley Beal gets drafted. He’s the best SG prospect in the draft. A 2 is our biggest need. David, what do you think is the best contingency plan here?”

            David Griffin: “Well, we could always take the second best 2 in the draft.”

            Grant: “You mean Waiters? We haven’t even worked him out.”

            Griffin: “Yeah boss, but he’s pretty much the consensus #2 SG prospect. And Barnes and Robinson aren’t really head and shoulders better prospects than him at their positions.”

            Grant: “Well…all right. But Pete Pattakos is going to have my ass on a plate for this.”

            Griffin: “You mean the football guy?”

            Grant: “Look man, that guy’s a fricking animal. You should see how Dan cries at night. He hardly even tweets anymore.”

            Griffin: “Scary stuff.”

          • Ronnie

            That they went to great lengths to plant a story 10 hours before the pick to justify their “trepidation.” <– summary opinion with no evidence = worthless bullshit

            Of course it was "clearly their backup plan," though. They even said as much. They had MKG #1 and Waiters #2.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            You can keep clicking your heels and repeating that to yourself, Dorothy, but Prada puts forth plenty of evidence to support his claim, including that the Cavs “never interviewed [Waiters], watched him work out or gave him a physical.”

            If there was so much foresight behind this, they’d have been able to get the kid to Cleveland for a look and a few words given they were holding the 4th pick and all.

            Also, telling a reporter that you’ve “intensified your background searches” on a guy who you know you’re going to use the fourth pick on without ever having met him isn’t “planting a story.” It’s a press release.

            Anyway, click click click, go Cavs. Tell Lima that I miss him the next time you text him.

          • BIKI024

            @ClevelandFrowns who’s to say they didn’t try to bring him to Cleveland? Rob Pelinka, his agent, advised not to visit or talk to anyone. plus CG is tight with a couple guys on coaching staff at Cuse, including Boeheim, not too mention all the footage. Byron said he watched each and every game the kid played. not sure what having him come in for a cup of coffee was going to do. the tape don’t lie.

          • The Curse of Yahoo!

            For the record, had Anthony Davis fallen to #4, I totally woulda drafted the guy. Heard great things about him, would have waived the interview and workout.

      • The Curse of Yahoo!

        In fairness, “I didn’t even talked (sic) to Cleveland…I didn’t even work out for Cleveland” is as true for Cleveland as it would have been for Golden State, Sacramento or Timbuktu (other than Phoenix). But he’s too talented for someone in the lottery not to take him despite the lack of having a Starbucks meeting where Waiters talks about how he thinks he’ll do well and seeing Waiters dunk on a chair.

    • http://twitter.com/byRiverBurns River Burns

      What? The Heat draft wasn’t good enough for him to cover?

      It’s a good thing Windy has the poor ol’ Cavs to do a token piece on when he wants to visit Ohio in the summer. That said, it was well done, and I would have probably enjoyed it, had anyone else written it.

  • Kylemraz

    So let’s compare wade’s upper classman years on a team where he was “the man” to an underclass man who had tons of talent around him…seems fair (rolls eyes), I like the pick…tough, aggressive scorer with Irving!! Could waiters do what wade did in two more years at cuse…absolutely…just glad we got him before that happened.

    • BIKI024

      thas right!

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Wade left as a junior, but OK.

      • BIKI024

        Marquette was in a very weak Conference USA back then, whereas the Big East is one of the best conferences in basketball. Wade is an unbelievable talent, but when you watch this kid play, you see that he has very similar technique that Wade does in terms of his ability to slash and get to the hole. Byron Scott isn’t one to give out compliments like that, especially to rookies and he’s ear-to-ear on this kid. Just watched the presser and they are all very excited about him. while obviously Zeller doesn’t have the upside as Dion, they were also very excited about having him as well and Zeller made some good points about what he can bring to the offense and defense. unless we get more injuries I can’t see Zelelr playing more than 20 a game, but he’s a huge upgrade over the junk we had with Hollins, Erden, Samardo, etc.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          The Cavs are excited about the guys they just drafted? Crazy! So we’ve got the next DWade. This is going to be great.

          • BIKI024

            dude, i get it, ease up on the comparisons to an nba all-time great. my only point was watch his footage and you can see why there are the comparisons. but again, Byron rarely ever talks up rookies, so i think it’s interesting that he’s so into this kid. but yeah, he’s just a suit too trying to sell tickets. since kyrie is so boring and all.

        • Beeej

          Yes but how does he compare to Wade as far as complaining to the refs and getting phantom calls? That’s what I’d like to know.

          • BIKI024

            oh please. show me an nba player/superstar that doesn’t complain to the refs. CHILD PLEASE

          • Beeej

            George Muresan?

            I’m not sure if you realize it yet, but about 90% of what I say here is tongue in cheek.

            In other words (at about the 1:30 mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFMWNgDO7ZU

          • The Curse of Yahoo!

            I’d like for someone to establish a rating system (from 1 to 5 stars) for the degree of incredulousness/anger a player shows in reacting to calls, maybe ranging from “(turns head) you called THAT a foul?” to “you, sir, are a pox on the generation of athletes”. Or something.

      • The Curse of Yahoo!

        About right, but let’s be precise–he was a junior who played two years (academic ineligibility knocked out his chances of playing his freshman year, but who doesn’t that happen to).

    • Khip

      So Waiters is going to convince Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist to come to Cleveland in 2019?!?!?!?

      • BIKI024

        and Kyrie

  • Jim

    Not entirely sure how “revisionist” Grant’s “history pitch” is in the Windhorst story. Windhorst’s story begins 5 1/2 hours before the draft when Grant tells him: “We’re going for a wing at No. 4,” Grant said in the afternoon. “We’re probably not coming out of this with four players, you don’t want to have four rookies. I’m thinking two, maybe three; I’d prefer two.”

    Which is exactly what the Cavs did. He also told Windhorst that the Cavs had Waiters high on their list, which is fully supported by all the reports coming out of Cleveland yesterday about how they liked Waiters. He never said anything about “talking to” or “working out” Waiters because Waiters did not work out for any team prior to the draft.

    So unless Chris Grant has access to a Deloreon and traveled back in time to interview with Brian Windhorst after the draft ended, it seems to me what he told Windhorst prior to the draft coincides nicely with what they planned to do and actually did do.

    • Ronnie

      It’s clear that Prada’s opinion should be weighed more heavily than a eyewitness account of the proceedings. Windhorst is probably lying.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        An eyewitness to the issuance of a press release. Brilliant.

        Prada’s point is that after having months to plan, the Cavs backed into the Waiters pick with trepidation having not spoken to him, worked him out, or given him a physical. Nothing they said to Windhorst or anyone else on draft day contradicts that.

        • The Curse of Yahoo!

          So no one (other than the Suns) should have taken Waiters. Got it.

        • BIKI024

          sweet feathury jesus

        • Ronnie

          “ESPN.com writer Brian Windhorst was embedded with the Cavaliers on draft day. ..This is how it all happened behind the scenes.”

          For all of the words you’ve used tearing down Grossi for opining on high, you should appreciate a reporter getting in tight with the subject material.

          Weird. But yeah, Prada seems to have a handle on this. Let’s let him run with it.

          • bupalos

            Windhorst….Lebron….Cavs draft room….The spice is the worm…the worm is the spice…

          • Beeej

            No mention of lasguns?

          • ClevelandFrowns

            This is so stupid. There’s reporting and there’s analysis. Nothing in Windhorst’s reporting undercuts Prada’s analysis. That’s all.

          • Believelander

            There’s analysis, then there’s dumb analysis. Nothing in Prada’s analysis undercuts Prada’s dumb analysis.

          • Believelander

            Who is Mike Prada?

        • Believelander

          Prada’s point and Sharp’s point are both dumb. They have no proof. Their ‘evidence’ relies on one point: that Waiters didn’t work out or interview with the Cavaliers. The same way he didn’t work out or interview with any other NBA team. This glosses over the obvious point that the Cavs, rumored to be targeting Beal and attempting to trade up to acquire him, were obviously looking to address a serious talent lack at the 2. After Beal was picked, they selected the clear-cut best 2-guard prospect available. The fact that he was obviously the backup plan (huh? the second best prospect at the position was the backup plan!?!?!?!?!) is meaningless; they had already determined that Waiters was going to be the pick there if they couldn’t make an advantageous trade and Beal was gone. Prada will have some evidence in 3 years if Waiters sucks.

  • Believelander

    This post has clarified everything for me as to why we didn’t draft Harrison Barnes. Now we have young talent that will hopefully pan out at every position except the 3. Dan Gilbert and LeBron must already be hanging out.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    If Chris Perez finds out there are 90 comments on a Cavs draft pick he is going to be pissed off…

    /how do I forward this to him?

    • bupalos

      Perfect.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Comment of the Year nominee.

    • Believelander

      All you have to do is buy two Indians tickets and go cheer for the team, and Chris Perez will add you to his e-mail contacts.

  • nj0

    re: the promise from the Suns to draft Waiters

    Does the NBA not consider this tampering or is it an accepted under the table sort of thing like with pre-draft salary negotions in MLB?

    • The Curse of Yahoo!

      If it were in writing or otherwise enforceable, maybe. But they aren’t, because no team would commit itself in that fashion nor would any team bear the risk of getting in trouble for it.

      That said, would be a fun scenario if a player received a written promise, cancelled workouts because of it, and dropped in the draft because he wasn’t selected by that team. Potential estoppel claim to the max.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    Completely off topic, but given that there is a rather sizable legal audience on this forum, I thought this would be enjoyable.

    http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/local-news/fred-davis-attorney-at-law-the-courtroom-transcripts.php

    This is freaking awesome stuff here.

  • Petefranklin

    Did Ohio recently repeal it’s state income tax? Thought that was why the queen took a pay cut to go to Florida. Remember he’d have to take another 10% pay cut to sign in Cleveland. And if the prospect of James returning had anything to do with this years draft then the best I can say about the FO is at least they didn’t pass on Irving.

    • Believelander

      The idea that the state income tax issue had anything to do with LeBron going to Miami is utter nonsense. Pete, can I get an amen?

  • Believelander

    So hey, how about those Indians getting back above .500 last night? Even after going on a 5-loss bender, they’re still dogging the heels of those damn ChiSox. Interestingly, Johnny Damon has dragged himself back up above the Mendoza line, belted 4 homers, and is doggedly closing in on .300 OBP and .700 OPS. Ubaldo and Masterson are starting to put up more good starts than bad starts, and we haven’t even had sniff of Grady Sizemore or Roberto Hernandez yet, let alone any deadline deals the Tribe front office might make. There’s just so much POSITIVE stuff to be excited about in Cleveland sports these days, whether you wear blue and red, orange and brown, or wine and gold.

    • Petefranklin

      I’d say the tax free state of florida was definitely in the top 3 reasons the queen left. And since you insist….AMEN BROTHER!!!

      • Believelander

        Makes no sense. The Cavs had the capability to re-sign him for a max contract which he didn’t get in Miami. At best the state tax break is a wash on his contract. Not to mention a drop in the bucket compared to his Nike, Sprite, and other endorsement deals. And frankly, people with enough money to hire expensive tax lawyers don’t pay a whole lot of taxes regardless.

        To boot, the Cavs could have handled sign&trades for both Bosh and Wade, but they just didn’t want to come here. State tax just can’t figure that prominently into it. These guys’ earning portfolios make their NBA salaries small by comparison.

        • bupalos

          You’re missing a couple things here Bleeland. First, he did sign in Cleveland. We then traded him to Miami. He negotiated down from max to get everyone to fit (this is the most questionable aspect of this to me from league perspective) but he wasn’t restricted by what Miami was allowed to offer.

          Second, while it’s possible for people who make their money from a lot of different sources or from their own business to lawyer a lot of income out of existence, this is probably not so for the “employees” of NBA teams. It’s just such straight cut and dried salary that I doubt you can do much. The state tax advantage only applies however to home games. I think forbes or someone did the total numbers and in the end it resulted in a net +5% for James which slightly more than compensated for the lower salary he colluded with his fellow “employees” to accept. But you’re right that the #1 souce of income for James is his marketing, and protecting or enhancing that by moving for an easy championship was likely the primary motivation.

          • BIKI024

            “easy championship” – LOL

          • bupalos

            That was mostly for you, biki, BUT:

            “not one, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5….”

            “…once the game start it’s gonna be easy.”

            Not saying it wasn’t harder than he thought, just that he thought it would be easy and that’s why he went.

          • BIKI024

            really, what is the statute of limitations of him being crucified for trying to energize his fan base. it wasn’t a press conference to the public, it was a party for the Miami Heat fans and they admitedly said they got caught up in the moment. i mean, it is what it is. good grief.

            if it was “easy” for him to put up the type of numbers he did the entire season and most importantly in the playoffs, than sweet feathury jesus, i sure hope he comes back and gets few rings for us.

  • Believelander

    #Windians! Great weekend down in the BAL.

    In Cavs news, I decided to jump on the Frownie bandwagon with Dion Waiters. Hopefully the guy isn’t the next Dwyane Wade; that dude’s a jerk.

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