Jobs, Jobs, Jobs: Horseshoe Casino employees “crying after they looked at their paychecks”

by Cleveland Frowns on June 13, 2012

In case you missed it last week, Scene ran a report by Vince Grzegorek on massive attrition at Dan Gilbert’s new Horseshoe casino in Cleveland. Grzegorek quotes casino employees who speak of 11-hour days and $6 per hour shifts, supplemented by “all but nonexistent” tips.

“I saw four people crying after they looked at their paychecks,” said one source. “Some people are really flipping their shit.”

Gilbert’s Rock Gaming Co. says, “it’s casino business as usual,” which seems right.

A few Rock Gaming PR folks show up in the comments at the Scene piece to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the complaints expressed in the report, while other commenters provide additional detail in support of the complaints. In any event, it’s something to think about in considering whether giving a select group of billionaires the exclusive right to prey on society’s weakest by way of casino games is a good idea because it creates jobs.

In other news, here’s Seneca Wallace on the least interesting quarterback controversy of all time. And it was a good basketball game last night. Looking forward to another good one tomorrow. Also, big ups to Cleveland Frowns for relentless work in breaking through a frozen sea of ignorance and intolerance in the comments to yesterday’s NBA Finals Preview post. Relentless and amazing work. Amazing.

Alright, back tomorrow or Friday with something important. Hope everyone has a decent go of it in the meantime.

  • ChuckKoz

    the casino should ban players that don’t tip.

    and since you seemed to have open the door to continuing the arguments from below, lets clarify an irrefutable flaw to one of your points yesterday (albeit a minor one): the apparently evil “tanking” that was orchestrated by Clay Bennet to pull off a move to OKC…..

    1) He bought the team just before the 2006-07 season.

    2) At the start of the season the city of Seattle voted against any funding for an arena.

    3) The team continued to go on, playing respectable basketball and in the playoff mix. Then Ray Allen goes down with an injury, missing all of March/April. The Sonics fall apart w/out their best player, end with a record of 31-51. Absurd to say this was intentional tanking to lose the fan base (even though that fan base actually just voted against a new arena anyway, but there was still a chance at a suburban arena)

    4) Then in 07-08, with Durant, they did what any smart team would do and traded the aging Allen for assets and built around Durant.

    So, again, feel free to boast LB & Akron and many other reasonable points, but its really silly to keep having this vendetta against the owners.

    Especially when LBs new owner kills people on vacation (sort of)

    • ClevelandFrowns

      I already responded to this in the post below, pointing out how sad it is that you’re misrepresenting and misprioritizing facts in support of a homophobe serial-liar billionaire Modell clone just so you can keep your LeBron murder boner propped up. It’s all laid out for you there.

      • mo_by_dick

        Proposal to rename the Cleveland Indians the Cleveland Lebron Murder Boners?

        • 910Derp

          Cleveland Fear Boners.

      • ChuckKoz

        here was my response….

        1) I agree there was nothing wrong w/ Key Arena by normal standards. I thought it was fine when there (although not nearly on the level of most arenas). However, this is just the NBA world now, where luxury boxes matter so much. In fact, the refusal to upgrade is why Starbucks owner Shultz sold the team in the first place. So this arena “hostage” situation is not some made up thing by Bennett, he inherited a team seeking a new building (it was even in the contract).

        2) He did have interest in smoothing the path out, agreed. However, he did not do it. You cannot re-write history. They were a decent team, sitting around the 12th pick in the draft before Allen got hurt in March. If he was doing something more sinister, they would have dumped Allen and stripped the thing down immediately. They did not, so you can put up 50 links but the facts remain: he fielded a competitive team that had a key injury (Allen was out of his mind that year) that resulted in a late season collapse.

        3) Already explained why they got the #2 (allen injury…oh and Rashard Lewis got hurt too) and #4 (logically turned the team over to a young Durant…especially when they wisely did not match Orlandos ridiculous offer for Rashard Lewis). SO some guy making some quote about this doens’t make it any more persuasive.

        4) It is sad to appear to be “on the side” of the homophobe. However, I am not on any owner’s side. I am just on the side of reality, where you cannot make up history about what really happened with that Seattle team. And since I am focused on that reality, I accept that the dickhead Bennet probably would have moved the team either way. However, we cannot just make up facts to support your argument. Learn from the LAPD. Its how OJ got off, you know.

        5) I know longer hate LB. I have moved on and indifferent.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Most of the tanking happened after the Allen injury/trade, Chuck. Don’t forget about all the bad contracts they took on to stockpile draft picks as well.

          http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/6/10/3076168/nba-finals-2012-thunder-vs-heat-good-evil-hook

          “The Thunder landed the No. 2, No. 4 and No. 3 picks in successive years. (They’d also traded Allen for a No. 5, and earned a couple of other first-round picks for being a cap mule for competitive teams like the Suns.) This franchise stripped itself bare, tried not to be competitive for three full seasons to pick up the most valuable assets in the game (young stars), and then and only then began filling out the roster with more talent.”

          And you’re OK with Bennett’s participation in the Sonics heist because he “didn’t make it up”? Got it.

          http://www.thenation.com/blog/168311/do-you-know-your-enemy-why-we-should-all-root-miami-heat-beat-oklahoma-city-thunder#

          “[The people of Seattle] loved their team but refused to pay for a new taxpayer funded $300 million arena. Seattle’s citizens voted down referendums, organized meetings and held rallies with the goal of keeping the team housed in a perfectly good building called the KeyArena. Despite a whirlwind of threats, the people of Seattle wouldn’t budge, so Stern made an example of them. Along with Supersonics team owner and Starbucks founder Howard Schultz—who could have paid for his own new arena with latte profits alone—Stern recruited two Oklahoma City–based billionaires, Clay Bennett and Aubrey McClendon, to buy the team and manipulate their forcible extraction from Seattle to OKC.

          “Stern is a political liberal who has sat on the board of the NAACP. Bennett and McLendon are big Republican moneymen whose hobby is funding anti-gay referendums. Yet these three men are united in their addiction to our tax dollars. In Oklahoma City, where rivers of corporate welfare awaited an NBA franchise, Stern, Bennett and McClendon had found their Shangri-La.

          “Bennett, Stern and McClendon lied repeatedly that they would make every effort to keep the team in Seattle, McClendon however gave the game away in 2007, when he said to the Oklahoma City Journal Record, “We didn’t buy the team to keep it in Seattle, we hoped to come here…. We started to look around and at that time the Sonics were going through some ownership challenges in Seattle. So Clay, very artfully and skillfully, put himself in the middle of those discussions and to the great amazement and surprise to everyone in Seattle, some rednecks from Oklahoma, which we’ve been called, made off with the team.”

          • ChuckKoz

            i already said all the links in the internets wouldnt change the facts, but i assumed if you were going to keep linking stuff it would at least be new stuff. either way….

            1) Bennet bought draft picks during a rebulid Good. That is good management, as opposed to the disgraceful actions of PHX broke owner that sold numerous picks (including a pick that ended up being Rajon Rondo). It is evidence of nothing.

            2) The “tanking” happened “after” the injury. You mean, they lost a bunch of games when their best players didnt play at the end of the year, and then lucked out in the lottery to get the 2nd pick (Durant). But then I guess you really think they “tanked” in 07-08, but I beg you to find an example of a move they should have made otherwise.

            3) And just imagine if they overpaid for Lewis and kept other aging veterans around him….you constantly bash Cleveland for their knee jerk way of handling LBs supporting cast, but now bash Seattle for not handcuffing and ruining Durants career….you are really proving that you are the irrational one in this argument

            4) I am not okay w/ Bennett’s move or Bennet as an owner. Again, I am just trying to correct the record and steer you away from this owner war. You say he made this up and pulled a Modell. Its just not accurate. And its probably reason for a Browns fan to feel insulted by the comparison, especially considering we did vote for a stadium when given the chance.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            However you slice it, it’s all a lot easier to do when you’re not accountable at all to a fanbase that you’re lying through your teeth to, that’s all. And it’s really mostly beside the point, as explained yesterday when you first started on “steering me away from the owner war.”

          • ChuckKoz

            your right, this probably all does go back to our first comments yesterday. so to the extent i am beating i dead horse, i am off base, because its not your main point. but you keep defending it, so i keep going there. i guess these debates show my linger symptoms of lebron hatred syndrome (or whatever you called it before…better than the boner thing).

            either way, this got me thinking. based on my normal rooting criteria, i probably should be rooting for MIA. i normally think about which group of fans i would rather see happy. and while the MIA arena atmosphere is a joke compared to OKC, the bottom line is that OKC people are much more likely to be discriminatory and ignorant scumbags that vote for raging lunatics that want to oppress women and other nonsense.
            http://thecentristword.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/there-is-something-is-very-wrong-in-oklahoma/

            and i am sure a lot of people have other dumb reasons for rooting for teams. so rooting against MIA because you want to mock dan gilbert is fine, too. but just sort of admit that is what it is, instead of masking it on this other stuff.

          • jim

            “This franchise stripped itself bare, tried not to be competitive for three full seasons to pick up the most valuable assets in the game (young stars), and then and only then began filling out the roster with more talent.”

            Is this in reference to the Thunder of the Heat? In 2009 the Heat actually had a decent team, one that could have had a shot in the East with a little help. Instead of looking to boost their chances, they sat pat at the trade deadline and then after the season started cutting and trading a number of players (including Michael Beasley) all with the hope of landing not one, but two of the league’s best players in free agency.

            Different side of the same coin.

      • http://brian23.com Brian

        People root against him, sure. But where are these “murder-boners”?

        I think you paint people as far more passionate about this than they actually are. Pretty much everyone is telling you they’re past the Decision, et al – are we all lying?

        Some people made t-shirts…holy wow. That’s one step away from burning his house down, surely.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          I know you have a twitter account, I know you read the comments here and at websites that are much worse, and I know you’re familiar with the work of Scott Raab. Plus, we all heard your grave sermon yesterday on sins against the game, where you talked yourself in circles about how it’s great when management stacks the teams like they did in the old days, but it’s despicable when players use their free agency to decide to play together.

          And now you’re throwing up your hands in confusion about why I don’t understand that all of the criticism of LeBron James (and corresponding lionization of Gilbert) is actually perfectly well-founded. Everybody’s past the Decision because Brian and a few others who still hate him anyway say so. Holy wow!

          • http://brian23.com Brian

            I didn’t talk in circles at all – you completely ignored the math, and math is what it is – the universal language.

            Talent concentration has been watered down since the expansion of the league in the late 80s and early 90s. Anyone who knows basketball will support this. More teams and more players means that the top talent will be spread out farther. Just at a glance, the number of All-Star level talents on each team supports this, despite the international influx of some add’l talent in the late 90s and 00s. 2-3 All-Star talents on a team used to be the norm. Now it’s much more rare. This is clear as day.

            As to Lebron…

            I don’t hate LeBron, and I don’t know how much more clearly I can say that.
            I said clear as could be in my “sermon” that if the Heat had simply backed up what they boasted about, I would even respect him. Raab himself even said on Esquire yesterday that part of him would be happy for LeBron if he won.

            I’m not sure what is keeping you from processing this…? The fact that LeBron is as great and amazing and dominant as he is – truly an all-time talent – is what irks so many people about him. I’d contend the general feeling is he doesn’t maximize that, yet conducts himself and talks like he
            does, and has. Teaming up with Wade/Bosh – stacking a team – plays into
            that equation for sure.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            The universal language!

            I ignored your “math” because it didn’t support your argument at all. You glorified Magic, Bird and Jordan by citing their criticism of the Big Three. I pointed out that they all played on teams that were much more “stacked” than the Heat are.

            You also wrote this this morning:

            “Even last night – they got beat up, and LeBron says afterward it was “just a feel out game.” The guy doesn’t own anything he says or does on the court …”

            LEBRON WASN’T DEPRESSED ENOUGH IN A PRESS CONFERENCE AFTER A CLOSE ROAD LOSS IN GAME 1 OF A SEVEN GAME SERIES ON THE ROAD! HE DOESN’T OWN ANYTHING HE DOES ON THE COURT! DESPICABLE! WAIT WHAT DO YOU MEAN ABOUT THE MURDER BONERS?

            Good god, go away.

          • http://brian23.com Brian

            It does support it. You’re trying to say its okay to stack teams today because teams were stacked in the 80s. I’m saying every team had more all-star talents back then (stacked by today’s standards) because it was a smaller league. Your comparison just doesn’t work and re: the math, its pretty objective. Those teams weren’t stacked back then – they were just the best constructed teams in that era and fit right in, when the talent was more condensed. The Heat stacked it up by 2012 standards of NBA talent levels. By 1980s level? No. By 2012? Yes. The math supports that and you’re not really showing otherwise.

            I think it’s a pretty sane and well thought out point, and again I point out michael jordan as my expert in the field as evidence support witness or whatever.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            I’m not trying to say anything is “OK.” I’m only trying to get to the bottom of all of this LeBron hate.

            You were explaining that you “despised” LeBron because he “stacked” a team by deciding to play with Wade and Bosh. I questioned whether that even constituted “stacking,” and if it did, what was really wrong with trying to stack a team at the highest level of basketball. In response you cited Jordan, Bird, and Magic against LeBron, who all played on teams that were far more stacked than anything LeBron has ever played with.

            If you want to rest your case on the fact that the league has added four teams since those guys played, be my guest. I see you’re going to skip the part about where you attributed a character flaw to LeBron this morning for not expressing enough contrition or depression or whatever in his post-game presser about losing Game 1 on the road last night, so go on and despise away.

          • http://brian23.com Brian

            Oh I was just making light of that quote c’mon.

            I explained why people don’t like him but you don’t accept the concept that they stacked their team. If we disagree on that there’s nowhere to go.
            It’s five team btw – remember the Bobcats. That’s 75 additional players in the NBA compared to 1987 and that thins it out. The best players are going to get spread around. I’m not being a smart ass – it really is just math.
            Lebron himself said it within the last year re: franchise contraction and how it would be great if kevin love weren’t stuck on the timberwolves and the top talent could be condensed onto fewer teams, like back in the lakers-celtics days of magic-bird.

            Put this heat team in 1986 and they aren’t stacked. In 2012 they are. In 1966 they would be short about 5 all-stars.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            As much as it’s largely beside the point, lemme try one more time. First, this whole thing falls apart if one believes that there are thousands of people with the talent to play in the league who don’t make it in for lack of opportunity. Second, are you really saying that there were a bunch of teams back in the day that were as stacked as Magic’s Lakers, Bird’s Celtics, and Jordan/Phil Jackson’s Bulls? How many other teams were there with three HOFers? Do you think Bosh is a HOFer?

            But even granting your point about expansion, the Thunder are apparently more “stacked” than the Heat are. So it’s the same question. Why is it OK when billionaire homophobes engineer stacked teams, but “despicable” (“despised,” your word) when three players try to do it?

          • http://brian23.com Brian

            I give up lol – really it’s exasperating and etc
            On Jun 13, 2012 4:45 PM, “Disqus” <notifications@disqus.net>

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Wait, before you go away, can you count up how many times Raab used the #WhoreofAkron hashtag in the last few weeks before his pre-Series hedge about the little “part” of him that might feel happy for LeBron?

            I’d check myself, but I’d rather not because the feckless flame-fanner blocked me after I reviewed his book, and it would be too aggro to have to look at his feed knowing I won’t be able to reply.

          • http://brian23.com Brian

            He’s extreme to one side, just like you are to other. I thought this whole conversation was about where most people are ie between those places.

            You’re just as much of an outlier for supporting him so much. The difference is nobody is accusing you of being racist and stupid for feeling that way.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            “You’re just as much of an outlier for supporting him so much. The difference is nobody is accusing you of being racist and stupid for feeling that way.”

            Right, because I’m an outlier in the right direction, not the wrong one.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            “are you really saying that there were a bunch of teams back in the day that were as stacked as Magic’s Lakers, Bird’s Celtics, and Jordan/Phil Jackson’s Bulls?”

            in 1986? Besides Barkley’s 76ers, Olajuwon’s Rockets, Isiah’s Pistons and Dantley’s (and Malone’s / Stockton’s) Jazz?

            No, I suppose there weren’t.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            In 1986 each of those teams had one, at most two all-stars on it, so, no. Not even close, really.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            “In 1986 each of those teams had one, at most two at least 2, in some cases 3 all-stars on it, and many hall of famers, so, no yes. Not even close, really Come to think of it, you have a really good point.”

            Took some work, but it’s fixed.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            This is so stupid.

            The Jazz and Pistons had one All-Star a piece in 1986. The Rockets had two. The Sixers had three. They were a couple/few seasons removed from their title run. Replace the Bulls with them, since Chicago only had one All-Star in 1986 as well.

            In 1986 there were five NBA teams with multiple All-Stars. In 2012 there were six such teams.

            In 1986 there was an average of 1 All-Star in the league for every NBA team. In 2012 there was 0.8 All-Stars per team. This is the difference that establishes that it’s now “despicable” for players to decide to play together? And also why it’s “despicable” for Bosh, Wade and LeBron to play together, but not despicable when billionaire homophobes deliberately tank to build an even more stacked team than the Heat.

            So amazingly stupid.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            35 year old Allen Iverson was voted to the All-Star game when he was on his last legs. If you go by the exact letter of the law, you are correct.

            But we both know that fans vote on name recognition, whether the player still deserves it or not. All you have to do is look at the rosters, not the Wikipedia page for the 1986 all star game.

            The bottom line is that the talent pool today is definitely watered down compared to the teams in the mid 1980s.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            I wasn’t counting Iverson. If you count the Sixers that would be seven teams.

            Anyway, watered down isn’t the same as more evenly spread. Nobody has even started to show that it’s one and not the other. Again, not that it’s all not mostly beside the point. Hatehatehatehatehate. Go on.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            And what ever happened to taking a stand against “Stacked YMCA rec league teams”? Is that ok now because someone has to defend Lebron for it?

          • ClevelandFrowns

            I realized this isn’t the YMCA, it’s for real money. It’s what a lot of folks had been trying to tell me at the time.

          • bupalos

            >>>it’s great when management stacks the teams like they did in the old days, but it’s despicable when players use their free agency to decide to play together.>>>

            I think this is your weakest point in the whole Lebron advocacy. Can you really not see how star player collusion to stack teams is completely different, and infinitely worse, than management in each city trying to do the same?

            If you sit and think for two seconds what the NBA would look like if this became the norm, it would provide you some insight on why fans across the league on the whole flipped 180 degrees on Lebron in the space of 6 months. With apologies to certain superfans, and to the general and intentional movement of the NBA over the past 30 years, the vast majority of fans still want to watch and root for THEIR team and THEIR city, not watch stars and stars clusters play ethereal basketball. James (understandably and demonstrably) does not understand this. He and his pals screwed with it in the worst way.

            I’m kind of sorry he has to pay the price, as I’ve come back around to wishing him well, or something close to it. But it’s much better than this becoming the norm and the league turning into MLB on steroids.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Not if you look at it as part of an overall arc of progress in the right direction. Why shouldn’t the talent have the control? The next step should be that it comes to recognize the benefits of loyalty to one place but under the current structure (where we let the billionaires have the wholly subsidized annuities that come with ownership of these public trusts) that’s impossible.

          • bupalos

            >>>The next step should be that it comes to recognize the benefits of loyalty to one place>>>

            Should? Maybe. But why would it? I mean why would that revelation of virtue possibly be MORE likely under such a system and not significantly LESS.

            In a system with as little competitive balance as possible, how would the incentives for leaving the supermajority of hopeless teams possibly be lessened??! It’s already the case that players like KG and Bosh are universally excused for leaving their “hopeless” teams, to some extent even by their own hometown fans.

            http://youtu.be/tO5sxLapAts

          • ClevelandFrowns

            “Should? Maybe. But why would it?”

            Why does anything ever move in the right direction? People do the right thing. LeBron already wants to come home, so that helps answer your question right there.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            First, “not watch stars and stars clusters play ethereal basketball” – really liked that turn of phrase, Bup.

            Second – people do not always do the right thing. This is patently obvious. It should also be obvious that what is right to some people is not right to others. There are really few moral absolutes/truisms when it comes to professional sports, and none that are 100% abided by.

            Third – what is your evidence that LeBron wants to come home? And by home, I presume you mean the Cavaliers.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            There have been all kinds of reports that LeBron wants to come home. Windhorst has been saying so for awhile, and here’s a report from Woj on the same: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArlgWdrbwASUb_whNXzQUa28vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_lebron_james_opt_out_cavaliers_gilbert_021712
            I don’t think any argument I’ve put forth depends on the proposition that “people always do the right thing” so I’m not sure where you’re going with that.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Sorry, I thought you’d written the post previous to mine. Didn’t realize your account had been hacked.

            I remember reading that article and feeling disgusted by it. The story that LBJ is trying to mend bridges is unsourced, which means it is a worthless rumor, and his vacillating between “yeah, I’d like to come to Cleveland” and “Don’t worry, Heat fans!” comes off as mercenary and insulting to both fanbases.

            Not to mention that sort of tinkering smacks of collusion, which LBJ would never do.

            Lastly, he really wants the Cavs to sacrifice cap room and free agents in the forlorn hope that he might return some day? The team played that game before and lost. What if he changes his mind again, and leaves the team in the lurch? It happened before. It could happen again.

        • mo_by_dick

          It’s best not to ask where the murder-boners are, lest you actually find the murder-boners.

    • 910Derp

      I would pay good money for a vacation where I could kill people.

      • NeedsFoodBadly

        EVER READ THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME THAT BOOK IS NUTS

        • smittypop2

          Didn’t the Zodiac killer get some ideas from that book? Battle Royale should also be in your Blu-Ray catalog. Good times right there!

    • jim

      Tanking to get a higher spot in the draft is not a sure fire way to build your team into a legitimate contender. If it was, Sacramento, LA Clippers, Warriors, and the Wizards would all have playoff teams. Instead, those teams find themselves back in the lottery year in and year out because they continue to make the wrong picks.

      Even if you tank, even if you then get lucky in the lottery, and even if you manage to select the right player, you still need that luck and tanking to continue at least another season or two before you have a legitimate contender. Else, you’ll end up with Lebron and 10 Mo Williams’.

      Even after tanking for three seasons and drafting your core, a team still needs to fill in the supporting cast through smart trades and free agency. Long story short, OKC did far more than just “tank” to build the offensive juggernaut they have become.

      • ChuckKoz

        i agreed with everything you said, until the last sentence. They did not really even tank at all. The basically lucked out that Ray Allen (averaging 27 ppg) got bone spurs and Rashard Lewis (22 ppg) needed surgery, thereby ruining their possible playoff season in 2007. Then they lucked out and got Durant.

        Its like when the Spurs were decent w/ David Robinson, but then Robinson got hurt one year, which led to them getting Duncan. Nobody went around bashing the Spurs for “tanking” that year.

        So I really wish this narrative would end. Both that “tanking” works and that OKC is an example of it. OKC is an example of some luck, good drafting and good free agency moves (or lack thereof….i.e, not matching Rashard Lewis $120 mil deal)

        • jim

          This was more in response to Frowns comments that they tanked to get where they were. But yes, I agree, they did not “tank” like Golden State did this year when they sat David Lee the final 20 games of the season and traded their best scorer for an injured center.

      • Steve

        This assumes that the Kings, the Clippers (who have finally seen a big benefit from tanking), Warriors and Wizards would be better off without tanking, which isn’t true. Just because you’re bad doesn’t mean you couldn’t be worse.

  • Art_Brosef

    I cry when I look at my paycheck too.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      You mean your Map Room tab, right?

      • Art_Brosef

        If I looked at it, Im sure crying would be an appropriate response.

    • CleveLandThatILove

      It’s best not to look at the gross pay amount. Pretend it doesn’t exist, because it doesn’t.

      That said, cue the violins but I did grow up in a household of six people where there sometimes wasn’t a paycheck (or any check) to cry over, so I don’t take any of it for granted.

      Also, if you don’t want to tip a waitress, get off your butt and get your own beverage. Just don’t forget to tip the bartender. I also make sure I give a bill and a big thank you to the wonderful housekeeping ladies that make sure I have a clean restroom. Warning – they will hug the crap out of you, so be ready.

  • http://twitter.com/byRiverBurns River Burns

    This one sounds like it’s on the Casino’s patrons, rather than the management itself. If I’m working at Denny’s for $2.13 an hour and I’m not satisfied with my tips, I think I’m trying to go more upscale to the places of the Johnny’s or Pickwick ilk. Those employees should seek better opportunities if they’re unhappy, and the turnover will continue until the gratuities come around or the deep pockets of the proprietors become shallow. When the latter occurs, base wages will go up.

    None of this suggests that I support Gilbert’s conquest, or that I think a casino in Cleveland was/is, in any way, a good idea, but the service industry is rough for an economy that can’t embrace it. It’s not the way to create jobs in a non-resort town. People gamble differently when they’re sleeping in their own beds at night, as opposed to the care-free “tips for everyone” mentality you see from vacationers.

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      This all could have been solved by building the casino on the lake and then stealing Cedar Point in the middle of the night and moving it to Burke.

      Problem solved. Resort town.

      • Petefranklin

        And dont forget the” Thirsty Pony” to siphon off of the tracks then… viola… family friendly gambling!

    • kjn

      Poor tips runs off good servers which brings in worse servers which results in worse service which causes even poorer tips.

      The only way to avoid this is improve your customer base or pay your good servers enough of in wage/benefits to make up for those lost tips.

      I think the customer base is pretty static for this regional casino so it’s on management to either pay their workers more or live with the poor service and the results it’ll produce. Or Gilbert could just blame Lebron.

  • kjn

    Doesn’t pass the sniff test:

    PR lady says they overstaffed in expectation of losing people. Yet if you don’t have a staffing issue, why were you keeping people 11-hours a day?

    Cleveland doesn’t have a large base of high-end service industry people like Vegas does (well, Vegas attracts them at least).

    If you are a top notch service industry type in Cleveland, you probably will be tending bar, serving drinks, waiting tables, etc. at some higher-end place that pays better, offers better hours, and garners you better tips than the Legend will.

    So that just leaves either sub-par servers or newbs who have to learn on the job (and will probably move on to greener pastures once they learn the score). Sub-par service was always my issue with Detroit casinos and, really, any non-Vegas casino (though I’m in no way a well-traveled gambler) so I’m not surprised that this is happening here.

  • http://twitter.com/GHClevelandSprt Mike Stein

    The argument for tipping dealers in the casino seems to be that the casino is too cheap to pay a real wage, so gamblers have a duty to make up for it. Um, no.

    • ChuckKoz

      i am not so much concerned with the dealers as the cocktail service. although someone that wins big should probably tip the dealers, but i have seen dealers that glare at you if you dont so eff those guys. but tipping for a drink is just mandatory. its like a restaurant.

      • http://twitter.com/GHClevelandSprt Mike Stein

        Yea, I’m not against tipping. You are right that the servers are the ones who should receive (and can earn) tips. It’s not like the dealer can give you better cards or make you win. They could be friendly with the people at the table, but what else can they do to enhance the game? Some people don’t even like the dealers to talk with them, so they might not like a friendly dealer. The servers can affect your experience much more than the dealers. They have more control over making you happy.

    • Ronnie

      You just made the argument for never tipping anyone, ever. That would make you an asshole.

      • http://twitter.com/GHClevelandSprt Mike Stein

        By saying, “You are right that the servers are the ones who should receive (and can earn) tips” I made the argument for never tipping anyone, ever? Instead of posting nonsense, how about posting an argument for why the dealers should receive tips?

        • Ronnie

          My reply was to your original comment. Didn’t see the other prior to hitting submit on my first.

          The reason a dealer should get a tip is similar to why a cocktail waitress should. They enhance your experience in the casino.

          • http://twitter.com/GHClevelandSprt Mike Stein

            That’s fine. If they do, then tip them. I’ve seen too many people argue that they should be tipped because the casino won’t pay them a decent wage. Some tippers are actually turned off by the casino’s policy of pooling the tips among all dealers.

          • Petefranklin

            Hate that pooling of tips BS. At the book I have the cashiers who I trust when I ask questions of the bets (tickets) they’ve written on certain games. It sucks that I just cant give them a ticket or $$$ for themselves,they have to split it. Simple way around this rule is to get an envelope or folded piece of paper with $$$ inside and the persons name who you want to tip written largely on the outside.If I want them to split it I just tell them to split it with so and so on swing shift or whatever. If cash is not seen I guess Its not considered a tip.

  • http://twitter.com/TDDeBord David DeBord

    “The Legend is finally here.” Best picture ever.

  • http://www.redright88.com/ TitusPullo94

    It’s probably pretty hard to leave a good tip when the house has already taken all of your money.

  • ChuckKoz

    did find the comment in scene article interesting about how the Detroit casino workers are unionized and make double what Cleveland pays. Was this ever discussed in Cleveland? I guess when there is just 1 casino, its harder to unionize. Kasich writing regulations probably not helping either. Too bad for the workers, as that would be their golden ticket to better wages.

    • jim

      From what I read, the Ohio casinos are in fact discussing unionizing.

  • http://twitter.com/GHClevelandSprt Mike Stein

    I believe I read something where casino management agreed to not stand in the way of casino workers who tried to unionize (if they try).

  • Brian Sipe

    “The Legend” picture is priceless!!!!!!!!!

  • Brian Sipe

    Gilbert getting tons of love for some reason of late.. I assume because the local media has made him the anti LeBron James

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Good assumption.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    After the 2014 season LeBron can opt out of his contract.

    This is a fact.

    Here are some other facts.

    He is the best basketball player in the world.

    Wade is a great player who may be on the downside of a career due to injuries. (Think Sizemore)

    Bosh is a nice piece. Nothing more.

    The coach is an idiot.

    There is only one way that this ends. He is coming back to finish his career in Cleveland.

    The following is my opinion:

    Can we stop the decision nonsense already? The I’m not mad he left just the way he did it crowd? So these people would be thrilled if he just left? Who cares? He made a bad decision because bad people surrounded him. People grow up. It takes time. It’s not like I needed LeBron to let me know that Jim Gray is an asshole.

    When the hell does Cheddar Bay start and I need my MAC football.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      there are… way more teams in the NBA than the Cavs. LBJ could easily choose to go to the Knicks or Nets or several other teams. There are many ways this could end.

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        Only if the Nets move to Akron…

  • Jeff in the Heights

    Are there really any owners that aren’t either:
    A)Enormously bloated egos who have made their money by nefarious means or
    B)Inept figureheads who just list the teams as assets to their greater global collection of wealth?

    Seems to me that Gilbert is in the A) column, but what is news about that? He’s become a folk hero to those in the community who were devastated by the biggest star in the league leaving. That earned him points but doesn’t overshadow the fact that he is a cold-blooded business assassin who probably also supports the Tea Party. Same thing with all these guys, save fro Cuban who usually owns his egotism. Owners are part of the 1% that have next to nothing in common with us regular folk. (See also Dolan’s cowardly refusal to act of the Wahoo logo and Lerner’s blatant “couldn’t be bothered” approach to the town’s most beloved franchise) I guess the best we can hope for in Gilbert’s case is that he loves the Cavs and legitimately wants to get them back in the NBA picture. That’s the only common ground. The jury is out as to whether Dolan and Lerner truly care.

    As for who to root for in the Finals: simply choose among the players on the court. If I got involved in looking into the boardrooms of professional teams, I’d lose what little faith I have left in humanity.

    • kjn

      In my book, Dolan’s refusal to act on Wahoo makes him as much a cold-blooded business assassin as Gilbert.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Agree with almost all of this but don’t see why the last part follows. Why isn’t it better to look to who has the real power in deciding how to root?

      • NeedsFoodBadly

        Jeff’s point is that you wouldn’t be able to root for any sports team ever because all the owners are varying shades of scumbag.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          I’m confident in my ability to differentiate the more and less loathsome shades and think it would be productive if folks would pay more attention to these guys.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            I find that fascinating. When/if James returns to the Cavaliers, will Dan Gilbert become LESS loathsome, as evidenced by LBJ’s willingness to once again work for him? Will you root for the Cavs then?

            Or if LBJ does not return to the Cavaliers, is this further proof of Gilbert’s perfidy?

            What do you like about the owner of the Miami Heat?

    • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

      “Are there really any owners that aren’t either:
      A)Enormously bloated egos who have made their money by nefarious means or
      B)Inept figureheads who just list the teams as assets to their greater global collection of wealth?”

      Sure, I can think of a few. Any specific sport?

  • Shshshlomo

    Wow, the Horseshoe must really suck if people are leaving because of the paycheck. The better question is why aren’t they quitting because Gilbert is a “sloganeering loan shark” who engages in “astonishingly reductive demonization campaigns”?

    • ClevelandFrowns

      I mean, that has to be part of it, too. I could have been more clear about that in the post but have been pretty busy today.

  • Petefranklin

    Who complains about rookie dealers? Jeez I thought the object was to win$$$. Ever wonder why the smooth handed dealers deal the high stakes tables? Because they make more for the house than a newbie with bad shuffeling technique. Some of my best nights playing cards have come in the basement of Circus Circus on third shift with newbie dealers who couldnt even grab the cards out of the shoe correctly let alone put a good shuffle on them. Very easy to post wager with them also, that is placing bets on your stack after you know the outcome. As far as 6 $ an hour… my god isn’t minimum wage at least 7.50 or something in Ohio? And I really doubt that the people handling the dough get paid 6 an hour, thats asking for thievery. As far as tipping, I always order 2 drinks so I’m not getting tipped out on “free” drinks. The servers dont seem to mind, they hate getting stiffed.

    • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

      I find that rookie dealers keep making mistakes in my favor at the Horseshoe. Went to MGM Grand in Detroit yesterday, very few if any mistakes were made. That’s not a coincidence.

  • Coachie Ballgames

    Oh man, great casino pic. Reminds me of the fantastic final scene of “Casino,” where the fanny-pack wearing hoards stagger in slow motion. Keep hammering this issue, Frowns.
    Here I am surrounded by scratch-off tickets, and tv ads for them, when all I want to do is pound the unjjjj on Euro 2012.
    Speaking of, Hellas is in hella trouble, pal, but your other half, Ukraine (no “the” apparently, is in good shape).

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    in reply to ‘Why shouldn’t the talent have the control?‘ <– this would be fine provided the talent is distributed with some equality across the member franchises of this sporting-business enterprise.

    product is 'competitive sporting event.'
    product is not 'assorted global icons from glamorous cities playing ball against your team.'

    superstar free agents have been leaving 'towns-like-ours' since kareem left milwaukee. i can't think of a true star going in the opposite direction (unless you consider orel hershiser, jamal lewis, larry hughes true stars).

    starbucks would be a pretty sorry brand if you could only get super kona in miami, la, and new york while everywhere else gets sanka.

  • Hopwin

    Can you just ofiicially rename the comments section: “Bare assertion fallacies”?

  • http://twitter.com/PheasantPants J.

    I’ve played craps maybe three or four times at the Horseshoe already. I’m frequently the only one tipping, so I’m not surprised that dealers are dissatisfied with their paychecks. I’m hoping people eventually figure out that you’re supposed to tip these guys, but it hasn’t happened just yet.

    as far as to why you should tip the dealers, while they can’t influence the outcomes for you, there are certain games where a good dealer can absolutely enhance your table experience–craps is the most obvious but it’s true of any table game. The other argument for tipping the dealers is the same for tipping waitstaff in a restaurant–if casinos were paying dealers solely out of their revenues, then the casino would raise house edges to make up the difference and the gambler would lose out. Personally, I prefer to play a pass line bet at a 0.8% or whatever house edge and tip my dealers than never tip and play a 2% or 3% HE game.

    So no, this isn’t really Dan Gilbert’s fault, but’s a great example of why we should always be skeptical any time any local billionaire or politico pushes a big project promising jobs jobs jobs. I still support casino gaming in Ohio for the same reasons I’ve always supported it in Michigan as well, but casinos, stadiums, and other big ticket projects are not saving Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo or any other Great Lakes/Rust Belt city, at least not by their lonesome.

  • Kamov

    Du bist ein Eisbrecher, Frowns. (That picture… I couldn’t help but think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4xSGvJ7Mt4 )

  • http://www.kenwoodplc.co.uk/ Reliable Damp proofing

    It’s not anyone ells fault except the volunteers; they would have known one day they have to face this problem. This is a good lesson for them and for the others Casino employees.

  • Horseshoe dealer

    I work at the Cleveland casino and it’s the best job I have ever had. If people are crying over making 46k a year, then that’s their problem.

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