Analysis: Dolans tops among small market MLB owners

by Cleveland Frowns on August 23, 2012

The Indians are terrible again and naturally folks are calling for heads to roll and for the Dolan family to sell the franchise. Last night, our friend Joe Lull on 92.3 compared the Dolans to a young family that adopted a dog but could no longer afford to take care of it, which is typical. At this point it’s an article of faith on local talk radio and and message boards that Tribe fans would be better off if the Dolans would sell to a more worthy owner, whoever that might be.

So who might it be? Or, more to the point, how could anyone reasonably expect any ownership group to do better than the Dolans have since purchasing the Indians in 2000 given the skewed economics of Major League Baseball by which market size-based television contracts allow some franchises to comfortably spend three-to-four times more on talent than their supposed competitors?

In eleven seasons under the Dolans’ leadership, the Indians have come within one game of the World Series once. So who among their small market peers has done any better?

See MLB playoff history here, and note that if we’re looking at markets any smaller than the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria combined statistical area the answer is none, which makes the Dolans the top small market MLB owners in the business (see list of metropolitan statistical areas as well for full comparison). Even if you don’t want to define “small market” in this way, it’s undeniable that no MLB ownership group has done any better than the Dolans under the same constraints. So folks calling for the Dolans to sell based on the team’s performance are doing so without a single example of anyone who’s been able to do any better.

But if you want to hold the Dolans to a higher standard and compare the Indians to franchises that draw from bigger markets than they do, but markets smaller than Detroit’s (which falls just outside of the top ten), we’re looking at the A’s, Brewers, Mariners, Orioles, Padres, Pirates, Rays, Reds, Rockies, Royals, and Twins. (Note: The Cardinals are not a “small market” club by any reasonable definition.)

Among this group, only the Rays and Rockies have done any better than the Indians have, and not by much, with each of those teams making it to the World Series once only to get blown out in it (Rays lost in five and the Rockies got swept). So if you abide by the maxim that it don’t mean a thing without the ring, all small market MLB clubs are tied as the best small market clubs.

If folks want to criticize the Dolans for not uniting with their small market peers to do something to fix MLB’s glaring and growing competitive balance problem, that’s a different story and a more productive discussion, but that’s not the discussion that’s taking place.

DISCLAIMER: Thanks to their stubbornness in clinging to the disgusting Chief Wahoo logo, the Dolans are of course the absolute worst. The preceding discussion excludes the Wahoo issue for the purpose of inclusiveness as well as for the analysis and discussion of other issues to which so many poor fools find the Wahoo issue to be impertinent.

RELATED:

Mark Shapiro: Indians “don’t just silently accept” MLB’s competitive balance problem

On a Profoundly Depressing Four Game Stretch for the Tribe

The 5-year Plan: Despite a June swoon, the Dolan promise is holding up

 

—————

The quote of the day is a tie:

“I’m more like Ben [Roethlisberger] than Michael Vick.” — Brandon Weeden

“[I will meet the enemy] in front of their armored personnel carriers” [to tell them they are not welcome]. … I don’t want U.N. troops in Lubbock County.” — Lubbock County, TX Judge Tom Head

Which is all for today. Important Cheddar Bay annoucements and who knows what else tomorrow. Thanks.

  • Brian Sipe

    Frownie… You skipped over the Forbes Magazine article on the Tribe was one of the most profatble teams in the bigs last year. they keep payroll low, make a ton from STO which they own, and roll around in all the revenue sharing money they take in from big budget teams…

    • bupalos

      While they may indeed be at the top of the small market list, the fact is that all the small markets operate in the same way and under the same structure. The Dolans as owners are pretty much irrelevant, the structure dictates how any owner in this market is liable to act. The most surprising part of this story is that the “have nots” in MLB have more or less the same chance to make money as the “haves,” they just don’t make that money by winning.

      The entire reason the Cleveland baseball market is distorted in it’s expectations is because of the anomaly of {Browns exit + Sleeping giant + Civic/Jacobs cash infusion} allowed the Indians to act as a large market team for the better part of a decade. Now the hangover. It’s too bad that the current regime–which is for the most part as competent as any other– hasn’t actively tried to change this identity and embraced their David v. Goliath status. It seems like a marketing no brainer.

      Unless they really don’t want more questions raised about the structure of imbalance. Which they really probably don’t.

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        The best money Dolan could spend would be to hire the Tampa marketing staff.

        Ignore the actual attendance number and ask how in the world they get ANYONE to drive to that dump of a ballpark and pay actual money to watch a team that prides itself on pitching and defense playing in something that has the appeal of a linen closet.

        If anyone could do David vs Goliath marketing it is them.

        • S_A_M_1111

          it’s been a few years, but with the exception of CC and one AB by juan gonzalez, shapiro rebuilt the entire indians 2001 into the 2005 version which should have competed from 2005-2008.

          if shapiro ever chose to leave the indians, he’d find another job pretty darn quick, with no guarantee that his replacement could do any better.

      • DonCleaveland

        There can be *good* small market owners and *bad* small market owners. Most of the posters here are intelligent enough to understand the financial constraints the Dolan’s are under and understand why the MLB business model sucks.

        Still, The concept of the Dolans as owners is not irrelevant – quite the contrary. They offer a crap product and treat the fans that do come poorly. Their game day operation is a joke. Their marketing of the product, ie. “the best we can do is contend once every 5 years so deal with it” has been rejected by the casual sports fan in this town. That’s the sign of a bad business operation. Frowns wants to say we have essentially achieved the same as other small market teams, well I’d point to 2 winning season and 10 years and say not quite. Overall, yes, none of them have won, but a lot of them have been a hell of a lot more competitive, which is why their season ticket bases are double ours. Let’s not forget, the season ticket base was 25K in the early 2000’s. Now it’s 8K. The fact that the Dolan’s killed the brand in a decade makes them bad owners, period.

        Bottom line, any business owner must sell their product, and the Dolans have failed miserably. They are turning a profit of some sort, not sure if it’s small or as Forbes would indicate large. Their player development has failed, their trades have failed, their talent evaluation has failed. We were supposed to be built on the model of having a great minor league system, and then replace those guys when they get to free agency b/c we can’t pay them. That is a fine approach, but our minor league system is barren and we haven’t developed a player of substance since whom, C.C?

        Taking the easy way out and saying no one could do better here is rubbish. Our market size may only be 15th, but it has proven repeatedly that you put a good product on the field/court/etc. the fans will shell out like in no other city. The Cavs during the LeBron years sold out every game, even with the competition with the Browns. The same people that packed the Jake in the 90’s are still here, they just choose to spend their $ elsewhere. People have disposable income, they just aren’t dumb enough to spend it on a product when you get $.20 value on the $1.00. Build it, they come, and they’ll keep coming.

    • Narm

      So you honestly believe the Indians made more money than the Yankees last year? Keep in mind the Yankees make something like $450 million in profit JUST from the YES network (not counting attendance and radio, etc) and pay less than $200 million in payroll.

      • dubbythe1

        What the article references is that small market teams do not need lucrative outside contracts to turn a profit, the draw from being small market in MLB is the fact that you turn an operational profit because of large market teams.

        • Narm

          I won’t argue they turned a profit, but to say they were one of the most profitable teams in baseball is a stretch. And I’ll never understand the desire for an owner to lose money so he can pay a player $20 million a year. Why is one celebrated for making a profit and the other a villain?

          • Beeej

            The way I read it was that if the Indians have $50 million payroll and make $100 million then they have 100% profit. If the Yankees have a $200 million payroll and and made $300 million they only have a 50% profit. 100% profit is better than 50% profit, therefore the Indians are more profitable.
            DRINK!

  • Narm

    Over the last 10 years, the Indians have averaged the 22nd highest payroll in baseball. Over the last 5 it actually goes UP to 21st. People want to make them a boogeyman, but it is no different in any other small market. Except in those markets, fans understand this and don’t specifically avoid games because of ownership – which only makes the problems worse.

  • http://twitter.com/musicman06 Chris Music

    Joe Cleveland Fan’s head explodes.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    I have been banging this same drum.

    The thing that bothers me the most is when people say things like “but Forbes said the Indians and Pirates both made $20 million last year”

    Who gives a shit?

    If the Tribe took every penny of that $20 million and put it into players it would bump them to almost 50% of the Yankees. It makes no difference…pocket the difference and keep the ballpark looking nice (which both Pittsburgh and Cleveland do)

    The system sucks…blaming the Dolans for anything other than Wahoo is just absurd.

    • mo_by_dick

      This is old, but here is a good read about revenue sharing that discusses the team’s obligation to use revenue sharing income “to improve its performance on the field”:

      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/will-leaked-mlb-financials-kill-revenue-sharing/

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        I understand the point of revenue sharing (at least the way the big market teams tried to write it) but it is still stupid as shit.

        Say the Tribe decides that they want Grienke this offseason and are going to use all of their revenue sharing money. They have zero chance of getting him because the bidding will just go up and up…it’s absurd as people saying but Milwaukee offered CC $100 million. Means nothing. The big market club just offers more and then gives the small market teams a bone as if to say “here just smile and play along”

        The system sucks and quite honestly as long as their are local TV deals I don’t have a better answer.

        • mo_by_dick

          Agree completely, payroll is killing parity. The only real answer I can think of is a salary cap, but it seems like a foregone conclusion that the MLBPA is too powerful to let that happen.

          From
          The Report of the Independent Members of the Commissioner’s Blue Ribbon Panel on Baseball Economics: “The limited revenue sharing and payroll tax that were approved as part of MLB’s 1996 Collective Bargaining Agreement with the Major League Baseball Players Association have produced neither the intended moderating of payroll disparities nor improved competitive balance. Some low-revenue clubs, believing the amount of their proceeds from revenue sharing insufficient to enable them to become competitive, used those proceeds to become modestly profitable.”

          • GrandRapidsRustlers

            MLBPA is the most powerful union in the world.

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

          Milwaukee offered Sabathia 6 years / $154 million. New York gave him 7 / $161m.

          He took less per year because he wanted to go to New York, not because New York’s offer was superior.

          The issue lies herein though, if Sabathia blows out his arm in year one of his deal, Milwaukee has that contract hanging around their neck like an albatross, where the Yankees simply pay it and sign someone else.

          • GrandRapidsRustlers

            Agreed.

            There is nothing that the small market team can do. If they actually offered that to CC knowing there was any chance he would actually sign it that is one dumb front office.

            That offer was nothing more that a show for the fans and for CC to get a little more out of the Yankees.

            Look at the spike in the Brewers payroll recently…has got them nothing. Granted, their fans probably don’t complain about the owner.

    • Petefranklin

      Sure keep the ballpark looking nice for those who buy 8$ hot dogs and 11$ beers, makes me want to fly in from Vegas to be a spectator at the beautiful ballpark. Give me section 33 at three dollars any night and I won’t complain about the shitty product because I would still have money to walk right by the horseshoe and go home.

  • Dave

    The comparison to other teams is irrelevant. Clevelanders want an owner who will spend the money to make a run at it. They don’t want an owner who drives a profit from his fiscally efficient franchise. They want an owner who will take a loss at the expense of an emotional gamble. We don’t want Jamie Dimon. We want Aubrey McClendon without a cap. And no, we may not be any better, but the gamble will keep me afloat.

    • Beeej

      I would say the Sizemore signing was a gamble, same with Lowe, Damon, Kotchman, and keeping Hafner instead of buying out his contract. None of them worked out and the team is paying for it. What if Sizemore and Hafner got/stayed healthy? What if Damon and Kotchman hit above the Mendoza line? What if Lowe continued pitching like he did for his first 8 starts? What if this team signed $100 million FA that busted? What if…

      For the Indians to be successful they need to draft good players (which they haven’t done for years), win the trades that they do make (C.C., Lee), and sign younger talented guys to long term contracts years before they get a chance to test the FA market (again Sizemore and Hafner). In the mid 90s this formula worked rather well, lately not so much. I’m looking more at the GM and scouting more than I am the Dolans.

      Just curious, but who do you think the the Tribe should have gambled on…that we could afford…that would want to play here…that wouldn’t hamstring the rest of the roster?

      In continuing with yesterday’s theme, the Indians can only hope to hit the jackpot playing penny slots while the large market teams are playing BJ at 10k a hand.

      • Beeej

        Or maybe they could make a big splash by signing the likes of Larry Hughs, Shaq, or Delonte West?

      • Petefranklin

        Or maybe they could hire a competent scouting department so the cupboard isn’t bare.

        • Beeej

          I said GM and scouting, but then again everyone’s problems with the Browns (myself included) was that it all started with the ownership. So maybe it is the Dolan’s fault after all.

  • p_forever

    tom the judge and joe the plumber would make a great presidential ticket – is it too late for the GOP to make this change?

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      I think Isaac the tropical storm would make a nice addition to the ticket.

    • 910Derp

      Throw in Todd Akin and it’s a deal: They’ll run as independents on the Batshit Crazy ticket!

  • Jonnn

    With each having zero Super Bowl wins as a head coach, Mangini and Shurmur have proven themselves to be equivalent coaches.

  • Beeej

    The interview with Judge Tom Head was hysterical. All the interviewer can say is, “Uh hungh. Yea. Uh hungh. O.k.” It is like he knows that he would get a better interview out of the homeless guy wearing a tinfoil hat on the subway.

  • Jim

    This is all well and good but it ignores the major issue: that the Front Office has missed, and missed terribly in the past few years to build a legitimate contender. This team is obviously working under significantly more restraints than their larger market brethern, which only tends to exacerbate the “misses.” I.e. a team like New York or Boston can afford to pay someone like a Carl Crawford $15-20 million to not produce. Cleveland is afforded no such luxuries and when a player like Travis Hafner fails to live up to his billing, the team is unable to remedy the problem externally.

  • NeedsFoodBadly

    So if the system is broken, why should anyone care about baseball who isn’t a fan of the Yankees?

    Seems like the small market teams are essentially AAAA farm teams for the bigs.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    Look, I know for whatever reason people want to let the Dolans off the hook. The fact is, there are 3 ways to win in the Major Leagues.

    1) Draft well or trade well
    2) Spend wisely
    3) Be the Yankees.

    Since #3 is out (insert farm club for the Yankees joke), that leaves us with drafting well and spending wisely. They haven’t hit on a first round draft pick since Captain Cheesecake. In 1998. The only second round pick who has become an everyday player in that time period is Jason Kipnis. His regression lately has people worried about that. So that method is out.

    Grady Sizemore got $5 million to walk on a treadmill all year. I won’t kill Grady, the fact is that I love the kid. He played the game the way that we want all of our baseball players to play, but his body couldn’t handle it. I hope for his sake that he doesn’t have pain problems for the rest of his life. The simple problem I have is that Antonetti made signing Sizemore his number one priority and jumped the gun, signing him to this deal in OCTOBER, when nobody was even considering signing a guy who very clearly had serious injury issues.

    Between that blown $5m and Cunningham / Duncan / Damon monstrosity, there would have been enough money to pick up the 3rd year of Willingham’s contract, who publicly stated that he wanted to come to Cleveland. His power numbers are up this year, but his career numbers would be better than anything that Cunningham or Duncan would put together. Plus he hits right handed, which is one glaringly obvious hole that this team has that surprised nobody.

    I guess the main point of this story is that the front office proclaimed this to be our “contention window”, and this team in all likelihood will lose 90 games this year and could easily finish last in the worst division in all of baseball. I don’t see how anyone keeps their job after being so completely wrong about something like this.

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      4. Hope you hit the lottery with an international signing.

      http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=609267

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        I forgot about that one, which used to be a nice honeypot for the Indians. However, the latest CBA screwed them that way too.

        Teams will also be taxed for exceeding signing-bonus pools for international free agents. The pools will be based upon winning percentages from the previous season, allowing the league’s worst teams to spend the most money in the international arena.

        Prior to that, the Indians could devote a scout team and sign entire villages if they pleased, which I think may have actually happened.

        • GrandRapidsRustlers

          I know way too much then any normal person should about baseball in the DR due to having 2 friends who worked down there for the Twins. All I can say is that the Tribe and the Twins had a nice thing going on until the new CBA crushed it.

          The Paulino signing infuriated my friend who thought the Twins had him. The fact that this 17 year old is already in short season A is amazing.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      I don’t think it’s a joke to refer to small clubs as farm teams for the Yankees. I think it’s an accurate descriptor of the situation.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      “The fact is, there are 3 ways to win in the Major Leagues.

      1) Draft well or trade well
      2) Spend wisely
      3) Be the Yankees.”

      Right. And the Indians can’t be the Yankees, and they do as well at 1 and 2 as anyone in a market as big as theirs no matter how much fun folks have second guessing any individual move they’ve made.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        They have to be the worst drafting team in baseball. If you find me another team that has gone 14 years without having a first or second round pick become a solid starter, then I’ll buy you a tall glass of whiskey.

        Spending wisely is something they’ve been awful at too. If they were any good at #1 or #2, they would have had more than 1 playoff appearance in the last 11 years.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          However “good” they’ve been at those things, it’s led to better results than every other team that’s operating under equal or greater constraints, so the best you can do is pretend it’s possible for anyone to have done any better. That’s all.

        • GrandRapidsRustlers

          Look at the Houston Astros draft history since Brad Lidge in 1998.

          Then get your wallet out and buy that man a drink.

          http://houston.astros.mlb.com/team/draft.jsp?c_id=hou&year=2012

          There is an asterisk next to this: If you count Mitch Talbot or Chad Qualls you owe him 2 drinks.

          Remember the rule of MLB Drafts – Anytime you are down on the Indians to look at Houston. It’s comedy at its best.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            GRR,
            Good call, as I was reading Chris M’s post I was thinking about the Astros.
            Unfortunately the Indians and the Astros are my two favorite teams.
            1.) Indians (very large chasm)
            2.) Astros

      • Hopwin

        Um… non-sequitur? 1) & 2) have nothing to do with market-size.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Sure they do. Having multiples of the revenue to work with makes everything easier including drafting and “wise spending” (LOL), mistakes aren’t magnified, etc. etc. It’s really beyond dispute.

          • Hopwin

            It’s really beyond dispute.

            It’s really illogical. FTFY :)

    • Petefranklin

      5. Bet against the Indians on the run line every day. 6. Pay the umpires off.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M
  • thebearchoo

    How much more $$$ would the Dolans be bringing in if more than, say 17,000, fans were going to see a team that is in 1st place or thereabouts for a sizeable portion of the season?

    The team is suffering from poor drafts and a few trades that didn’t pan out as expected, and Manny “outside of those three home runs I thought he pitched a great game” Acta is definitely not the person to right this sinking ship at this point either. It’s really just a giant mess. I listened to a Keith Law interview on 850 and he said that no player outside of maybe Kipnis should be off-limits and I completely agree.

    The problem is that when you trade off your pieces all of the blowhards and rabble-rousers are going to complain that they aren’t trying to win again, even when it’s become officially obvious that this team is in no position to be winning divisions over the Sox and Tigers. It needs to happen, but dear God is it going to hammer the attendance numbers worse than they already have been, which is truly frightening.

    This brings up my final point; in ESPNs recent future rankings, where did the Indians end up?? Dead last, and Buster Olney concluded that “there are serious questions about franchise viability.” I’m as big a Tribe fan as anyone out there, but given the way things have gone I’m not sure I would be shocked if they jumped town if things didn’t improve in the next 5ish years. I couldn’t really blame the Dolans either. Sad but true.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      “How much more $$$ would the Dolans be bringing in if more than, say 17,000, fans were going to see a team that is in 1st place or thereabouts for a sizeable portion of the season?”

      Not as much $$$ as the Yankees spend in a down year. Attendance isn’t the issue.

      • Jim

        Attendance is in fact part of the issue. They do not have a large television contract that can support the a season’s operating costs and so the Indians, unlike some of the larger market teams, rely on ticket revenue to fund the team. Likewise, the Dolans do not have a significantly lucrative business that they can tap into to fund the franchise, ala a Dan Gilbert, Paul Dolan, etc. Both Dolan brothers, Shapiro and others have discussed this, whether you take them at their word or not.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Where is there any evidence that Gilbert has dipped into his own personal (or Quicken Loans) finances to operate the Cavs?

          • Hopwin

            Could he have pocketed more money from the Cavs? If yes then he is in fact dipping into his own pocket.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            No he’s not, he’s just feeding (LeBron-generated) profits back into the company.

        • p_forever

          i was thinking about this issue too (the issue of an owner’s personal wealth), when i was listening to lull on 92.3, and he was making a big issue of the fact that the NFL rejected the dolans’ bid to buy the brownies because their net worth wasn’t high enough. is it really the case that *any* owner regularly (or ever) dips into his own personal finances, or the finances of his own personal business(es), to operate an NFL or MLB or NBA team?

          i don’t think that’s the normal course at all – i’m not even sure it ever happens.

          attendance is – as you say – an issue insofar as ticket sales are one of the sources of revenue funding the indians. so yes – the dolans and shapiro might be disappointed that their team isn’t making more money, and that therefore the team can’t spend more money, (and for sure the dolans are disappointed that they aren’t making more money owning the team), but i don’t think the issue is whether the dolans can *personally* fund the team, and i don’t think anyone is expecting the dolans to do that, either.

      • thebearchoo

        Comparing the Indians and Yankees is pretty much apples and oranges. The Yankees can spend that money not just because they bring in 30000 more fans a game at much higher prices (which is an enormous amount of $$$ when you consider everything bought at a game), but because there brand is one of the best in the world. How much money you think the Indians brand brings in?

        Therefore, since the Indians can’t rely on other channels of revenue like the Yankees can, attendance becomes that much more of a significant part of the club’s operations. It’s really pretty simple.

    • Petefranklin

      The browns have a better chance of leaving than the tribe. Portland lost their AAA team and Vegas or San Jose will never build a stadium. Where? It’s at least five years away if ever. Salt Lake…LOL.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Pete F,
        San Antonio

  • Peter

    That crazy judge in Texas is par for the course for Texans.

  • rgrunds

    Thanks for your original approach. I have a question, however. Don’t you think that Shapiro and Antonetti should be held accountable for bad decisions which put the team over the precipice for the next couple years? They knew the bad drafting over the past decade and instead of paying Grady 5M, Duncan, Cunningham and Damon whatever they were getting, just pay Willingham what he wanted and give him the extra year. The team would have been much better and….most importantly……the parts that should have gone with Ubaldo would have been provided. You don’t trade for Ubaldo unless you fix the left field situation too.

    Now the franchise is in trouble for the next 3 years.

    I must say, I think it is naive to believe that the Dolan’s paramount interest is good baseball. It is in maintaining the income stream of the organization.

  • clay

    Shapiro and Antonetti are the problems. Their money ball bullshit doesn’t work. Get some real baseball guys in there. See: Rangers, Texas after Nolan Ryan got in there.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      clay,
      Nolan Ryan was the most overrated player ever and he is not exactly the genius behind the rise of the Rangers either.

  • Atdietz80

    The Rangers have way more cash to spend than the Tribe. I don’t think Nolan Ryan is gonna be able to sell the Yu Darvish signing to management here.

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    I’m going to chalk Weeden’s poor word choice to a momentary brain shart and not an admission that he is the next incarnation of rapey inbred evil. Here’s to hoping that the monumental lapses in judgement off the field don’t translate to the on-field product.

    • 910Derp

      HARF HARF.

    • Petefranklin

      How did that motion to replace DERP go?

      • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

        que pasa?

  • Dinger63

    You’ve stretched it as far as you can. No Cleveland fan would accept the above premise. The Indians have done shit since the Dolans purchased the team. I’m not faulting them completely. Pull the Dolans out of the the Tribe performance equation since 2001 and the Tribe sucks on virtually all levels. Hell, they were trading on their success leading up to 2001 as they entered the Dolan era. What other reason would the Dolans have to buy the team were it not for a very recent history of success leading up to their purchase. They paid top dollar for a declining product. Now they are stuck with it and they are without the adequate resources or know how to dig out from underneath the pile of excrement that poor drafting, poor trades and an innate inability to make accretive moves to the Tribe’s well being produces.

  • S_A_M_1111

    you’ve got a better chance of convincing a five your old boy that girls don’t have cooties than convincing the typical indians fan that the dolans aren’t the spawn of the devil when it comes to being baseball team owners.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      S_A_M,
      Why would you lie to a five year old boy?

      • S_A_M_1111

        the five year old eventually grows up and gets a clue.

  • nagelbush

    The Dolans are not willing to do what they have to do to field a competitive team. The Indians are destined to be the new Pirates — bad for 15 years and counting. You better fine tune your apologies for this ownership team.

  • rodofdisaster

    That Weeden quote is right up there with the one he gave after being crowned starter: “I busted my tail for 10 practices now and put in a lot of work,”

    Wow. It only took 10 practices.

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