All Eyes on Shurmurball

by Cleveland Frowns on September 27, 2012

It’s Thursday night football with the Browns in Baltimore on national TV.

The Ravens’ defense is seen as relatively vulnerable compared to recent years’ editions, somewhere between the excellent Bills and Eagles units that shut down Shurmurball 2012, and the challenged Bengals group against which Weeden, Richardson & Co. had some success. The problem is that the Baltimore offense is by far the best the Browns have faced so far in 2012 (think of the Bills if C.J. Spiller hadn’t gotten hurt, but with a Pro Bowl quarterback and four top-line receivers instead of just one to offset a slightly softer offensive line than Buffalo’s).

Of course, relative motivation is always a factor, and folks have put forth some novel theories as to how the desperate Browns keep this one close against a Ravens team coming off a big emotional win over the Patriots. So uh, any given Thursday, and all that. Stranger things have happened,* so grab your flask, say your prayers, and here’s your Thursday night special Shurmurball open thread.

—————

*Lie.

  • BIKI024

    Bye bye Manny Acta.. does Shurmur follow him out?

    • maxfnmloans

      Sandy deserves a shot, but Manny wasn’t the problem this year for the Tribe. Over the weekend, I was wondering if there would be a way to have co-managers for a team, where Manny was in charge for the first 2 months, and then Eric Wedge for the final 4 months. “Manic Wacta” could be the best manager in Baseball.

      Also, I have a weird feeling in my gut about tonight. One of those “whenever everybody is picking one side, invariably the other will win” kind of feelings. Or, perhaps it’s the Souvlaki I had for lunch from Mad Greek

      • BIKI024

        yeah that suggestion has been made countless times by several people in Cleve media, and you guys are on to something. but unfortunately not sure what Tony LaRussa could do with the talent we have.

        • maxfnmloans

          very true re: LaRussa (or Torre, Sparky Anderson, Earl Weaver, Connie Mack…).

          Also, my apologies, I’m no longer a resident of Cleveland so the only Cleveland media I’m exposed to are websites like Frowns, WFNY and Reboot.

          However, it is also possible that I am not as quick witted as I lead myself to believe

          • bupalos

            Possible

      • wiseoldredbeard

        Your comment made me want to drink a beer and watch football (and eat Mad Greek). Like.

        • Petefranklin

          Im only 50 miles from the Mad Greek in Baker Ca right now.

    • Jim

      And Shapiro and Antonetti come back for yet another season. I think it’s clear Acta was going to be fired. You don’t fall off a cliff like the Indians did after the all-star break without sacrificing a few lambs.

      That being said, this team was terribly constructed to compete in this self-proclaimed window of contention. That blame falls squarely on the front office and yet they walk away unscathed.

      • wiseoldredbeard

        Odd tweets by Shapiro. Seems to be blaming everyone…

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      Can Acta replace him…tonight?

      Would it be worse?

      /still bitter from losing over/under bet on Tribe which I thought was the surest bet I have made in my adult life.

  • Jeff

    Is anyone else bothered by seeing Shurmur in Browns apparel? Every time I see his picture, inexplicable rage.

    • Kamov

      I’m worried that he’s trying to see if he can touch his eyes and that the next shot in the sequence ends in tears. Can’t really hate someone just because the world is a bizarre and mysterious place full of inexplicable things like magnets and why goldfish heaven is somewhere inside the toilet .

      • Beeej

        “Hey Moe!!!” Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

  • Bryan

    This game is so big that the NFL brought the real refs back.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

    It’s hard to get excited about anything after reading this. This site used to get me fired up. I loved Mangini. I loved reading the well thought out arguments and logic that was a staple of this site. It now seems to have been replaced by a constant stream of negativity that comes off smelling like a whining little toddler with shit his pants after a temper tantrum over a stolen favorite toy. At some point can we get over it? At some point can we get over it? How many wins did you expect from this team this year? I’m no giant fan of Shurmur, but I don’t blame him for everything under the sun either. I even feel like he gets shit on harder because he looks like a grown-up Opie and not a hardass like some of the other coaches around the league. With respect to tonight’s game (which by all means, I assume will be very ugly) what excuses will you offer up for the Ravens if somehow Shurmur finds his nut?

    • Defenestration

      “It’s hard to get excited about anything after reading this.”

      Challenge accepted.

      http://sarahsprague.com/2010/09/02/friday-football-foodie-homemade-bacon-bourbon-popcorn/

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

        Instant boner.

      • acto

        Everything is better with bacon!

      • Believelander

        I was harder than a diamond in an ice storm until I realized this woman is a Steelers’ fan.

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      When someone is unjustly fired and the team goes steamrolling straight down into the abyss after finally showing some promise, people tend to get pissed off. Anyhow, I’m not entirely sure what you want anyone to get over. The Browns are 0-3 (again) and with the exception of (maybe?) the Colts, there isn’t a game in sight that they have a chance of winning.

      So I await your blog where everything Browns related is sunshine, puppies and rainbows. Please pass the link along when you get it going.

      • BIKI024

        yes the 2010 Brown showed grittiness, toughness and “promise”, but it was with a roster that was one of the oldest rosters in the league and that needed to be overhauled, so we have no idea how the team would’ve progressed from ’10 to ’11 to this year with the significant roster rebuild/turnover that needed to take place for the roster to sustain any sort of continuity.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      “How many wins did you expect from this team this year?”

      Zero to four-ish. I don’t think I could have been any clearer about that.

      “At some point can we get over it?”

      Sure, when Team Holmgren either is given its walking papers or makes it to the Super Bowl, whichever comes first. I’ve said this a million times as well.

      “With respect to tonight’s game (which by all means, I assume will be very ugly) what excuses will you offer up for the Ravens if somehow Shurmur finds his nut?”

      Gawd, who knows? But that’s why they play the games. Something about blind squirrels, probably.

      • Kamov

        Squirrels are definitely key to this team’s success. I think I heard Holmgren say that or something like it.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Ghosts, too. Tonight is the first Browns/Ravens game since Modell’s passing. Maybe St. Pete gave old Arty an assignment for tonight.

          • 910Derp

            St. Peter’s in hell?

          • Kamov

            Liked for taking that fat juicy meatball, smashing it outta the park, and dancing on home plate.

          • bupalos

            I want to like this more. Post it again so I can like it some more.

      • bupalos

        Revisionist. I think zero to zero-ish is more accurate.

    • Beeej

      I hear MKC writes a pretty sweet column.

      • Kamov

        It’s both weird and funny to note the things she decides are a person’s most notable feature. It’s interesting how often she defines people using physical characteristics, like Haslam with his broad shoulders and Jauron with his fit build, or Mitchell Schwartz and his size 18 shoes.

        • Believelander

          Everyone has their own style, I guess that’s one of the bright colors she uses on her canvas. It’s really very literary, with an author-like descriptiveness that creates the associative imagery in the reader’s mind that the author wants to create without writing too much.

        • acto

          From the MKC diary:

          Dear Sigmund,

    • bupalos

      Why do people tell other people to “get over” things? When did anyone ever “get over” something because someone else told them to?

    • Believelander

      Not trying to feed, but I have to agree to an extent. The reason I pretty much exited this site for several months was because it was impossible to have respect for a lot of what was being written here. Also, the (Edited by a moderator) tag smacks of another part of the reason I left these parts. I can’t assume it wasn’t edited for inappropriate vulgarity, but that has often not been the case and we’ll leave it at that.

      That said, Shurmur sucks, Holmgren sucks, and I think when Joe Banner comes in he should keep his former GM (Tom Heckert) intact.

      Also, Shurmur did not find his nut, and wasn’t going to find his nut. I was unaware that he only had one nut, but that would half explain why he always seems to coach like he has no balls.

  • maxfnmloans

    I know Bill Simmons isn’t what he used to be, but his latest article has an interesting take on the game tonight, from a gambler’s perspective:

    “I always lean toward grabbing 12 or more points in any NFL game unless one or more of the following conditions apply:

    A. I’m going against a home team playing a night game.

    B. I’m going against a top-five team playing at home.

    C. A + B.

    D. I don’t trust the QB on the road team even a little.

    E. The road team doesn’t have one of those offenses that can easily get you a garbage-time touchdown cover when you’re trailing by 17 with 90 seconds left.

    Tonight’s Browns-Ravens game (Baltimore favored by 12) somehow hits all five of those checkmarks … and we didn’t even mention yet that it’s Brandon Weeden’s first nationally televised game. Yikes. Vegas can’t make this line high enough.”

    This “hurts” all the more because it is all true…although the argument cold be made the Ravens are not “Top 5″ in the league. I don’t know by who, but anything is possible

    • BIKI024

      would be great to get Simmons on #CheddarBay so we can actually monitor the success rate of his rants/picks. plus the guy loves to hide behind his podcast and blog with his attempts at humor at the expense of a player, team, coach or city.. he is pretty funny most of the time, but anytime i’ve seen him in same setting as an athlete or coach, he shrivels up like a weasly Jeff Van Gundy on Patrick Ewing’s leg.

      • maxfnmloans

        yeah, before he got as popular as he is, he used to say a lot of stuff, but now that he’s got the gravitas to get the big names he totally panders to them like a 14 year old fan boi.

        Like you say though, still good for a laugh.

        +1 for an excellent simile

      • NeedsFoodBadly

        He does post his record at the end of his columns. So you can calculate his success rate pretty easily. For NFL action, I would wager that you are a better bettor than he is.

      • bupalos

        Yeah people who avoid cheddar are the absolute worst.

        • Believelander

          Well f*** you too

    • Steve

      Just saw “The Master” last night, and heard a line that this post made me remember, something along the line of “he’s making it up as he goes along”. Simmons does something like this all the time, and people eat it up. He makes pseudo-intellectual-at-best points about a game, and then pretends he’s been successful/made money gambling using that “theory” for some time now. If he can’t even do that, he tries to apply some story about going to Vegas with his buddies or an 80s movie, as if either of those would somehow make sense. And the lowest common denominator just goes along with it.

      I get why he’s popular, the same reason that sports talk radio is, but I have no idea why anyone, anywhere, thinks (or ever thought) he has any idea how to analyze a game.

    • Believelander

      So happy Bill Simmons was proven once again to be full of shit.

  • wiseoldredbeard

    I hate the Ravens. Why?* Because they should be mine, and they aren’t. I also find it infuriating that they are in our division, and repeatedly embarass us. To make matters worse, living in DC I frequently encounter subhumans who for some reason feel compelled** to go out of their way to “inform” me about how I should really love the Ravens since they used to be the Browns, how it was really Cleveland’s fault and not Modell’s, and how I’m petty and stupid for hating them.

    Pat Shurmur most know this. He must know how we feel about the Ravens. He must know that winning a Thursday night game against a divisional opponent could save his job.*** That’s got to be the reason he had the team practicing for the Ravens LAST week. A win vs. the Ravens is worth 40 wins over the Bills. That’s why, for one night only, he’s going to abandon Shurmurball. Deep throws. Different looks. 2-point conversions. A fake field goal. A fucking on-side kick to start the game.# I like the idea so much that I can’t even imagine how he wouldn’t do it. It will work, because NO ONE will suspect it.

    Fuck it, I’m so excited now just thinking about it that I’m going out on a limb — Browns by 3. And, if he doesn’t have the balls to abandon Shurmurball, he should be fired before he walks off the field. Pre-handshake. Like, as the clock hits zero Haslam is standing next to him like he’s next to a ref about to call a last second time out. That way, I’ll have something be happy about as I stumble home from another Browns loss.

    *I apologize in advance for explaining something you already know.
    **My theory is that this compulsion is rooted in the shame of being the beneficiary of one of the most objectionable actions in the history of professional sports.
    ***Sure, the odds of him keeping his job are about 1/679,098, but that doesn’t mean he won’t battle or flash.
    #As Frownie is sure to point out, this is what Mangini would do (#WWMD). And, he’s right.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      I try to describe the Ravens to non-sports fans as the evil alternate reality Browns.

    • nj0

      Haslam is staring as the clock ticks on… 6… 5…. 4… bends down and starts pulling out the pink slip he keeps in his sock ala Belichick… 3… 2…

    • BigDigg

      The irony of a Baltimore fans rationalizing stealing our team slays me. Can’t respect the city or people because of it. I can understand why Oklahoma City fans don’t lose sleep over stealing the Sonics, but you’d never find a decent Seattle fan wishing to steal someone else’s team. Once you’ve been burned by that you wouldn’t wish it on anyone else…

      My brother-in-law used to live there and I heard it all the time. Baltimore’s a dump. It’s best attribute is that it’s just close enough to DC and Philly.

      • BIKI024

        are you really labeling the entire city on the actions of Art Modell and bought and paid for city officials at the time? You’ve seen “The Wire” right?

        Baltimore and it’s suburbs is a great area and place to raise a family, people are very nice, definitely has a midwest feel to it. plus the food, my oh my the crab cakes are unreal. this joint is by far the best: http://www.faidleyscrabcakes.com/ right downtown, in Baltimore’s version of West Side Market and i randomly parked my car right next to Edgar Allen Poe’s grave.

        can’t really fault the fans for rooting for an NFL team in their city, particularly one that has had the achievements the Ravens have made since they’ve been there.

        • BigDigg

          Can’t blame them for rooting for their team. Can blame them for telling me that it’s our fault we lost our team. There’s a serious lack of awareness on the facts, and I would guess a bit of denial as well to make sure there’s no guilty feelings there.

          Wear a Browns hat around Baltimore and see how frequently random people bring it up. I think they mean to be nice and all, but still. It’s like if your wife left you for another dude, and then you run into him at the store and he explains that maybe you should consider driving a Porsche like his if you want to hold onto your lady next time. Is helpful.

        • acto

          Biki,
          I have never seen “The Wire”, I only go see romantic comedies when I go to the movies, but that is not my point.
          What I am wondering is, when did you get so thoughtful and logical?
          Did someone else write that last post for you?
          What happened to you “damn the logic torpedoes, full emotion ahead” attitude?

          Are you in love?

  • DR Tom

    My bet; Haslam drops Shurmur day one of ownership. No reason not to.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    I’ve got $4 dollar vodka and cranberry juice. This is going to be fun.

  • bupalos

    So much for that “real refs will bring the safety back to the game.” Scariest hit I’ve ever seen.

    • Believelander

      I was shaking in anger and frustration at that play. The refs had to pick up the flag because that wasn’t an illegal hit. They should have just overturned it on the review and said Cribbs lost his helmet first. I mean out of simple decency. But no, nearly killing/paralyzing/damaging a guy’s brain results in reward of getting possession.

      • bupalos

        Was the flag down for the hit and they picked it up??!?? I couldn’t hear (because of my outsized party lifestyle) and assumed it was just for something else on the browns that they picked up out of respect for the dead.

        • Believelander

          Yes, the flag was down and they picked it up because that wasn’t an illegal hit, which is a problem. I felt that the refs should have discouraged it by finding ‘clear evidence’ on the review that the helmet came off before the ball popped loose and given the ball to the Browns.

          The tough thing on that play (and for the NFL) is something I’ll have to look at the All-22 to see better. Ellesbe put his shoulder-headish region into Josh’s head and nearly killed him, but Josh was at a 45-degree angle due to the ankle tackle bringing him down. If you’re on the punt coverage team, when you watch Josh Cribbs game film on Tuesday, they stress that this isn’t some speedster that you arm tackle; his agility and cuts have always distracted people from the fact that he blows through arm tackles like a John St. Turnstile. So if you’re Ellesbe, you’re doing it wrong if you’re not lowering the boom to put your shoulder right between the ’1′ and ’6′ on his jersey.

          The reason I want to see the All-22 (didn’t someone say they signed up for it?) is to see the point at which Ellesbe committed to that hit, because if he put the shoulder down when Josh was already going down, then it’s a dirty, scummy move. If he was already bending over before Josh started to tip, there’s not much you can say about it other than football is a brutal, dangerous game.

          • bupalos

            Thanks, good work there. I think I’m going to shell out to all-22 btw, and since I’m starting to consider you a member of my household I think copyright allows me to share it with you.

            So they did screw the call, but I think the rule should simply take intent and all that out of it so there is no need to do a psychological tick-tock in slow mo on these things. It should simply be that if a runner loses the football clearly because of a blow to the head, it’s dead ball. And hopefully not dead player. There should not be any way to benefit from a pure head shot, whether intended or not or somewhere inbetween.

          • acto

            Bupa, how does one get “All-22″?
            I miss the days of cameras mounted on the upper deck and seeing what the hell was going on.
            It is hard for me to watch football on TV because I hate close-ups.
            I want to see the coverage, the rotations, how the corners start their play, bump, back, or follow, et cetera.
            I do not care about the ball, I want to watch the defense.
            I am not interested in the quarterback’s nose hairs.

    • Beeej

      That was the first play I saw when I turned on the T.V. last night. I saw the hit and said, “Well, he just got murdered.” I was distracted by the kids for a minute and when I turned back to the screen everybody was around Cribbs praying, and I thought, “Holy shit. I just witnessed a murder.” The hit was brutal, but it looked completely legal to me. My kids will never be playing football.

  • Steve White

    So I watch the first quarter and see Greg Little fail to catch two passes. They weren’t “drops”, I suppose, and one could argue that they weren’t the absolute easiest passes to catch, but c’mon buddy, put your hands together when the ball is between them.

    • Steve White

      So, okay, that one catch made up for the two he didn’t make.

    • Steve White

      Oh goodness. Seven points — not — when it would change the game.

      Please catch the ball, Mr. Little.

      • bupalos

        That was a tough ?!@#ing catch you’re talking about there. Nonetheless, Boldin makes it. And there, my friends, is the difference between dumpster fire and superbowl.

        • BIKI024

          i think the whole world saw we’re not a dumpster fire. i was just at the snobbiest sports bar in the USA where everyone in there had the Ravens and they all were impressed with the Browns grittiness and not “laying down”. it is what it is.. but that’s 4 games in a row where we had a chance to tie, take the lead, or had the lead in the 4th quarter. Little had another YUGE drop, wow, could’ve been down to 3 on that. OMG we’re close.

          • bupalos

            That’s not a drop. That was a tough catch. And the one he made was not to be expected and turned the game around. To quote a wise man, Greg Little is not the problem with the Cleveland Browns.

          • BIKI024

            i didn’t say he is/was the problem. but the Ravens made a ton of touch catches tonight.. the bottom line is that we’ve been short 2-3 plays away.. another year, some more talent, most likely a better coach and maybe we’re winning these. bottom line in all 4 games we’ve had a the lead, chance to take the lead or chance to tie in the 4th quarter. baby steps with the Baby Browns. we’re doin it with 1st and 2nd year guys, not wily vets.

          • BigDigg

            I agree it’s not just on Little here and it’s not helpful when the media and our own coaching staff suggest as much.

            That said – as a receiver at some point in your career you have to show that you can make that play. It’s not enough to just look the part. I think our receivers are better this year (Benjamin looks good thus far, Mass was showing signs…) but we’ll need more to help the rookie QB. Razer thin margin with this team.

  • nj0

    D-line looks good. Wish we had one guy on offense who could catch.

    • nj0

      Marecic may be the only FB I’ve ever seen that runs behind the HB.

      • Jim

        I thought I was the only one who saw that. Richardson got to the hole before Marecic did to block. How is that possible?

        • Believelander

          The reason Richardson is so strong in the weight room is because he can actually warp space with his mind to shorten the distance his body must travel, increasing his speed as well as making it easier to displace other matter.

          #Explain’d.

          • Jim

            This makes me feel better about the future of the Browns. If our running back has found a way to circumvent the space-time continuum, the possibilities are endless.

        • nj0

          They showed a replay, kind of a close up shot, where Richardson is kind of running at the camera, and – as Trent bulldozes bodies -in the background you can see Marecic trying to find someone to block.

      • acto

        njo,
        It is part of the game plan, it is called “The Reggie Bush Push”.

    • nj0

      #4 MVP

      I swear, his leg has gotten stronger the older he has got.

      • Believelander

        Phil Dawson Fact of the Day: the NFL changed the nature of field goal/extra points to reviewable prior to the 2008 season due to Phil Dawson popping two field goals off the stanchion (one back on to the field of play in the most insane Browns win of all time in the Browns-Ravens ‘Stanchion’ game) in 2007. This rule is known as the ‘Phil Dawson rule’. This has been your Phil Dawson Fact of the Day.

        • bupalos

          Second Phil Dawson fact of the day: The guy belongs in the hall of fame.

          • CleveLandThatILove

            Leg lamp?

          • bupalos

            Phil Dawson leg lamp. I’m on it.

            You’re a savant, CTIL.

          • Believelander

            My vision was rather than a leg lamp, the lamp mounted on one of those backings for a neon sign; the sign would be an orange and brown football player with a cleverly placed ’4′ somewhere on the torso, and a little football at his foot, but it would be one of those neons that alternate so the ball takes off and the leg goes up. Like, they could make that the Phil Dawson Hall of Fame Memorial Lamp and I would buy 10 cases.

          • acto

            Very nice CLTIL,
            It is a Major Award.

          • Beeej

            It’s a major award.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Fra-gee-lay.

            That must be Italian.

          • Believelander

            In honor of Phil Dawson, there are some Phil Dawson Facts of the Day I am going to try to spout once per calendar day from now until we play the Giants 10 days from now. Going to save some of my Phil Dawson knowledge instead of replying here. Gotta keep coming up with good facts.

        • Believelander

          Good stuff from Bupa and CLTIL, and since my Phil Dawson Fact of the Day came in on the other side of the 12:00 marker, I’m going to get another one in since today is a new day.

          Phil Dawson Fact of the Day 9/28/2012: On 9/27/2012, Phil Dawson set a record for most 50+ yard field goals in a half of any NFL game in history with 3.

          Another record is currently being tabulated, for most perfect splitting of the uprights of any kicker to nail 3 50+ yarders in a game, as well as most pantie creamings incited by a kicker in NFL football history. This has been your Phil Dawson Fact of the Day.

          • bupalos

            >>>for most 50+ yard field goals in a half of any NFL game in history with 3.>>>

            In the rain. And only one had any hint of suspense to it.

          • Believelander

            RIGHT??? That second field goal would have been good from 150.

          • nj0

            It’s that lack of suspense that is truly amazing to me.

            “Oh, Dawson is lining up for another 50-yarder. Anybody need anything from the fridge?”

      • acto

        njo,
        Another easy explanation, this is called the Balco effect, or Barry Bonds’ Syndrome.
        For further detail see The Simpson’s Episode, “Homer at the Bat”.

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    I like beer.

    Battling sobriety.

    • acto

      Fight the good fight PML!
      I have battled sobriety and beat in into submission.
      I stay drunk.

  • Believelander

    #DRINK

    • BIKI024

      come on man, we battled.. we clearly don’t have the same talent level as they do, and obviously inferior coaching, yet we had a chance to tie the game at the end.. and of course another COVER in the books baby! betting on the Browns is a cash cow! this “win” makes us 8-2-1 in last 10 ATS. HOLLA

      • CleveLandThatILove

        When will I learn? When does the rookie period end in sports betting? Poo.

        • bupalos

          Errr….it ends right about when you stomp mudholes in 31 out of 32 other contestants, as per last year?

        • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

          You called the shit poo!

      • Believelander

        Nobody cares about your earnings.
        Wait.
        Hang on.
        Something coming in from Peter King.

        OK, your mom cares, which makes sense, because she loves you.

        Nobody else cares.

      • acto

        Alright Biki!
        You must have put those “Rose Colored Glasses” down on the bar for a bit.
        “obviously inferior coaching,”
        I am saving this quote on my clipboard for further use.

    • bupalos

      >>>>#DRINK>>>

      I’m trying to figure out how far ahead of you I am. but I can’t.

    • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

      I be flashing 12% triple IPAs that are battling with my liver – also, the Asian glow is in full effect – lit up like a Christmas tree.

      • acto

        PML,
        Must be nice PML, theoretically the effects of alcohol should also last longer for you, you lucky…. oh…. well…. lucky man of a certain ethnic origin.
        I have the dreaded “Slovak Syndrome”, I drank a massive amount of alcohol during the game, then by the time I finished about a half mile walk home after the game I felt completely sober.
        Feeling sober is not good after a Browns’ game.

        • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

          It was quite amusing to my friends in college seeing a 220 lb Linebacker ready to pass out after 3 beers.

          • acto

            That is funny PML.
            I envy you for being the correct size too.
            I was a 260lbs cover corner and I bristled when they tried to make me play linebacker.
            I was way faster than anybody on the team, but some dum coaches only see size and shape.
            Where did you play?

          • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

            After dallying around a few 1-aa programs, I took my talents to a small college in Western PA – my deep seeded hatred started there.  Only played a few years.

  • Believelander

    The irony is, this is the signature game of Pat Shurmur’s tenure as Browns’ head coach. This is the first game he showed me something as a coach, the first game I really felt “Oh yeah, he got these guys ready for a really good NFL team”. But we’re 0-4, and Mangini’s got to have a small, ironic smirk at this point.

    • nj0

      I was thinking the same thing.

      What does it say that the best game of his career includes the coach taking a 15-yard penalty from the sideline?

      • bupalos

        Why was this the best game of Shurmur’s career? I really didn’t see a single thing he did especially right. He mindlessly repeated some things that worked (wr screeens– to totally mixed effect because he went Mr. obvious like he always does) he continued to call idiot timeouts, and either he or Weeden seemed to shell up when things got bad (outside of the Little streak).

        What did he do differently? Nothing. The Raven’s D-line is not that much without Suggs, so our O-line looked borderline competent, and we stayed in it better than last week.

        Jauron does a nice job of keeping things kind of random, that’s the best coaching and almost the only coaching on this young and increasingly talented team. Billy Winn is a win. Jabal is a big win. Hughes can play. This D-line is close to going monster and we have a #1 pick coming back in 4-6 games.

        • Believelander

          And yet, after what you said above, this was the best game of Shurmur’s career.

        • nj0

          While his play calling wasn’t amazing, I thought it was the best yet for him. There were actually a few plays where I thought – great call. Granted, there were some whole series that were terrible and there was the 15-yard penalty and there was the general predictability we’ve all come to know and love…. but still I thought it was his best yet.

    • BIKI024

      do you honestly think our roster is on par with the Ravens roster that has been built and cultivated over a 10+ year period??? we had half of our team being rookies and 75% 2nd year or less. i really don’t get why you can’t feel optimistic about the group. the coach is most definitely gone, so just focus on the talent. we finally have 30+ homegrown guys, and they all each individually “flash” all over the place. we spread the ball around, we spread the wealth again on defense as well. Weeden looked pretty good, baby steps for the kid. i like what i saw. onward and upward!

      • bupalos

        >>>the coach is most definitely gone>>>

        From your mouth to dr. frackenstein’s ears.

        But at heart I agree. Guys are starting to flash, battle, etc. This was without our best player, folks.

      • Believelander

        So like I said, he got these guys up for a game against a really good NFL team. My post above started positive, but we just lost in hair-ripping fashion and you’ll excuse me if I’m not jumping out of the gym right now. Don’t talk to me about talent – I know this team is talented. Tim Fucking Couch was far more talented than he’ll ever get credit for. Lots of guys are talented but it won’t mean a thing if they never get it together, as they never have but for brief guttering sputtering sparks in the last 13 years. I’m frustrated that Pat Shurmur’s tenure is done because as much as I want to get the God damn thing over with, I’d REALLY have much rather he pulled some Bill Walsh Fu out of his ass pocket and run the Browns to a 3-1 start in the frustratingly close games they’ve lost. Instead, much like Mangini in 2010, we’re on the outside looking in and it’s poised to get a lot uglier than it did for Mangini in 2010, maybe even uglier than 2009, and we’re going to start over again. All I ever wanted from Pat Shurmur was for him to prove me wrong, keep his job, and really make our football team good but guess what? Instead we have to pray that the new leadership coming in doesn’t blow the whole thing up when they shouldn’t, but with the egos in football, who knows? So that’s where we’re at here as Cleveland Browns fans here in the city of Cleveland, nothing but unrealized talent and hope for 2-3 years from now, the same place we’ve been since 1999 and beyond. So please take your tone deaf annoying fake sunshiny positivity back to Jets land, because it’s honestly just aggravating that you try to sound smarter and bigger-man-er than people while talking about how talented our giant steamy shit sandwich is week in and week out. Thanks.

        • bupalos

          You need to go pay-per-view Bleeland.

          I’d pay.

          • Believelander

            Pay what, to see me walk up in front of a microphone like a stand-up comedian and then just unload on someone/thing? Shit, I’d do it and it’d be the cheapest PPV event you ever bought. Won’t take much to up my pay scale.

          • acto

            Funny stuff Believe,
            “The uncouth Norse belligerence I demonstrate (probably not my shiniest quality) is why we were able to periodically lay waste to much of the western half of Eurasia for 400 years”

            It must be terrific to have a heritage to brag about, like your Nordic nature or PML’s magic drunky gene.

            It sucks that the only thing anyone can say about my dim witted ancestors is “That is where the word “slave” comes from.”
            ****DRINK****

          • Beeej

            Speaking as someone who is half Norwegian, half Czech/Slovak, and half Korean I love being a 6’2″ blond haired blue eyed, drain clogger, that does great on standardized tests.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            so you are 150% of a person??

          • Beeej

            My better half is 100% Korean. I lived there for 6 years and am well versed in Confucian dynamics as they relate to work and parental fealty. On several occasions I’ve had to explain to Asian-American friends with Asian-Asian bosses what they did that was so offensive to their boss. Kind of like Scott Fujita being Japanese, except with more cultural experience.

          • acto

            Beeej, How did I get into this?
            Please tell me it was just a coincidence.
            I am a 100% Slovak, 6′ 2″ blonde/blue, dum guy, but I destroy standardized tests.
            Was I bragging in a drunken stupor that I do not remember, or am I taking offense for no reason.

  • bupalos

    Let me just preempt tomorrow’s post.

    The Ravens are the new second worst team in the league (despite of course getting whatever they want whenever they wanted it on the browns, as proven by thet first drive after half which was was sooooo easy.) And plus, the Browns never would have scored at all except for one lucky catch, and if the Ravens had just handed the ball to Ray Rice one hundred billion times they could have just cancelled the game anyway since he had a 4.8672 average. Plus again they weren’t trying hard anyway.

    Sorry but I’m pissed that captain freakout just tossed a ball out the backside of the endzone when there was NOTHING WORSE THAT HE COULD HAVE DONE.

    GAGAGAJGKAJDGAKSJDLGKAJSDOGIAJ.

    cover.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      You missed one – this close loss was the result of two weeks of gameplanning, since Shurmur decided not to prepare for Buffalo last week in lieu of more Ravens preptime.

      The net result being a loss, natch.

      • Believelander

        Lol Frownie just got

        (Edited by a moderator)

  • bupalos

    You all realize CLEVTA’s got you right where he wants you when you start subscribing to his picks, right?

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      for historical perspective, it’s approaching unprecedented. 21-5 is molto bene. i cant remember a larger lead off hand.

      fred coupon’s run of 16-1-1 over three weeks last year is the gold standard. others were dood was 17-6-1 over four weeks and i had a three week run of 11-1 in the old (4 teams/week) format. and of course biki started out this year with 13-3-1.

      wont talk about the current thing because thatd be a jinx, no?

      if anyone wants to explore comparable hot streaks, cheddar record keeping started two years ago and they’re here:
      2010 (excel spreadsheet) and 2011

  • Bryan

    Can someone please point out that Weeden can ball? Yes, he still is learning and yes that pick was a backbreaker, but the dude has a great arm, is clearly making better reads, is clearly getting better under pressure, and makes several elite throws each game that reveal SERIOUS upside. Our offense is already more vertical and balanced, and we still don’t really have a legit #1 or #2 NFL receiver. There were literally 8-10 balls that were dropped tonight. Weeden could have had 400 and at least 1 TD if the WRs do anything….

    #NeedinSomeWeeden

    • bupalos

      Agree on the verticality, agree on the theoretical upside… but that’s about it. He once again left a ton on the field and gave the bad guys the 7 points that won it, while trying for a possible 6 yards if everything went just right.

      This marks the 4th game that I think Chips would have given us the better chance to win. Still rather play Weeds before his eligibility runs out, but “he can ball” is a ways off I think.

      And there were not 8-10 “drops.” Maybe 3.

      • Believelander

        Errrr…………..if you give like 5-7 drops to the rain.

        • bupalos

          Unless the 6 plays I missed were all drops, I think you guys are calling tough catches drops.

          • Believelander

            OK, they’re tough catches, but the point is, you called them tough ‘catches’. The players dropped 6 balls that were completely catchable. A few Weeden put pretty much right where he needed to to fit the ball into coverage and they dropped them anyway. The point is, Weeden put a double digit number of footballs onto the hands of our wideouts that ended up as incompletions. Not saying they should haul in every one of those, but besides Steady Ben Watson, they didn’t really haul in any. Maybe 1 kinda neat G-Little catch.

          • trashycamaro

            The difference between a good NFL receiver and a replaceable NFL receiver is the ability to make the tough catches on a consistent basis. One of those good NFL receivers can make all the difference.

            See: Braylon Edwards/Derek Anderson and that one time the Browns almost made the playoffs.

      • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

        My brother ran into TO at 4:30 am the other day at a 7-11 in Westwood buying milk and cereal. Something tells me he’s available. I would seriously sign him in a heartbeat.

    • BIKI024

      i heard a bunch of Ravens fans giving him some love tonight, so we got that goin for us. but yeah, he certainly passes the eye test. so hopefully the receiving corp continues to develop with him and we continue to see some big plays out of Little, and even Gordon got into the mix, he made a couple big plays as well.. baby steps

    • Believelander

      ^

      He also threw a quack for pick-6 and threw the last play of the game with a chance to tie out of the back of the end zone. He’s got ways to go and a lot less time than other NFL quarterbacks to do it. However seeing him get out there and ball out against the Ravens was exciting. The receivers butchered a lot of catchable balls, and he’s already making better game decisions like you said. When he plugged T-Rich in the butt to ensure an incompletion on a throw-away with sack pressure bearing down on him, a lot of rookies might have lofted it toward the sidelines forgetting that that running back blocking is still an eligible receiver.

      Also, Trent Richardson going up to the line of scrimmage and standing up a linebacker on that play was pretty impressive too. Lots of good stuff out of the young players today, even the wide receivers. The drops have to stop. Weeden could stand to bring the passes down 1-2 inches, it’s a lot easier to catch a pass 2 inches below your full extension than at your full extension because when you’re really stretching for the ball it makes all your muscles tighten up which stiffens your hands.

      Still, everyone made some back-breaking drops (except Clockwork Ben Watson) and you’re right, cut the receiver-caused incompletions in half and the complexion of that ballgame could have looked REALLY, REALLY different at the end.

    • Bryan

      I honestly have no idea what people see in McCoy. Weeden moved the ball all over the field against the Ravens on the road in a close game. No way McCoy does that.

      Yes, Weeden has room to grow and he is hurting us right now with the occasional big mistake, but McCoy? Really? I honestly got sick to my stomach watching our offense last year. McCoy has no upside. I like him as a team guy. But I don’t get all of this talk that we would have performed better with him this year.

  • Believelander

    Sobering in the interim waiting for news on Josh Cribbs, Scott Petrak just tweeted that T.J. Ward has a cast on his hand (nothing on whether it’s broken as of yet), and our only depth at safety, Usama Young and Tashaun Gipson, are both getting their knees looked at. This could be a hot, hot, hot mess at New Meadowlands in 10 days. The good news: Cribbs, Ward, Young, and Gipson all have 3 extra days to lick those wounds.

  • Believelander

    Silly Phil Dawson Factoid: According to the Phil Dawson stat page at the Worldwide Leader’s site, ESPN.com, Phil Dawson has made 4 field goals of 50+ yards in seasons where his recorded long field goal was 48 or 49 yards.

    • acto

      Believe,
      Obviously more Biki Math.

  • Believelander

    Positive game notes from last night’s game (will probably repost into Friday Frowns post):

    0) Let’s just get it out of the way: Pat Shurmur and Mike Holmgren are gone. A sensational win last night could have steered this ship on a different course, but it’s now sailed. OK, now onto REAL positive notes.

    a) Billy Winn. Was literally. Everywhere. A guy with 2 sacks through 3 games, he’s starting to show some of those Shurmurisms (flash, grit, battle, competitiveness) we saw from him in the preseason. Our starting interior is now comprised of two 6th round draft picks until Phil Taylor gets back, and they’re looking okay.

    b) Craig Robertson. Was everywhere-er than Billy Winn. Who is this person? Did he attend university? Nobody knows? Well whatever.

    c) Brandon Weeden has passed for 997 yards. He is on pace to pass for 3,988 yards. If any of our receivers learn to catch the football as the season progresses, he should pass for roughly 8,893 yards instead.

    d) Baltimore advanced the ball and stuff on us, especially in the second half. They also did not score offensive points after the first drive in the second half, which means

    e) Our defense played more than well enough to win against the #2 scoring team in the NFL. Piggybacking off this point, they held the Ravens to 3.7 yards per carry rushing.

    f) We’ve moved beyond the point of ‘Greg Little might be a good receiver if he can learn to catch the ball’. We’ve moved into the territory of ‘Greg Little might be a monster if he can learn to catch the ball’. Not one of the catchable passes he didn’t haul in was because of the defender. While this is a serious indictment on his ability to succeed at his position at this level, Greg Little got 10 targets, 4 catches. He’s 6’3″, he’s powerful, he’s fast, he’s running the routes (<—- huge) to put himself in the correct position to make the catch. He's doing literally everything he needs to except securing the catch. While this is a huge problem for him, it also means that it gives him 1 thing to focus on to really turn himself into a serious piece of beef on the outside of a formation.

    g) The Ravens left points on the field, but other than the botched extra point, the Browns get credit for the rest. The pick on Flacco was great defensive scheming – Dick Jauron out coached Cam Cameron; knowing their tendency to throw the end zone corner fade, he actually had Craig Robertson run a wheel route from the middle linebacker position where he was hinting blitz on the pre-snap read. Stuff like this is really hard for a quarterback to pick up on a post-snap read, because when Flacco was looking to where he was targeting and through his release, Craig Robertson wouldn't even be visible to him. Great call by the Browns here.
    Following up on this point, on the missed Tucker field goal, the Browns moved the Ravens back on that sequence, making it a more difficult field goal.

    h) Phil Dawson

    i) Getting back to Weeden, while his completion percentage was atrocious at under 50% (25/52, 48.1%) he threw 4 Hail Marys to finish the game out. I am not crediting the one he threw out of the end zone. The other 3 are desperation throws (I felt the Browns should have called a post route to the sidelines with 0:15), so let's say 25/49. Now let's say the receiving corps catches just 4 of the passes they could have caught – thinking the stat guys are going to give them 4 drops, but beyond that there were at least 4 more, and I think 8 more, passes that were catchable. That would put him at 29/49. Basically, if his receivers catch 4 of the dozen or so passes that touched their hands without resulting in completions (a fair thing to ask, I know some of those were tough ones but several weren't), that puts his completions outside the 3 hail marys right around 60%. From an accuracy and decision making standpoint, Weeden played well enough to win, even with the pick 6. He moved around in the very small pocket (line was getting collapsed around him all night) enough to avoid all but 1 sack where he stood like literally no chance. Other than the awful toss out of the end zone, there wasn't a single throw where he let the pressure visibly affect his throw, and this is the biggest point, because the biggest of all the question marks is whether he can throw under duress. No one game is going to answer that question, but that's a scary bunch of guys to be acting cool against. Again, other than his bad throw out of the end zone, and his bad pick 6, I didn't feel Weeden made any other really bad judgment calls. That's 2 bad calls on 52 dropbacks, and we're in game 4. If he keeps this up, we'll have to lavish him with Chips McCoy praise of moxie and poise and such.

    Basically, Weeden has in three of his four games looked to be the prospect we thought we were getting. Let's see if he can keep up that trend.

    j) Josh Cribbs is alive.

    k) After Josh Cribbs almost wasn't alive, the Browns' special teams coverage units (and our defense as well) started getting kind of nasty with the Ravens. As much as I don't like the NFL being bloodsport, I would have gone even further, but this was a Browns team that didn't look timid against the vaunted Ravens at any point in any phase, even when they weren't executing well.

    l) Richardson managed to scrape out 3.5 ypc when only getting 14 carries. Note that the Ravens, who averaged 3.7 ypc, broke a 21-yarder by Pierce; their running game looked like crap against the Browns outside of that (aside from that one 20+ run, their ground attack was good for less than 3 yards per carry). Point being, if Richardson got 25 attempts, there's more of a chance he rips off 1 or 2 big runs, and our receivers were having immense trouble hauling in passes. Shurmurball. Oh, while our offensive line was playing generally like mediocre sh*t, and he actually hit the hole on one play before Owen Marecic, his lead blocker (tail blocker….WTF?), Richardson showed some of that touted power (REALLY showed it) by hauling bad guys several yards with him after contact.

    m) speaking of our receivers, Richardson caught all 4 passes thrown to him. He had 6 targets, one of which was to his buttocks while he was blocking the sh*t out of a linebacker and another was a throw away 10 feet over his head out of bounds. He averaged over 14 yards on these 4 receptions, where he had the opportunity to run in space. A Ravens cornerback also veered away from him and swatted at him half-heartedly when he was running at full speed. Maybe he saw Richardson's attempt to murder an Eagles safety who tried to tackle him head on in week 1. Richardson is also averaging over 8 yards per reception. So tonight he showed that he has the burst to get into the hole when it actually exists, power to go straight through tacklers, agility to make guys miss, hands to be an every-down running back, and the ability to stand a blitzing linebacker up straight. As much as I don't think you should spend a 3rd round pick on a running back, he seems to fit the bill as a top-notch offensive weapon.

    o) I'm going to stop now. G'night everyone.

    p) Phil Dawson.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

      This is the best thing I’ve read on here in a long time. And while I’m not as sure as you are that Shurmur is a goner, everything else is spot on. The constant theme, reading here, it that we are garbage every year because of coaching (save the Mangini years) but the underlying truth is that we’ve never had a quarterback capable of impersonating even a second-tier qb, let alone an elite one. An elite qb can make a shitty play call smell like a rose–I constantly think of Roethlisberger’s broken plays against us. We’ve all heard it before: that it’s no coincidence the “great” coaches all just happen to have great qb’s leading their teams. Last night’s game was the first I can remember where our quarterback didn’t look scared, didn’t look in awe of the moment, and made me feel like I was watching a real NFL quarterback lead our team. And it’s his 4th game. It finally feels like we can play these games without a serious handicap at quarterback.
      (Side note: For the McCoy lovers, I can’t take you seriously. Do any of you seriously think McCoy could or would have taken and made any of those shots down the field? Could McCoy throw the ball in the rain? Do you remember his fluttering balls when the weather gets cold and windy. It’s a joke that anyone would suggest him. Luckily, Weeden seems to be shutting them up, one by one.)
      I’m pissed we lost, but I can’t honestly point to any one thing Shurmur did last night that lost the game for us. Last night’s game didn’t make me feel like I was left with a steaming turd on my chest. We lost last night because their players made more plays than our players, plain and simple.

      • nj0

        Shurmur did get a 15-yard unsportsmanlike on a drive that resulted in a FG. We get a TD there, we kick the FG on the last drive and go to OT.

      • Beeej

        0 points in the first quarter…again.

      • Bryan

        Very happy to some Weeden love here.

    • nj0

      Robertson is a Houston boy. Think he went to North Texas. The LB wheel route interception was beyond absurd. Not that I’m some super knowledgeable football guru, but I can’t remember ever seeing a LB do something like that before.

      I’d also add some other pros – the whole defensive line played well as a unit. And more importantly, didn’t fade in the second half like sometimes happens as the game drags on.

      I thought Buster Skrine flashed at times too. Sometimes he looks horrible, but then he’ll step up and make some really nice plays. For a fifth round pick in his first full year, I think he’s performed admirably.

      Finally, Phil Dawson.

      • bupalos

        I think Robertson is also the one that got that interception in philly where he just sniffed it and beat the TE to the spot, I think he has really good instincts.

    • Leftyjsf

      To early to project Weeden’s stats. If we use current sample (tainted by eagles game) in addition to the 3988 yds, you would have 12 Td 28 int.

      I don’t care if Thad Lewis has to start. Wins matter not “pretty throwers.”. Right now Charlie Frye has more wins than Weeden an that ain’t gonna change until Weeden gets W’s. To that avail this isn’t supposed to be a rebuild (6 wins unacceptable) and Weeden not supposed to be a typical rookie due to age.

      It’s not Weeden’s fault though that The Big Dough and Shurmur are writing checks with their mouths that can’t be cashed.

    • Beeej

      f+) GLittle will block down field. The hit he put on Ray Lewis on T Rich’s short catch and run was awesome.

    • acto

      Believe,
      Are you a Brit? You had two markedly English phrases in there.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    just want to send a big eff-you to the PD for providing a ‘why did the browns lose’ poll that doesn’t include coaching as a choice.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Best moment of the game for me was seeing Cribbs upright and smiling. That commercial break was agony, wasn’t it?

    • acto

      Love your compassion CLTIL.
      Perhaps that is why you do what you do.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

    Old scouting report on Weeden for fun. See Deputy Glitters for optimism.

    http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2012/04/draft_winds_breaking_down_bran_1.html

  • BIKI024

    Schlereth is once again proving why he’s one of the best in the business, giving the Clowns some love: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8434126

  • Warburton MacKinnon

    Still don’t get the Weedon love fest in the comments,he wasn’t good as much as he was lucky. Between bad passes(decisions),and truly idiotic play calling,there were probably 3-5 passes the Ravens should have intercepted,we also lucked out that the Travis Benjamin ‘drop’ wasn’t called a fumble,since it was a fumble(you know two feet down,holding the ball,and then advancing with it in a ‘football move’). Just saying that overall the game looked better than it actually was..and of course if Weedon would put the ball where recievers could catch it more often perhaps we could have won,granted I don’t actually believe we could have won. Also the ginger lacking a soul,had one interception that was the Ravens margin of victory,and yes I am one of those who thinks Colt might have won several of this years games,to maximize our rookies we need a game manager NOT a gun slinger right now. Hell,I watched last nights game with a friend who is a GB fan(I live in Milwaukee right now),he said almost all night we need Colt in there,so wanting Colt to play isn’t just a Browns fan idea…from those I have talked too whom are not fans of our team almost all of them think we should play Colt, putting up guady numbers as far as yards go will not win us a game. I saw a great factoid last night about Weedons baseball career,he had just about twice as many losses as wins,just like right now he has just about as twice as many interceptions as td’s,I think it may be a pattern, I know for sure Colt wouldn’t have 7 interceptions by game 4,I know he usually didn’t throw into triple coverage, I know he would throw to the open guy in the flat instead of gunning it high to a man who is covered. I won’t say Weedon can’t play/become a good QB but he’d have been better off sitting for a year or two,oh,wait he can’t cause he is already fucking 28 or is it 29 now. No matter how you look at it it was a fucking stupid ass pick,a waste even,kind of like TR since ya know we barely use him as a RB(Weedon has 167 pass attempts,TR has had 64 rushes),I mean WTF. Hell I bet we would have won more games last year if Shurmer hadn’t tried pass plays 40-60 times a game. We would this year too.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

      Bottom of the barrel stuff there.

      “probably 3-5 passes the Ravens should have intercepted”

      – So should we also count the 3-4 passes Patterson should have intercepted as well?

      “Travis Benjamin ‘drop’ ”

      – You meant Norwood, I assume. And sure, slowed down it looks like he had possession and all, but in real time it’s the correct call, as is made in every game, every week in the NFL. He possessed the ball for a fraction of a fraction of a second. Not enough time to warrant true possession.

      “we need a game manager”

      – A game manager is someone who does just enough to not fuck up and let’s the rest of the team win around him, due to superior talent at other positions, ala Dilfer, or Roethlisberger in his rookie year, or Sanchez occasionally, etc. You think we win that game by letting McCoy throw to the flat and the tight ends on short hot reads all night? That the surplus of talent around him would somehow carry him to these magical wins?

      “I know he usually didn’t throw into triple coverage”

      – He sometimes did. We all know this.

      “I know he would throw to the open guy in the flat instead of gunning it high to a man who is covered.”

      – Isn’t this what infuriated many of us when McCoy and other’s were running the offense. The lack of vertical passing game? Newsflash, everyone in the NFL is ‘covered’ more or less. Good football teams need a qb that can still complete a ball to a ‘covered’ receiver.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        Okay the play might have been to Nowood..I still think it was a fumble,and disagree completely on your last to points, Patterson just sucked allnight long,maybe he SHOULD have intercepted some passes,and maybe he should have covered his receiver better,as we ALL know he did niether.

  • bupalos

    >>>The Browns are a minor-league operation with minor-league talent. Before Thursday night’s game, the Browns had dropped 11 passes in the first three games. They dropped three more in the first half.>>>

    Just for context, the guy is talking pretty specifically about the receivers, and goes on to say that with better receivers, the Browns probably would have won. It’s a fair point; although another fair point would be that our ?#1?? was out. Another fair point is that our best player on defense was out too.

    • acto

      Bupa,
      The key is Oogie Boogie. The Browns really need to move him to receiver. They have more than enough running backs.

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