Battered Browns fans rejoice in seven point loss to sleepwalking Ravens

by Cleveland Frowns on September 28, 2012

“We battled, we came up short and we fought our [tails] off.”Brandon Weeden

“He battled.” — Pat Shurmur on Weeden

“Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden and his young, inexperienced receivers grew up a lot in Baltimore Thursday night, making the Ravens sweat it out until the last play of the game when they had a chance to tie it.” — Mary Kay Cabot

“Nobody gets more excited about a seven point loss than Browns fans.”@TheKardiacKid

—————

As happy as folks were to see the NFL referees back on the field last night, Ravens tackle Michael Oher had to be forcibly restrained from dismembering one of them for making a phantom holding call on a 23-yard Ray Rice run with four minutes left that would have iced the game for Baltimore. Until about three minutes after that, with some 30 seconds left in the game, the Ravens did anything but “sweat it out” last night against the Browns.

At least the Plain Dealer got it half right with the headline to Terry Pluto’s game wrap: “Night of low expectations instead brings some real optimism.” The fans had low expectations for the Browns, the press had low expectations for the Browns, Las Vegas had low expectations for the Browns, and so did the Ravens. Of course the veteran team, coming off an emotional comeback win over the Patriots on the heels of the tragic accidental death of receiver Torrey Smith’s younger brother that same day, playing its fourth game in seventeen days, had every reason to overlook a desperate winless team that it had beaten in eight consecutive match-ups going into last night.

If the Ravens list into a game like that against any other team in the league, they get blasted out of the stadium. But against the Browns, who, according to Trent Richardson, looked past the Bills last week because “[they] were trying to get more prepared for [Baltimore] more than anything,” they hold the lead for the entire game despite a litany of drive-breaking penalties, special teams breakdowns, and a lazy Joe Flacco interception in the Browns’ end zone.

So let’s do backflips, just like we did when the Browns could have sort of almost tied the Bengals only to come back home the next week to get their faces smashed by the Bills. Pluto said the Browns “did some things very right, and that kept [him] watching intently all night.” Everybody keep watching intently, then read all about it in the PD. These future stars are growing up fast.

But we knew Brandon Weeden had a strong arm. We knew the Browns had some really nice young players. How could they not after using so many high draft picks? Anybody can gut a roster and replace it with rookies and first-year players.” When do we get to see these pieces used to make winning game plans against legitimate NFL opponents? 14 touches for Trent Richardson. 50 passes in a downpour. So the Browns avoid complete embarrassment when the expectations for them couldn’t be lower. When do we get to see if they can handle expectations of any other kind?

Ten losses in a row and counting. After three weeks, and still after four, one of two winless teams left in the NFL.

—————

Here’s a must read on NFL and Browns fandom by Pete Beatty at The Classical; and here’s The Baltimore Sun’s Mike Preston calling it “basically a foregone conclusion” that “[o]nce this season is over, the Browns will fire Coach Pat Shurmur.” Preston adds that “President Mike Holmgren will probably be dismissed as well,” and that “[t[he Browns are a minor-league operation with minor-league talent.”

The rest of this weekend’s action, including our NCAA and NFL picks will be in the Cheddar Bay open thread. Hope everyone has a decent go of it until Monday.

  • BIKI024

    regardless of what Baltimore’s effort or overlooking was, i like the physicality the Browns brought, we hit them hard and brought pressure on both sides of the ball. most people thought this was going to be a blowout despite all the reasons mentioned. gotta win the game of course to get true respectability, but after watching that game with a bunch of Ravens fans who were impressed by Weeden and TRich and the defense and especially Travis Benjamin, you gotta feel optimistic about the future as these young guys gel and grow together.

    • dubbythe1

      like somebody said in an article earlier this week.. who cares if the Browns bring it and hit hard if its only after the opponent gained 10-20 yards..

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

      No. I refuse to feel optimistic until they actually, you know, win a game.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      Umm, they are Ravens fans,thus they of course are idiots..so your post is based on the false premise the Ravens fans know what they are talking about( they are also impressed by the covict Ray Lewis).

    • c.scales

      totally agree.

      shurmur will be fired with holmgren, but the core of players drafted by heckert is a start. billy winn and hughes look like steals, when taylor and haden get back they’ll only be better.

      has mangini been hired yet?? haven’t noticed.

    • Steve

      Your Raven friends sound as insightful as Trevor Pryce, who said “they have a quarterback now” about, wait for it, Colt McCoy. Oh boy.

  • Shadow_play

    No mention of Greg Little who is not the problem? (Besides the picture)

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Was the picture not enough for you? What am I supposed to mention, that he couldn’t come down with a ball that he had to lay out backwards for? Or that he made an excellent 42 yard catch to set up a score that kept the Browns in the game?

      • bupalos

        Baggin on Little is nothing short of idiocy. He had a very good game. Could have been great.

        • wiseoldredbeard

          So, the issue is that our expectations are too high? Can’t we find a receiver who makes tough catches all the time?

        • Shadow_play

          By that rationale we could say The Browns had a good game, could have been great. But that’s verboten.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        I’d mention the idiocy of 50+ passes in the rain…

        • ClevelandFrowns

          You’re right. Post fixed.

        • Cliff_cintula

          Warb,
          I was not happy with 50+ passes either, but the offense has the advantage on pass plays in the rain.
          The receiver knows where he is going, the DB must react. It is much harder to react on a wet field.
          It depends on the QB, but I could always get more accuracy and spin with a wet ball. (Although I hated to play on the wrong side of the ball.)
          And as a receiver, DB, punt return and kickoff return guy a wet ball was not hard to catch.

          I grew up in Cleveland, the ball was always wet.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Hmm, Ok,but just because you were good with at wet ball(were you a good player with a wet ball honest question) does not mean folks growing up and playing outside of the great lakes region are. The game plan was against our strength which,granted it doesn’t seem to be,as in running the ball, our O-line is overall better at run blocking,than pass protecting if our QB takes 5-7 steps before throwing the ball. This is on Shurmer,as much as I think Colt could actually win, Shurmers play calling killed him like it’s killing Weedon.

      • Sneeda

        “had to lay out backwards for” Are you implying that it was a bad throw? Because my thought was that ball was thrown exactly where it needed to be thrown to give Little a chance of pulling it in. Improve the o-line, sign a veteran WR and this offense could look alot like Baltimore’s in a year or two.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          I am implying that it was a stupid pass in the rain,and that Little generally doesn’t catch passes that hit his hands,not sure about what Frowns is implying,but it may be in the same vain.

          • Shadow_play

            Flacco was torching them with stupid long passes in the rain.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            that were often put in the chest of a reciever,in other words better passes

          • Shadow_play

            So, it was not a good throw. But was it uncatchable? (by non-Browns receiver standards)

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            probably not but it would have to be a GOOD reciever,not an average one.

      • Believelander

        He had to stretch, but that’s a catch good NFL receivers make, and that was the best throw by Weeden the entire game. To bring this back around to the guy whose fault it really is, if the Shurms didn’t think Greg Little was ready to make big-time catches like that, he should have put Josh Gordon or Jordan Cameron on that route. I understand you need a big athletic body for seam routes like that, but if you’re concerned with Little’s ability to haul that one in, use one of your other two big athletic bodies.

        Or you could run a draw on 2nd and 20 and a screen on 3rd and 17. DRINK!

        • Shadow_play

          That 3rd and 17 screen nearly wrecked me. But then, that’s Shurmerball so I shouldn’t have been surprised.

        • The voice of reason…

          Oh yeah, I make catches like that one in my sleep… I don’t like to keep my feet on the ground when I catch passes anyway, that’s for sissies. And that pass sure was pretty, what with the spinning real fast, and shinyness under the lights, flying through the air, and looking all awesome.

          Seriously though, I’ll buy that that was Weeden’s best pass, it was really bad, just like all the others, but at least it wasn’t thrown into triple coverage, and it was actually a FORWARD pass, unlike all those other stat padding swings and dump offs that they took right out of the Oklahoma State playbook to help the new guy feel at home.

          But was there really any reason to throw it where he did? I mean aside from artistic license of course. They had the defense beat. There was no need for the high fast ball. That’s the problem with starting JUGS machine at quarterback. It only has the one speed…

          And as for Little, the dude’s not perfect. Far from it. But he doesn’t deserve to be scapegoated the way he has been. Don’t drink the dropped pass stat Kool-Aid… there’s a reason drops aren’t treated as official statistics. There are numbers out there for Little that range from 3 all the to 14 for last year.

          But the part that bothers me the most about this witch hunt is that even if you take the highest estimate of Little’s total number of drops in 2011, at 14, he did NOT lead the NFL in dropped passes. That honor went to Roddy White with 15. Other names of note are Brandon Marshall, also with 14, and DeSean Jackson with 13.

          More importantly, Little’s drop rate was not the worst in the league either. He was near the bottom, but the thing is, he still caught 61 of 75 catchable passes thrown his way. That’s just over 81%. 8 out of 10 ain’t bad…

          And don’t forget, Little is not the only one dropping passes. When every receiver on the team suddenly comes down with the dropsies you have to look for the source. That’s the only way to end the epidemic. And there’s only one thing that all of those dropped passes have in common…

      • Cranky M

        He didn’t have to lay out backwards for it. He could have made a better adjustment to the ball, in which case that backwards dive would not have been necessary. Unfortunately, he is apparently incapable of catching the ball over his shoulder.

        Nice to see that you still aren’t willing to admit that Weeden is actually pretty decent. Heaven forbid we say anything good about the Browns….

  • Siperbowl

    Sick of all these fans like Biki accepting that we should get worse and worse every year as part of the process. It is Heckart’s fault we are so young, he should have done this rookie revamp year 1 or 2… he waits until year 3?! More excuses, and all these pathetic fans celebrating close losses is pathetic on every level. I think there is some talent on this team for sure, but get the coaching staff and front office out of here ASAP and bring someone in who can WIN!

    • BIKI024

      i want it now Now NOW!

      again, mr. expert GM, how exactly would you go about rebuilding a roster that only had 6 homegrown players when you inherit it??? a roster riddled with several journeymen who are no longer in the league, and mainly a roster without a legit NFL QB??? how exactly do you go from 6 homegrown guys to 30 in less than 3 offseasons? (i keep saying that because I heard Nick Cesario (from Cleveland) NE’s GM say it over and over one time in a presser last summer.) we’re in our first year with having 30+ homegrown guys.

      unfortunately the previously regimes, particularly Butch and Savage did a number on this roster by terrible drafting for the most part. just look at any playoff caliber team, most of the leaders on the team were drafted from 02-07. There should be 3 or 4 more Joe Thomas and D’Qwell guys on our team.

      and in the process of the rebuild, the only thing that can really help mask the holes in the roster is QB play. unfortunately in offseason 1 and offseason 2, there really wasn’t much we could do to improve the QB situation. there weren’t any great free agent QBs, nor anyone in the draft that we had any legit chance of getting, other than RG3 this year. We’ll see how Weeden plays as the season goes along, he’s a rookie afterall and plenty of superstar QBs in the league have had extremely mediocre rookie seasons, but the dude looks like he can play, and he should improve with experience (and more consistent receiver play).

      yes 0-4 is terrible, but we’re just a few plays away in each game and we’re leaving a lot of plays out there, most likely due to our youth. hopefully as the season goes along we start hitting on them more efficiently and we start winning some games. add another good draft to the team and our roster should finally be back in good shape from 1 to 53.

      • TWMBrad

        Dawson precedes your 02 – 07 range, but he is one of “those guys.” 50, 51, 52!
        Wish they could mean something (other than covering the spread).

  • Bryan

    Unreal. The Secretary of the Saint Mangini Club is now arguing – in effect – that wins are all that matter. Close games against good teams on the road, clear progress by key draft picks. Nope. Those things don’t matter. Its all about W-L’s. This type of black and white thinking reminds me of someone I don’t like….. Mike Holmgren. That’s right.

    Can we all agree to stop talking about Shurmur? He is so irrelevant at this point. There is no way he stays on as the long run coach here. What matters is the players, and figuring out how much talent the next coach will have.

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    Shurmur: Please do the honorable thing for yourself, this city and this team and commit PROFESSIONAL seppuku. The more I think about how this whole franchise has become the LaMonte gravy train the angrier I get.

    We seriously need to do some digging into what kind of ties Owen Marecic has to Mike Holmgren or Bob LaMonte.

    • humboldt

      In defense of Marecic – and this is a first for me – he had a decent seal block on Richardson’s TD. Otherwise he regressed to his sub-mediocrity mean

      • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

        Agreed – I found myself focusing on him more often than not after the ball was snapped and the rest of the time the guy looked like a high schooler out there.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      Can we make Shurmers Seppuku a pay for view event(granted I am talking about a real and not proffesional suicide,like he could pull off anything professionally)???

  • Ess Eh

    I am loving this “pretty big jump” the Browns have taken this year!

    • nj0

      Well, this is their third first year.

      • TWMBrad

        First year to the third power.

  • wiseoldredbeard

    Battle, battle, battle, battle. Is Shurmur a robot? Look at the signs: Limited vocabulary. No emotions. By the way, can anyone actually tell me what “flashing” means?

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      It’s a good way to get put on a sex offender registry.

      Heyo!

    • Beeej

      We show the other team tricks we can do with our private parts. You know the squirrel on a trampoline, the brains, the wristwatch, the boating accident…etc.

      • wiseoldredbeard

        Is this what resulted in Mack’s blood/ass issue?

        • Beeej

          For an explanation of that I suggest you read, “Are You There God, It’s Me Margaret?,” by Judy Blume.

    • bupalos

      It means you did something so obviously well that even a lobotimized ape like Shurmur notices.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      I have a definition that refers to the finished Chuck TV show..or one that refers to dirty old men in rain coats,which would you prefer?

      • wiseoldredbeard

        Both.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Okay you asked for it. On Chuck flashing refered to him seeing somthing that kickstarted the computer program(the intersect) in his head, he would “flash” on a person or information and know all about them/it..in later seasons he could also flash and get skills via the second generation of the program..and it was refered to as flashing.

          The other definition tends to be when someone,usually,but not restricted to,a dirty old man in a rain or trenchcoat. This person would wear only that coat and shoes but nothing else and would run around and show folks that was all he was wearing by openning said coat and then going away,targets tended to be schoolchildren,old ladies,and random women.

          Damn..I feel kind of dirty for putting the second definition up.

          • TWMBrad

            I miss Chuck. Can they put the intersect in Shurmer?

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            why he’d still fuck it up…you know like drafting a RB he doesn’t give the ball too.

          • wiseoldredbeard

            Thank you.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            you’re welcome,though I still don’t know what flashes Shurmer is talking about.

    • Believelander

      I honestly believe Pat Shurmur might be a cat. It makes sense. However this could be a disturbing trend, possibly a precursor to invasion.

    • 910Derp

      ASK PAT.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    I particularly like when members of the media offer us shit sandwiches like this:

    https://twitter.com/LullOnSports/status/251537966760067073

    Also, would someone kindly ask a member of the front office why the Browns traded up to draft Richardson if he will only get 14 carries and sit 3rd downs in favor of Chris Ogbonnlolpracticesquad?

    • Ess Eh

      I was making this point earlier around the office. All we could come up with was that Trent doesn’t have his pass protection in order.

      • Believelander

        Hopefully someone can get the All-22, I want to see which linebacker Richardson is standing up out of their cleats on the play when Weeden threw it away by throwing it into his butt. (the ones where the ‘real’ announcers called a max protect pass a screen).

        Obviously since Richardson is twice Ogbonnaya’s size and strength, you want Oggie Boggie in there blocking 6’6″ 250 pounders on third down. #shurmurball

        • bupalos

          TRich whiffed a cut attempt on one of those, otherwise I don’t remember him really missing much.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            On the one screen that worked he destroyed a rushing line man and caught the ball,plus gained a first down.

    • Kamov

      You throw the pass until they prove they can stop the run. This is what Pat Shurmur has learned from Andy Reid.

  • rulesboy

    Other than your assumptions about how a veteran team might respond after an emotional game (although wouldn’t this be more likely from a less disciplined, younger team?), you provide zero evidence that the Ravens “listed” into this game or were otherwise sleepwalking.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Wrong. Read: “[A] litany of drive-breaking penalties, special teams breakdowns [including a missed FG and a missed XP], and a lazy Joe Flacco interception in the Browns’ end zone.”

      And experience does tell me that the assumption on how teams respond to big emotional wins is a good one, veteran or otherwise. There’s also the fact that the Browns are of course the Browns, though I do understand why folks might want to make assumptions, even good ones, out of bounds here.

      • bupalos

        >>>and a lazy Joe Flacco interception in the Browns’ end zone.”

        Bonkers. That was a great scheme, Flacco wasn’t “lazy” at all, he got duped. And special teams was a wash for them after they killed the head and let the body follow and got the gifted turnover.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          LOL yeah I heard the NFL’s own shills say that on TV last night, then I watched the play again. If Flacco got duped there I wonder what he thinks about Santa Claus. We’ll Xs and Os it this week.

          And re: special teams, the point is that missed FGs, extra points, and allowing long kick returns is strong evidence of a team that’s “listing.”

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            I kind of think that was all Robertson,and not a scheme…if he wasn’t there that would have been a touchdown..obvious when you notice Patterson didn’t know Robertson was there and tried but failed to make the interception.

          • wiseoldredbeard

            He was EVERYWHERE last night. That dude should be playing 75% of the downs.

          • bupalos

            >>>I kind of think that was all Robertson,and not a scheme…if he wasn’t there that would have been a touchdown>>>

            The way I’m remembering it that’s wrong on both counts. I think Patterson stayed deeper than the receiver like he knew there was help underneath, and I think his coverage was good enough to at least break it up even if Robertson hadn’t gotten there.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            bupalos I would reply to you directly but for some reason can’t…Patterson tried and failed to even touch that pass,he was in front of the reciever not behind him..look at it again if it’s possible without paying money to do so,Robertson was behind Patterson and in front of the reciever,and Patterson was 5-7 yards upfield of the reciever he was supposed to be covering.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

            If that’s the definition the Browns have been ‘listing’ for quite a while.

            Whereas all this time I thought they were just bad.

            Perhaps the Ravens have some special teams problems, the kind the Browns have, as opposed to ‘listing’.

            I didn’t see any lack of emotional fire in the Ravens; I saw a Browns team that for parts of the game played them close to even (of course in the other parts of the game the Browns looked like a Division III team out there, so it evened out).

        • Believelander

          For what it’s worth, you’re right, that was a good schematic interception. They pulled Robertson up from waaaay low. Disguise disguise disguise.

          The one thing I want to see Jauron do better is disguise his blitz/man/zone; his defense’s tells are really obvious. More coaching, and of course more experience for the cadre of youngsters.

      • rulesboy

        I don’t know much about x’s and o’s, but I give more credit to the defender than blame Flacco’s laziness. And if the holding call on Oher was “phantom,” it wasn’t his fault and therefore not a result of laziness. As for any other drive-breaking penalty, I saw no evidence of laziness as a major contributing factor.

        Missed field goal: he almost did the same thing against the Patriots last week.

        Missed extra point: mistakes happen. If that was a result of laziness, I admit I’m wrong on this point, although I don’t believe the holder was simply to “lazy” to clasp his hands around the ball any more than Little was too lazy to do the same.

        “The Browns are of course the Browns”: undisputed.

  • NeedsFoodBadly

    The headline says it all. All kidding aside, seeing people get pumped after last night’s loss was more than a little surreal. I guess we as a fanbase have to look for the good where we can find it, but the Browns lost another game. 9 straight losses to the Flacco-led Ravens.

    As Biki would say, it is what is. And what it is is another loss to a divisional rival. We can talk about progress and battling and close losses all we want, but in the end, results are what matters. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Until we can compete convincingly (and by compete, I mean… actually win a few games rather than just the mere avoidance of total embarrassment) in our division, we’ll never have a good football team. I’m never happy after a loss to the Ravens or the Steelers.

    Wake me up from this nightmare when we win a game.

    • wiseoldredbeard

      Completely agree. How has there not been a pool taken on what week Shurmur gets fired? It’s gotta happen before the end of the season, right? I bet dimes to dollars that at this very momemt JHIII is sitting around on some sort of extra stuffed leather chair talking to Gruden.

      • Hopwin

        No Gruden. no Gruden, no Gruden, no Gruden…

        Insufficient, I am going home and sacraficing a chicken to the football gods in hopes that they do not saddle us with that affliction.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          I’ll kill one too. We might need to do some mammals for this one, though.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            What kind of mammel would you prefer? Mine is a Pat Shurmer.

        • nj0

          Believe me, JoBu will like this. He’s gotta be getting tired of raw chicken.

        • NeedsFoodBadly

          Sign me up for another chicken. Gruden is such an ass.

      • bupalos

        In the cinci game Fracky McFrackinpus said NO significant changes during the year. Don’t know if he meant it, but it looks to me like AskPat is going to get at least the same run as He did.

        • wiseoldredbeard

          To be clear, I did not say that I want Gruden to be our coach, but I can see it like a bad dream in our future. I’m not sure a mammal will be enough — you may need a biped.

          If they haven’t won a game by week 9, when they go into the bye (and JHIII owns them), Droopy is toast.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Like.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            “I’m not sure a mammal will be enough — you may need a biped.” … It was only a matter of time.

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          fracky mcfrackinpus. lol like.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

        Not Gruden please.

        But I figure Pat is gone at the bye week. Logical time to do it; move up Dick or Brad as interim.

    • BIKI024

      nightmare? you can’t snap your fingers and fix a roster. it takes time and luck. haden and taylor out certainly don’t help us on defense but they played tough last night, you gotta tip your cap to Bolden and Torrey, they made some real tough catches, game of inches.

      and we finally look like we have an offense that with some more continuity should be able to put up 25 points a game. Weeden is obviously a work in progress, but that 95 yard drive was pretty impressive. let’s hope that he can do that more consistently after a few more games under his belt.

      • wiseoldredbeard

        Is your wall paper smiley faces? Do you fart pixy dust? I want what you have… (which I’ve always assumed must high quality drugs)

        • Beeej

          Biki has access to the good stuff out in NYC. The rest of us are forced to root through the dumpsters outside the PD for bath salt resin and Mad Dog 20/20.

          • BIKI024

            in 30 minutes or less no less

        • BIKI024

          the roster needed to be completely rebuilt. unfortunately there is growing pains when you do a complete gut job, but it seems like we have drafted some building blocks that set us up nicely for the future. we shall see how it plays out for Weeden and which direction with go with regards to coaching soon enough.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

          Biki is correct about the 95 yard drive, that was NFL-grade.

          Now then, the Browns need to do that 3 or 4 times a game, and do it when it matters. They started on/inside their own 20 how many times? And drove the length of the field once, once, that means one, one time, once, for a TD.

          Have to get better than that.

        • acto

          worb,
          We have already established the quality of the Biki Lettuce and I am certain that Biki is damn proud of his procurement talents and the skills of his supplier.
          If I get to NYC in the near future I am going to find him and beg to share some Biki Lettuce.

    • BigDigg

      It’s all in the expectations i guess. In the back of my mind i know that it was mostly smoke and mirrors given how pumped up (down?) the Ravens must have been. That said, watchable football is watchable football.

      Interesting dynamic here – I found it strangely more entertaining to watch the Browns muddle through a loss last night than to watch OSU half-ass it to a win last week against UAB. Of the two fanbases, I’m guessing Cleveland fans had an overall more positive experience last night.

  • Bryan

    I am curious to know when Wins and Losses became the central way that this blog evaluates a team? I thought evidence of clear progress was more important. Is that not right? The whole theme of this post is “nothing matters because we lost.” Do you actually believe that? Do you not see clear progress at QB, RB, Offensive and Defensive lines? Maybe you don’t, but it seems relevant.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      Progress from Game 1 was inevitable because there was nowhere to go but up.

      Frowns has long espoused the wisdom of not making perfect the enemy of good. But the Browns haven’t been good under Shurmur’s reign.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      “The whole theme of this post is ‘nothing matters because we lost.’”

      Wrong. The theme of this post is that last night’s loss does not show that this team is making progress as a whole, and the fact that assholes are doing backflips over this loss to the Ravens is actually solid proof to the contrary.

      In 2010 when the Patriots and Saints came in to games like the Ravens did last night, we blew them out of the building with Baby Chips McCoy and Chansi Motherhumping Stuckey on the 1s and 2s, with the likes of John St. Clair, Scott Kooistra and Billy Yates holding down the right side of the o-line. After those games, nobody came in soft against the Browns. That was progress. That was a real NFL coach.

      Seriously, smarten up or piss off. Two dumpster fires in five days has my fuse especially short today.

      • Bryan

        I agree with you that our coaching is inferior and a complete downgrade over Mangini. I also agree that the current team compared to Mangini’s team is farther from being good. No argument.

        However, relative to where we were last year, it is clear that we have upgraded our talent and upgraded our performance. That is my point. I don’t understand why we are supposed to ignore clear progress simply because we are still worse than where we were with Mangini. We can’t bring Mangini back right now.

        When the season started, I was hesitant to do root for progress because of my overall bitterness towards Holmgren/Shurmur. In the bigger scheme of things, it seemed more important to me that the team fail so that Holmgren/Shurmur were ousted. But, with Jimmy Haslem riding into town, those two clowns are going to be gone. They are essentially irrelevant to the future of the franchise. Weeden, T-Rich, Little, Schwartz, Gordon, Benjamin are not. They are the future. It is a GOOD thing when those guys show flashes. And acknowledging it doesn’t mean you are happy with Shumur or Holmgren. It just means you want the team to have good players because, you know, having good players is the main thing fans should root for.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Weeden is not the future…interception wise he is worse than Anderson was,he was a loser as a pitcher professionaly and will be the same as a QB. He shows it every week when he talks to the press,in this case once a loser always a loser.

          • Believelander

            LOL, tell us more about the quarterback with 4 games.

          • BIKI024

            how are you so convinced? do you not agree that despite some of his dogshit decisions he’s made, he’s made many more good than bad that were legit NFL throws. he’s a rookie. there will be growing pains. but to think he has no chance for improvement is just not fair to the process, it takes time, but he’s shown enough to stick with him and give him a chance to develop.

          • Believelander

            No way. You’re full of crap. Colt McCoy flashes battle moxie command leader poise zomg zomg zomg Colt McCoy bromance zomg.

          • Believelander

            Fact: Brandon Weeden has more 300 yard passing games than Colt McCoy. Fact.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            I was speaking about Andersons career 2007 campaign,also all the 300+ passing games in the world don’t matter if we don’t win. I don’t see Weedon as a leader nor do I see him as a winner…I am not alone in this asesment. I could and do give less than a shit how many yards a QB gets give me a win and no pick sixes,granted Colt has had some too,but this again goes back to abandoning the running game for both QB’s, I think Shurmer is a worse problem than Weedon,and Weedon would have been best served by sitting at least a year,but he is 28 so that can’t happen. Hell he was picked in baseball by the Yankees, pretty much a gold standard team and wilted under that pressure,and after one year he was traded,in fact he was traded every year he played baseball..so to me he is not someone I would expect great thing from,or wins.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            There’s also that Weeden is about 10 years older than that rookie D.A., but who really cares?

          • Believelander

            Gotcha Warburton, you were speaking of the only year in Derek Anderson’s 7 year career where he wasn’t a raging dumpster fire. It makes sense to compare that campaign to Weeden’s first four games pro and draw conclusions.

            And Frowns, who cares if he’s 6 years older than D.A. was? A rookie’s a rookie. Derek Anderson’s in his 7th season and his career is toast. If Weeden’s actually good, he could easily be good for 7 or more years. Honestly if we get 5 years of really good quarterback play out of him, do the playoffs thing, etc, and some other years of competent starter-twilight-career-ism, I’ll say that was a highly successful use of a 22nd overall pick.

            First though we have to get a coach who uses his talents instead of whatever it is that guy does.

          • Bryan

            Worse than Anderson? I don’t get what you are watching.

            Since his first start, he has 3 turnovers in 3 games, and 2 of those were clearly desperation turnovers late in the Buffalo game. His pick last night is the only turnover in the last 3 games I put solely on him. It was terrible.

            This all comes after a historically bad Game 1 (where he had 4 picks) and a pre-season where he fumbled on every play. For him (as a rookie) to then have only 1 terrible turnover in 3 games against teams that might all be in the playoffs is impressive. It demonstrates that he learns quickly. His accuracy, reads, presence in the pocket and patience have all gotten better each game. He has also moved the ball with the game on the line. For a guy who has played only 4 games and has obvious physical tools, this is GOOD.

            I am not saying he is 100% the solution, but he is the only QB I have seen in awhile who has both physical tools and a demonstrable ability to learn from his mental mistakes. How do you not see that?

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            bad decisoins and play calling probably

          • Beeej

            I really think Weeden would be more successful with an offensive tailored to resemble what he ran in college, but that would require…you know the rest.

          • acto

            Really Warb?
            How did Steve Young look in his first 4 games?
            Peyton Manning?

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            at least Young had a good coach eventually as did Manning,unfourtunately Weedon does not..and may have to retire by the time we get a good coach.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jim.gilbert.589 Jim Gilbert

            We can only hope Weeden has the success players like Peyton Manning and Aikman had. Both were horrific their rookie years. In 89′, Aikman was on the NFL’s worst team at 1-15. You have to agree the both turned out OK. Not many rookie QB’s come in the league, light it up, and go to the playoffs. First round QB’s almost always get drafted by BAD teams. Give the kid a chance to proove himself!!! It wouldn’t hurt if he had a little talent at receiver to help him either. There’s not one receiver on this team who will ever be confused for a perennial pro-bowler or a starter on any of the better teams in the league.

            As Browns’ fans I think we’ve become addicted to change and calling for the next guy in line before giving the current one his opportunity to shine. My point? It takes a little more than 4 games to determine a player’s worth. Especially at a position as volatile as QB.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Like I said in the post, I agree we have some good players. Though I’m not sure at all that the starting quarterback is in that category, and the coaching is making it really hard to tell how good he and any of these pieces really are.

          • Shadow_play

            “the coaching is making it really hard to tell how good he and any of these pieces really are” I think that is something everyone can agree on.

          • wiseoldredbeard

            Including Droopy.

          • Believelander

            You know, if we had drafted RG3, I don’t know if his stats would look much different from Brandon Weeden’s in this system. More rush yards, less picks. Better, but I think Shurmurball would be well on its way to grinding RG3 to dust by now.

            You have to be able to see that Weeden has the arm, is getting comfortable in the pocket, and is making the reads, and is mostly delivering the ball where it needs to be. Except when he isn’t. But he’s a rookie. He doesn’t have very far to go to be well worth the draft selection we spent on him.

            Agreed, the coaching is making it really hard to tell how good he and any of these pieces really are. But I feel that for what it’s worth, Dick Jauron is doing a fine job with the mess he’s been given.

          • Chris P.

            The improvement in this team is as follows…

            INSTEAD OF BEING THE WORST TEAM IN FOOTBALL BY A LOT, WE’RE THE WORST TEAM IN FOOTBALL BY A LITTLE!!!!

            It reminds me of an old saturday night live sketch in 92, when I was a 14 year old ass instead of a 34 year old one. It was the democratic debates, and phil hartman as clinton said a line i’ll never forget…

            “and under my leadership, arkansas raised up to number 48 in prevention of rickets. look out mississippi! we’re gunning for you!”

            or something of that sort. the exact words aren’t important.

            I made up some fun stuff because I thought the line was too high last night for a Thursday night game. But in reality the anti browns betting makes picking the Browns a nicer proposition.

            But seriously… let’s make no mistakes about it, this team blows an entire line of chimpanzees.

            And this starts from the top. Look, there’s NOTHING I FUCKING WANT MORE than to be wrong about this crap. But I’m not. The entire fucking progress made by this team is that we went to a bad team on the upswing under mangini, to starting over… because ostensibly, mangini’s coaching was the problem.. so.. we assume he had talent for.. say 6 or 7 wins and didn’t get there.

            fine, i disagree, but who gives a shit, we’re giving holmgren the benefit of the doubt here.

            so, he brings in hand picked coach who thought touchdowns who could really make us better, and he was so good that we regressed.

            BUT WE STILL HADN’T REGRESSED TO THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE!

            Indy and Jacksonville and St. Louis were clearly overall worse than us without their studmuffin quarterbacks.

            Yet somehow, we make a bunch of moves, go into the next year, and within two weeks, we’re not only considered to be the worst team in the league, we’re considered to be the worst by far.

            And now I”m supposed to take fucking solace because we’re not the worst team by far, only by a smidgen?

            yes i see talent in weeden and richardson and whoever, and yes, i see things nuanced, and i know that shit happens, and there’s circumstances that cause problems, and there’s a host of things that can effect the final score and even final product that are largely out of management and talent evaluators and coaches hands.

            but sweet jesus on the cross with the nails and the thorns, after you take all thatinto account the sum total of our progress is that we’ve improved to the worst team in football by a little. and that line is so damning ina summation of progress that it stands solidly on it’s own as a repudiation of all this regime has implemented.

            oh, while i’m thinking about it

            sparty spartan -3
            ole miss +31.5 (THIS TIME FOR SURE)
            akron +6
            toledo pickem
            bengals -2.5

            i’ll copy to cheddar thread.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Absolutely well stated.

          • nj0

            “And now I”m supposed to take fucking solace because we’re not the worst team by far, only by a smidgen?”

            Well said.

          • acto

            Nice C P,
            “INSTEAD OF BEING THE WORST TEAM IN FOOTBALL BY A LOT, WE’RE THE WORST TEAM IN FOOTBALL BY A LITTLE!!!”
            And the O. Henry “Bad Pun of the Week Award ”
            Goes to Chris P!

            I did however, enjoy it anyway

      • bupalos

        I’m fine with the idea that we aren’t putting a stamp on anything or do cartwheels until we actually win something.
        But it does start to look like absent total sabotoge and lack of growth by AskPat, we’re getting to a better place: the far-and-away youngest team in the NFL has a pretty solid talent foundation and is indeed starting to be more of a tough out than a rolling wreck. It’s more like relief than celebration.

      • Believelander

        The team is making progress as a whole. 12 months ago we would have lost this game in torture-with-rusty-meathooks fashion. We surrendered 0 touchdown passes while in the huddle and called 0 runs up the gut with 10 seconds in the 2nd quarter and no timeouts. Progress!

        Also, I think of every Browns loss as 1 progression step towards a new president and head coach. Ahhhhh.

      • acto

        I am certainly with you on this, I am not the only one who also agrees that Shurmur is not ready to be an NFL coach.
        What does confuse me and I would like your opinion on this Frownie, is why everyone seems to be in love with Heckert?

        Terrific, Trent Richardson is a beast, but I think there were far better choices available with the 4TH pick.

        Ward is a still unrealized reach.
        Mottawa Hardesty was an injured reach too.
        I like Weeden, but there were two, younger QB’s still available that I like a lot better. (Wilson, 12th pick 3rd round and Cousins 7th pick in the 4th round.)

        What do you think Frownie? I am not ready to buy in on the current crew’s drafting prowess either.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          3rd pick…for TR,but considering we don’t really use him..I kind of agree with the rest of your post.

          • acto

            Warb,
            The Browns had the 4th pick, they panicked and traded up one place to get Richardson.
            My point is that they could have stayed with the 4th pick and had their choice from ten players who were better selections than Richardson that were still available.
            Mo Claiborne for example.
            The Browns need a shut down corner more than they need a running back.

            Running Backs come and go like reality TV stars.
            Do you remember that guy that was on some video game box cover?
            He played for the Browns then he added the Madden Curse to the Wahoo Curse.
            What happened to that guy?

  • bupalos

    You’re getting soft frowner.

    Prediction: “The Ravens are the new second worst team in the league…”
    Actual: “If the Ravens list into a game like that against any other team in the league, they get blasted out of the stadium.”

    CHECK. Although I guess I should have realized you might have qualified that they were only the second worst team in the league LAST NIGHT, since they clearly are ordinarily one of the top 3. I’m still giving myself an extra phantom Cheddar point.

    And while I laud you for trying to teach the pony a second trick, complaining about the refs in that one is nonsense. I think Bleeland conclusively established that they handed the Ravens 45 yards and an extra possession (ending in one of their 2 offensive touchdowns) on the blown helmet-off-dead-ball with Cribbs. I think that was just a tad bigger and more objective than an admittedly marginal-minus holding call. That was not nearly as minus, btw, as the one on Thomas last week.

  • bupalos

    >>> “Anybody can gut a roster and replace it with rookies and first-year players.”>>>

    Sure, anyone can do that, but the reality is that Heckert is doing it very well, certainly better than the ‘new browns’ ever have. Hardesty was a wasted 2, Marecic is garbage (but only a 4) but outside that he’s pretty clean and it’s looking like there are some potential homeruns here. Billy Winn in the 6th looks like it could be one of the steals of the entire draft, TBen in the 4th might not be that far behind. Little’s a very good pick, Sheard is a very good pick, a couple of these nobody linebackers even look like they can play.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Before I get too excited, I’m going to wait for this collection of potential home runs to stop getting manhandled on both sides of the ball by teams like the Bills, or to at least win one game against a legitimate team, even if only when it has everything going for it.

      • Jim

        Giving credit where credit is due, the Bills’ defensive line is really, really good.

        • bupalos

          And Ngata is practically a defensive line all by himself. I seriously do not understand how that freak exists, he really should be the league MVP.

          • wiseoldredbeard

            I feel for that poor schlub who he ran over playing rugby in highschool — they show that highlight ten times a year on national TV. I mean, would you want to try to tackle him?

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    the most significant news last night for the browns future was washington beating stanford. in this way, the correct harbaugh protege is more likely to be hired as shurmur’s replacement.

    taggart/wku >> shaw/stanford. (sorry jeff rich.)

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/353RMCG4SCQSGHPMKN7TMON654 S. A

      I’d be more excited about a Pioli/Caldwell team coming to town

      • Believelander

        NTY. Can we please keep Tom Heckert or replace him with someone who is going to continue to draft the same kind of talent scheme? Also, is Jim Caldwell an NFL coach? Is he good? Or is he just smart enough to get out of Peyton Manning’s way? I guess he at least runs a 4-3 and he’s familiar with a real version of the West Coast (the kind used in this millennium) so that wouldn’t be too terrible.

        Everyone talks like Tom Heckert is a dead man walking. The thing is, Joe Banner, the most likely assumed acquisition of Haslam to be President, hired Tom Heckert before Mike Holmgren hired Tom Heckert. Maybe Banner didn’t trust Heckert fully to be his draftnik when Andy Reid was mainly calling the shots there, or maybe he just had a lot of faith in Heckert’s talent evaluation but didn’t want him to ruffle Reid’s feathers. Either way, he had faith in Heckert to be a general manager before, and other than a mediocre 2010 draft, I feel that Heckert has drafted well and drafted deep in 2011 and 2012.

        Plus, the best way to make changes without ‘blowing it up’ again – read: setting ourselves back again – is to let the architect of what we have continue to oversee the plan, and to find a construction foreman who can build upon the grade school concepts being imparted upon the workers by the old foreman hired by his uncle’s buddy. Instead of teaching them a whole new style and system.

        That’s what I’m hoping for, anyway. Let’s rebuild up instead of rebuilding down to rebuild up.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Heckerts had as many misses as hits when drafting for us,he may be the best we have had since comming back but that doesn’t say a lot. So for him I don’t know if he should be retained or let go but considering he didn’t meet/refused to meet with the incoming manegment team means he is probably gone, see,he and his old Eagles boss don’t get along…at least thats what I saw earlier this year.

    • Believelander

      I was thinking hard on who we need to be looking at for a replacement and it got me thinking. I think we should really keep Jim Kanicki’s favorite guy in the Browns administration:

      Tom Heckert.

      As for who replaces Shurmur, who knows? If it’s not a proven NFL coach it’s all speculation.

  • acto

    “Ravens tackle Michael Oher had to be forcibly restrained from dismembering one of them for making a phantom holding call on a 23-yard Ray Rice run”
    Michael Oher should have looked around, that official was probably on his blind side.

    • wiseoldredbeard

      This made me laugh, and for some reason that made me feel shame.

      • acto

        I am just happy that somebody “got it”.
        Thank you worb,

  • Ess Eh

    Can somebody explain, maybe Rod, why in the hell there are not 8 guys standing on the goal line on 3rd and goal from the farken 20 yard line? How in the hell do you have a hole between layers for Flacco to throw that first touchdown? Drink!!!!

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      I still am…drinking that is.

    • Believelander

      Jauronball?

  • BIKI024

    btw, who’s rejoicing exactly? of course i can enjoy losses more after winning money on them, but i really haven’t heard or seen anyone “rejoicing”. but not gonna lie, definitely felt good to CA$H IN ON DA CLOWN$! REJOICE!

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      Biki, you are the worst.

      • BIKI024

        yeah but, who’s rejoicing??

      • Believelander

        It’s double easy when you’re actually a Jets fan.

  • acto

    Who the hell is this Pete Beatty guy?
    He does not fully understand the Browns and the Browns’ culture.
    “The three-plus hours that a standard game lasts is 50 percent advertising, 25 percent weirdly protracted replay reviews, 20 percent Phil Simms ritually murdering the idea of communication, and 5 percent football.”

    It is only 40 % advertising and we all need that to tell us what to buy.
    It may be 25% replays, but we all need that too, because we were getting another beer when the play actually took place..
    “20% Phil Simms” I will agree with that number, but we should all forget Phill Simms and think of who he replaced, Joe Pisarcik and the real play known as “The Fumble”. (That should make all Browns’ fans happier. Mack who?)
    Their is also at least 20% football in this mix.
    Then we must add in 10% shots of screaming fans with painted faces and no shame to finish off this equation.
    I like to call it “Biki math”.

    They give it 115% in the NFL.

  • Believelander

    1) The Oher holding call was not phantom. It was holding. You could argue it was ‘ticky tack’ but he had a fistful of cloth on a guy with his arm out wide (read: not inside the frame of his body) at full extension and prevented that player from tackling Ray Rice by doing so. Holding.
    2) Pat Shurmur sucks. We get it.
    2a) I would argue that Pat Shurmur sucks so bad that he really cost us the game by taking a 2nd and 21 on a legitimate intentional grounding and turning it into a 2nd and 36 when we had to really have a touchdown.
    3) There’s a lot to be positive about going forward. The previous statement does not necessarily reflect the views of this blog or its purveyor(s).
    4) The Ravens may not have been panicking, but aside from the period of time between their pick-6 and the time Phil Dawson kicked his next field goal, there was no point in the contest when the Ravens had a commanding lead.
    5) You can’t be happy about a loss, it’s stupid to be happy about a loss, but it’s also dumb to write a Tony Grossi-esque tsunami of negativity in the endless campaign of negativity against the current Browns regime. It’s why this is no longer a go-to site for me for analysis of anything. Sorry you’re mad in the wake of a loss (me too) but we got lots to look forward to going forward, starting with the fact that Holmgren is already done. Woot.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      The 9-0 lead felt pretty damned commanding to me.

      • Believelander

        That’s because you need to come float some Aderalls with me and Joe-Hizzle. 9-0 isn’t a commanding lead in the NFL.

        Honestly, I’m less concerned with the atrocity that is Pat Shurmur – the atrocity is over soon – and more concerned with the refs making the wrong call when Cribbs nearly got killed.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          a 9-0 lead is commanding vs the Browns

      • BIKI024

        Browns were down 7 points or less for 40 out of 60 minutes.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

          And not once in those 40 minutes did I think they were going to take the lead.

          Sorry. I like a number of the players, and the talent is better than last year. Maybe if Jauron and Childress hog-tied Shurmer and left him without his wallet on Pearl Road in Parma they could then work on improving this team. But I don’t see Shurmer bringing along a large group of rookie and 2nd year players to the point of being a commanding team.

          I keep thinking how Mangini would run this team (okay, lose Dabol). That alternative fantasy version of the Browns would have a steady diet of T-Rich running outside the tackles, led by a beast FB (not Marecic). Weeden would throw but would be more controlled. Little would learn to catch the ball or spend Thursday afternoons humping a 90 pound bolder up and down the practice field. And I can imagine what Ryan would do with the defense, and Sealy would fix the special teams.

          I know, I know, can’t happen, won’t happen, but I think a Mangini Browns 2012 would be a team that would be a tough out. Instead we have Shurmer-ball and a game where the Ravens could be as listless as Frownie imagines them to be.

          • BIKI024

            keep dreamin

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            I think the Childress Jauron hogtieing Shurmmer would make a great film..unfourtunately we won’t get lucky enough for this to actually happen.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jim.gilbert.589 Jim Gilbert

            Yeah, Mangini is a Hall of Fame Head Coach…..er, wait the Jets didn’t think much of him either and there doesn’t appear to be a line of other teams waiting outside his door. I like Mangini over Shurmur but if you think he is or was the mesiah for Cleveland football you’ve got another thing coming.

      • Cranky M

        Then i don’t know what game you were watching. Such a commanding lead that they had 4 shots to tie at the end, and were one bad INT and one Little dropped pass away from a tie game? So commanding!

    • nj0

      Agree on #1. Ticky-tacky and behind the play, but still holding.

      Agree on #2a. What does a coach have to do to draw that flag? Must have been serious. We get a TD there, we’re kicking a FG for OT instead of having Weeden chuck out that back of the endzone.

      • Believelander

        I’ll be honest, when Weeden Golden-Armed that pass 10 yards over any human being in the end zone, I was so frustrated that I just started laughing.

    • Cranky M

      I brought up the same point about the holding penalty, and Frownie deleted my entire post.
      Apparently if you diagree with him and/or call him out for his pointless twisting of facts to always favor the opposition over the Browns (examples: the Browns are lucky Suggs was gone but no mention of Cleveland missing no. 1 WR and CB, discrediting anything the team does by saying the other team was just being “lazy,” pretending the Browns were helped by a phantom holding call when it was an obvious hold, Weeden isn’t good because Greg Little actually had to make an adjustment on that should-have-been TD throw, etc etc etc) he just deletes you entirely.
      Classy.

  • Believelander

    Phil Dawson Stat of the Day 9/28/12: Phil Dawson holds the record for the most 50+ yard field goals in a half with 3.

    • nj0

      Isn’t this technically your second PDSotD of the day? Or was the other one a PDFotD?

      • Believelander

        Good catch. Fixed. It’s the same second Phil Dawson Fact of the Day I posted previously. The first one I posted was still technically Thursday as it was before midnight, so this is Friday’s. Which is too bad really because I have all sorts of good stuff just waiting to roll off my fingertips. Oh well, 4 hours and 5 minutes left to wait.

        • nj0

          It’s always a new day somewhere, with a waiting soil filled with good peoples deserving to hear about the good works of Phil.

  • Believelander

    Bull and Fox crushing Shurmur in their opening monologue without saying it (just going over the litany of atrocious coaching).

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

    Can we please stop mentioning that this was the Ravens 4th game in 17 days? It was the Browns’ 4th game in 18 days. I doubt that the one missing day of prep really accounted for much.

    • Believelander

      It accounts for a lot when you’re only telling one side of the story.

    • Sneeda

      Right, doesn’t any team playing on Thursday night have 4 games in 18 days…why was that ever brought up?!

      • Believelander

        NO, not if the game they played 3 weeks ago was ALSO a Thursday night game!!!!!!! Then they played 4 games in 22 days like every other NFL team.

    • wiseoldredbeard

      Plus, considering two days with Shurmur is definitely < one day with Harbaugh, isn't it a wash?

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Four games in 18 days is easier than four games in 17 days. We’re talking about professionals at the highest level. I don’t know how else to explain it to you.

      • Believelander

        I do: you’re wrong. The fact that the Ravens had to wait until opening Monday to roll over the Bengals instead of Sunday had no bearing on last night’s game.

        Now, the Ravens having to let it all hang out against the Patriots while the Browns took a leave day against the Bills? That helped us for sure.

  • Cranky M

    You’re seriously becoming borderline unreadable these days. “Phantom holding call?” That was clearly holding. He got beat, reached around from behind, and dragged the dude down. How is that a “phantom” holding call?

    It’s one thing to be realistic and hold the organization accountable. It’s quite another to constantly come up with a litany of excuses about why the other team let the Browns hang around, rather than admitting that they are more competitive than you expected them to be.

    What about the fact that the Browns were missing their number one receiver and number one CB? Surely if the Ravens were missing those positions, you would use it as yet another excuse to write off why the Browns were able to stay close the entire game. But when the Browns are missing them, you instead make excuses about Ravens penalties’ “lazy” passes, and “phantom” calls. Get real.

    (And yes, i realize being competitive doesn’t actually count for much. But as pessimistic as i was before the season, even i can tell they aren’t far away from being decent. You’re constant derision is growing very tiresome.)

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

      Grossi is like a breath of fresh air compared to Frownie these days. They’ve switched places.

    • Believelander

      Yup, kinda pretty much.

    • bupalos

      It was holding. It could have been let go. But it was consistent, that one was very similar to the call on Joe in the 1st quarter, which brought back a 16 yarder for ManBeast. Don’t remember Joe having a hissy. Oher had a pretty bad game overall.

  • Believelander

    There is only one active coach in the NFL with a longer than 3 game losing streak. The guy in second place with a 3-game losing streak, we’re not sure what his name is other than “Interim-Interim-Backup-Interim-Coach for the Saints”. Pat Shurmur is at 10.

    • CleveLandThatILove

      Yikes.

    • TWMBrad

      On a twistedly postive note, supply and demand should be in Browns favor with their being (probably) the only team in the market for a new coach at the end of the year after last year’s purge of all those beaten by the Browns. Looks like Ken Whisenhunt and Norv Turner are off the bubble for now. Maybe Leslie Frazier, Mike Munchack and/or Mike Shannahan, but seems like (for now) that all three keep their jobs.

  • nj0

    Random point of complaint about the announcers last night – they constantly pointed out that the reason the that game was close was because “this is AFC North football!”

    This is beyond ridiculous for a number of reasons:

    #1.) As any Cleveland Browns fan will attest, AFC North football for the Browns v.2.0 has been 20-61 football (around there). In short, we’ve been completely dominated.

    #2.) Beyond that, the Ravens and Steelers have owned the division for well over a decade, regularly crushing the hapless Bengals as well.

    #3.) The suggestion that all (or even a majority of) AFC North teams play wicked hard defense with physical play has not been true for a long time.

    #4.) It is the laziest analysis I can think of. Rather than find an empirical explanation for the score (you know, REAL analysis), lets just refer to some ethereal mystique (which, even if you believe in ethereal mystique,clearly doesn’t exist).

    Nothing about last nights game resembled AFC North football as I know it.

    If last nights game was REAL AFC North football, the Ravens would have forced five turnovers, concussed four or five Browns, and been up by 24… all by half-time. THAT is AFC North football: the Ravens or Steelers dominating the Browns or Bengals.

  • nj0

    I’m excited that the 5-11 team that was always a hard out was torn down and now has progressed to the point of being a hard out again. That was two years well spent.

    Maybe next year we will can be a tough out AND win five games again.

    • BIKI024

      2010 Roster was old bro, let’s look at how many key rotation guys, particularly on defense who are no longer that effective or retired:

      DE: Kenyon Coleman (backup for Dallas)
      DT: Shaun Rogers (IR)
      DE: Robaire Smith (retired)
      LB: Barton (retired)
      LB: Bowens (retired)
      LB: Matt Roth (free agent)
      S: Elam (backup in KC)

      QB: Delhomme (retired), Seneca (unemployed), Chips (career backup)
      RB: Hillis (shell of his 2010 self)
      FB: Vickers – fan favorite, but is on 3rd team in 3 years
      WR: Robiskie (unemployed)
      OT: Pashos (injured)
      OT: Womack (retired)
      OT: St. Clair (retired)

      the roster obviously needed to be retooled and as long as Weeden pans out, another draft should fill in a stud at either LB or S and we should be playing with a full deck.

      • nj0

        So we tore it all down rather than replace guys as needed so as to get younger while trying to improve our record at the same time.

        Younger does not mean better.

        • BIKI024

          so how did you expect to replace them? via FA? all 15 of them?? no team has any sort of sustained success by building rosters via FA, you have to do with via the draft. yes, there are certainly growing pains with complete rebuilds, and it’s pretty hard to find many teams who had to do as big of a roster rejuvination than the Clowns, but I think you’ll see the fruits of the labor in the coming years, particularly if Weeden pans out.

          • nj0

            Yeah, sure… fine, I expected them to go out and get 15 FAs. Clearly that’s what I was advocating.

            You act like they are mutually exclusive options – build through the draft OR sign veterans. A good front office does both every season. My issue is tearing something down that had already begun to make strides to a.) win games, b.) play tough football, and c.) get younger.

          • Ohiakotan

            Honest question–How had the 2010 Browns made strides to get younger?

          • nj0

            By 2010, H&H were here. If you want to look at what Mangini did in ’09, it was turn over the roster by adding solid veteran contributor while also starting a youth movement by trading Winslow/Edwards for picks and moving down in the draft for another 2nd rounder.

          • BIKI024

            “a good front office” is rarely in the situation the Browns were in in 2010, with the ghosts of tragic previous drafts nowhere in sight.

            “tear down” what exactly? most of the guys who were key contributors in 2010 are no longer playing in the league!?!?!?! and the young guys who were on the team in 2010 are still here (except for Eric Wright). so i’m not really sure what your dream GM would do differently. it’s not like they missed out on any FA signings who went on to be huge contributors, especially at the WR position. and by all accounts they have done pretty well in the 3 drafts they’ve done, particularly these past 2..

          • nj0

            You are right in that tear down is not the right way to put it.

            I’m simply saying that I believe that we could have known much more success and created some organizational momentum by taking a more balanced approach with signing more FAs. I think if they would have done that, they could have won more games, and wouldn’t be in fear for their jobs.

          • nj0

            I also question how well they done. I keep hearing how well Heckert has drafted, but this team still can’t win like the ’09 team of cast off supposedly shitty Jets players.

            We’ll see how it plays out. I just don’t understand the faith considering we still can’t win.

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        really trolling on vickers arent you?

        “third team in 3 years.”
        1. browns: idiots. ie, is marecic better or worse than vickers? (the debate should end here because this is all that matters.) hillis 1100 yds.
        2. texans: salary cap issues. foster, 1200 yds (in 13 games).
        3. cowboys: vickers is starting FB on a winning team. murray on pace for 1200 yards.

        you can keep implying that the 1200 yd seasons of vickers’ lead back are coincidences. but you cant deny that the browns are vastly poorer for this silly, shortsighted, needless personnel decision.

        its not a question of whether i like vickers (i do) — it’s a simple matter of a team tens of millions below the salary cap releasing a proven fullback in favor of a pet draft pick. hell biki, if you dont like vickers, then how do you defend releasing tyler clutts last year who went on to start for the bears (and ironically was traded to houston this year).

        that’s not one but TWO starting FBs on WINNING teams were cast aside in favor of owen marecic.

        it’s an example of a GM having to be the smartest guy in the room. sorry. it still pisses me off.

        • BIKI024

          salary cap issues for a guy who makes $1.5m?!?! if he was so vital to the run game then I’m sure they would’ve made an effort to shell out a fraction of what they pay Foster. and it doesn’t seem like they miss him much in Houston.

          As far as Murray’s “pace for 1200 yards”, again, he has played like low grade dog food the past 2 weeks, under 2.5 yards per carry. his first game was big with 130, with 50 of it coming on 1 carry in which Vickers wasn’t in the play.

          the fact of the matter is, Shurmur and Chilly only use FB on 14% of the plays, which is actually on the low end of the totem pole for WCO teams (OAK uses FB on 65%, GB uses Kuhn on 61%)

  • rodofdisaster

    My .02…for what it’s worth.

    There were SOME things to be positive about last night. I don’t know if you could quantify them as “a lot” or “a little”. It’s probably a moot point given the fact that it buys you nothing next week. Things I noticed:

    1) Greg Little is Braylon Edwards. He’s simply awful when you need him the most. Yes, he’ll make a 37 yard reception falling down while blanketed with one arm pinned and a bug in his eye but he can’t catch the 8 yard slant on 3rd and 6. There’s just no reasonable excuse for the number of times and the ways this guy fails. How about a little less time spent on TD dances and a little more time spent with the JUGGS machine?

    2) Brandon Weeden is ok. He lets go of some ridiculously inaccurate (and sometimes comical) passes so he may never be one of these high percentage guys but he can push the ball to the edges so it’s a tradeoff. I really am a bit tired of NFL Radio telling me he “grew up before our eyes” last night as he “gained more confidence as the game wore on”. How about the truth? He came out flat and couldn’t move the team at least in part due to the fact that his coach is handcuffing him like he handcuffed McCoy last year. No audibling. The pick six was on Weeden and perhaps moreso on Shurmur as everyone the stadium saw Benjamin’s split and knew it was the quick out. Weeden started getting some cooperation from receivers and they rolled him out a bit to escape pressure allowing him to throw down the field.

    3) Trent Richardson is a beast. Remind anyone of Marshawn Lynch? I don’t know if he’s “#3 overall” good but if they can block for him, he will do well.

    4) Dear Pat Shurmur, it’s hard enough to compete with the opponent committing penalties on the field. We don’t need you collecting 15 yarders too. PS- feel free to use a zone run and not bring in Owen “Body Temperature” Marecic. Feel free to use route combinations that actually cross up defenders or stretch them as opposed to just squiggly lines on the chalkboard. After gashing them with Trent Richardson out of the backfield, how about you get him more touches into space?

    5) The two rookie DTs are going to be pretty darned good. I know I was lukewarm about Rucker and Parker as free agents but they’re playing better than I thought they would. Holding Ray Rice to under 3 yards per carry was huge.

    6) Sheldon Brown needs to be a safety. Patterson had his best game of the year. Aside from the one play on the goal line, did TJ Ward actually do anything last night? Not a fan of Usama Young either.

    7) Baltimore’s defense looked slow and old. Yes, they got hits on Weeden but you can throw on these guys more than you used to. They are blitzing less than they used to. Baltimore was really feeling that quick turnaround.

    8) Dear NFL Network, please feel free to supply your announcers with rosters so they might actually talk about a Browns second teamer who made a play. Also, if you can fit it into your busy schedules, please find Michael Irvin a better news source in the pregame than Greg Little. Greg needs to concentrate on catching, not talking. As njo pointed out, your pithy little observations about the AFC North prove you haven’t been watching the AFC North lately.

    9) OL- As much as people have been banging on this unit, they only gave up one sack on Weeden and I don’t think that Pinkston, Lauvao or Schwartz had any penalties. Not enough push in the run game but might do better with a zone scheme.

    It’s not all doom and gloom but to suggest that the Browns are anything other than an 0-4 team possibly headed to 0-5 is just being sucked in to the illusion.

    • bupalos

      >>>How about the truth? He came out flat and couldn’t move the team at least in part due to the fact that his coach is handcuffing him like he handcuffed McCoy last year.>>>

      In his defense, he did get peppered with pretty big drops in that first half. But I’m down with “OK.” Biggest encouraging sign for me was he stood in and took some shots and still concentrated on the play he was trying to make.

      • rodofdisaster

        Bup-

        For the record, I don’t think Weeden is the problem with this offense, much less this team. He’s shown me enough to believe he deserves to be in there and hopefully, he’ll grow. The problem is (as you’ve mentioned) the inability of WR’s to catch the ball and the coach’s lack of creativity/predictability. Even Bill Walsh would be bored with this offense.

        A few years back, Seneca Wallace (the locker room cancer) lamented that Brian Daboll’s offense lacked identity and that there wasn’t a “go-to” play or scheme that defined it. One might argue that not having that might actually work in your favor making you less predictable…but in this case I wonder if that might not be true.

        There isn’t one particular type of play that the Browns’ offense runs consistently well or often. When they need yards be it short or long yardage…what’s their chosen method? Running four 10 yard stick routes is not going to confuse or intimidate an NFL defense, yet I’ve seen Shurmur call it before. Give us some slants…a smash concept….ANYTHING that resembles ingenuity.

        • acto

          “From the mouths of babes”
          I do not profess to know anything Rod’o and Biki may be able to back me up on this being as he is in NYC, so he has most certainly been to Radio City Music Hall, but I believe that Shurmur has installed a Rockettes Offense.
          It is very flashy, but it stays in one place, it goes 1,2,3, Kick, 1,2,3, Kick, 1,2,3, Kick.

    • acto

      “6) Sheldon Brown needs to be a safety. Patterson had his best game of the year. Aside from the one play on the goal line, did TJ Ward actually do anything last night? Not a fan of Usama Young either.”

      Rod’o,
      Who would you would you have replace Brown?
      I agree that I would like to see him at Safety, but in my very unlearned opinion, it is much more difficult to find a competent Corner than a Safety.
      Sheldon Brown may have lost a step, but he is usually doing the correct thing.
      I am completely on your side on this one, I think that they should move Brown to Safety and put Mo Claiborne at Corner. (Trent who?)
      TJ Ward was a bit of a reach in the draft and while I love his attempts to play “smashmouth” football, he looks to me like a linebacker trapped in a Safety’s body.
      Please tell us Rod’o, how would you set up the Browns’ D-Backfield?

      • rodofdisaster

        CB Haden and (see below), S Brown and Ward.

        As for who plays CB, I think that Patterson and Skrine are similar players. I would love to see what Trevin Wade can do but it seems he’s less relevant every week.

        Then again, what the hell do I know?

        • Believelander

          With the present landscape of NFL play-calling, that gives you a pretty balanced depth chart:

          CB:
          Starter – Haden
          Starter – Patterson
          Nickel – Skrine
          Dime – Wade

          FS:
          Starter – Brown
          Quarter/Reserve – Young or Gipson or Hagg

          SS:
          Starter – Ward
          Reserve/Quarter/Jumbo – Young? Did Young stop sucking hard at tackling? We don’t have anyone else listed as a SS. Young isn’t even a SS. We need a reserve strong safety.

          OK it’s still not perfect but it’s better than trotting out Eric Hagg or Usama Young to start at free safety. Tashaun Gipson is also really inexperienced. I feel like with a competent zone defender playing over the top, stuff like Anquain Boldin’s torrent of second half catches in 1 on 1 coverage would be more easily diagnosed, bracketed, and eliminated.

          • acto

            Haden was unavailable.
            That was what I was getting at, a sensible alignment without Haden.

            Believe, you should understand about alignments.
            Funny story but perhaps not Frowns appropriate. My tire guy is from Parma and he played DE in college, ran in to him at the bar in my neighborhood a few minutes before the game yesterday. Bought him a beer; then we were repeatedly interrupted by loud Ravens fans behind us saying inappropriate things…..

        • acto

          “Then again, what the hell do I know?”
          Are you kidding me?
          I hope that you can understand how much we appreciate you sharing your vast knowledge and being “one of us.”
          We love you Rod’o!

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          I totally disagree with your Patterson comment..otherwise I agree wholeheartedly..excluding Weedon.

    • Believelander

      I’m with what Bupa said, he hit Greg Little with a nice 15-20ish yard strike down the sideline on second down, which Little naturally dropped putting us in a third and long.

  • bupalos

    Another datapoint on the refs and safety– first quick out included a non-called late hit on Weeden. 2 1/2 steps after he released, and clearly intended just to put the hit on, not a football play.

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      the hue and cry if replacement refs had blown this call … well we know what it would be.

      i dont know if it’s incompetence, laziness, or conspiracy but somehow the above non-fumble is paper over like so today: In the first game back for NFL referees a day after their lockout ended, there were no officiating blunders.

      • Believelander

        The same lie that’s been purported since the beginning of the NFL.

        I will say this on the above play: because a player is no longer the ‘runner’ after fumbling, what happened was they ruled it wasn’t dead because the helmet wasn’t off before he fumbled. The interpretation they chose of this gray area was obviously the wrong one – Cribbs was in an infinitely more dangerous situation than a runner in the open field losing his helmet. But an argument can be made for it being the right call, which is the inane nattering you will hear if you explain to people in clear, reasoned tones that it was not the right call.

        • bupalos

          I don’t get it. He still has the ball and the hats off. How is he not the runner?

          • Believelander

            The argument is that he lost the ball and his hat at the same time. This creates a ‘grey area’ as well as interchangability of the spelling of the word gray, and if it was a gray area at all, the refs made the wrong call. If there’s a gray area in any rule in life, you should judge your interpretation of the rule to best conserve the spirit of what the rule is trying to accomplish. The helmet-off-dead-ball rule was instated to prevent people from getting hurt. By not blowing that play dead, and then subsequently awarding the ball to the Ravens by not declaring the play dead on review, the refs made an arguably legitimate ruling but one that is 100% the opposite of what the rule they were judging was trying to accomplish.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/PKDAN27KKLVMMNKU2CFTIDFXAY Deputy Glitters

            The real issue shouldn’t be whether the helmet came off before or after he fumbled the ball. Here it’s irrelevant. We can all agree that the helmet came off before the ball was recovered. If the play is indeed ‘dead’ the moment the helmet comes off, then evidence of a clear recovery should be an impossibility and the ball should go back to the team that possessed it last.

          • Believelander

            @Glitters: correct, this should also be the precedent set for the sake of player safety. NFL hypocrisy at its best.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        I just don’t get why a player targetting someones head,on whatever play and whomever is the player is not at least penalisied for it,then there was the cleat to the face,since players can be hit with a penalty wether or not the action is intended how was this not a penalty????

  • bupalos

    shown here rather.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      yup he still had the ball at that point.

  • ClevelandFrowns

    Special message for those battered Browns fans who are feeling especially down about today’s post. http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2012/07/official-policy-on-commenting-and-free-speech/

    Thx.

    • Believelander

      A forum where one person with a biased opinion (as all people have) determines whether or not any given response in the forum to that person’s viewpoints and opinions, which the forum was created to discuss (amongst other things) is not a forum at all.

    • Beeej

      Big thumbs up to Tina Takos for her quote on that link.

  • bupalos

    Whooo wow… On the last play of the game check out a wide open richardson barreling towards the endzone at about the 12 with max 2 potential tacklers.

    Ah well. Watched the whole deal again. There are rookies all over the field, missing our best player, hosed on a turnover, mix in a pick 6… and that game really was dead even. Weeden is such a mixed bag, but a mixed bag is a big step up for us. A mixed bag 4 games in is very encouraging. The drops were worse than I thought on first blush, we have to get a free agent in here next year.

    And this d-line is simply going to be one of the league’s best. Hughes had a great game. Sheard, Winn, of course Aytuba.

    • acto

      I appreciate your rampant masochism.
      Oogie Boogie is a better pass catcher than Trich and just about anyone else on the team.
      I saw the game a little differently, but then again I only saw it once and it took lots of ethanol to see me through.
      The Browns played The Grackles when the stinking birds were having a really bad day and they still managed to lose.
      Do you remember the first game Bupa?
      You must, you watched it 87 times.
      The Browns played the overrated Eagles with the worst QB in the NFL and they still managed to find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

      The next time you watch the game put down the purple Kool-Aid and be objective.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        Bupa is still more objective than Biki…hmm.

    • acto

      Bupa, I am sorry if I am being too harsh, you know I still love you.
      However when I read your comments I am starting to have the same song playing in my head that is always ringing loudly through Biki’s comments:
      The Judy’s “Guyana Punch”

    • Believelander

      Most rookie quarterbacks if forced to start will be mixed bags. Some guys who get to sit for 1-2 seasons prior to starting are still mixed bags. The big question, to which the Browns have not been able to answer Yes! since 1999, is whether he will be able to eliminate the inconsistencies in his game and always play at a high level. Weeden’s high level looks pretty good though. But I’m not going to say anything aside from a talented-looking guy until he proves he has the skills to go with that talent.

      And you’re right, Mixed Bag o’ Weeden (lol) is better most of the time than Chips McCoy. I would have put Chips in the 4th quarter of the Philly game – Weeden was obviously a bit topsy-turvy at that point. Other than that, willing to ride it out with this guy.

      Agree on Hughes. He needs to bring the consistency, but if he does, the interior rotation of Taylor/Rubin/Hughes/Winn could be very nice going forward. Sheard obviously has the skills to pay the bills, needs to really get it going this season (got a sack last night). If we can draft/sign a true monster pass rusher on the other side, our D-front would have teams shitting bricks.

  • Believelander

    As a man who readily admits he has little interest in NCAA football beyond the Buckeyes, I would like to ask some of you Saturday football aficionados to tell me, if the 2013 Draft was tomorrow, who you think would be the #1 prospect in the country at any position. Thoughts appreciated here.

    • acto

      Believe,
      Hate to admit it, but Connor Shaw will be way up there.

      • acto

        Barkley is overrated.
        Logan Thomas is also overrated.
        I like Barkevious Mingo, not just because of his name. I would like to see him in a Browns uniform next year.
        I like Eric Reid too.
        Dee Miliner would be a good pick as well.
        I like Jackson Jeffcoat but he may be a late 1st round guy.

      • Believelander

        Aren’t the Gamecocks the team that lost a few years back because a ref tackled their quarterback on a bootleg?

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      watch jarvis jones, linebacker, georgia tomorrow.

      im thinking he’s coming to us.

      • Believelander

        I know you’re a proponent of the 4-3. For a 4-3 system, then, you’re looking for an OLB who can play cornerback vs a tight end or slot guy, sit into a zone or spy, and blitz both inside and outside like a pass rushing DE. And of course, close to the play and tackle, tackle, tackle. Tall order. I’ll see if I can take a look at him tomorrow.

  • The voice of reason…

    14 rushes for Trent Richardson and 50 some odd passes? I thought we were a west coast team, that sounds like a Mike Gundy shoot ‘em-up-style offense to me… Make way for the Cleveland Cowboys!

  • Warburton MacKinnon

    Someone on ‘Waiting for next Year’ questioned my name,and asked me if it was my real name…wow.

    • acto

      Warb,
      You need subtitles for the uninitiated.
      I have no clue.
      Well…. as usual.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    anyone else unimpressed by SB-Nation’s new format? i thought their old format was best on the web. but they decided to break what was working for some cmoing standard and that is less good than the current.

    i like apple but i smell their heavy-handedness behind all the HTML5 migrations. i admit to not knowing all the goodness of html5, i only claim to observe that the websites built on it are less good.

    html5 /less good than/ whateever-preceded-it,-adobe-flash?

    the apple fight for ‘open standards’ is quite obviously laugh-able given their litigious recent history. oh well, the best product doesnt always win.

    • Some Guy

      Yep, it’s going to take some getting used to.

      I’d bet Apple’s role is indirect, aside from killing Flash sites. The previous version of SB Nation needed a completely separate mobile site, while this new one looks like it’s just a different style sheet for mobile and tablet devices. Sports On Earth, the AV Club’s new video game site, Evening Edition all have the same single-UI feel.

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        *sigh* youre 100% right. gotta take care of the new devices. :-/ compromises.

        • Some Guy

          or laziness.

    • acto

      Crazy stuff jk,
      It is the all pervasive Apple Ego the screws them up.
      In the 80′s I was selling Compaq, PC platform against Apple and I won almost every major deal; even though they were way better.
      I did not lie, or mince words.
      “We have a more compatible operating system, how would that affect you on a day to day basis?”
      That was my only selling point, but Apple screwed themselves up by having engineers as sales guys, going in with all their ego to “show up and throw up” facts.
      Business sense beats ego and open ended questions will always beat a flashy “I, I, I, it is all about me” presentation.

      Apple is like the, well…. there is no suitable metaphor, or simile.
      There is an all pervasive ego about that bunch that loses in the long run.
      And, those stupid shirts, bags, billboards, banners, et cetera that said “Apple, think different.”, those things really bugged me.
      Go back to 3rd grade and learn about adverbs you morons!

  • BIKI024

    CHEDDAR BAY:

    Bills + 4, rollin with the homedog division rival. Might even ML them for shizzles and grizzles. Pats lose 3 in a row for the first time in 11 years.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      So if you’re calling out people for excuses, what’s your excuse for the vaunted Bills D-line giving up 100+ yards to two separate backs, averaging over 6 yards per rush to the Pats, when the Browns got 33 yards rushing, with two and a half yards per gain, average – at home.

      • BIKI024

        yeah i guess i don’t come from the school of thought that NFL teams produce the same results week in and week out. every week is different, different scheme, different gameplan, etc. i’d have to believe that Tom Brady guy the Pats have puts the DLine in pass rush mode. but it still doesn’t excuse them for not making plays. I said it before, if you’re investing $95m GUARANSHEED you better get some big time production from them, and they came up short tonight.

    • acto

      Wow Biki, I only saw the 4th quarter, but it looked like the Bill’s D-line played so well the were able to leave 15 minutes early.
      I am a defense guy so the 4th quarter was painful to watch even though I did not have any “skin in the game”.
      Are you certain about those “3 playoff teams”?

      • BIKI024

        they definitely didn’t earn their money today that’s for sure. i never said they were going to make it for certain, i’d still put them at 4-1.. AFC is top heavy this year, the last few spots are up for grabs.

  • BIKI024

    slide #8 in Heckert’s PP presentation to Haslam on his Greatest Hits:

    “Did not cave in and resign Hillis to a long-term extension” Hillis is inactive for his 4th game, with 21 rushes in 3 games and 1 costly goal line fumble. Can you imagine if we gave him a 4 year $25m with $12 upfront that a lot of fans were pining for??!?!?!?

    • Believelander

      You mean with the more than $12 million in salary cap space we could have easily used to pay his 2011 salary and the entire contract guarantee, leaving him at about 3 million per year in non-guaranteed cap space for 2012, 2013, and 2014? Meh. Nothing says he gets injured here. Also if he doesn’t pan out it’s just Randy Lerner’s money on the wasted guaranteed.

      So while I wouldn’t necessarily use bouncing a fan favorite out of town as a selling point for myself, it’s probably the choice I would have made.

      • Alexb

        no Hillis wanted too much, even though i would love to still have him here running with Trent. Those two would be the best backfield in the game for years to come. If we then maybe added a halfway respectable FB to lead for them it might go down as the best backfield in history. With the way those two run neither of em can carry the ball the entire season. In about 4 games we’re gonna start seeing obgonnaya again cause Trent is gonna get dinged up.

  • Believelander

    Phil Dawson Fact of the Day, 9/30/2012: Phil Dawson averaged 9 yards per carry for his career and has a 108.3 career passer rating.

  • Believelander

    4:50 PM EST: ‘Real’ referees miss offensive pass interference call on Marques Colston for blatantly shoving his coverage to the ground before catching a touchdown. Honeymoon for ‘real’ refs is over at Lambeau 11:27 of game time after the ‘play that will live in infamy’ 6 days ago. Because the real refs suck, but unlike the replacements, they have no excuse for sucking.

    At least they didn’t miss those holding calls on both extra point attempts so far.

  • Beeej

    Was anyone else relieved to come into work on a Monday knowing that the Browns didn’t lose yesterday?

    • bupalos

      I knew I felt a little off-kilter today and couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I did manage to lose pretty bad on Cheddar, so that’s like methadone I guess, but the bloodstream misses the genuine article.

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