Get some long johns, Jimmy: Retractable roof on Browns Stadium a bad step in the wrong direction

by Cleveland Frowns on September 20, 2012

We should have seen it coming when these jerks started kicking people out of the Dawg Pound for standing, but still. Why is there even a conversation about putting a roof on Browns Stadium? Why would City Council bring it up? Why is Jimmy Haslam even entertaining the idea?

As terrible as the Browns have been for the last decade, it’s understandably funny to think about fanciful visions of the Science Center’s wind turbine whipping forebodingly in the bitter wind behind a Browns home game in January. But why have a football team in Cleveland at all if we’re going to give up on the idea entirely?

It’s still not that hard to understand what a home field advantage is, and there are still plenty of folks around who remember what such a thing was like here. Still plenty of folks who understand what it’s like when the elements become part of a football game, and what it’s like to have a football team that by conditioning and (even better) by disposition is better than the other team at coping and (even better) thriving in these elements. And even more folks who at least otherwise know that winter is a big part of what makes Cleveland what it is and what makes Browns games what they are. As sad as it is that the longest winning streak of the modern era is only four games long, it’s no coincidence that it happened in December and January, which was also the last time we beat the Steelers (it was five degrees out and the last place they wanted to be was Browns Stadium). It’s embarrassing (for all of us) that any of this needs to be pointed out.

We know you’re from the south, Jimmy, and that you must spend your fair share of time in tropical climates as well, but that’s what you get an owners box for. Whatever some rogue sociopath councilman tells you, these are Browns games, not Build-a-Bear workshops, and the rest of us know that anybody who doesn’t know how to layer up or otherwise keep warm is an idiot (or a Chargers fan or something) who shouldn’t be at the game anyway, or else someone who will learn a really important lesson fast.

This idea about getting more use out of the Stadium might sound nice in theory, but if the Browns could only start winning it would become the most useful building in Ohio no matter what else happened in it. And of course, the idea of attracting a Super Bowl to Cleveland is outrageous, not because we probably wouldn’t get a Super Bowl even with a roof, but because nothing could be more embarrassing and stupid than hosting a Super Bowl before the Browns even get to play in one (let alone win one). Any Clevelander with a shred of dignity would go to whatever place in China Australia that’s the farthest away from Cleveland as there is on earth if you tried to have a Super Bowl here before the Browns played in it. It would be a complete disaster. And either way, never hosting a Super Bowl is a small price to pay for real Cleveland football in a real Cleveland stadium. Please don’t ever make us talk about this roof thing again.


Alright, the Cheddar Bay open thread will have to wait until tomorrow so post Thursday action here, don’t forget tailgate party this Sunday in the Muni Lot (details at bottom of post here), and otherwise have a decent go of it in the meantime.

  • vespo09

    Brilliant. Football is great outdoors in cold weather. Think Ice Bowl, Frozen Tundra, Vinatieri’s field goal in the Tuck Rule game.

  • actovegin1armstrong

    I remember how the heavy snow flurries helped out the Browns for Red Right 88.
    Wait…. I guess that is not a good example.
    At least the cold had my lips numbed to the point that it slowed the stream of expletives emanating from my mouth.
    It was the first time I ever used profanity in front of one of my big sisters.

    The cold weather really saved the Browns during “The Drive”.
    Oh, wait…. That may be a bad example as well.

    • ClevelandFrowns


      The Curse of Wahoo bears obvious responsibility for each of those games, neither of which would have been remotely as close as they were if not for the weather. Which, admittedly, might have been less painful, but who would have wanted that?

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Do you remember way back in the good ol’ days when we used to get along?

        • ClevelandFrowns

          I think our relationship is blooming quite nicely, especially considering the growing inverse relationship between your talk about Cleveland trips and your actual trips to Cleveland.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Now I have you figured out Frownie,
            complaining about my lack of trips to Cleveland…. You are my seventh sister.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            I’ll take it.

    • Chris M

      Liked for this -> “At least the cold had my lips numbed to the point that it slowed the stream of expletives emanating from my mouth.

  • BIKI024

    once again the media is overblowing things and stirring the pot with all these headlines going bananas about the talk about “the roof.” a topic that was brought up by a City Councilman that took up 1.3 minutes of the 45 minute meeting. child please

    first of all, the City Councilman prefaced his question by by saying “once we see a winning team on the field”.

    secondly, the goal of the City Council is to generate revenue/jobs for the City, so of course they would be interested in learning if it would be possible to maximize the usage of the stadium so that it is a year-round facility, etc. i think Jimmy handled it well and he never made any mention specifically about a roof, but that they will look into what sort of improvements they can make to the stadium to improve the fan experience. i think we can all agree that Dan Gilbert did a wise thing by doing the same once he took over the Gund.

    thirdly, how cool would the stadium look with a Pilot lid!!?! (i believe WFNY did a mockup of it when the sale was announced)

    here’s the video excerpt of when roof the issue was brought up by a CITY COUNCILMAN:

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Right, everybody read the report that said the councilman brought it up. None of which begins to make it a subject for any kind of consideration at all, which is the point.

      • BIKI024

        so i guess Jimmy should’ve pre-approved every question and put the kibosh on any questions related to potential stadium improvements. good grief

        • actovegin1armstrong

          “like” for “kibosh”.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          A terrible idea is a terrible idea, and should be recognized as such one way or another. Enough with the excuse machine, Superfan.

          • BIKI024

            excuse machine? i appreciate you voicing your opinion on why you feel it’s a bad idea, but you’re making it seem like this is Jimmy’s idea and that he’s “entertaining” it. you should direct your vitriol at the Councilmen (who probably was bribed by a construction magnate to get him the bid if “the roof” is ever approved) WE’RE NOT DETROIT!

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Holy hell, where would I get the idea that Haslam is “entertaining” the idea other than the fact that he specifically said he would entertain the idea? Was calling the councilman who brought it up a rogue sociopath not clear enough for you?

            Seriously, you’ve officially used up all of your dummy points here today, with the only upside being that I’m now entitled to 3 cups of whiskey at lunch today.

          • BIKI024

            he said he’s entertaining ALL ideas and that he’s bringing in 3 of the top stadium architects, which again, i feel is a good thing. the stadium is now 13 years old and probably needs some improvements here and there.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Entertaining ALL ideas. Great. “Hitler: The guy had some things right.” “Pol Pot: Sort of got a bad rap.” “Ketchup: I’ll have some on my hot dog.”

          • nj0

            True, but if you ranked all the bad/destructive ideas Cleveland City Council Peeps blurt out during their half life-this one would probably be like 10 millionth on the list.

            I haven’t lived in Cleveland for years, but I still get angry thinking of Joe Cimperman’s hard on for neighborhood metered parking.

          • Brian

            i’m all for anything that results in modern meters with credit card capabilities – put them in my driveway – anything so i don’t have to worry about carrying change around

          • BIKI024

            Again, i didn’t think you were a fan of censureship.. how DARE the question be posed, how dare he!? A public official whose job is to create opportunities for his peoples, how dare he ask if the stadium could be a year round facility, HOW DARE HE!?

          • dubbythe1

            Let Clevelanders eat cake….

            A roof will do nothing to create any new revenue, or at least anything significant to offset the costs of building it which will either be ransomed over the heads of residents, or built into normal costs (tix/concessions).

            As you said the place is 13 years old, and in this day and age is a relic. soon Jimbo will be clamoring for upgrades (plumbing anyone?) and holding that over the residents heads.

            When would a roof be used? During football season, and then briefly after till spring, all of which is very limited but of course some asshat analys will project “potential” earnings across 12 months.

            this is of course only my opinion, but I have seen this type of stuff before, and drive by TWO stadiums (minor league) every day that were touted as revenue creators and now they sit mostly barren 90% of the time, yet still sucking tax dollars off the public to pay for their construction..

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Fascist pig.

          • BIKI024

            @dubbythe1 – never said i was pro-dome, etc, but if i were to purchase a business, i would definitely do my due dilligence on whether or not to improve the infrastructure, it’s just good business. And i certainly don’t see the harm in 80 seconds being spent on a 45 minute meeting by a City Councilman asking if the owner is open to possibility of a year-round venue.

          • BIKI024

            Oink oink my man, oink oink

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Cleveland is not a “year round facility”.

  • Shadow_play

    I get your point and agree with you that bad weather makes good football. My only qualms are with your picture and text examples to back up the advantages. You mention beating Pittsburgh and you show a pic of Bufffalo getting owned. These are both cold weather teams so our advantage wouldn’t or shouldn’t be as great vs. them.

    I get it, there’s not a lot of examples of Browns doing anything vs anybody in good or bad weather. But, that 4 game streak saw victories vs Jacksonville and Oakland. For victory over Jacksonville the Game weather was 16 °F (Snow Showers, −1 °F Wind Chill) (From Wikipedia) They probably don’t get that in Jacksonville.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      I don’t think Pittsburgh is close re: cold and wind, and I think we have Buffalo beat there as well (their stadium is quite a bit inland), but anyway, the elements should always be an advantage to the home team all else equal, and the Browns should always thrive in the snow.

      • Shadow_play

        I agree wholeheartedly. We should embrace being the toughest in the worst of conditions.

  • 910Derp

    Hey if we’re all under the same roof, do you think I can get one of Cleveland’s top chefs to whip me up something special too?

    • BIKI024

      put in Giovanni’s! congrats to them for being named one of the top restaurants in the US of A!

      • Jim

        I work above Giovanni’s and have never ate there despite all the accolades. Is it really worth it? The prices are ridiculous, especially compared to some of the other offerings in the area.

        • BIKI024

          yes, it really is worth it. the food is outstanding, but the scene alone is worth the price of admission. i only went once, but i was eagerly awaiting Artie Bucco to bring a bowl of mussels out to Tony Soprano.

          • p_forever

            if only you could be this smart about the irish, biki :)

        • p_forever

          i agree with biki – giovanni’s is amazing and 100% worth the price of admission.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Damn rich kids.
            I am still saving up for when Mc Rib comes back.

        • maxfnmloans

          I worked in the kitchen at Giovannis for 18 months. My father worked there for a few years in the 80’s. The wine list and the seafood are worth it for certain. The Dover Sole and Veal Milanese were my favorites.

          The Quagliata Family were always good to my family and I, so I am certainly biased. It’s pricey, but you can be sure it will be a first class experience.

  • Jim

    Playing outside, inside, it doesn’t matter until the product on the field improves, nor does it provide any sort of advantage for the Browns. Since the return in 1999, the Browns have played 57 home games in the winter months (November through January). They have gone 18-39 in those games. I believe that is a worse win percentage than their overall record since the return.

  • BIKI024


    ESSAY: NFL: CAR +1

    I’m definitely going against one of my cardinal rules on this one, so I’ll probably end up losing, but feel very strong about the potential to take advantage of a loophole in the Chedday Bay system and it’s Wednesday point spread cutoff. (Question to Exec Committee: Why is it on Weds instead of Thurs now? because of one measly MACtion game???) dissirregardless, the line in Cheddar is set at CAR +1, and after Hakeem Nicks was ruled out it is now NYG +2.5 and rising. that 3.5 point value proposition is too hard to turn down.. (but it is also a bit mushy as well, seems too good to be true)

    Not having Nicks is a big loss for the GMen, who also are dealing with the loss of their #1 back Ahmad Bradshaw. Although this is one area of weakness thus far in the season for the Panthers who are almost as bad against the run as the Clownies, the Panthers are treating this game as their Super Bowl and I think Ron Rivera gets them filling their gaps better and containing Big Blue’s rush attack. With Victor Cruz facing double and potential triple teams, and with Akron U alum Dominik Hixon out, this leaves Martellus Bennett as the next biggest threat for the Giants and while I loved the guy in Hard Knocks a few years back, I just don’t trust that he can delivery the goods. and poor Eli will probably get thrown around like a rag doll with the Panthers pealing back their ears and gunning for Eli, which might’ve happened even without the loss of OL anchor David Diehl as well as another starter in Will Beatty..

    And we haven’t even began to talk about the Giants defense who is allowing 29 points a game and also is dealing with some injuries. KillaCam, Chud, JStew, Deangelo, Steve Smith, Lafell, and Olsen take advantage and put up 30.. As much as i love rooting for the Giants, Eli would have to be uber Elite to overcome this one..

    This may be one of the few gifts this year from the Cheddar Bay executive committee people (of course other than providing us the greatness of Cheddar Bay). I highly suggest taking advantage of what is now a 3.5 point value over the current point spread (and rising).

    • jimkanicki

      ive always posted the spreads on wednesday, bik.

      • BIKI024

        agreed, the line was set for “NYC/public loving SB champ money”, but Nicks almost always plays even when injured, so I really think this was a miscalculation on their part, but it has been corrected with the line moving over 3.5 already, which is a rarity unless the starting QB goes out. already the money is looking to be about even and I’m sure by the time kickoff comes around it will be more on the Panthers, even with all the “NYC money”.

        again this is more about taking advantage of the Cheddar Bay cutoff and making a point about how I dislike the cutoff being so early in the week. I made it my essay play, so I’m putting my money (2.5 potential cheddar points) where my mouth is. if i lose, i will take it like a man and you guys can rip on me all you want. if i win, i will be gracious for this early cutoff. WIN-WIN for the Exec Committee

        • jimkanicki

          we hear you on the lines. (at this time) it’s just unwieldy to attempt to audit/validate scenarios where 50 people are using 5 different lines depending on when they enter their picks.

          even with a timestamped automated entry form, parsing current point spreads from live pages … that’s a bill-able development project.

          • FSOhioZJackson

            A number is a number. Especially in a contest and not in terms of a bunch of degenerates trying to steal every dime from a local degenerate criminal, it DOES NOT matter when the numbers are set. Hell, it does not even matter if the line is set at 8 on every single game.

            Keep up the good work, Kanicki.

          • BIKI024

            A number is a number. It is what it is. DERP

          • ClevelandFrowns

            “Hell, it does not even matter if the line is set at 8 on every single game.”

            Crazy Eights week on Cheddar Bay! This is something that’s going to happen.

          • munasrevenge

            Crazy Eights in week 8?

          • BIKI024

            I know mang, and again, appreciate all the time and effort you put into this.. but i came strong earlier so i’m gonna bring it again, particularly with this aberration of such a drastic line change.

          • vespo09

            I think the line change is more drastic than usual not because Nicks is out, but because Nicks, Bradshaw, Diehl and Hixon are out – all of which were announced today.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            I always appreciate your intelligence until you use this moronically obvious cliche, “It is what it is.”
            It is alright to be pseudo street, but please maintain some semblance of your commendable education.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        I was about to mention that Biki was cheating again.
        Not that he needs to, damn gambling degenerate….

    • ClevelandFrowns

      As much as you’ve convinced me that the Giants are the play tonight, the Executive Committee is giving you six of your dummy points back in recognition to your note to them at the end here. Congrats.

    • BIKI024

      Wow, i got a taste of my own medicine.. i slept with the fishes tonight.. oy vey

  • nj0

    I actually was for a dome pre-new Browns stadium, but doing it now would be moronic.

    Biki is right though, this much ado about nothing. I’m sure if somebody asked Haslam about the possibility of building a rocket to send Phil Dawson into space to kick moon field goals he’d shrug and say whatever they want to hear.

  • bupalos

    >>>these are Browns games, not Build-a-Bear workshops>>>


    Farthest point from Cleveland is about 600 miles off the southwest coast of Australia.

    Checking frequent flier miles now.

  • BIKI024

    also, as a favor to you guys, I’m going to post all my Cheddar plays a couple days early for your benefit, i highly suggest FADING me because no way I keep up this 13-3-1 pace.

    Kentucky +24 (@FL)
    EMich +33 (@MSU)
    CAL +16 (@USC)

    Browns +3

    ALL PLAY: (already posted) UM +5.5
    ESSAY: (see above) CAR +1

    • Petefranklin

      I guess i’m the only one who cant fade you.I Like the panthers too but when a NFL line moves 2.5 or more go with the other side, its a huge % play or at least it used to be, something like 80%

    • acto

      By the way Biki, you deserve a corucopia full of “atta boy’s” for kicking our respective asses at Cheddah.
      Credit where credit is due.

  • The Cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs


    I think if Jimmy is smart enough to recognize this team needs a reorganization at the top, he’s smart enough to realize what this team needs from its fan base. He is a football guy, and he’s not going to do something that alienates a blue-collar, working-class fan base.

    Three of the five top sporting events I have attended were games played in less than ideal weather. The Indians Snowed-Out Good Friday Opener, the Buffalo Snow Bowl and the eight-sack Steelers Thursday Night game were experiences that I will always remember and I don’t think Haslam wants to destroy those opportunities for future generations.

    I just think he wants to find ways to utilize the facility year round. You can host a variety of other sporting, artistic, and cultural events if you put a roof on something that big.

    Looking forward to the tailgate. Bringing chili and I’m only settling for first-place in this cookoff!

    • ClevelandFrowns

      As much as I’m sure they’d keep it closed all winter, enclosing the structure so that a roof can be put on it will make the weather much friendlier inside even when the roof is open.

      Also, it shouldn’t have to be pointed out that plenty of “football guys” have alienated the Browns fan base in profound and unthinkable ways.

      Nevertheless I am thrilled that you will make it to the tailgate and participate in the chili cookoff.

    • p_forever

      hey sorry i didn’t read this before i posted my comment, wherein i make the same point about you don’t have to put the roof on for browns games.

    • Beeej

      “I just think he wants to find ways to utilize the facility year round. You can host a variety of other sporting, artistic, and cultural events if you put a roof on something that big.”

      Do they do these things at the Q? If so, how often? Do we need 2 sports complexes with roofs to “host” events? Furry convention?

  • p_forever

    in the name of community organizing, i think you’re undervaluing all the good it would do the city to have a field that is more accessible to all of us, all the time. we paid for this thing. we should get to use it. of course lots of changes could be made now, even before you put a roof on the thing, to make the stadium more accessible to us. i’m talking about little things – open it up some weekends for pee wee football. let the girlscouts camp out there one weekend. have the players do a camp there – like mangini’s – but smaller in scale. etc etc.

    if the thing had a dome then community organizing could be going on in it all the time. it would mean the stadium would become a real part of the fabric of the cleveland community. it would mean lots of people that don’t get a chance to get in there during football season would be able to get in there. would be able to partake of the brownies in a really meaningful way. and i think that would matter. a lot.

    Look: the only part of the browns that cleveland legally owns is that building. and we paid dearly for it. as it stands we only get to use it 8 times a year. and the “we” that get to use it is the small, privileged pack of us that can afford to go to the games. Cleveland should use the only bargaining power it has here – ownership of the building. Let haslem put the retractable dome on the thing, but make the price for doing so be that he allow us – the real us, all of us – to use it.

    for the record: i was also pro retractable dome back in 1999, for all the above reasons.

    for the record: potentially hosting a super bowl is not one of the reasons i am pro retractable dome.

    for the record: I am pro home field advantages of all stripes, including freezing my a*s off to watch a football game whenever necessary. just because it has a retractable roof doesn’t mean you have to use it. which means: you can still have home field advantage of bitter cold if you want to. actually: that’d be great. don’t ever cover the stadium for browns football. cover it for the brownies, though (you know – the girl scout variety brownies).

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Yeah, like I said, nice idea, but putting the cart way before the horse. And there’s no way you could put a retractable roof on the structure without making the place a greenhouse. What keeps the Girl Scouts from camping there in the nice weather anyway?

      • p_forever

        It means they can camp all year long. Also I prefaced my comment by saying more of this should be happening even now. But clearly the roof makes scheduling a ton easier – no rain cancellations; 9 more months of usage.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          There are quite a few Domes in the NFL,almost all of those stadiums are still vacant when there is no football being played, the same goes for open air stadiums in the south. This is no longer the age of arena rock,the stadium will be just as empty as other stadiums with domes or that have good weather. One can say that their would be 9 more months of usage,but if it’s not used anyway,why waste the money putting a dome up?

          • BigDigg

            This is what I think as well. I checked out the Indy dome and Ford Field schedule of events. Indy seems to have a few events, but they most are smaller items that could easily be managed at other existing local venues. Ford Field had virtually nothing outside of the PapaJohns bowl and Monster truck event.

          • p_forever

            we can be better – a million times better – than all those places.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          You forgot to mention that a roof would make a perfect venue for the Justin Bieber Holiday Tour.
          Oh…. but wait, then the Girl Scouts would have to camp outside in line for tickets.

          Roofs? We don’t need no stinking roofs!

    • BigDigg

      Honest question – what real use would a city like Cleveland have for a 65000+ size indoor venue? What events are other similar cities using their domes for? I can see why it would be ‘cool’ for some of the smaller items you listed above, however those won’t likely recover the expense or add to the local economy. And frankly lack of a domed facility isn’t preventing these from happening now.

      I suppose a mega concert or two, though most major acts that draw that kind of attendance tour in the warmer seasons. As stated above a SuperBowl won’t be coming here. Conventions perhaps, though we’re not really a target destination and in fact already have good facilities overall.

      Definitely not calling you out (some good ideas there). I’m really curious to know how this could be practically used in a way that justifies the expense and sacrifices. My sense is that there’s a huge cost here to add on, and it will still largely sit dormant during winter months just as it does now.

      • Rbwhitney

        “What real use would we have for a 65000+ size indoor venue” . . . . with the added feature that there is almost no parking within a half mile of the place.

        Don’t worry. Haslem is new to this town. He thinks City Council are his friends.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Wouldn’t something as simple as putting in turf make it more usable – to allow for more of what’s intended, which is football? Start small and see where it goes.

    Comfort and football seem to only belong together for light-weights such as myself.

    • Rbwhitney

      Or me. Nothing better than taking your 80 y/o plus father to a Browns game which he has to miss because he is not a “true Browns fan”–who starts drinking at 5AM and insists on standing up during the entire game.

  • jimkanicki

    cheddars (will re-post this in the thread tomorrow)

    at buff -3.5 kent (essay, loss)
    at panthers +1.5 giants
    at georgia tech -14.5 miami
    at georgia -16 vandy
    lsu -20.5 at auburn
    steelers -5 at raiders
    allplay: mich +5.5 at irish

    • FSOhioZJackson

      My cheddars for the week

      All play: Mich (+5.5) at ND – Because in Denard Robinson’s 13th and last Mich-ND game, I see him leading a team kind of playing for its season, and that’s too many points IMO

      Carolina Panthers (+1) vs. NYG – I liked it before the line move because Cam Newton smiles pretty for the camera, leaps tall buildings in a single bound and faces a Giants secondary that’s absolutely dreadful.

      Syracuse (+1) at Minnesota – Because I’m not good at math or Cheddar Bay (check the standings), but my math says the teams Syracuse has played and what those teams have done is way better than what Minnesota has done. Plus, Minnesota’s QB is out. And Minnesota is Minnesota.

      Utah (+7) at Arizona State – Subject to change if BYU falls absolutely flat at Boise tonight, but I’ve seen Utah the last two weeks and Utah looks like a football team that can cover the touchdown here.

      Wake (-7) vs. Army – I know Wake just lost 450-0 to Florida State and Army just played a thriller with the ultimate MACtion team Northern Illinois, but if there’s one team out there that Wake can get beat by 10 on this day it’s Army. And, so, yeah.


      Akron (+35) at Tennessee — Because, dadgummit, if you’re going to give me the high-flyingest offense in Northeast Ohio AND five touchdowns against a team that got knocked back to reality last week by Florida and is playing for EVERYTHING next week against Georgia, I’m going to take it.

      A note to all, regardless of whether I’m right on this particular game or not: Akron is still really bad. Akron is far from the worst team in the country like it was the last two seasons.

      This is probably a beat down from the start and a really ugly one. I just see it as a 32-point game, or maybe a 34-point game, but dadgum Terry Bowden went to Texas and got a QB who was a backup at a I-AA last year and he’s flinging it for the Zips, who beat Morgan State 66-6 last week. Plus, Chuck Amato and Terrell Buckley are on the defensive staff and that counts for something. The Crips to cover, please.

      In a decade Akron will not be in the MAC. Why not the SEC? The bid starts Saturday night.

  • Peter

    NYG-1.5 OVER CAR
    USF -10.5 OVER BALL ST
    SF -7.5 OVER MINN
    The 49ers defense reminds of the Bucs defense of 2002. Speed and toughenss. Just plain nasty. Add an offense with Pro Bowl playmakers and a QB that is a caretaker, but certainly more of a play maker than Trent Dilfer, you have a Super Bowl team. Keep in mind, 2 botched punt return were the only thing that kept them from the big games last year. The Vikings’ defense hopes to be average by the end of the season. AD cannot beat thsi team alone. The game is in SF, they cover.

    NO -9 OVER KD

  • architectartvandelay

    Panther +1.5 over NYG – Biki made some valid points. I will also add that a shortened week of preparation makes this a tough spot for the Giants.

    UM +5.5 over ND – I do think Kelly is working his process and ND is heading in the right direction. Having said that the ND secondary is banged up and they have yet to stop Denard. A nod to FSOhioZJackson as this is a “prove it” bet.

  • dubbythe1

    >>these are Browns games, not Build-a-Bear workshops<<

    Well said.

    Does anyone have a price check on a pair of woolie long johns from a Flying J truck stop?

  • Tom_RedRight88

    I’m inclined to give Haslam a pass on this one for the moment; it would have been poor form in his first meeting with City Council to point out what a ridiculous idea a dome on the stadium is.

    You are overlooking the probability of getting a Super Bowl in Cleveland, however. Throw a roof on the stadium and we’re a lock because we have a casino downtown. That’s a lure that no one can resist, or at least that’s what the marketing people keep saying.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      sorry,but Cleveland will never host a Super Bowl no matter what we do. If the super bowl had existed during the 40’s and 50’s we would have hosted one or more,ya know when Cleveland was one of the 10 biggest cities in the nation and Ohio was one of the 10 biggest states in population. Unfourtunately that ship has sailed,there is absolutely no way short of paying cash money we would even be in the running to host.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        Ohio is one of the top ten most populous states. Seventh as of the latest count.

        • Jim

          Right. New Orleans isn’t exactly a burgeoning metropolis. Great city, but it’s population size (or lack thereof) has no bearing on whether it gets to host a Super Bowl or not.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          thought we dropped more,my mistake

      • Tom_RedRight88


        The solution to everything that allegedly ails NE Ohio.

  • dubbythe1


    can someone photoshop Beyonce into this?

  • wiseoldredbeard

    If’s official — Wiseoldredbeard will be in the house on Sunday! I’ll also be wearing shades, cause there ain’t no roof on CBS, and never will be.

    PS – I accept beers as tokens of appreciation for your ongoing enjoyment of my clever comments. I’ll be the tall red-head wearing a 80s era Browns starter jacket. If you see someone meeting that description who does not have a beer in his hands, it’s someone else.

    Personal prediction for the week – Browns 31, Bills 24

    • ClevelandFrowns

      YES! This means you’ll be at the tailgate as well?

      • wiseoldredbeard

        I am going to do my best (tailgating frownie-style is about the most a refugee can ask for when returning home). I’m going to the game with my sister, who just had a baby and may be resistant, but I hope to make it. If not for this game, I am heading back to town for the Skins game with a good buddy from DC and it’s likely we’ll start tailgating on Saturday night…


    Cheddar Picks- All early week I was set to take Carolina as my Essay pick and to be my #1 Supercontest pick then all hell breaks loose and bc Nicks is declared all of the sudden the public jumps ship off NYG and onto Carolina. Hate that shit. Luckily I locked in Carolina +2 on Tuesday in my personal account and still was able to take Carolina PK in the supercontest but I will not press my luck with this contest as well. As I learned in business school at the funny shaped building in Cleveland, diversification is key so I’ll avoid. The real value is under 50.5. But we can’t take totals so that’ll be another personal wager. Also, I took Kent St +3.5 personally and even posted it on twitter as a play but of course forgot to add it to the Cheddar post. That game fell right into my wheelhouse, bad public money all over a Buffalo team ranked in the bottom 5 in the country in pts and pass yds and a tv game in single digits. Things you forget to do while running on a treadmill. Oh well. Here we go

    1. BYU +7.5 v Boise- The current line is 6.5, public $ on Boise and the cheddar line is 7.5 Easy decision here considering the number cut below a key number of 7. BYU has a hell of a defense and I owe them one for making the Utes my essay pick (winner) last week. Plus those mormons cant get out their frustrations laying the wood to each other so this is the only way they can release the poison. BYU held Utah to 1.4 yds/carry on the ground and a stunning 3.2 yds/play overrall. Boise isn’t the mighty Boise we are used to.

    2. FIU +13.5 v Lville- Because this feels too good to be true. Line hasn’t budged from 13.5 and the largest public action of the week, maybe even the season so far, is on the Ville. Plus it’s the first road game for a young squad. Either FIU covers easily or the Ville wins by 4tds+. I might look really stupid on this one. The only good news is I don’t expect any other Cheddar participant to have the balls to take FIU in this one so game theory tells me to stick with it.

    3. ND -5.5 v scUM (All play)- One of the things I’ve learned about college fball is to always take the side with the better o/d lines and if there’s a big mismatch to hammer that side. In this case it’s not even close, the Domers have a huge advantage. Their front 7 is not that far off Bama and we all saw what happened there. This is also a revenge spot for ND at home after the whooped Michigan last year and got unlucky with all the turnovers deep in Michigan territory. While I dont expect a blowout a 27-20 type victory could be in order.

    4. San Jose St +3.5 v SDSU- San Jose is turning into one of those covering monsters when the world still assumes they stink based on prior seasons. La Tech was my darling last year and maybe SJSU will be the same this season. We all thought Stanford “struggled” only beating SJSU 20-17 in the opener. Maybe SJSU is just good?? As we saw last week Stanford aint half bad. Not that it’s a big feat but they came back and blew out Colorado St last week by 20 and are now 3-0 ats this season. SJSU has an excellent passing game and should be able to win outright. The line has come down to 3 and I expect a 2 or 2.5 by gametime.

    5. Rutgers +7 v ARK- Tyler Wilson better not play. In honor of Schiano and his play till the last whistle mentality I’ll go Scarley Knights here.

    6. Minnesota +7.5 v SF (Essay)- The world loves the niners. Rightfully so but now after an emotional first two weeks at GB and at home on Sunday night vs Detroit they go on the road in a ho hum game in Minnesota. The Vikings are stinging after losing a heartbreaker last week vs Indy. Looks like a decent spot to take advantage of an overreaction for the Niners. Also as good as SF was last year, on the road they went 6-2 but here is the margin of victory in those 6 W’s- 5,1,6,8,2,7. That’s what you get with a hard nosed coach who plays defense and field position. And as SF proved last year in a big road game L at Baltimore, their line can struggle vs speed rushers, aka Jared Allen. I’ll take the points here and with AP you always have a chance.

  • Cousin_of_Cohen

    I’ll post the rest of my picks later, but I want to get in on tonight with my ESSAY PICK:

    Panthers +1. Has this line really moved a full 4 points? It opened at Panthers +1.5 and now it’s looking like Panthers -2.5. What a steal!
    Also it looks like a little of this is taking effect too:

    By the logic of that article (which I really like), even if the Vegas reaction to the replacement refs was not reflected in the Panthers +1.5 line, the line still moved an additional 3.5 points! They’re just BEGGING for action on the Giants here. The initial line probably took into account Bradshaw being out (that’s been expected for a couple days at least), but is Nicks really worth 3.5 points himself? Are people overreacting to the replacement refs/home field advantage here?

    Sure, home teams performing at a 23-9 clip (19-12-1 ATS) may not be statistically significant in the long run, but I like it tonight.

    Add to this the fact that the Giants have been pretty overwhelming in looking awful against the Cowboys, and looking horrible for a little over half of the home game vs Tampa.

    Who’s going to run the ball for the Giants? This Andre Brown that like half my fantasy league put a claim in for? This game could be close, but if Victor Cruz gets a case of the dropsies like he had in the first game, Carolina will win big. Also, if Carolina can run the ball with any effectiveness (as Dallas did in week 1), they cover easily.

    I’ll post the rest of my picks later.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    **Troy (pk) will beat N. Texas
    Irish (-5.5) Mich
    Texans (-2) Broncos
    Skins (-3.5) Bengals ~ will be looking out for #10 in Cincy this weekend
    Cardinals (+4) Eagles
    Colts (-3) Jags

    **No essay this week, I’m heading out of town early for some Oktoberfesting. Have a great time at the Frowns tailgate and the game, everybody. And remember the NY fans will be out, so if the port-o-potty’s rockin………….tip it over.

  • PML

    As long as we keep it open for all Browns’ games, I am okay with this idea. Maybe we can get a monorail too while we’re at it.

    • Beeej

      That would really put Cleveland on the map, just like Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook!!! It has been my lifelong dream to be a monorail conductor.

      • p_forever

        second best episode ever.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      Forget the monorail I want a Habitrail.

  • Chris M

    I’m not in Cheddar Bay simply because I’m an awful football gambler, but I brought something in lieu of bad gambling advice.

    Here’s a gif of Eric Wright returning a pick 6 against the Giants. Watch this over and over again when Ryan Fitzpatrick is throwing all over Buster Skrine on Sunday.

    • bupalos

      >>>I’m not in Cheddar Bay simply because…>>>

      Sorry we all stopped reading right there because there was a 0% chance whatever followed would not be nonsense, ipso facto.

  • bupalos

    Honestly I wish they’d knock that thing down altogether and put up something with some ghost of a shadow of a soul. I find nothing discernibly “Cleveland” about it at all, it looks vaguely like some silver-plastic part that fell off a cheap Transformer toy.

    The ONLY things that redeem it are that the Cleveland Browns play there (which is enough) and it’s lakefront, snowy, windy, and cold. And the windmill.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      I like the windmill

      • actovegin1armstrong

        It makes sense Warb,
        I like the “tilting at windmills” concept.
        It could explain Shurmur’s coaching philosophy.

    • wiseoldredbeard

      Note that every single one of the redeeming qualities you list would be gone with a roof. It is easily the dumbest idea ever; dumber than clear pepsi. Let’s see — no snow, no lake, no wind, and no cold? Why not just stick to Madden?

  • David DeBord

    @jimkanicki Give me NYG -1.5 @ CAR

    • Petefranklin

      BALLSY and liked!

  • bupalos

    Oh all right already. I’ll take the Panthers and their point-and-a-half. I wanna watch the game and care, so gotta do what I gotta do.

    I see now how all you people became so immoral.

  • Petefranklin

    CHEDDAR BAY PLAY#1 BYU+7.5 over Boise

  • bupalos

    Hey who won the mangini mini-fathead? I forgot. If I and thou are coming to the tailgate I’ll get it done and bring it.

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      I think I can claim that…sadly I am busy with my kids birthday parties this Sunday.

      There is a benefit to your wife only having sex with you on Christmas…both of your kids are born around the same time and it’s only one Sunday lost.

      Biki gave me some really good links on Twitter though so I am getting in shape and the wife is even giving me a second glance.

      Seriously…I promise to make an appearance this year.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        DAMN IT.

        Well I get the mini Mangini fathead then.

        • bupalos

          That’s not how it works.

          Plus it isn’t coated to protect against precious bodily fluids so it can’t go to you.

  • WooMike

    Count me in for a Panthers +1.5 play tonight. I’ll get the rest in tomorrow.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    My employer blocked Frowns today at work.

    I bought the IT guy a Diet Pepsi and asked a small favor.

    Best $1.25 I ever spent.

  • WestPalm27

    Put 2 domes on the stadium, change the colors to pink and red and name the stadium Art Modell Stadium…just give me a fucking Super Bowl win in my lifetime.

  • Atdietz80

    The dome won’t happen. Next story. What improvements should be made to the stadium to improve the experience?
    1) See if G.E. Smith is free to rock again (extreme sarcasm is a tough read in print)
    2) Take a page out of Seattle’s blueprint and find ways to make the stadium resonate sound better. Or we can just pump in crowd noise.
    3) Look for any possible advantage on gameday: malfunctioning headsets for visitors, laser pointer at the QB.

    Councilman Polensek sure did get mileage out of the dome talk. He’s on some sort of committee looking into the dome issue and asked a question about it. The media loves bringing up dome stadiums once every 10 years. I don’t think Polensek is a sociopath. Not sure if there’s any more to that than the author is claiming. Maybe for still living in his ward of Collinwood. Other than that, he seems to care about serving his constituents.

  • ChuckKoz

    Want Louisiana Monroe (+7.5 vs baylor) and Michigan for all play.
    Should have full slate of picks by saturday

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Oh, and one last thing for the tailgate ~

  • Holly Wellman

    it wasn’t the new owner kicking anyone out the game. he hasn’t even got control over team until the owners meeting and vote. it was personal with power trip looking to impress but really they did the opposite. i love the home field advantage our out door stadium brings. the whole reason a doom is being brought up isnt the new owners fault as well. reason its the nfl’s fault is the nfl now for some reason only allows warm states or dome super bowls. yes a super bowl brings in a lot of money not just for owner but for the city and cities near by cleveland. hotels,business,resturants,bars,clubs alot family owned would benefit not just bigger business but family business with families and kids needing the income. i believe jimmy hassalam has alot of money already ,he is doing this for us! i would bet if jimmy had it his way super bowls would be in a blizzard. or if not only use dome for the super bowl.

  • manc

    Is this even structurally feasible? I know Haslem said he was having a couple of architectual/engineering firms look at adding a roof, but it seems you’d almost have to tear this thing down to the nubs to make it work.

    You know what would make the Browns game experience better? 1) win 2) quit kicking people out for behaving like fans

  • Ed

    I believe the Browns V 2.0 is some 40 games BELOW .500 at the stadium since the reincarnation. Truly embarassing.
    Mike, Dover

  • bossman09

    frowns, I’m shocked that you are backing the concerns of the billionaire owned football team and not the city. We paid for it and all we get is 10 NFL games plus a handful of other events. Of course, anyone with half a brain would realize that the is ZERO possibility that they can put a dome on it now. It’s like trying to convert an Accord to an F350. The real failure was that the City didn’t take advantage of the situation and build a retractable roof facility in the first place. Then you could be open air for the football games and closed roof for everything else. Add in a hotel and the horseshoe casino and you have a real attraction.

  • ChuckKoz

    so i read about this. agree with you frowns about dome being dumb. and the proponents of “super bowls and ncaa final 4s” is just dumb because the costs of the dome ($200 mil, prob) is way more than a few events will ever generate.

    however, its fine haslem talked. he was invited to a counsel meeting. he is the new guy in town. you just go out of courtesy. if it goes much beyond that, its a problem.


    I’d like to scratch my Rutgers cheddar pick with Wilson now playing. I’d like to replace Rutgers with UNC -16.5 v E Carolina. Thanks

  • Dan

    yeah what a great “home field advantage” we’ve had with all the terrible weather. A good team will beat a bad team whether its in the snow or in perfect weather. You’re missing out on a bigger issue, revenue for the city for other events it will bring, not just a super bowl. the majority of the players on the browns are not even from Cleveland so they don’t like playing in -5 degree weather. It’s people like you that will keep Cleveland from becoming a thriving city by writing crap like this. Start thinking forward for your cit. The rest of the country is moving ahead, you’re helping keep Cleveland behind.

    • ClevelandFrowns


      • actovegin1armstrong

        It is all your fault Frownie.

        I am just going to point the truth out now, Frownie started the “Great Rustbelt Migration”!

    • manc

      What other events does the lack of a domed stadium keep Cleveland from getting? (shitty sentence structure there). Maybe a college football game or a bowl? Perhaps. NCAA final four? Probably not, NCAA’s looking to go back to arenas. Big concerts? Political conventions? The Q is more than adequate. I don’t see how the revenue pays for the construction/remodel.

      If you talked about the horseshit job the city’s done developing/exploiting Lake Erie’s waterfront, yeah, good point, but a domed stadium doesn’t do much if anything to allieviate that.

      And lay off Frowns. I don’t agree with everything the guy writes but folks like him aren’t the problem with NE Ohio. He’s a pretty passionate advocate for Cleveland and environs.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        “And lay off Frowns. I don’t agree with everything the guy writes but folks like him aren’t the problem with NE Ohio. He’s a pretty passionate advocate for Cleveland and environs.”

        Nicely done manc,
        I should have been more sincere with my rebuttal, instead of trying that sarcasm stuff for which I am not well suited.

        To be simple, less flippant and more succinct, Frownie is completely correct on this one. Those damn salt miners know how to argue.

  • actovegin1armstrong

    Is anyone at the tail gate yet?
    I would really be thrilled by some pics.
    For the first game of the season back in 1978 I took my tank 1972 Thunderbird in through the lake side of the old lot at 2:30 am and we started the party early. (Underage and hammered.)
    At the game I launched some rather unparriably eloquent jabs at Orenthal James Simpson. Long before he killed Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman there was a rumor that he killed his daughter.
    Needless to say I did not like that guy and I let him know it. It has always amazed me how far the voice of one dum drunk (me) can carry.

    I wish I was tailgating with the cool kids at the game today.

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