If you expect nothing from Shurmurball, you’re never disappointed

by Cleveland Frowns on October 21, 2012

For the first time since Blaine Gabbert led the Jacksonville Jaguars into Browns Stadium last November, Browns Nation enters a real NFL game with legitimate expectations of victory. Today it’s in Indianapolis against the Colts, a team in the early stages of a rebuild that’s lost its head coach Chuck Pagano to a battle with leukemia, and also about half of its starters on the defensive side of the ball thanks to an array of injuries. Six of seven Plain Dealer panelists are calling for a Browns win, twelve of the thirteen who’ve weighed in on the match-up in our Cheddar Bay Reality Football contest have picked the Browns to cover the 2-point spread, and according to ESPN’s Dave Tuley, even “the sharps and bigger bettors [in Las Vegas] are on the [Browns today].”

“What do the Browns have to do to get more support?,” Tuley asks. “They covered on the road against the Ravens, they had the Giants on the ropes [LOL] before losing the cover late in that game two weeks ago, then they ran over [LOL] the Bengals last week. Trent Richardson has been upgraded to probable; he should have a huge game if he plays.”

What do the Browns have to do to get more support? What do the Browns have to do to get more support?

Pounding the decimated Colts and their 29th ranked rush defense would be a start. Our NFL picks for today’s games are here, best wishes to Jason Pinkston, and the rest is your Shurmurball open thread for Browns v. Colts.

  • Kamov

    Looking forwards to winning our 2nd Superbowl in 2 weeks! GO PAT GO! THE WORLD IS CHEERING FOR YOU*.

    *to be competent.

  • Bryan

    Curious: how did the Colts beat the Packers if they are so terrible? We’re they healthier going into that game?

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Yes. They lost Robert Mathis and Donald Brown in that game, and lost Cory Redding and Moise Foku the next week against the Jets.

      • Bryan

        I see. I think our O will be ok, but according to QBR we are going against a QB substantially better than Rodgers and Brees, so I expect the D to be shredded. A win over one of the best QBs in the league on the road, though, would be impressive.

  • Petefranklin

    Once again Frownie is the voice of reason, one win for the Clowns and one bad loss for the Colts and everybody is crowning the Clowns.

    • Believelander

      “Hey, that’s great, but who are the Chefs?”

      Who are the Clowns?

  • Peter

    Browns over colts
    steeler over benals
    raider over jags
    vikes over cards
    cowboys over panthers

  • maxfnmloans

    Glad we were able to score that first TD, despite Owen Marecic’s best efforts on the second down run. Why is he even on the team?

    • etc

      Not his fault, the Browns ran the same play on first down before the end of the quarter. Must be a new wrinkle in Shurmurball, fake out the opponent by running the same thing after a timeout, hope they forget.

      • maxfnmloans

        I’m thinking we should use “Shurmur!” like Seinfeld used “Newman!”

        Also, the defense just got drawn offsided on 4th and 1 by a rookie. In junior high ball, if we made that mistake, we had to run laps until we cramped up. I wonder if they do this in Berea?

        • etc

          It’s a kinder, gentler Berea.

          Seriously, by this point they have a reputation for it. Can’t someone tell them to watch the damn ball?

          • maxfnmloans

            Usama Young watches the ball…most often as it goes right past him.

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

          My favorite part was (this morning) when Booms was screaming for a coach that holds players accountable for their mistakes. Meanwhile, he will still say that firing Mangini was the best thing the Browns ever did. He’s such a fucking dope.

  • Bryan

    T Rich killing us. Not healthy. Get off field.

    • bupalos

      Not convinced he’s all that great anyway. Needs some work on making decisions.

      • BIKI024

        did you feel Luck looked any better than Weeds??

        • Believelander

          A little bit, even though Weeden’s stat line was better.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        There is no time for fancy moves and hesitation in the NFL.
        Hit the hole, one move and go.

        That is why the Browns should have Mo Claiborne right now at the other corner, Sheldon Brown at Safety and TJ Ward making hits on special teams and coming off the bench occasionally.

        Oogie Boogie and MonPrinceEdwardIsland Hardesty should be sharing the load at running Back.

        • Leftyjsf

          Love the PEIreference. My law school roommate, whom I converted into a Browns fan, was an Islander.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            PEI is absolutely beautiful, but I could not imagine living there.
            I did a race there in August and I rode the first hour with a jacket on. It was a nice break from the 100+ degree F races in Texas, but I felt like a sissy wearing a jacket and shivering in August.

            I almost froze my Shurmurs off.

          • Believelander

            I’m going to assume your ‘Shurmurs’ are your butt cheeks and not your cajones.

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

          As far as I can tell, teams are throwing on Claiborne at will. Am I missing something?

          • bupalos

            Can’t say I’ve really watched Clairborn™. But while it wouldn’t surprise me that any rookie corner was giving up a lot, it would surprise me if that still wasn’t an upgrade over what we’ve got going back there.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Yesterday he intercepted Newton in the end zone and he had a game saving pass break up on 4th down at the end of the game.
            He is not Revis Island yet, but he was the most talented player taken in the 2012 draft.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Am I mistaken when I say that was his first pick of the year?

          • actovegin1armstrong

            It was his first, but how many interceptions does Trent Richardson have?

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            How many Touchdowns does Claiborne have?

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Chris M you are always a cordial posting friend and I hope that this does not offend you, but you are clueless on the Browns’ respective philosophy.
            It does not matter how many touchdowns TRich has.
            It is all about field goals!

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Touche, sir.

          • Defenestration

            Trent Richardson kicking field goals goes beyond even the furthest bounds of the YOLO offense. So much offensive innovation coming out of Cleveland, it’s hard to keep up.

  • ClevelandFrowns

    I think it might be safe to say that Josh Gordon is a baller.

    • AlvaroEspinoza10

      and right on time. though the sun might be a factor there. admit it frowns: weeden had a perfect throw to little on first td, and again on gordon td. and that was a *perfect* throw that gordon dropped right as weeden was getting hit.

      not crowning him as capable to lead to the super bowl, but at this point he’s showing more than any other QB in new era.

      • bupalos

        agree it’s weeden’s best game. Without much pressure though.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Weedon got lucky this game he had at least 3 passes that the Colts dropped,otherwise it would be comparable to the Eagles game.

          • bupalos

            There was one horrible terrible late bad-decision pass that they “dropped.” Though I suspect there was some screw up in the routes too, because unless Shurmur really is all that Frownie thinks he is, there is no way you run two receivers to the same spot that late in the play.

          • Cranky M

            If by 3, you mean one. I only saw one bad pass that could have been picked.

            And this may shock you, but every QB in the league throws a few passes per game that could easily be intercepted.

            To say that it would have been comparable to the Eagles game leads me to belive that you either didn’t watch the Eagles game, or didn’t watch the Colts game….

      • ClevelandFrowns

        Don’t disagree with that.

      • Bryan

        My optimism for Weeden grows. He has true talent throwing the ball. He is still learning for sure, but you can see that the mental side is catching up with the physical side each week.

        Man, if Gordon makes that catch…. Curses.

        • Believelander

          Even worse, if Hodges just handles the extra point snap, we at least have a shot at a Phil Dawson field goal to drag this thing into overtime.

    • BIKI024

      way to put the reverse jinx on

    • Jim

      Receivers taken in the second round this year: Brian Quick, Stephen Hill, Alshon Jeffery, Broyles, and Rueben Randle. Would you take any of them over Gordon? I think the Browns may have actually stumbled into a heck of a pick.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Good call Jim,
        I was really worried that the Browns were going to “reach” and take Stephen Hill with their second pick in the first round.
        I like Hill, but I thought that he was one of the most overrated players in the draft. He is most assuredly a bit of a project.

        • Cranky M

          I saw Hill drop more than one easy pass in the Pats/Jets game today. He was wide open on a 3rd and 3 near the end of regulation, and let a 1st-down pass bounce right off of his chest. They would have been in the red zone with a 1st down and had to settle for the tying FG.

          Gordon has already wildly exceeded my expectations. The idea of him and Little progressing over the next season is pretty exciting.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Exactly Cranky,
            Hill is tall and fast, but he has hands like Roberto Duran.
            I am not completely sold on Little.
            I would like to see Little moved to RB and Oogie Boogie playing receiver.

          • bupalos

            >>>I would like to see Little moved to RB>>>

            Even though it’s coming from you Acto, Little as a 3rd down back is not an insane idea.

          • Believelander

            Little had 6 catches in 7 targets yesterday with 0 drops (and 1 epic bobble) so while I could get behind this if his dropsies can’t be cured, I’m excited to see some progress out of him. Now he just needs to catch all the passes thrown to him on a regular basis.

            As for Ogbonnaya, I thought about this and the problem is that he’s not talented enough to play wide receiver. At running back, he draws at best a linebacker in coverage and much of the time, nobody at all, which lets him get the ball in space and do what halfbacks do so well when they get into the second and third level of the defense. At WR, he would take another wideout off the field, which means he would usually command coverage from a cornerback, and I think he’d be a lot less productive.

    • Believelander

      Haha Pete I mean this purely in good fun, but I’m troubled that you only start to like a wide receiver after he makes a game-murdering drop.

      …but no seriously, Josh Gordon looks like a baller. Also Josh Cooper looks like a baller. If Cooper can be the agile little underneath guy who gets clear of his coverage and makes his catches, we could have a really nice outside-in pass attack here soon.

      • bupalos

        Cooper’s production feels like another red flag on Shurmur to me. First, why wasn’t this guy green-lighted at the start of the season. Second, why is Weeden’s choice (he clearly is Weeden’s choice, both in draft and within plays) so much better than Shurmie’s?

        • Believelander

          Well to be objective, Cooper has to point 6 catches for 92 yards in 2 games, so I’ll give it a few weeks before I officially accept his baller status. Also, when he was called up and asked about how he felt about the coaching staff cutting him during the preseason, Cooper said rather deftly that there were still NFL-level concepts and schemes that he was still learning, and that the month he spent on the practice squad really gave him time to get better and prepare himself to play on the NFL level.

          The problem for a coach is it’s sometimes hard to see what you have because he doesn’t fit the talent mold. What the game needs to evolve to realize is that guys like him may not have the physical ‘talent’ of these bigger stronger faster wide receivers, but it doesn’t mean they’re not talented. Their game is dismissed as a thing others can learn to do, but the fact is, Andre Johnson, Vincent Jackson, and Calvin Johnson CAN’T be Wes Welker. Wes Welker, smaller, slower, not as strong, has physical abilities that none of them can mimic.

          Of course these guys are still at a disadvantage overall and have to make up for it by practicing their ass off and becoming highly skilled, more so than the others who can make up for it with raw talent. But it reminds me of the NBA, where a lot of these 6’6″-7′ guys come into the league without anything resembling a shot, because they’ve never needed it in their lives.

          • bupalos

            Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Cooper is some kind of world-beater. But with due deference to what 1 month on the practice squad may have done for him, out-of-the-box he’s a stronger target for Weeden in this offense than a handful of guys that we’ve used picks on and have been working on for over a year. And it seems like Weeden knew that and AskPat/Heckert didn’t. Remember this guy is an undrafted invitee (basically Weeden’s invite) with 1 month on the practice squad.

          • Believelander

            Well 31 other GMs passed on Josh Cooper 7 times, so I’m not going to bag on Tom Heckert particularly. It’s more of an indictment of the entire system of analyzing and scouting when these UFAs come into the league and take it by storm. Some of it just comes down to who wants it more, too.

            And as far as the part of the roster cuts, which as I understand really come down mostly to the coaching staff, I’m no longer surprised by anything that Pat Shurmur does except when it’s competent.

    • Believelander

      Gordon: 7 games (3 starts), 14 catches, 333 yards, 23.84 yards per catch, 4 touchdowns.
      Blackmon: 5 games, (5 starts), 13 catches, 119 yards, 9.2 yards per catch, 0 touchdowns (1 2-point conversion).

      Will update stat line for Blackmon after Jags game.

      • Jim

        First round receivers:

        Michael Floyd, 7 catches, 84 yards, 1 touchdown.
        Kendall Wright, 33 catches, 284 yards, 2 touchdowns.
        A.J. Jenkins, 0 catches, 0 yards, 0 touchdowns.

        Incredibly, I think Josh Gordon has been the most productive rookie receiver in the NFL.

        • Believelander

          There’s a few ways to cut up the statistics – catches per target, first downs generated, etc. But he’s definitely been the biggest deep ball threat, which is odd because it suggests that the Browns have a deep threat wide receiver. And that we got him for a next-year second round draft pick. Keep in mind that a second round pick next year has trade value in draft trades roughly equal to a third round pick of the current year.

          I really hope a lot of Tom Heckert’s talent catalyzes as the year goes on because a) it’s good for the team, and b) it means they’re less likely to turn over a critical front office position.

  • bupalos

    Weird and depressing game. D line was shockingly bad. Still trying to absorb how bad, and trying to figure out how it was that bad.

    Man, do we need to move Sheldon to safety, he would be so good there.

    Man do we need another corner.

    And today Shurmur had the most cut and dried clock mismanagement issue possible. Under two minutes, the other team has the ball and is going to get 4 plays, and you have two timeouts. There is NEVER EVER EVER in a billion and a half years ANY reason to call a timeout after the first snap. NEVER. NO JUSTIFICATION.

    And he did.

    Would it matter? Probably not. But in this game with everything happening as it did, it would have meant getting the ball back with 30-some seconds instead of 1. Which offensively means 3-5 plays instead of 1. And it’s absolutely cut and dried.

    On the upside, the offensive playcalling was OK overall and the sunball to gordon was an excellent call. And the guy probably should have had it. Anyone who has caught a ball either in the outfield or the gridiron knows the eyes having nothing to do with the last half second. But it’s nice that he has an excuse.

    But the takeaway from this game is that there is still no reason to keep Shurmur and the defensive line either isn’t what it seemed to be, or Aytuba is not ready to play.

    • BIKI024

      I believe Rubin only played a few series before he reinjured his calf.

      • bupalos

        I see that now. But I still can’t figure out how we could be pretty stout the whole game against Cinci and this was just swiss cheese. I can remember about 5 runs where they didn’t get 4-7 yards.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      “Man, do we need to move Sheldon to safety, he would be so good there.”

      I wonder if there could have been a way for the Browns to have a Corner in their secondary that would give them the ability to move Sheldon Brown to Safety.
      Like a really fast guy who wore Purple and Yellow.
      I think the poor guy ended up with a silly Star on his helmet.

      • bupalos

        Agreed, and I can’t say that I see what everyone else is seeing in TRich. Yeah, he’s hard to get down. But often that just means 2 extra seconds off the clock and no extra yards. Both before and after the rib thing, the guy takes too long to decide on inside holes. I think he’s got us maybe 35 yards of extra offense this whole year so far over some average replacement. With Clairborn™ I think you might be talking about 1 or 2 more actual wins.

        • Believelander

          Have you been watching Boys games? He’s shown some flashes of competence, but I’m not sure what you’re seeing in Morris Claiborne. He’s been pretty not good.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I mostly agree with this. I’m not going to say the kid sucks, but he’s awfully pedestrian right now.

  • The Cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs

    THAT THIRD AND SIX CALL CAME IN LATE!!!… HE KEPT LOOKING AT THE PLAYCALL SHEET AND DIDN’T GET IT IN IN TIME AND HUNG HIS OFFENSE OUT TO DRY…

    SO SICK OF THIS!!! SHURMERBALL MUST DIE!!!

    • Believelander

      Start calling it Shrivelball. That’s the first step.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        The water was cold!

        • dubbythe1

          SHRINKAGE!!!!

  • Bryan

    Today was an example of how bad coaching can cost you a win. The following mental errors have to be blamed on bad preparation and thus coaches. The upside, is we do finally have some talent.

    * Missed extra point (if this doesn’t happen, the whole complexion of the 4th quarter is different)

    * Jumping offsides on 4th and inches.

    * Having a 2nd and one from the Indy 40 with 5 minutes left, not getting a 1st down and PUNTING ON 4TH!

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      I called it game over right then.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    Positives

    Brandon Weeden was not sacked. Again.

    The Owner showing emotion in the box was just beautiful to me.

    Negatives

    Pat Shurmur is simply incompetent. The sequence at the end of the first half was simply breathtaking in which two NFL coaches had no clue what was going on in the game. He gets the free play…takes a knee…gets a penalty…AND THEN REALIZES he can throw a hail mary. Breathtaking.

    I won’t even get into the nonsense in the 4th quarter because my 8 year old understands how stupid it was.

    • Believelander

      Additional positives: Josh Gordon toches defense and reels in another touchdown. Should have had 2. It’s still on him that he dropped it, but it’s tough luck that a bizarre sunlight situation made what would have been an easy catch hard.

      Josh Cooper could be that agile possession receiver like a Welker or Doucet. It’s so important to have that in and out passing balance that we haven’t had since we had Edwards, Winslow, and Jurevicius.

      Offensive line not only did NOT give up a sack, they only allowed one tipped pass, and really can’t blame Joe Thomas for that one – his defender fell back about 10 feet and completely sold out for a chance to go for the tip ball.

      Brandon Weeden’s day in general. On a day where our rush attack was inexplicably incapable of generating anything against one of the few rush defenses more atrocious than ours, he was efficient, completed over 60% of his passes, threw no picks, and threw 3 touchdown passes to the perfect location (one dropped, of course). He only made one bad throw in the entire game on his first drive where he nearly threw a pick and was saved by two defenders colliding head-on. Has to do more growing but looked really good.

      And to expand on your take on the negatives:

      Negatives

      Pat Shurmur is simply incompetent. The sequence at the end of the first half was simply breathtaking in which two NFL coaches had no clue what was going on in the game. He gets the free play…takes a knee…gets a penalty…AND THEN REALIZES he can throw a hail mary. Breathtaking.

      I won’t even get into the nonsense in the 4th quarter because my 8 year old understands how stupid it was.

      Not that you weren’t dead on, but really, can two words be any more powerful?

      Maybe “Ask Pat”.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        “in and out passing balance that we haven’t had since we had Edwards, Winslow, and Jurevicius.”

        I know this is a joke, but oftentimes it takes me a while to catch-up to your dry sense of humor.

        • Believelander

          I’m not saying we were really good in 2007, nor that any of the three guys were superstars, but the trio of Braylon Edwards in his one season living up to his potential, Kellen Winslow being the one thing he always was which was an athletic productive receiving tight end, and Joe Jurevicius being a serious reliable possession guy, allowed Derek F’ing Anderson to throw for 4000 yards and go to the Super Bowl.

          The next season we lost Jurevicius and things didn’t go downhill – the wheels fell right off. Like I said, they had balance amongst their receiving personnel that allowed them to do good things schematically and make life a lot easier on their quarterback. Similar to the Jurevicus thing, the Patriots created similar in and out balance that season with Moss, Stallworth, and Welker, and went 16-0 and Brady threw for 50 touchdowns.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Alright, I am sorry Believe.
            Please forgive me I am an old guy and I do not remember the important stuff.
            Like this for example:

            “allowed Derek F’ing Anderson to throw for 4000 yards and go to the Super Bowl.”

            The first SuperBowl that I remember watching was Broadway Joe beating Johnny U.

            I have forgotten the D F Anderson Super Bowl.

          • Believelander

            YOU WIN THIS ROUND, ACTO! Post edited to say PRO Bowl, which is what I meant. I will now go lick my wounds and bide my time in my Believe-Cave.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            I was playing around Believe, no malice intended.

          • Believelander

            Lol whatever, I got smoked. That’s what I get. HAHA Derek Anderson Super Bowl. Yeah right.

  • Believelander

    Alright, I’m going to pull a Frowns this week and bury Pat Shurmur post-game, because while the players made enough mistakes to lose the game, Frownie is completely right in crushing Shurmur because the players, particularly our stable of youngbloods are GOING TO MAKE BIG MISTAKES. He’s got to put them in a position to WIN the game but he’s far far far more conservative and plays with his tail between his legs far more than the dreams of any frothing Mangini hater ever could have expected of Mangini.

    A) Bizarre play calling in the 2-minute drill before the half. You have to get down a long field to put points on the board before the half, down by 8, so you can get the ball back in the second half and go take the lead. Instead, he calls a draw run and runs out half of the clock he has to work with. Note that the Colts had 1 time out, which means that unless you don’t trust your QB to complete even ONE pass, you’re probably going to give it back to Indy with under a minute, even if you go 3 and out. In an effort to not give the Colts a chance to do anything with a long field and no time outs, he pissed away a great opportunity to close the gap with absurdly conservative 2 minute drill management.

    B) Shurmur continues to grind my gear and his own chances for victory with his absurd, inane, over-conservative refusal to utilize the 2-point conversion. This ties into another obvious flaw in his coaching decisions, but this sort of obsession with the ‘expected points’ and other such advanced stat tools is a serious problem. Expected points can’t quantify how it affects an opposing team to be up by 3 instead of up by 4; can’t quantify what happens if you go down by 1 point with only a minute on the clock and stuffed deep in your own territory; it can’t quantify what it means that your team is forced to go for a touchdown instead of being able to set itself up in field goal range and tie the game. His refusal to go for 2 cost us a chance to force overtime in week 1, and another chance to force overtime this week. Another aggravating refusal to go for 2 against the Bengals didn’t come back to bite us thanks to some decisive late-game heroics by our offense and defense.

    C) Stop f***ing having Ben Watson run 2-yard drags across the field on 3rd and 4. He doesn’t have the speed to get clear of a linebacker or the agility and power to turn up and gain 2 extra yards when he catches the ball with his defender already tackling him. I know he has reliable hands, but use him in pattern where he actually crosses the sticks. Or use him in patterns where he catches with downhill momentum like on our touchdown drive in the 3rd quarter where he rumbled through the entire secondary before they brought him down.

    D) Punting on 4th and 1 at the opposing 40. I’m honestly no longer using the term ‘Shurmurball’ in favor of ‘Shrivelball’ because that’s all there is to say about this conservative choice. It may be the piece de resistance, down by 4 in a situation where a few first downs by the opposing offense would mean you never get the ball back, and about TWO yards outside Phil Dawson’s field goal range. Get the first down, take three more shots at advancing towards the go-ahead touchdown, kick a field goal if necessary, and be in a position to kick a field goal to take the lead.

    We netted 21 yards on the punt we opted for (Jimmy Haslam’s face really said it all), so let’s just say we fail to convert 4th and 1, AND let’s say that instead of the Colts going 3 and out, they get a couple of first downs and kick a field goal, well now you still only need a touchdown to at least tie the game. There was ZERO reason to punt in this situation, and in every conceivable way it hurt our chances to win, even if we manage to pin the Colts deep in their own territory, because barring a highly improbable safety, if they punt back to us they still probably move us back further than where we were with a 4-point deficit and less time on the clock.

    E) The rest is history with the way he closed out the game. Almost entirely missed was the fact that he wasted a time out in unbelievable fashion during a stoppage of play while the ball was being measured before a 4th and inches. Week after week, gaffe after gaffe, it boils my blood how this guy puts his young, talented players out of position to win the game instead of in position to win the game. The conservatism, predictability, and ineptitude are really legendary. I still refuse to bear Pat Shurmur any ill will, nor will I be glad that he is going to be fired, but I will be relieved, because it’s infuriating. He’s playing for his job, and instead of playing to try to steal wins from his opposition and improve his resume, he continues down the same ponderous dopey game-killing road and is playing himself out of a job.

    There’s nothing I would love more than to see this guy just to say f*** it all and go all out and pull onside kicks, fake punts, and endless other chicanery to try to steal any advantage he can from opponents and steal wins. There’s nothing that would make us all happier than for him to have gone 11-0 to finish his season and tell us all to put that in our pipes and smoke it.

    But alas, he lacks even a Mangini level of aptitude for the daring, and every time a critical juncture is reached where we could go for the throat, we get Shrivelball instead.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      Well,hell, you are starting to see what the rest of us see…now if Biki only gets a clue.

      • Believelander

        Starting? I’ve been crushing Shurmur since week 1 2011 when the Bengals threw that TD over our team that hadn’t broke the huddle. The fact that I staunchly stand against Pete on some issues comes down to that for whatever reason, he only writes negative things about the team and manufactures the most negative spin to put on anything that happens with the Browns.

        But no, nobody has to mail me glasses to see that Shurmur is way out of his depth as a head coach in the NFL, especially with a very difficult task of coaching up a roster that’s neither replete with talent nor experience.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Was kinda ment as a joke,but you do sometimes see things with rose-tinted glasses in my defense.

          • Believelander

            For sure. We all as fans see things with rose-tinted glasses at times, too. I try to remain objective as best I can, but my fanperbole will surely bleed through at times. Around here lately I defend the Browns players a lot because they get a lot of undeserved, shameless flak.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            some is undeserved..but some is well deserved; for example Mariecic generally.

          • Believelander

            Uh yes. Marecic should get a job shoveling coal, except I’m not sure he could hold on to the shovel, or that he’s strong enough to operate it. That guy sucks so hard.

  • AlvaroEspinoza10

    Wonder if Grossi is still mentally blasting Mangini for not drafting Sanchez. Hasn’t done in it print for awhile, a shame really

    • Believelander

      You know the irony of Eric Mangini’s genius is that if he drafted Mark Sanchez instead of getting a really nice center, he would have buried the current regime under the overwhelming weight of Sanchize’s USC product mediocrity.

      • rodofdisaster

        2 AFC Championships…with Mangini’s talent. Talent and record have gone downhill since he left there.

        • BIKI024

          not their playoff record, in which he was 0-1.. 4-2 since he left

          • Believelander

            More irrelevant than your betting anecdotes. The franchise is in decline and it’s SO much fun to watch.

          • BIKI024

            Stephen Hill lost the game for them last night, that drop was even bigger than Gordon’s. They played pretty well considering they are missing their 2 best players. They draft well and have a committed owner, maybe a down year for a high draft slot will be just what the doctor ordered for next season.

          • Believelander

            “that drop was even bigger than Gordon’s”

            Maybe for a Jets fan. The Jets still got to go to overtime, and they could have deigned to not surrender a field goal or not fumble on the ensuing possession. There’s no objective way to say that the Hill drop was bigger than the Gordon drop, unless of course, one cares about the Jets losing and not the Browns losing. But then again that would be subjective, wouldn’t it Superfan?

            That said, the Jets loss last night was particularly unsatisfying as they did not lose by 40 to 70 points.

  • Believelander

    Oh Frowns, I feel that we in fact had the Giants ‘on the ropes’ in our game against them even though it was early. If I went to UFC and fought Anderson Silva and he slipped during the first round, I got a lucky shot to his chin and pressed him back into the cage wall, I would in fact “have him on the ropes”, so the term was used correctly. If I were a better fighter, I would be able to continue to pummel him and win the fight instead of having him recover and turn me into a bloody stain on the tarp.

  • trashycamaro

    Anybody notice our awesome run game put up a whole 18 attempts? I know TRich got hurt but Hardesty was a second round pick as well. A great way to set your youngins’ up for success is to get some yards before third down.

    Nice to see Weeds hitting some big throws and nice to see the Gordon pick wasn’t wasted – he’s looking like a solid investment.

    • Believelander

      Whether he can do what he has to do to develop into a ‘complete’ wide receiver remains to be seen, but if that happens the pick would be a complete robbery. If he can have a career feasting on defenses who don’t respect his ability and burst to go deep on them, which is to say, consistently getting open the way he’s been doing over the last month, then yeah, definitely a solid investment.

      We’ll see what happens when defenses adjust their game plan to account for his and Weeden’s deep game, but it’s exciting to see the potential. And even if they shift coverage to account for him over the top, that can open up new opportunities in the run and intermediate passing game – or at least that’s what I hear. As a Clevelander who wasn’t grown when Bernie played, I’ve never seen it in person.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      Still wondering why we don’t play Jackson..is he still on the roster?

      • dubbythe1

        pretty sure he is a weekly injury lister

      • technivore

        Honestly thought you meant Frisman for a few seconds. I had completely forgotten about Brandon Jackson.

  • Leftyjsf

    Driving back to Cleveland from western mass and picked up the Colts feed on the radio.

    A few “observations” – nobody outside of Cleveland respects any of our young talent. Whether it be the Colts broadcast team calling out receptions by Obannier, Josh Gordy or Tight End Josh Cooper or having to imagine how the offense blew the 4th and 1 and wondering what Haslam looked like is embarrassing. Why did we go for it against the Bengals but not today.

    Weeden – I want to exchange my Kenny King lamenated Colt McCoy fan club card but am still hesitant. Big arm, big deal! Yes, he is playing well but through 7 games he still has worst QBR, but for Cassel has the worst rating and is 1-6. “but he’s a rookie, his receivers drop balls and his starting RB didn’t play most of the game….” sounds a lot like last year. I’m willing to jump on the train though. I would like to see him have the ability to audible and guarantee he would be better than what he shows in Shurmurball offense.

    Finally, fire Shurmur now. The fans don’t need to see another lame duck coach and a move now would show the fans ineptitude is not accepted under the new regime. The drops, the penalties the lack of focus, as far as I’m concerned is all on the coaching staff.

    • Defenestration

      “The drops, the penalties the lack of focus, as far as I’m concerned is all on the coaching staff”

      I disagree here, but I think Shurmur’s play-calling, time management, and overall tactical choices are enough that everything else is a piss in the ocean.

      I was in the camp of “just let the dumpster fire burn out.” Now, I think the only defensible reason for not getting rid of Pat immediately is if Haslam et al have a decision already made on their coaching plan for 2013. In that case, an interim coach (presumably one who has previous head coaching experience) could potentially muddy the waters. In that case, (insert verb)-ing for (insert name of player that rhymes with previous verb) under Shurmur and removing all doubt that getting rid of him is the best move is fine with me.

      Placating the fans shouldn’t be a priority when it comes to on-field decisions. Even the most intelligent fans are susceptible to doing things like assessing the quality of a QB by using a stat that is highly influenced by who is part of team-influenced success in specific situations.

      • bupalos

        >>>In that case, (insert verb)-ing for (insert name of player that rhymes with previous verb) under Shurmur>>>

        Come on man, it’s Monday morning.

      • dubbythe1

        the only thing that worries me about an interim is the fact our team responds and wins some games an muddies our shot at a high draft..

        Shurmur/Holmgren/LaMonte/et al have earned these draft positions, lets be patient and not ruin it…lololololololl

  • Kamov

    Welp, I didn’t get to see the game today on account of going to an air show instead, but I saw this quote from Shurmur in the PD so I assume we won?

    “For the past month the special teams has contributed in the victories”

    And Trent says to Ask Pat, so I am sure that we won! It is good to finally have a winning streak going. This team is turning it around all right.

    • dubbythe1

      victorie(s)<—— where the heck did Shumur find that S?

      • Believelander

        He was doing the reporters a favor because ‘victorie’ just looks odd on paper.

  • Believelander

    New favorite QBR microcosm: this gem of a game log following Washington-New York. Scroll down past the scoring summary and team comparison and compare the passing summaries. Note the stat lines for each quarterback, and their respective ESPN Total QBRs. Completely mystifying.

    • maxfnmloans

      that has to be a type-o, right? How does that even work? If that’s actually calculated as ESPN intended, then that is mystifying indeed

    • Born Into This

      Manning-to-Cruz turned the game from a 9% NYG win probability to a 99% win probability: http://live.advancednflstats.com/index.php?gameid1=2012102100

      When considering the question: “What is the quarterback’s contribution to winning in each situation?”, the answer in regards to Eli was quite a bit.

      • Born Into This

        Correction: to a 86% win probability…

        • Johnny

          And the RG3 TD one or two plays before that took the WP from 4% to 91% in Washington’s favor. So I still don’t see how the discrepancy is that big for Eli over RG3.

          When you have a black box statistic, it deserves to not be trusted. Release the formula and let subject matter experts take a look at it.

          • Believelander

            They can’t release the formula to the layman because it’s over 10,000 lines of code. They could give it to other football sabermetric organizations, but see then it’s not proprietary, plus those guys could just sit down, analyze it, and laugh it off, which would hurt ESPN’s paper-thin credibility.

        • Believelander

          So the RG3 bomb touchdown that didn’t involve 50 YAC by the receiver that had a greater win probability impact doesn’t matter. (Because Total QBR is Total BS)

      • ClevelandFrowns

        Thank you. It’s not hard. My high school coach said it all the time. Great players make great plays to win ballgames.

        • Believelander

          LOL because of course RG3 making a better throw to Santana Moss just before Manning’s and otherwise being superior to Manning in every passing category means that Manning’s great throw was greater than RG3′s GREATER throw because of – oh yes – circumstance. And so much for division of credit on Victor Cruz’s 50 yards after catch.

          The problem with QBR again is that it destroys any potential it has to actually tell you how good a quarterback is because it’s too busy telling you (supposedly) how valuable they were to their team winning, which factors in so many things that have zero to do with the quarterback.

          Oh, and it’s also unfortunately wrong because if Manning makes that throw in the first quarter instead of the fourth, the Giants oddly still have more points at the end of the game than the Redskins.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          You are correct Frownie.
          I always put “the eyeball test” far above all else.
          RG3 looked really good at times, but Eli has been making clutch plays at an astounding rate and he looks very businesslike while doing it.
          Also, his team won the game, as Hermie said, “You play to win the game.”
          I have been impressed by RG3, but he has a lot more to prove.
          However to paraphrase Dennis Green, “If you want to crown him then crown his ass!”

      • Bryan

        But why does Manning get all the credit for having a wide open receiver streaking down the field? Yes, it was a big play and Eli deserves credit, but the question is how much? RGIII’s play a minute earlier was a much harder throw made under the same pressure, and overall RGIII was better throughout the game, yet Eli’s QBR is much much higher? This raises questions about how QBR weights different dimensions of performance.

    • Deputy Glitters

      Piling on here again, but can someone please explain to me:

      1.) How Weeden can be 4th in the league in ACT Plays (Plays on which the QB has a non-zero points expectation. Includes most play which are not handoffs), but is so drastically behind in almost every other QBR category? This seems to be some weird statistical anomaly right?

      2.) How is Weeden’s Pass EPA 10 times lower than the next worst QB, Matt Cassell? Bizarre. I’m also curious as to how much his Pass EPA would have increased had Gordon caught that pass. Surely would have been a “clutch” throw.

      • Bryan

        Totally agree. Some of the metrics for Weeden just don’t make sense, and complely contradict other metrics.

        A key issue with Weeden is that his first game was so historically bad that it has ruined most of his overall stats. If you take out Week 1, things generally make a lot more sense – i.e. the stats are generally consistent with what your eyes are seeing – this guy makes mistakes still, but overall is doing a lot of good things. For example, his Rating in his last 6 games is like 85.

        The only exception to that is QBR, which just seems to hate Weeden. But because ESPN will not tell us how they make QBR we really don’t know precisely why it hates Weeden so much.

        • Deputy Glitters

          Seems like a ginger hating, Steeler loving, troll is hating on Weeden behind the curtain.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

          • Bryan

            Best explanation yet – Steeler’s fan is pulling the strings on QBR.

            If we run the numbers for Mark Malone it turns out he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Him and Louis Lipps

          • Believelander

            If Yinzers are pulling the strings, it would explain why you didn’t include Kordell Stewart, who was of course not white.

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    Shurmie-n0-nuts.

  • DarkwingDork

    *Sigh* Once again, the Browns find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

  • Beeej

    My observations some points have been touched on:
    1. If it wasn’t obvious after his first carry that TRich was hurt then it should have been by his 3rd. We’re not making the playoffs this year (cue Jim Mora PLAYOFF!?!), why are we trying to ruin TRich for next year?
    2. In college Weeden’s team scored a TD every 37.2 (completely made up) seconds. Why at the end of the first half did it look like he had never run a 2 minute drill before?
    3. Would it kill us to run a play action pass on first down every once in a while? Whenever I see Browns 1st and 10 I have “Metcalf up the middle,” running through my head.
    4. Weeden’s throw into double coverage was awful, but I saw that as more of a rookie thing. He is still making better throws than any other Browns Qb I’ve seen in the last 13 years.
    5. The look on Haslem’s face when Slumber decided to punt on 4th and 1 at the 40 was the greatest thing ever. Despite his questionable background, it is nice to have an owner who cares and…you know…watches the games. Also, the look can be summed up in 3 and a half words, “Well, you’re fired.”

    • Cranky M

      Like somebody else said, it seemed that one of the receivers messed up the route, as well. There should never be two receivers that close together, so there shouldn’t have been that many defenders there, either.

      That being said, it was a terrible throw. But it’s the only terrible throw i can remember him making off-hand.

      • Beeej

        I thought there were too many receivers in the same area, but I thought that was part of Shumur’s plan. “If we have all our receivers really close together, it increases our odds of one of them getting the ball.”

    • Believelander

      I’m bagging on Slumber for the 2-minute drill fiasco. He called a draw run with like 90 seconds on the clock deep in his own territory. By the time we got a second play off it was at like 1:10, and he’s calling quick slants in. He should have been calling intermediate strikes to Little and Benjamin, using Gordon to swab out the safeties by sending him deep, and letting Weeden bomb to Gordon if he torched the secondary as he seems to do 2-3 times every game now.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    I guess Holmgren’s talking to the press tomorrow, according to Bruce Drennan. What could he possibly have to say at this point?

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      So long and thanks for all the fish?

      • dubbythe1

        you officially made my Monday, thanks.

      • technivore

        This one took me a second. Brillliant.

    • Believelander

      “Sorry”?

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    Thinks about all the different things that happened yesterday.

    Goes back to the headline for this very post.

    I don’t expect anything from Shurmurball but damn am I going to miss this guy. I almost can’t wait to see him match wits with Norv on Sunday.

  • Cranky M

    Whatever happened to Eric Hagg? Kept hearing how great he looked in preseason, and now i’m stuck watching Usama Young. And i really, REALLY hate watching Young. At this point, i would rather watch Ray Ventrone try to play safety again.

    Has Young made a single play so far this season? The only times i even notice him or on replays of big plays going right past him because he took a terrible angle.

    • Believelander

      Eric Hagg started looking really not great in the regular season. He’s a 7th round pick rookie, so.

      Doesn’t mean he won’t be any good, of course.

      • Cranky M

        Yeah, i realize he’s a 7th round rookie. Usama Young, on the other hand, is Usama Young. So i would prefer the 7th round rookie.

  • Cranky M

    Also, who was it that kept saying Weeden has only made “2 or 3 throws that McCoy couldn’t make” all season? I would like to hear his thoughts on the two TD passes, and the third TD pass that Gordon dropped….

  • Beeej

    Looking at the title of this post a second time, it sums up my feelings for the season. I don’t even get angry at the loses anymore. Every game is an exercise in apathy.

    • bupalos

      And then there’s me. I don’t expect anything, and am still disappointed.

  • Jls44512

    I like Shurmur and obviously so do the players. He is a rookie and needs some time. Our problem is we change coaches every two years and “start over”. Whoever from your paper that was on All Bets Are Off with Bruce Drennen……………said he liked Mangini and wished we still had him. COME ON MAN!!!! We are at the draft, Clay Matthews is up, we pass on him. Now that is a jackass! I suppose you liked Trent Dilfer and DA. You proclaimed fans are often total jerks!

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