Shurmurball in the Big City

by Cleveland Frowns on October 7, 2012

The Browns put their perfect record on the line today in New York against the Giants, as well as their current league-longest streak of not having a lead for even one second.

Mary Kay Cabot says, “the [Browns'] coaches, players and personnel guys all still believe this is a good team on the verge of winning.”

Bill Simmons says, “the Giants have proven — steadfastly, violently and relentlessly over these past few years — that they shouldn’t be allowed to give more than a touchdown at home under any circumstances.” Simmons expects the Giants to turn in “the week’s biggest mail-in performance that doesn’t include the words ‘Obama’ and ‘debate.’”

We think Bill is probably a week too late with this idea, but can a rookie quarterback who’s worst in the league by a mile in ESPN’s advanced total quarterback rating make hay with a banged-up receiving corps against a banged-up Giants defense that’s likely to stack the box against Trent Richardson? Can the Browns Haden-less defense make some plays to slow down a Giants attack that’s missing its starting right tackle and two starting receivers? As always, it’s why they play the games, and it’s why they call it Shurmurball. Our NFL picks for Week 6 are here and the rest is your gameday open thread.

  • ClevelandFrowns

    Shout to Kanicki and Rod who are both at the game today.

  • ClevelandFrowns

    There’s also this, from Mary Kay http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/10/cleveland_browns_vs_new_york_g.html :

    “Browns cornerback Dimitri Patterson will have the dubious task of keeping leading receiver Victor Cruz from salsa dancing in the end zone.”

    It’s a suspicious job keeping track of all this, guys.

  • dubbythe1

    im jusy happy i get to watch the game at home where my sadness can be masked… how depressing..

    • bupalos

      Sorry, you left your sadness hanging out and we can ALL see it!

      • actovegin1armstrong

        I do not have a clue whether Geno will be a FrankSized Quarterback or not.
        It is not often that a real sure thing comes along.
        I am still waiting for the last sure thing, Ryan Leaf to fully blossom as a Framalyzed Quarterback.
        Perhaps Todd Marinovich is available on waivers.

        • bupalos

          Quarterbacks.

          Why bother.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Another Bravo Bupa!
            I keep hitting the like button.
            Now you are getting it Bupa!

          • Believelander

            Super Bowls.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Andrew Luck,he is the real thing.

  • dubbythe1

    also few notes via announcers…

    “no one want to play the Browns…” <-lol wut?

    "Browns draft a guy with no weaknesses at #3….." and "Browns throw 70% of the time" <- so draft a running back #3 then throw 70# and make sure you take him out in 3rd down situations…. #SHURMURBALL !!!!!!

    • ClevelandFrowns

      He said nobody wants to play a winless team because it’s a lose lose. It’s why it’s so hard for teams to stay winless.

      Offensive line looks really good early. Giants aren’t blitzing.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        “It’s why it’s so hard for teams to stay winless.”
        It may be difficult, but the Browns have ShurmurBall on their side. They can do it!
        0-16, “Suck for Luck”!

        Oh, well…. I guess they are a year late.

        • bupalos

          >>>Oh, well…. I guess they are a year late.>>>

          I don’t see anything at #1 in this draft that is clearly better than #8. But at least I think that pussy from USC is out of the mix. I prefer the ginger cringer to that guy.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Geno Smith will get a lot of attention and I have heard people bragging about Connor Shaw.
            Smith looked sharp and cool headed in the Tejas game and Shaw has played well, but it is foolish to waste a first round pick on a QB or a Running Back.

          • bupalos

            I’ll be rooting HARD for Geno to raise the value of that #1. What do you think, real deal?

      • bupalos

        >>>Offensive line looks really good early. >>>

        Shurmur might still be a football coach if he followed this blog.

  • zarathustra

    Don’t underestimate Shurmur with extra time to prepare. I envision at least 60 Weeden passes today. The Giants won’t know what hit them. Coughlin may never coach again. He’ll quit the game.

    • bupalos

      In retrospect, I guess you called it. 3rd and 1 in the 2nd Q was the fulcrum.

  • bupalos

    You’ve got this debate thing down. Furiously spinning the lowered expectations is step 1. Can’t disagree that the Giants look a little bumbly right now though. Haven’t even had to drink yet.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      By stating that my expectations are the opposite?

      • bupalos

        Right. Whoever you favor, you talk them down. So for the 5th straight week it turns out the Browns are playing the second worst team in the league…and even though the Giants spotted them 14 points…

        • ClevelandFrowns

          One of the most popular sportswriters in America, in discussing this precise Browns game, happens to bring up the very same subject of relative motivation that’s been a hot topic here due to so much excitement about close Browns losses. It’s out of bounds for me to quote him?

          Frowns Derangement Syndrome.

          I know it must be frustrating to see how right I am about all of this, but please get a grip.

          • bupalos

            >>>One of the most popular sportswriters in America>>>

            Really. Seriously? That’s where you’re going here? How about you play at least one Simmons hunch in cheddar from here on out? He does a fine job of turning glib phrases after the fact, but I’ve yet to see any actual insight out of him.

            If you want to follow up on this “not getting up for a bad opponent” thing by actually doing the numbers, I’d be interested. It doesn’t happen in the NFL. Weak teams are blood and dollars in the water.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            OK you win. The phenomenon of a team playing up or down to its opponent is a complete fantasy that Bill Simmons and I simultaneously invented clean from thin air.

          • bupalos

            >>>that Bill Simmons and I>>>

            You think this helps your argument. I do not.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Who’s arguing? I said you won. All NFL teams come in equally motivated against all other teams in all match-ups. I don’t know why I didn’t see it sooner.

          • Cranky M

            Bill Simmons is a sportswriter? Could have fooled me.

            I think you’re still downplaying the fact that the Browns are marginally better than we expected. Not good enough to, you know, actually win games or anything….but good enough to at least be competitive. Which is much better than i had anticipated.

          • Believelander

            Sort of like the Mangini team that challenged and fell short a lot in 2010. I’d like to dig up an old quote by Cleveland Frowns (not some dead Macedonian) that says that one should never discourage a man who makes progress, no matter how small.

            And no, Bill Simmons is not a sportswriter. Those written words, even punctuated with a question mark, are offensive.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            There is no progress here, and there is no comparison between 2010 and this dumpster fire.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Two seasons ago we beat good teams and stayed in every game with half as much talent as there is on this roster now.

            Two years later what we are seeing is the exact opposite of progress.

  • bupalos

    Not usually that a big questioner of playcalls, but for god’s sake, why is trent richardson off the field on 3rd downs? 3rd and 1 and you don’t even want him on the field giving them a second thought about whether it’s the Weeden 6 yard out or not?

    Also, weeden’s accuracy issues produced about 14 points of swing towards the giants.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Weeden was completely and thoroughly horrendous today against a defense that was getting no pressure on him. Just a rookie, I know …

      • bupalos

        Really bad. I think this was actually his worst game, all things considered. Didn’t effect the game much, but this was my favorite:

        “I threw the ball once. But now here it is back in my hands. What shall I do?”

        • Defenestration

          Well, in fairness, he has let it be known how much fun he has. That play looked like it would have been a blast. Everyone was properly warned.

          • bupalos

            It was fun. If I had drunk more by that point I prolly would have jumped around and hooted.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            As your doctor; I recommend that you start drinking, heavily.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            actually turned the game off after that play,and added drinking some Jamo to my game day beer diet.

        • Cranky M

          I actually didn’t have much problem with that. His other option was to take a sack, in which case he would have lost 5 yards AND a down. In this case, they lost 5 yards and replayed the down.

          • bupalos

            Pretty sure that was supposed to be 5 AND loss of downs and the refs fucked it up. This may be Bleelandbait. Or maybe I’ve just drunk too much.

          • bupalos

            >>>An illegal forward pass incurs a five-yard penalty and the loss of a down.>>>

            Yup. I can’t believe billions of dollars hinge on these fuckheads.

          • Cranky M

            Yeah, i thought that was the case. But i didn’t want to point that out, as it would harm my pro-Weeden arguments.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            That was hilarious, as soon as that ball left his hands the second time, (as long as it is a forward pass), the whistle should blow, the play is dead.
            -5 yards and loss of down.
            I am the dummest guy I know, but even I knew that.
            Perhaps they should save some money and get those middle school officials back.

          • Believelander

            Hm. I think you’re right. I think. Looking for clarification. Good thing we have ‘real’ refs back.

          • reggiebuckeye

            Or do what most QBs do in that spot, just knock it down when it comes back at you.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Would have been super funny if he’d have thrown a pick on the second throw. Would have been ruled a fumble, I think.

          • Cranky M

            Maybe he forgot the real officials had returned, and was hoping the refs would be oblivious to that rule.

            Or maybe he was just proving that he never gives up on a play. No matter how many passes he has to make in a single play, he will eventually throw a TD!

          • Believelander

            …which again would have put us in 4th down which is not 3rd down. Brandon Weeden may have just revolutionized the Illegal Forward Pass as an offensive weapon.

        • Believelander

          I can really see how it was his worst game. Tied for most touchdown passes, just a hair shy of 300 yards, second highest yards/attempt, second best completion percentage, second highest passer rating. Basically his second best game. But clearly his worst game.

          As I’ve noted above, his illegal forward pass was actually (and possibly accidentally) brilliant because it forced another third down. Since it’s a dead ball foul that’s repeat of down, I do not believe Coughlin would be allowed to decline that penalty – and if he is allowed to decline the penalty you have to take the result of the play (thank you refs for not blowing it dead).

          • bupalos

            >>>Clarification: The refs were right. An illegal forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage is 5 yards and loss of down. A second forward pass is a loss of 5 yards>>>

            So like I said, it’s a good thing we have these professional refs back to guard the integrity of the game.

            Geez I can’t even get my angry Weeden rants right! Still was a little daft to throw the ball but I guess it could theoretically make sense.

        • Jim

          Yesterday does not even compare to his game against the Eagles. Anytime you have a single digit quarterback rating and throw four interceptions, that is your worst game. Although Weeds is the quarterback for the Browns so really all bets are off to see if he can top his game one performance.

      • Cranky M

        I really fail to see how he was “horrendous,” outside of the INT at the end of the first half. And if we had a semi-competent coach, he never would have been passing on that play, anyways. At the very least, a sensible coach would have kept Richardson on the field so there was at least the THREAT of a running play. But no, it’s 3rd and 1, they can’t tackle Richardson, and we’re already in FG range…screw it, let’s not only pass, but let’s also yank Richardson off the field and telegraph the fact that we’re passing.

        Other than that…i don’t know what you expect from a rookie QB with an absolutely terrible receiving corps and a coach who refuses to run the ball or put his QB in a good position to make plays. All things considered, i think Weeden has done pretty darn well. He’s getting better. Not saying he’s been great, but i certainly wouldn’t say he was horrendous.

        • ClevelandFrowns

          Off the top of my head I can think of 5 other throws that he missed by a mile, including to a wide open Gordon for what would have been a sure touchdown.

          Of course there was also the second interception that he threw right at Chase Blackburn. “The only chance he has of completing that throw is if the defender falls to the ground.”

          • bupalos

            yup.

            Of course, you might consider in you’re “total raging dumpster fire” analysis what this game would look like with a modicum of accuracy back there. I counted 18 points.

          • Cranky M

            Yeah, he made some bad throws. Yes, he missed some throws. He also made some very nice passes.

            I hate to keep pounding away at this, but:

            rookie QB, terrible receivers, terrible coach, terrible play-calling, coach who refuses to run the ball to help out his QB and would rather force his rookie QB with terrible receivers to throw 70% of the time. It’s not exactly a set of circumstances conducive to him playing well.

            I just think people are a little too harsh on him. For all of the mistakes and bad throws, can we at least acknowledge that he’s actually shown the potential to be really good? Given some better receivers and a semi-competent coach and play-caller?

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Have recently come to the conclusion that at least half of Weedons mistakes are on Shurmer and his play calling. I don’t think anyone is to harsh on Weedon considering how Colt was treated last season,by the fans and local sports media..if anything most seem to give Weedon a passing grade,granted I don’t,but still compared to Colt Weedon is getting treated with kid gloves by most.

        • Leftyjsf

          The last paragraph Could be lifted in my defense of McCoy. Noodle arm-maybe. At least if we stuck w Colt and built the trenches with quality picks, maybe we take a flashy Geno Smith or a young qb we can develop. Instea we panicked and wasted a first round pick on a 28 yr old who can’t win a game.

          The fact Weeden doesn’t know the batted ball rules is baffling at the pro level.

          Go Browns. RIP Shurmur, Holmy and Heckert (unless Heckert nuts up and can fire Shurmur)

          • bupalos

            >>>The fact Weeden doesn’t know the batted ball rules is baffling at the pro level.>>>

            Which is more baffling, that he doesn’t know them or that the Refs don’t know them?

          • Petefranklin

            That stupid Weeden pick turned the tide in favor of the falcons/Jones trade.

          • Believelander

            Actually, Weeden’s decision to see if the refs wouldn’t realize he threw two passes was utterly brilliant. It was 3rd and goal at the 5, he caught the batted ball behind the 10 and had 3 Giants closing on him. He can’t throw another pass so he can’t throw it out of bounds. So his options are take the sack – 4th and goal at the ~10-13 (field goal). Break 3 tackles and run for the touchdown – improbable. Or throw a second forward pass – the result of which is a dead play, a 5 yard penalty, and a repeat of down. Ergo, he made the best choice unless he suddenly wanted to turn into Jim Brown with 3 guys rushing him and no blockers.

            Now maybe he didn’t realize he couldn’t make that pass or maybe he didn’t, but either way it was the best thing to do in that situation.

          • bupalos

            It’s give yards AND loss of down. Except when the refs screw the pooch. It was at least entertaining.

            But I do think this was his worst game. The big int. was as bad as it gets and he let loose a bunch of other stinkers. What makes it bad is that the giants d isn’t all that good, and he had 0 pressure all day. He’s a rookie. I still have hope.

          • Defenestration

            Nice work on tracking down the rule. I’m really not coming up with a reason why there should be a repeat of the down. If anyone has any sort of reasoning or explanation of the logic there, please share.

            But in any case, thanks for posting the rule and link above. Always nice to get learned.

            The hilarity of what transpired during that play and the great memories of 3-on-3 or 4-on-4 no rules backyard football it brought up made that play so incredibly enjoyable to watch. Now to learn that the course of action taken, as ridiculous as it seemed, ended up with probably the most favorable outcome one could hope for, and that the refs didn’t botch it… it’s almost too good to be true.

        • bupalos

          >>>I really fail to see how he was “horrendous,” outside of>>>

          I think you should copy this phrase to some permanent clipboard, because I have a feeling you will be pasting it many many times over the next year or two.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            I see your point Bupa, it is not just about arm strength.
            Would you rather have rifle arm Mike Phipps or noodle arm Brian Sipe?
            Hey, where did Paul Warfield go?

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Sipe he could win.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Exactly Warb, that is my point.
            The Browns gave up Paul Warfield to get Phipps and Phipps sucked.
            Sipe was a 13th round draft choice, but he could win.
            NFL MVP in 1980

      • Believelander

        No he wasn’t.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      That seems to be the only constant of Weedons game,or perhaps it’s the only constant of Shurmers playcalling.

  • Defenestration

    Can’t wait to tell my future grandkids about the Oh and Four Luxury Offense first implemented by Pat Shurmur in 2012.

    • bupalos

      expound.

      • Defenestration

        When the Browns went for it on 4th and 1 on their own 36 on the first drive of the second half, the announcing crew stated that the luxury of being 0-4 is that Pat Shurmur can take that risk.

        • bupalos

          Zactly. Good work there.

      • Defenestration

        I envision the future Wikipedia page for the Oh and Four Luxury Offense containing something to the effect of “In week 9, fearing his early dismissal as head coach of the 0-8 Cleveland Browns, Shurmur transitioned the OAFL Offense into the YOLO offense. The YOLO offense consisted of going for it regardless of down, distance, or field position until the team crossed the fifty yard line. At that point, Shurmur would immediately send Phil Dawson onto the field to attempt a field goal. The Browns won their only game of the season that day.”

        • bupalos

          Really good. Frowns, you need to pick up on the 0-4 Luxury Offense.

  • nj0

    I see some similarities between this weeks CLE/NYG game and last weeks BUF/NE matchup.

    • nj0

      Did they just call Shurmur an “impressive coach”?

      • bupalos

        They did. You weren’t impressed with going for it on your own 31, then not going for it on the 50 or the opponents 20?

        • nj0

          Is “impressed” the one where you feel kind of sick?

          • bupalos

            Not sure anymore. Hard to distinguish.

        • Chris P.

          I’m impressed that we’re into game five and have not yet handed off to a tight end in a passing situation.

          #progress

          • Petefranklin

            I’m impressed that we haven’t had a lead near the end of the game so that the D can get quick snapped. See Shurmer is improving!

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          actually thought when he didn’t go for it the second time that drive that the game was over.

  • AlvaroEspinoza10

    if Haslem had any doubts before today about firing Shurmur before the season ends, I gotta imagine (and hope) this is the absolute nail in the coffin. sure, plenty of players making mistakes (weeden, cribbs) but the way they laid down after that 1st-half INT is embarrassing and is ultimately on the coach. welcome to the browns Jimmy

    • bupalos

      He said he wouldn’t make any changes this year. I don’t really care if he does or not, since the “real” coach wouldn’t be coming in until next year presumably. But Shurmur has disqualified himself from coaching next year. Looked like a lazy corporate yes-man, IS a lazy corporate yes-man. Buh-bye.

      • AlvaroEspinoza10

        “I’m not going to make any changes until the end of the year” is what he had to say, otherwise the media circus would be insane all season long. I doubt he sticks to it. Why let the rookies and young players flounder around under Shurmur any longer than they have to? Can’t be good for their confidence/psyche. And right on cue, Grossi is starting to pile on Shurmur to position himself nicely once Shurmur is fired.

        • bupalos

          It’s no better to go “interim.” He could make a wave by bringing in a whole new staff mid-year (100% unprecedented at any level of football I’m aware of, though I’d support it). But unless he does that, there is no way that any meaningful change happens.

          Although I do admit it would be fun to see major dad have to actually earn some of his money as a lame duck in a shooting gallery.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=517400620 Jason Hahn

            I’d rather let Jauron take the helm, at least he knows what he’s doing, mostly.

          • bupalos

            I’d rather keep him as a DC in Gruden’s regime. You can’t interim him and then keep him.
            #unwrittenrules

          • Cranky M

            Gruden is awful. Why does everybody pine for Gruden? Has everybody blocked his last few years in Tampa Bay out of their memories already?

          • Kamov

            “This quarterback I’ve just seen is the best quarterback I’ve ever seen! Look at how well he does this thing that quarterbacks do!”

            -John Gruden

          • 910Derp

            bupalos- Urban Meyer would like a word w/you about those rules.

          • Believelander

            I agree with you here – Jauron has the ‘it’ tier than Chilly doesn’t – Childress just doesn’t have that sharp edge that even the most genial head coaches need to have. But both Jauron and Chilly have experience and credibility that Shurmur lacks, and at this point, as much as Shurmur frustrates me, I feel bad for the guy because Holmgren promoted him out of his depth into a really bad situation to toe the corporate line so Holmgren’s bloated ego could see his grand scheme fall into place.

            Instead it’s fallen into pieces.

          • Alexb

            you mean the guy who helms the defense that gave up close to 500 yds of total offense today?

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      If you want to re watch any of the game,re watch Cribbs fumble,his knee was down when the ball came out,kind of like last weeks Thursday game when he ‘fumbled’ after his helmet was off. Not to sound like I feel the officials gave the game to the Giants,there were quite a few phantom calls on our offensive offense today. Yet to seemingly make up for it our deffense had a lot of non calls, don’t remember a pass play that either Brown or Pattinson were not holding/interfering with a reciever,the announcers even commented on that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=517400620 Jason Hahn

    Weeden is awful and Shurmur is a dunce. No adjustments at half-time = losing to a better coached team. Also, did you see that pass by kirk cousins in the Redskins game? We could have drafted him in like the 3rd round instead of wasting a first round on the inept ginger.

    • bupalos

      He’s the one I wanted. We would have also had DeCastro.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=517400620 Jason Hahn

        That was the exact scenario I wanted. Bonus: Shaun Luavao gets off the field.

        • bupalos

          I admit to being more intrigued by Weedon than I though I would. But you better get a coach on him to tell him that unless he learns to think on the field in the heat of battle, he should just retire now. Or go on social security, whichever.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            The more I watch this Shurmer coached team it’s seeming to me that Shurmer wants a puppet on the field and NOT someone who can think for themselves. I in fact actually think the fact Colt would not follow Shurmers plays to the letter is why we drafted Weedon and Colts holding a clipboard.

      • Believelander

        The DeCastro situation is maybe the biggest gaffe in Heckert’s draft management, in my opinion. Excluding a trade up past us by another team with a lower 2nd rounder (which would probably prompt the team fielding the offer to give the Browns a chance to beat the offer, which a matched offer would essentially accomplish with a higher 2nd rounder) I see no reason we shouldn’t have DeCastro AND Weeden, and we probably could have gotten Mitchell Schwartz in the third round somewhere with our 43 draft picks.

        Thomas Pinkston Mack DeCastro Schwarts
        Weeden

        Richardson

        I think that looks pretty good. Oh well.

    • Cranky M

      Way to have some perspective. Kirk Cousins made ONE good pass, so obviously he would have been the answer. That one throw is obviously enough to judge him on, and indicative of the fact that he is a franchise QB….

      Weeden is not inept by any stretch of the imagination. He’s playing with the worst receiving corps in the league, with an absurdly terrible coaching staff and playcalling. He made some really good throws.

      That INT at the end of the first half was awful, but like i said above: there is no way in hell he should have been in that situation to begin with. They couldn’t stop Richardson, why pass on 3rd and 1 when you’re already in FG range? And pull Richardson off the field, letting the Giants KNOW you’re going to pass, on top of everything else.

      • Cranky M

        I just noticed that Cousins also threw 2 INT’s. But whatever…he made one nice pass, so he could have been our franchise QB! Sweet lord…

        • bupalos

          Didn’t see cousin’s performance, just being honest that he’s the guy I wanted. I admit weeden looks intriguing. But the freakouts continue. You can’t win with freakouts. Get a coach in who will hammer him.

          • Cranky M

            I think any evaluation of Weeden has to take into consideration his terrible receiving corps, his terrible coach, and the terrible play-calling. Not really fair to expect too much of him under the current circumstances. When you factor all of that in, i think he’s actually done pretty well. At least well enough that you can imagine him being good with decent receivers and a better coaching staff.
            I mean, look at his receivers today: Gordon is lost, Little can’t be trusted to actually catch the ball, Watson looks like he’s pretty much lost it at this pointm, and Norwood is mediocre at best. And it certainly doesn’t help that Shurmur randomly decides that he doesn’t like running the ball. Ever. Not exactly a set of circumstances that fosters great QB play.

          • Cranky M

            I wasn’t referring to you, anyways. I was referring to this comment:
            “Also, did you see that pass by kirk cousins in the Redskins game? We could have drafted him in like the 3rd round instead of wasting a first round on the inept ginger.”

            Complete and utter lack of perspective. If i didn’t fear the Wrath of Frownie, i would tell you what i REALLY think about it. “Some guy drafted in the third round made one good throw, that one good throw proves we should have drafted him! Completely ignore the fact that he also threw 2 INT’s, and wasn’t highly thought of coming out of college! HE MADE ONE GOOD PASS! CASE CLOSED!”

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=517400620 Jason Hahn

            I didn’t watch the rest of the game, I was just saying if Kirk Cousins can make a pass like that, why did we waste our pick on Weeden? He’s proven numerous times that he struggles throwing slants and any pass to the sidelines. Weeden has made so far this year, 2 passes that I think McCoy MAY not have been able to make. That’s why it’s a waste. Not because I think Cousins is a god or a franchise quarterback.

          • Cranky M

            Well, first of all, if Cousins can make a pass like what? His only TD pass was to a receiver who didn’t have a defender within 10 yards of him. There isn’t a single QB in the NFL, even 3rd-stringers, who couldn’t make that throw. It was busted coverage.

            Second, not only have i seen plenty of passes by Weeden that McCoy couldn’t make, you’re missing an even more important point: all of those short passes that Weeden completes, that everybody wants to complain about? McCoy couldn’t make those throws, because those throws would not even be open for McCoy. The reason they’re open for Weeden is because defenses realize that Weeden is actually capable of throwing the ball downfield, so they have to respect the deep routes. When McCoy is in, the defense knows full well that he is entirely incapable of throwing the ball downfield, so they just stack the box and jump the short routes, daring McCoy to throw the ball downfield. Which, obviously, he can’t do. So those short routes wouldn’t be open in the first place for McCoy. Look at any game McCoy played last season, and see how many of those short routes that Weeden routinely completes were even open when McCoy was playing.

          • Believelander

            Jason, Weeden made multiple throws in today’s game that McCoy would have a world of trouble trying to complete. It’s not just completing the pass, it’s being able to deliver the ball 30+ yards down the field with ease so you can put it right where it needs to be to prevent coverage from catching up.

            I remember a telling play last season against the Niners where Josh Cribbs absolutely torched a corner and safety down the sidelines. Had 2-3 steps on them. Should have been on the highlight reel as a touchdown. Instead, Colt floated a wounded duck so far behind the in-stride target that Josh Cribbs had to instead make the highlight reel by stopping in his tracks and climbing over two defenders to haul in a circus catch way behind him, then somehow keep his feet in bounds.

            There’s so much to break down in the difference between Colt and Weeden, and I don’t want to go on a Colt bashing session, because I honestly like McCoy and I hope the Browns can get him to sign here long term. There are few non-starters in the NFL right now – and more than one starter – that I would prefer as my #2 quarterback. Honestly, I think Chips plays out the string here and finds a new NFL team in desperate need of a starter, willing to accept a journeyman. Honestly, I hope for his sake that he proves me, coaches, and talent evaluators wrong and blossoms into a great NFL QB, because he seems like a classy kid and he plays really hard. Nothing not to like. But from a talent standpoint, the world isn’t fair, and the Browns needed a guy who can make quick releases on intermediate throws and deliver the ball to the spot with ease and speed. And if you don’t think Weeden will be able to be an NFL starter long-term, that’s fine, but insinuating there’s no difference between Weeden and Cousins ONLY because Cousins threw a single deep ball that he needed to put somewhere within 10 feet of his receiver is frankly inane. If all we needed was a guy who can throw artillery shells 50 yards downfield into the general vicinity of wideouts, Derek Anderson would have won 3 Super Bowls with us already.

        • Believelander

          I actually just named my imaginary first-born child Kirk Cousins Jockstrap Flaatrud in the hopes that the Browns can get him.

    • dukem1

      Weeden is awful and Shurmur is a dunce.
      No argument here at all…just seems like good spot to place my total season nightmare prediction:
      Weeeden’s gonna get hurt somehow and McCoy will play and the Browns win a few games…
      Enjoy hell, hell enjoyers!
      (Edited for punctuation.)

      • Believelander

        Weeden is awful. We wasted our pick drafting him. It’s impossible he could ever be a good NFL quarterback. Colt McCoy is so much better.

        I’m so glad you NFL scouts/executives are giving us the skinny on how the Weeden pick is a bust 5 games into his pro career. Go drink some more beer/freebase some more crack and keep upchucking your insightful opinions.

  • bupalos

    3rd and 1 on the opponent 32, 2nd quarter, browns up by 7, O-line dominating.

    Shurmur: Let’s pull Richardson. Tell Weeds to throw the 5 yard out. That probably won’t result in 6 points for the other guys but rather a first down for us. If it’s not open, he can pull it down and throw a nice precise ball to one of the other players right there where the entire defense has just converged.

  • Cranky M

    This coaching staff needs to be fired yesterday.

    That interception at the end of the first half was terrible, but why the hell would they even pass in that situation?

    They were already in field goal range, the O-line was playing great, and they couldn’t tackle Richardson to save their lives. Worst case scenario, he gets stuffed and they kick a FG. Passing, obviously, can lead to an INT or a sack that knocks them out of FG range.

    Not only do they pass, which is idiotic, but they pull Richardson, which lets NY KNOW that they are going to pass. Rarely have i seen a worse coaching decision. Just unbelievable, absurdly stupid on every front. And the rest of the game from that point forward was just a comedy of errors. Trade up to draft a RB, who is your best offensive player, and pull him off the field to pass on 3rd and 1. Just terrible.

    • bupalos

      That play there was my biggest problem with the whole game and the one that has me ready to take whatever Frowns wants to dump on this.

      The thing you failed to mention is that the o-line was dominating, and the risk-reward there was preposterous. If you want to gun for the endzone, fine, but the 5 yard out is the WORST PLAY YOU CAN CALL.

      • Cranky M

        Nah, i said the O-line was playing great at that point.

        Like i said, it’s bad enough that you decide to pass in that situation. That’s already a terrible idea. But to take Richardson off the field and remove any doubt for the defense about whether you’re going to run or pass….that’s just indefensibly idiotic.

        They never showed a replay of that pass interference at the end of the half. Did anybody get a good look at it? Seemed like an odd call to me, considering that it was basically a hail mary and there were two defenders covering one receiver….

        • bupalos

          >>pine for gruden>>

          Please. No one’s pining for him. It’s a matter of alternatives. And at least he knows how to talk to the Ginger Cringer:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD7KIsg4Kh0&feature=player_detailpage#t=885s

          • Cranky M

            Fair enough, maybe you aren’t pining for him. But trust me, i hear and read a ton of Browns fans who do, and i don’t understand why.

          • Believelander

            They thought he’s be better than Mangini, which is highly debatable. Then they thought he’d be better than Shurmur, which is a much sounder theory.

        • bupalos

          >>>Nah, i said the O-line was playing great at that point.>>>

          You did. Sorry. The orange hats are flying around a little wildly now.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      Cranky, This may help….

      “There are three things that may happen when you throw a pass and two of them are bad”
      Woody Hayes

    • bupalos

      >>>>Gruden is awful. Why does everybody pine for Gruden? >>>

      If anyone is “pining” for Gruden, they’re idiots. I am RESIGNED to Gruden, because that is the best thing that Cap’n Fracksalot is likely to do. He’s guaranteed to be competent enough not to PREVENT you from wining a championship, He’s thoroughly mediocre, and knows how to tell weeden to stop being special needs.

    • dukem1

      Just pathetic… Richardson is averaging 5 ypc so they take him out with 3rd and one…to say nothing of the fact that there is a significant body of statistical evidence showing that going for it on 4th and short is not as much a risk as is thought…the odds are pretty good that with 3rd and one your gonna get a 1st down with a pretty good running back…the Browns should have picked up the 1st without much trouble…they could have run some time off, maybe a TD, the FG is still alive, and you go into the half with a lead and a head of steam vs the super bowl champs in THEIR house…but nnnoooooooo!
      Plus also super double pathetic bonus point: in real life my name is Pat.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        sorry about the name resembling that of a NFL coach that truly sucks,

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    The only thought that made me smile during this game today was the following:

    I was picturing bupalos and I sitting in the bleachers (think Major League) arguing about whether it was the pass or the run defense that sucked the most until Frowns chimes in and reminds us “who gives a shit, they suck.”

    Shurmur and his criminal misuse of Richardson (not to mention his absurd presser at the game) should make for 2 press conference involving Cleveland sports tomorrow morning.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    We can all agree that the 3rd and 1 call is Exhibit A for Shurmur.

    I present Exhibit B.

    3rd Quarter – 4th and 1 on our own 36 – Weeden puts head down and falls forward for 2 yards and 1st down.

    5 plays later and faced with a 4th and 5 on the NYG 45 he FUCKING PUNTS THE BALL BACK TO THEM after throwing a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 9.

    I don’t want to go into some type of sabremetric diatribe about why you should almost never bother punting in their territory but you went for it in your own less than 2 minutes ago you dipshit.

    • Defenestration

      Clearly attempting to ease into the YOLO offense with a smooth transition. The OAFL Offense works in the short term, but doesn’t result in points on the board. If he goes for it and and they get it, folks will rebel later when Phil Dawson attempts a FG from the opponents 49 on 3rd and 9. Long con. Shurmur knows this shit’s chess, it ain’t checkers.

      • Believelander

        Is the OAFL offense like the Offal Offense?

        • Defenestration

          Indeed. You should have seen the smile on my face when I realized that the acronym for my newly minted Oh and Four Luxury offense would be very close to butchered animal entrails AND would phonetically be close to awful. I’ve been quite proud of myself all afternoon/evening.

          • Believelander

            I’ll have 2 OAFL Waffles with cheese, please.

          • Defenestration

            Order them up while it’s still available. There are those who believe it will be taken off the menu and replaced with some Chili sometime around week 10.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        You sure that Shurmer knows the difference between Chess and Checkers?

        • Defenestration

          Please. The play-calling and personnel choices on 3rd and 1 clearly show his ability to double jump a rook and a bishop using a single pawn. Now, kindly king his checkmate and let the innovator of a (soon to be two if my predictions are correct) new offensive scheme work his magic. You don’t just stumble into the Luxury that is afforded to the play caller of an 0-4 team. You earn it. Through genius. And previously loosing four games out of four. I mean, the man called the old “throw it off a lineman, catch it and throw it into the endzone” play. You don’t do that without The Luxury. Can you imagine what he’ll be able to dial up next week? There is a whole ‘nother loss worth of Luxury he can lean on. The possibilities make my loins tingle with anticipation.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Hell, for next weeks game I might buy my wife a whip,sure to be less painful and end ‘Happy”,another Browns game won’t end “Happy”.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            Good for you Warb, but I have a feeling you have been wanting to do that for a long time, disirregardless of the Browns current plight.

          • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

            early comment of the week nominee.

    • bupalos

      Been covered. Glad we’re on the same page, though. Mangini was stupid and random on occasion, but he never THOUGHT about being as stupid and random as the Shurminator.

    • Believelander

      GRR, the percentages on converting 4th and 1 vs 4th and 5 are immensely different, and even though our receivers were hauling in the passes today, the dropsies had to be in the back of Shurmur’s mind on an obvious passing down.

      That said, the percentages of opposing scoring when you cough it up on your own 35 vs the opposing 45 have to be factored in, and there has to really be a huge difference, and when our defense couldn’t stop a tape recorder much less an NFL offense, I agree that I would have gone for it.

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        I don’t think there really is that much of a difference. Granted I spend way too much time looking at graphs and stats…

        Still had 6.9 yards per play today which is like the Greatest Show on Turf compared to last season.

        The bigger issue here is the defense.

        http://live.advancednflstats.com/index.php?gameid1=2012100703

      • bupalos

        Yeah, I’m fine with it if he punts both or goes for both. There is a rationale behind either of those scenarios. There is no rationale behind what he did. I mean, there is one, but it isn’t a football rationale.

        • Believelander

          To clarify, I would normally disagree, but when you multiply out the two critical factors at play on any decision to go on 4th down – scoring percentages based on starting field position if you fail to convert, multiplied by your percentage of converting – it nets you the probability of your opponent scoring off your decision to go for it. I agree mainly because the risk of going for it at your own 36 (outer edge of field goal range) puts the scoring risk if you fail near 100%. So even with the low chance of success and good field position for your opponent in that second situation, the risk profiles had to really be about the same.

          Oh well.

          • bupalos

            Yeah there’s no question 4th and 1 on your own 36 is a bad proposition by the numbers. It only make sense if you are adopting the rationale that the game is over if you don’t score that drive. But then you reverse that on the next call. It doesn’t come close to making sense.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      The exact point when I knew the game was over is your exhibit B

  • actovegin1armstrong

    RG3 was out with a concussion, perhaps it was a good thing to draft two QB’s.
    However, it is odd for a rookie QB to have a rookie QB back-up.
    I hope that I am incorrect and that RG3 has a long and injury free career, but the reason I was so dead set against the Browns giving away all of their first round picks for a decade to draft him was because he is not very elusive, he is fast, but he takes a lot of hits. It may only take a concussion or two to end, or drastically change his career.
    “The mind is a terrible thing.”

    • bupalos

      I didn’t think the hits he took had anything to do with that thing that makes everyone think he is a running QB though.

      I mean, if a QB that had a different melatonin count than he does got hit sliding 2 yards behind the line would you be all like “yeah that’s what happens to “running” quarterbacks?”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfFW-Yezv0k

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Bupa, it has nothing to do with his respective melatonin, Steve Young was the fastest QB I have ever seen and he is severely lacking in melatonin.
        Steve Young’s carreer was also ended because he suffered from so many head injuries and Young at least had some ability to avoid getting hit.
        RG3 can make a move or two and be a little bit elusive, but he is certainly not Barry Sanders.
        He runs fast then he gets hit hard, melatonin notwithstanding.

        • Believelander

          Steve Young was fast for a QB but he wasn’t anywhere near as fast as RG3 or some of the other epic scramblers in history. Nowhere near as fast as Cam Newton or Terrelle Pryor, or even The Tebow in the open field. BTW, OH MY GOD PLEASE DUMPSTER FIRE RAIDERS CAN YOU PLEASE PUT IN TERRELLE PRYOR SO I CAN BUY NFL SUNDAY TICKET JUST TO WATCH THE RAIDERS?

  • ChuckKoz

    richardson is awesome.

    they should just shut him down for like 4 years until they may be good.

    • Believelander

      Yeah at this point in the season, a team looking to the future should actually go back to the 15-20ish touches per game for Richardson (read: not 15 carries for the whole run game – pound the damn rock, Pat). Supplement him with a lot of Ogbie. Continue to let him get game experience and learn his craft but keep his work load light for future seasons when we have a realistic shot of accomplishing something.

      Unfortunately, a coaching staff desperate to keep their jobs will probably home in more and more on giving piles of touches to their best weapon to enhance their chances of getting a few signature wins to put on their resume to the new owner.

      Fortunately, if we can get back to being down early and often, the need to go to a high-flight attack might save Richardson’s wear and tear – keeping him healthy by the sheer magnitude of our badnitude.

  • bupalos

    Orange hats ALL OVER THIS BOARD. This is how it’s supposed to look!!

    • actovegin1armstrong

      Bupa,
      Your comments during the game are very entertaining.
      When the Browns had the lead I could picture you swelling up with pride. I expected a bursting Bupa if they continued and actually won.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        While I was watching the game,those 14points were a mirage,you see it in the distance,but the closer you get to it you realize it’s not whats really going on. Granted it was really good natured for the Giants to spot us 14 before they and Shurmer crushed the hope of us,you know,actually winning, Also as a complete aside I have that stupid whistle song in my head and can’t get rid of it…also good parody out there about the replacement refs.

  • Cranky M

    Did anybody get a good look at the pass interference at the end of the first half? They didn’t show a replay, but it seemed like an odd call to me. It was basically a Hail Mary, and there were two defenders down there covering one receiver. I rarely ever see pass interference called in that scenario, was just curious as to how blatant it actually was.

    The end of the first half was a comedy of errors. I know that nobody likes to criticize Cribbs, but…can we acknowledge that, with the new kick-off rules, he has hurt the team far more than he has helped them? How many times has he tried to return a kick from 8 yards deep only to be stopped well short of the 20? Yeah, he had one nice return, but i would rather him just take touchbacks and not risk fumbling or getting stopped short of the 20. Not to mention the potential for holding and block-inthe-back calls on every return.

    • Believelander

      Cranky: every return squad in the NFL is returning balls from 8 yards deep in the end zone as long as they can get behind it and accelerate into the ball. Because the new kickoff from 35 rule hasn’t made the game better or safer, it’s just moved the returns back 5 yards. The reason they do this is because you’ll take a couple of drives starting between the 15-19 area for the chance of having even one drive go yard or down to the opposing 30 yard line. I find it a bit curious that you don’t mention that the Giants doing the exact same thing all game long and getting buried repeatedly inside their own 15 by the Browns.

      In summation, Josh Cribbs is one of the top returners in football in kickoff return average, and gets plenty of balls across the 25. He put a few past our own 30, and one to the opponent’s 30. He is not the problem with this team (although his uncharacteristic fumble on what was setting up to be another great return cost us dearly).

      And also, nobody could get a look at that PI because of ‘The Shield’. The real refs are back which means the entire NFL machine from the field to the TV networks cover up a lot of the controversial stuff like that, especially when the call goes against their prime time team. They didn’t have any problems replaying Sheldon Brown’s PI he escaped with on the Usama Young INT, or commenting on it for 10 minutes straight instead of football. But you have to hedge in case the Browns beat the Giants so everyone can waah waah that the Giants got screwed and could never actually lose to mere mortals from Cleveland. ;)

  • Beeej

    I think we can all take consolation in knowing that a huge pile of s*^t often makes the best fertilizer. #bikiface

    • Believelander

      Not if they’re the Jets. If they’re the Jets, that pile of fertilizer causes the tomato plants it fertilizing to bear burning dumpsters full of liquid radioactive sludge instead of tomatoes. I can’t f***ing wait to watch tomorrow night’s game. If they win I will vote for Mitt Romney.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        Come on,there is never a reason to vote for Mitt,even if you ARE a Republican.

        • Believelander

          It was that or eating my shorts, and I like my shorts. This country is f***ed no matter who we elect President.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Where is the “do not like” button?
        Please Believe, keep some perspective, it is only a game.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    “Unfortunately this business at times and even though it wasn’t the only factor, I want to win here. We want to win here in Cleveland and we did not win enough games this year.”

    Remember the good old days Mike when we went 5-11 and had teams short on talent that were well coached and played mistake free football.

    5 wins. Those were the good old days.

    I am going to cry myself to sleep now picturing an offense with Mangini as the Coach and Vickers escorting Trent to 2000 yards.

    • Believelander

      OMG Richardson + Vickers. I just had a moment. Just think, our line sucked way worse then than it does now and Peyton Hillis chipped out 1200 yards with Vickers in front of him. Richardson+Vickers+better line+quarterback who forces defenses to respect deep ball because he can actually complete passes. OMG. OMG.

      OMG.

  • Believelander

    Things to like from this game:

    Shurmur/Chilly’s offense showed promise at points in the game. There were literally 0 minutes of 2011 where you could say Pat Shurmur’s offense showed promise. Whether it’s Childress’s influence, the artillery piece drafted for them, or a combination of the two, they take shots down field early and often, which leads me to my next point -

    Brandon Weeden is starting to hit on the long intermediate and deep routes. There are things you can ask this guy to do that you can’t ask Colt to do. The more I look back at old Colt footage, the more I see him having to really gear up to hit targets that Weeden delivers the ball to without effort. He still needs to be a little more accurate on the move. Speaking of on the move -

    The Browns O-Line didn’t allow a sack in a game where we had to throw a lot of passes. I’m not sure how many times Weeden got knocked down, but if someone told me zero I wouldn’t be surprised. The only criticism of the pass blocking is that I really felt our line was responsible for most/all of Weeden’s tipped passes – while they didn’t allow pressure, they gave up ground and didn’t keep the heads of the defensive linemen down. Some of these Giants D-linemen were standing up looking for passes to tip. If a guy does that, blast him on his ass. Building off that, the initial hit the Giants were getting off the snap hurt us in the run game. Richardson had guys touching him in the backfield way too much. That said, as the line hopefully improves, this line has to be really good at pass blocking in a pass-first system, so I hope that’s a sign of things to come. Speaking of a pass-first system,

    Josh Gordon had 2 catches for like 700 yards and two touchdowns. On both those catches, he really showed why the Browns made sure to get him – he came off the line with a pretty standard release, then at about 10 yards turned on the jets and dusted the Giants secondary. Both plays had opposing safeties out of position, but with a lot of guys, you can make up for that.
    And oh boy did Weeden put it on the money both times – it can’t be understated in 1000 words how important it is to have a QB who can neatly plunk the football down in front of Gordon on that first TD, or deliver the ball on a rope on the second one. Gordon had to slow down about one half a step to catch the first TD, but he basically caught it at full speed. On the second, the pass arriving just a hair later would have gotten it knocked down or picked.
    Gordon’s showing he has the natural hands to pluck the football out of the air, although he did have one drop on a ball behind him. Even on that drop, he showed solid body control to turn himself against his momentum to get his hands where they needed to be, and it was a 50 mph laser thrown in the rain, so I’m not really bagging on him for that. One thing – I don’t think he is running his short and intermediate routes very well at all yet. Of Weeden’s 13 incompletions, at least 6 were tipped balls (and 1 completion was too). Weeds was zinging the ball accurately all day, but on both of his memorable misses to Gordon – a 2nd and short inside the red zone and the long INT – the ball was waaay behind the receiver. Some of that is on the passer, but I’m not 100% convinced Gordon was quite where he needed to be.

    Things not to like about this game:

    Um, our defense blew most of the gmae. The Giants have sucked at running the football and have been sketchy at best in pass protection – while Manning hasn’t been sacked a ton, he’s been getting put off his spot a lot through the first four games. We made sure they didn’t have either of those problems. They really got lucky on both our turnovers – the Giants caused their own first fumble and Sheldon Brown interfered SO BAD on the INT – but I guess at least they forced those turnovers. Sheldon Brown really needs to be turned around to play safety, or moved into the nickel-slot against smaller/slower guys he can press hard at the line. He’s past the point where he can man cover. Let Patterson, Skrine, or Trevin Wade get reps across from Haden when he comes back next week. I will say that the Browns tenuous grasp of the thing called defense collapsed after Dimitri Patterson went out with an ankle twist – he’s gotta be a better option than Brown, even with the beating he got from Anquain Boldin last week.

    Um, our defense blew most of the game. And oh yeah, Dimitri Patterson and D’Qwell Jackson got hurt. If we thought we’d seen a Road Warrior post-apocalyptic wasteland with nobody in sight for miles where the camera was pointed before DQ52 went out, the bomb dropped the second he waddled dizzy off the field. I think we had like 1 meaningful defensive possession afterwards.

    Weeden did throw 2 picks. Gotta get better at that. Guy’s a rookie – not belaboring this point.

    Browns fans are calling for Weeden to be benched/run through a wood chipper. Shut up. This is why we can’t have nice things.

    Back to our defense sucking, there was a noteworthy absence of anything resembling tackling for much of the game. Ahmad Bradshaw wouldn’t have looked so good if guys had just wrapped up on many plays where they chose not to wrap up, instead running into a guy with a low center of gravity only to fall down and watch him pinball forward for 8-15 yard rippers. Losing tackle machine DQ52 probably hurts here, but these young linebackers need to emulate him.

    Pat Shurmur’s game management was, at times…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….well I’m not sure what it was. A giant 10 gallon brass ball call to go on 4th and 1 at your own 36 precedes a meek punt on 4th and 5 at the opposing 45. There’s a good chance this punt nets you less than 30 yards. You’re 5 yards out of Phil Dawson’s max range. Go find that set of coconuts you just grew. Other decisions made me scratch my head, but – I can’t believe I’m writing this – I mostly felt he put together a solid coaching game (although the shittiness of the defense took a lot of pressure decisions out of his hands). For example, his time out management was better and he seems to be paying attention to the footballing more than his play sheet. A season ago, I don’t think he can be counted on to call time out on a critical down/distance to avoid delay of game. This probably won’t save his job, but it’s progress, and that’s good no matter what.

    The referees were cravenly blowing the Giants for 4 quarters of football. For the number of penalties called on the Browns, there might have been an all-time broadcasting record set for the fewest Browns penalties replayed on the air. After the first Buster Skrine PI call that gave the Giants a big first down, they replayed it and the announcers just kind of watched it and didn’t say anything. The silence was deafening. The contact was completely incidental and Skrine beat the receiver badly for that deflection. Instead of 3rd and 11, 1st and 10. These things can’t be understated. There was also the gratuity score with 4 seconds on the clock in the second – no visible interference and no replay.

    The announcers were cravenly blowing the refs for most of the game. The refs suck. So do you.

    We lost badly after being up 14-0. Nobody expected the Browns to win this one or really be in it, but then they got into it, and it makes it frustrating how it ended up.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      When you said “things to like” I expected 4 words.

      • Some Guy

        Wait. Rye old fashioned is only 3 words.

    • Some Guy

      >>> Um, our defense blew most of the game. And oh yeah, Dimitri Patterson and D’Qwell Jackson got hurt.

      Ward and Young were missing tackles all day too, just a really bad show from the secondary.

    • Bryan

      Total agreement. I really liked a lot from this game on the offensive side of the ball. Defense was horrific.

  • Believelander

    So remember the little trailer trashy incident in Cleveland where our wonderful wasted fans at Cleveland Browns stadium cheered for Derek Anderson getting hurt to put in Brady Quinn? Apparently, the allure of Quinn’s biceps and incredibly poor quarterback play brings out the worst in all human beings. Chiefs fans at Arrowhead today cheered when quarterback Matt Cassell got taken out of the game with a head injury in the fourth quarter. Here’s what Eric Winston, right tackle recently signed with the Chiefs, had to say:

    http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/10/7/3470224/eric-winston-quotes-matt-cassel-injury-fans-cheering

    Cleveland is a jilted angry bitter fan base at times, and there’s really nothing to say we don’t have a right. But considering this example of a pro player going off the chain at his fan base puts in perspective how players feel about events like this. I for one agree with Eric Winston, and I wonder how incidents like the one in Cleveland 4 years ago affect the decisions of players to come play in a jilted, angry, bitter sports town like Cleveland.

  • rgrunds

    Um, FrOrange. I gave this site to Rod of Disaster last week. Please desist publication unless you can show written authorization from Rod.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    Trent had only 17 carries. No excuse for that, unless the knee is still an issue. Rest the already thin defense, and keep Eli off the field as much as possible.

    • actovegin1armstrong

      Shall we make it a “grass roots campaign”?
      CLTIL should be the next Browns head coach.
      Rod’o as O-Coordinator
      Biki shall be the Minister of Defense (he has the amazing tenacity to defend his oftentimes implausible positions.)
      P-4, will be the Quarterback coach, well…. for obvious reasons.
      We should put this in front of Frack Daddy right now.

      • CleveLandThatILove

        Acto as substance police for our wayward corners.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          I shall confiscate everything.

  • DarkwingDork

    Bernie Kosar missed half his passes his rookie season. And we all know what a terrible quarterback he ended up being.

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