Stay assy, San Diego: Reeling Chargers out-Browns Browns for 7-6 loss in slopfest

by Cleveland Frowns on October 29, 2012

“[O]bviously we cannot play as a team. We appear to not be able to handle adversity or finish games. Individual and team confidence appears to be going south … a team going in the wrong direction fast.”Chargers GM A. J. Smith, a week before the Chargers lost to the Browns

“When will Norv Turner be fired? No more if. Can’t be.”Kevin Acee, San Diego Union-Times

“I’ve always been a big fan of Norv Turner. I think he gets it. I think he does an outstanding job.”Pat Shurmur

“It was interesting, before the game I asked those guys, I said, ‘Let’s go for three hours and 15 minutes and just play this thing like a bunch of kids playing in the rain.’ I think they did that.” — Shurmur

—————

A badly managed NFL roster on the downswing came to the North Coast yesterday to face a badly managed NFL roster on the upswing, and naturally the team facing more pressure to win ended up losing 7-6 in one of the ugliest games that will be played in the league this season.

The Chargers came to town reeling with their preseason status as highly dubitable playoff contenders on life support after back-to-back losses in which they were outscored 56-7 in the second half. With San Diego GM A.J. Smith liable to go Full Savage at any moment, and head coach Norv Turner’s perennial hot seat engulfed in roaring flames, it all serves as an especially timely reminder for Browns Nation. There’s winning a bumfight here and there, and there’s beating good teams consistently when they all come in gunning for you. Even a franchise that manages to load up a roster with as much Pro Bowl talent as any other team in the league on both sides of the ball, including a quarterback that can make all the throws and fill up the stat sheet so that he makes four Pro Bowls himself, still isn’t guaranteed to make it to the Super Bowl or even out of the divisional round more than once in five playoff runs.

Of course, the Browns have a long way to go before they catch up with the staggering seventeen Pro-Bowlers and eleven multiple Pro-Bowlers who’ve played for the Chargers since 2005, but it’s still something to think about. Especially after watching a young and hungry Browns offense loaded with seven healthy first-and-second round picks and one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, under the guidance of a full complement of West Coast Offense gurus, come out against a Chargers defense that had been dumpster babied by every decent offense it had faced, and score one touchdown before punting on every single possession for the rest of the game.

Right, the weather was bad. Which we’re not hearing much about amidst all the excitement in Browns shilldom over the performance of the defense in holding the NFL’s 29th ranked offense to a mere six points. Of special note is that not only did the Chargers make clear going into yesterday that their game plan would be to “run and run,” but on every drive of the second half except for the final 2-minute drill, with the possible exception of one second-down screen pass, the Chargers called a running play on every single first and second down that they faced. It was pure genius.

Of course, it helped that Philip Rivers couldn’t come within ten yards of his receivers for most of the day. Yet the Browns still needed a wide open Bobby Meachem to drop a sure touchdown pass that was laid in his breadbasket, and for San Diego safety Atari Bigby to do the same with a sure pick-six on one of countless Brandon Weeden throws that bounced off of linemen. But that’s just how the Curse of Wahoo does its work to make sure the Browns don’t end up with anyone especially useful next April.

Anyway, a win is a win, which all else equal is better than a loss. But we’re talking about 2-6 on the way to 4-12, 5-11 tops, and excitable beat writers and talk show hosts should at least be able to understand that some wins are more encouraging than others.

Last season, three of the Browns’ four wins came against teams that fired their head coach by the end of the season for what must be a league record for a four-win team. With Norv thusly dispatched, and the likes of Romeo Crennel, Jason Garrett, and Dennis Allen still on the slate, new heights are assuredly within reach for these young Browns.

—————

GAME NOTES:

–Trent Richardson battled and challenged for 122 yards and a touchdown on 24 carries (5.1 avg).

–Brandon Weeden struggled to complete just above a third of his passes to finish 11/27 for 129 yards, no touchdowns, no picks, a 55.9 rating and a 18.4 QBR. Weeden’s 19.5 QBR remains the worst in the league by a mile, with Chargers QB Philip Rivers clocking in at third worst with a 36.8.

The Chargers are 0-11 in their last 11 games in which they’ve taken the ball on their final drive with a chance to tie or take the lead.

–Shurmurball Play of the Day: 2nd-and-4 at the San Diego 40 after a recovered Chargers fumble and a 6-yard run off tackle by Richardson, a double-reverse from Josh Cribbs to Travis Benjamin that fooled no one on the San Diego defense and was fumbled for a loss of 20 yards. A “nightmare play” as described by Rich Gannon, calling the game for CBS.

–Game ball to whichever Browns players wouldn’t let Shurmur give them a day off today. Smart.

  • http://twitter.com/musicman06 Chris Music

    I really hope Romeo survives until December 9th…

    http://deadspin.com/5955830/

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Lordy. I guess after having read the KC Star’s report on Pioli and Hunt in January http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/14/3371495/arrowhead-anxiety-turnover-off.htmlno level of dumpster fire-dom coming out of Arrowhead should surprise us.

    • BIKI024

      man, we can’t lose to KC. 5 carries for Jamaal Charles?? WTF DABES!?!?!

      • Believelander

        This seems bizarre. Maybe Charles is hurt? I can’t begin to fathom why any OC would do this, including Pat Shurmur.

        • BIKI024

          decent rush stats overall, 22 carries for 104 yards.. but Cassel had most attempts (7). i was glancing at the game every now and then but wasn’t paying attention enough to get a feel for the flow of the game. DABES!

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Really? I can’t understand why either,but Shurmur has done that shit before both this season and last. I will say I am unsure it was ever as low as 5 carries for the feature back,but it wouldn’t surprise me considering he often abandons the run when it’s working…from this season I will just point out the Giants game.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    For those who didn’t see it, here’s Meachem’s drop, along with T.J. Ward covering him like a blanket.

    (was buried in yesterday’s post, worth a repost I think.)

    http://cjzero.com/gifs/ChargersDerp.gif

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    Rocking my Eric Zeier T-shirt out here in SD after the Browns won was the equivalent to holding a smaller plate of poo and making sure everyone knew I liked my smaller plate.

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      If the time comes and we meet somewhere you wear the Zeier shirt and I wear the Chiaverini jersey and we have the saddest Browns photo in the history of the world.

      • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

        Zubaz too

      • 910Derp

        It’s not the saddest until I photobomb you guys in my Couch jersey.

  • BIKI024

    other noteworthy stats:

    Chargers defense ranked 9th in league in yards allowed and points allowed.

    Chargers run defense was 1st in the league heading into the game yesterday, allowing only 71.1 yards per game, we put up 133, not too shabby.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      You’re right, Biki. That’s a Hall of Fame defense that’s just accidentally been lit up by every good quarterback that it’s faced, including to the tune of 56-7 in its last two second halves. It’s no wonder the Browns punted 46 times yesterday. Good stats.

    • Believelander

      The Chargers are a middling inconsistent defense, much like they’re a middling inconsistent team. Their defensive numbers are propped up by the strength of their competition – Kansas City, Oakland, Tennessee, and Cleveland have sufficiently poor overall offense to hide the fact that the 3 good offenses they faced (Peyton Manningface, Drew Brees, and Matt Ryan) carved them up them like a fat Christmas ham.

      • BIKI024

        good grief, i never said they were the 1985 Bears. but you have to give credit to our offensive line and obviously Trent for nearly doubling what they allow on the ground, which was #1 in the NFL at 77 yards per game. KC, Oak, and Ten have some of the best running backs in the game. that’s all i said. but of course no credit can be given to the Browns around here, any success they have is due to how horrible, absolutely horrible the opposition is.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          Didn’t the Browns have statistically a great defense last year,specifically in pass defense? So stats are in this league often misleading, last year teams didn’t have to pass to beat us,this year teams didn’t have to run to beat the Chargers. We have seen this year that our pass defense was inflated,probably ridiculously high,since teams ran it down our throat last year, Haden does make a difference but not that much of one against good teams anyway.

        • Believelander

          That’s Pete’s shtick, not mine. I just wasn’t exceedingly impressed with our defense. They bent but didn’t break, which is good, except they broke a few times and San Diego shit their pants, such as on the Meachem WTF drop. They were not impressive against the run against a team that doesn’t run the ball well. I saw some bits I liked, but there were a lot of red flags yesterday where Rivers missed wide open completions, and Meachem and Gates dropped wide open completions. All that said, Jauron called a vanilla defensive game that funneled the Chargers into keeping everything in front of the Browns, and it was -JUST- enough to squeak out clean with a win.

          I thoroughly enjoyed watching the game, too. The entire thing was very terse. Weeden made a few good throws that didn’t get completed such as a Gordon drop in the end zone (going to the ground covered tightly, not really his fault) and just a hair of an overthrow to Ben Watson for a TD that the wind might have carried a bit. He nailed Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon in stride a few times, letting them gobble up some YAC and get first downs. Greg Little had a drop but it didn’t cost us the game.

          At the end of the day, there are positives and negatives, which goes to illustrate that this is a franchise at a fork in the road. Either they will take the correct fork with their off-season decisions and start down the road to becoming a very good, talented team, or they will take the wrong fork and slide back into mediocrity like they have every time previous. But they’re far from a talented roster yet – that requires a depth of talent, and we have none. There’s a whole lot of work to be done before we can know if any of these guys – Weeden, Gordon, Little, Richardson, Cameron, Schwartz – will be successful NFL players.

          I temper my enthusiasm, often to dilution. Pete seems to douse his in offal and wroth. You watch the Jets. We all have our flaws.

          • BIKI024

            i watch the jets as well as pretty much every other team in the NFL, remember I’m SUPERFAN

          • Believelander

            Better a superfan than a Jets fan.

        • Drumbiker

          The amount of negativity around here does force me to exercise my 28th Amendment Right To Browse Elsewhere when it gets too thick, for sure.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            THE CHARGERS BLOW.

          • Drumbiker

            Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. But…..

            I believe we as Browns fans have been beaten down by the putrid excuse for football we’ve seen since ’99 to the point that we’ve forgotten even how to appreciate a win. It’s always “yeah, they won – but….” followed by proclamations of the other teams ineptitude being greater than ours that day, or “how lucky we got”.

            I think Browns fans have forgotten that one day we’ll have an 11 win season. And tou know what? 3 or four of those wins might just be of then”ugly” variety. And those are the three that will win us the division.

            Stop and smell the roses Frownie, or at least in this case, the turd by the side of the road. I’ve got to imagine even tou can appreciate a good, healthy dump once in a while.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            I appreciate your viewpoint but I’ll start swallowing the turds when there’s some good stuff to choke them down with.

  • Bryan

    I loved that quote from the presser where Shurmur said he Norv “always does an outstanding job.” Shurmur also mentioned how Norv was buddies with his Uncle, and how they all used to hang out. So basically Shurmur is well connected to a dying brand of NFL football that peaked in the 90’s.

    Still love Weeden. Conditions were impossible yesterday for throwing. That is a fact. It doesn’t make much sense to judge QB play against normal standards…. Weeden will be fine.

    And unlike others, I agree the D’s performance is being over-hyped a lot. They made some big plays when they needed too, but they consistently got beat on running plays and were saved numerous times by conditions that neutered a dangerous QB. SD had a ton of 3rd and short situations that could have been problematic if there wasn’t 40 mph winds and a mud/rain soaked ball.

    • BIKI024

      hopefully the run defense will improve getting Rubin AND Big Phil Taylor back.. nice to see how well the dline is playing with rotation of mostly 1st and 2nd year guys..

      • ClevelandFrowns

        Yup. Nice to see how well the 29th ranked defense in the league is playing.

        • BIKI024

          yes, and what are they ranked over the past 3 games? much improved with Haden back

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            come on now Biki, yes we are doing better…but our competition hasn’t been exactly good right?

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      weeden throws a lovely tight spiral. i noticed that yesterday. no ducks.

      otoh, usama young. you suck. from the dropping of rivers’ ducks to your non-wrapping-up non-hitting. your precious white knee socks make you look like a japanese school girl and you play as such.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        Come on at least Japanese school girls look good, no reason to tar them with the brush of Usama Young.

      • Believelander

        If anime TV shows are any indication, Usama Young would hit Philip Rivers in the face with a guitar wielded like an axe or some other such chicanery.

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          yeah but in anime he/she’d look better doing it.

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          hijinks, tomfoolery, shenanigans.

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      As one of the vice presidents of the Weeden fan club I thought he was fine yesterday. He did not turn the ball over. He was only sacked once. He threw the ball away when he had to. The batted balls continue to be a problem but that is more a factor of a pocket passer having great protection.

      Shurmur is a dipshit.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        Considering the amount of passes he seems(have no stats to talk about going by eyes only) to have batted down it would seem he is throwing balls low considering his height,at least lowish,not to bring up Colt as lets start him…but he never had the same issue(maybe because he was shorter,I don’t know). I would think this is correctiable…but shouldn’t it have been corrected by 8 games into the season? I will blame Weedon for that tendancy of throwing low over the line…but it not being corrected I blame on the coaches.

        • Believelander

          Don’t know if you can say Weeden is throwing the ball low. If he raises the trajectory of the throw to clear the line by a greater margin, he is forced to take a bit off the throw. It also travels a longer arc. The result is the ball takes longer to arrive.

          Weeden’s delivery is very compact, with no extraneous moving parts, and prototypical of a proper NFL qb delivery. His release time is very good. If his arm slot, mechanics, or release time were concerns, I might agree with you, but they’re not, and I would say the main reason McCoy didn’t have issues with batted balls was a) his arm wasn’t 100% yet last season and he was still lobbing floaters just to get the distance he needed, and b) McCoy is a natural scrambler, and didn’t spend near as much time in the pocket as Weeden.

          If you look at our offensive line’s atrocious run blocking, where no matter the RB, there are few holes and the back is constantly getting hit in the backfield, that speaks to getting blown off your spots instead of blowing the defenders back, out, wherever you need to move them to to create a hole. The world-class predictability of our 1983 Walsh Coast offense probably contributes, too. Interestingly, Spiro actually commented during the game on a Weeden flat pass that got tipped horridly that Mitchell Schwartz lunged back really far into his set off the snap, and that he had to know it was a 3-step drop with a hot route going over him and that he needed to clear the defender away from that throwing lane. Instead he let the defender right into it.

          Oh, and reason c) McCoy wasn’t getting as many passes batted: defenders were having a hard time batting Colt’s throws when they were diving at his chest.

          Oh, and scroll to Chris M’s link in these comments linking a GIF of Robert Meachem’s awful drop. While we’re on the topic of QBs with outright shitty mechanics and a terrible low arm slot, watch the way Philip Rivers slings the football. That’s what he does on every throw. While impressive he can make a football travel that far while throwing like that, his mechanics make me want to punch his high school QB coach directly in his redneck face.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            Not sure I agree wih your premise on the batted passes,though it seems almost logical….but if so explain how Kosar avoided passes batted down? Explain why since 1978(the year I started watching football and not just playing) I have never seen,and I mean ever seen a QB have so many passes batted down in 34 years of watching football. You adjust your throw if it’s an issue,or coaches make you adjust it. Unfourtunately niether is happening. Don’t make excuses for the boy..he has to see there is a problem,I would rather see completions than balls batted/tipped at the line of scrimage that get our recievers mauled…and could be intercepted. I tend to think at least half of batted/tipped balls should be intercepted…it’s why they practice the tip drill you know. Plus you say Weedon,or any QB that changes his throw/arc does so by choice or doesn’t change it..thought he had a strong arm and all so it shouldn’t matter if he IS as good as so many say he is…still I do blame it more on coaching/habits than his skill.

        • GrandRapidsRustlers

          I would love to see Rod or Dan talk about the batted pass issue.

          I was always under the impression that the blame for a batted pass was in this order:

          1. Play Design
          2. Offensive Lineman
          3. QB

          We are throwing a ton of short slants and outs…you would think the play design would allow for that window and if it does not making sure the lineman would cut the defender.

    • Believelander

      The West Coast Offense isn’t dying. The West Coast Offense was invented by Paul Brown, with the help of Bill Walsh. Then Bill Walsh updated the West Coast into what it became in the 80s and into the 90s. Then Peyton Manning updated it into what it became in the 2000s for the Colts. By that time, the 80s-90s WCO was dying a slow death in Seattle, gasping along against atrocious divisional competition. The Saints and Packers have since re-imagined Peyton Manning’s WCO, which Peyton Manning has since added to.

      So if you mean specifically the Bill Walshian brand of the WCO, you’re dead on, it’s deader than a doornail. But the system itself, just another brainchild of Paul Brown (like modern football itself) is alive and well through its little systematic children.

  • Cranky M

    For what it’s worth, i recently read an article where the guy who created Total QBR said that it isn’t accurate in the short-term. He said you need at least a full season to come to a semi-accurate conclusion, and even that is iffy. A ton of factors, each of which can lead to a statistical error. He said he thinks all of the potential errors will just “wash out” over the course of the long-term.

    • ClevelandFrowns

      Mmm-hmm.

      • Cranky M

        Would you like me to post the link? It’s not as if i’m making this up….

        • ClevelandFrowns

          What are you waiting for, Draft Day?

          • Cranky M

            For a full season. You know, like the guy who created the statistic SAYS to do. When he explicitly states that it isn’t accurate in less than a full season, what is the purpose of citing it after 7 weeks?

            Although, personally, i won;t even pay attention to it after a full season. Like i said before, any statistic that applies a numerical value to something completely imaginary and subjective like “clutch,” i have a hard time taking it seriously.

          • ClevelandFrowns

            That’s actually not what he says but I really don’t care to argue with you about this anymore.

          • Cranky M

            Who’s trying to argue? I’m pointing out that the guy said you “need the long run” to make an accurate assessment with his statistic.

            You never had any sort of reply to my old post where i compared Weeden and Luck’s stats, minus the worst game each has played. Weeden’s QB rating was 6 points higher. Any thoughts on that? Don’t you find it encouraging?

            I think it’s obvious that he hasn’t played nearly so bad as to be the worst QB in the league. I’m not sure how that’s even debatable.

            Any statistic that doesn’t have Blaine Gabbert ranked as the worst QB in the league simply can’t be accurate, can it?

          • BIKI024

            Brady Quinn is way WAY worse than Gabbert.. my main man Blaine helped me cover against the Pack yesterday, had them within 6 late in the 4th quarter..

          • Believelander

            While true, Biki, Quinn’s sample size is far too small to matter.

        • Cranky M

          A few select quotes…

          Guy who created it:
          “(I)t’s going to be flawed, but you have to accept that…Every time you’re factoring something in, you’re bringing in a possible source of error…(A) lot of these immeasurables are uncorrelated with what you’re trying to get at. So sometimes it will be the case that a quarterback did make an awesome, exceptionally accurate throw, and sometimes it will be the receiver [who made a big play happen], but on average it’s going to wash out in the long run. That’s why you need the long run.”

          Author of article:
          “Without a doubt, the most controversial aspect of QBR is the Clutch Index, which weights every play according to the situation’s import…It’s also not necessarily a defensible concept. If Quarterback A plays in a blowout, and Quarterback B puts up identical stats as Quarterback A but does so in a close victory that features a fourth quarter comeback, Quarterback B will have the better QBR….But nobody knows how ESPN defines a clutch situation or how it’s weighted.”

          All i’m saying is, even the guy who made it said it’s a long-term tool, and 7 games is not even close to his own definition of long-term. Also factor in the absurdly huge disparity between QB rating and Total QBR….

          • ClevelandFrowns

            So a long term measurement of a statistic is more useful than a short term measurement. Stop the presses.

            Also, here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

          • Believelander

            No, a short term usage of QBR is useless.

            And short OR long-term use of QBR is useless for determining how good a QB is. Meaningless. Poppycock. Hogwash. Shit.

            Any actual analytical value of QBR has to do with how much of a contributor a QB was to his team winning any game (win or lose) which has overwhelmingly more to do with the aggregate of the other 83 active players than the QB himself.

          • nj0

            I think QBR is nonsense too, but what I find hilarious in all this is even QB rating puts Weeden at 32 out of 33, 31st in YAA, 32 in completion percentage, 28 in TD%, 25 in INT%….

            I think he has potential and I’m willing to give him time, but he has not performed well from a statistical POV. Not surprised QBR comes to the same conclusion.

        • Cranky M

          Also, please don’t ban me again. Just pointing out what the guy who made it said….

    • Believelander

      Cranky: that’s a very good honest and humble thing for a stat guy to say. The truth is, passer rating is garbage over a small sample size too.

      The main reason I don’t think large aggregate samples of ‘QBR’ is because there are SO many factors involved in calculating large-sample ‘QBR’ that get averaged against a QB. The fact that the QB’s team’s defense got torched for 4 TDs in the first half of game X affects his ‘QBR’ which in turn drags down his average while having nothing to do with him.

      Over huge sample sizes like career, you could suggest it would wash out, but honestly, passer rating accomplishes this already, so I’m not sure what the value of QBR is, since it doesn’t really analyze how good a QB is in the first place.

      • Cranky M

        The whole idea that everything will “wash out” seems ridiculous to me. if your statistic is so rife with potential errors that you basically have to cross your fingers and hope for it to “wash out” over the long term, then your statistic is probably garbage.

        My main issue is still the “clutch” factor. I have yet to see anybody post a reasonable explanation as to why it makes sense to quantify something with a numerical value when that something is completely unquantifiable/imaginary/arbitrary. But that might just be because there IS no reasonable defense of such a thing.

        I fail to see how a statistic can be a precise measure of ANYTHING when it relies upon a numerical value for a completely imaginary and intangible concept. They may as well add in a value for how many magical pixies cross the path of the football on any given throw. “Clutch” is not a tangible quality, yet it somehow has a numerical value that is one of the largest factors in QBR…Logic!

        And that’s to say nothing of the multitude of factors this “comprehensive” statistic ignores. Like, say, the opposing defense, or the other 21 players on the field on any given play.

        I will post the article as soon as i can. Internet is being wonky, what with this crazy weather and all. I can’t get any new pages to open. Luckily, i had left this one open when i took my nap…
        Hopefully i won’t have lost my posting privileges by then. If i don’t return, remember me fondly!!!

        • Believelander

          The clutch factor thing is its own enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in an insane man’s incoherent babbling.

          Passer rating has plenty of ‘washout’ potential, but the fortunate thing for a large sample size of passer rating is, the issues that can inflate or diminish a passer’s value (incredible throws, incredible catches, large yards after catch), are things that will tend to compensate over time. A great wide receiver catch is negated by an unofficial drop. A cruddy qb whose stats are inflated by a great screen game will probably still have a cruddy passer rating because being cruddy and inaccurate is hard to overcome. An 80 yard catch and run overvalues the passer in passer rating as much as a 40 yard needle-threading between 4 defenders undervalues him.

          But the problem with this other thing, besides arbitrary multipliers of .3 to 3.0 based on how ‘clutch’ the moment of the game is (lol), is that there’s just too many things that have nothing to do with the quarterback to believe it’s going to more or less regress or egress to a realistic norm. The creator of Total QBR’s statements are very telling.

    • Believelander

      Find Article. Post Link. I must consume. Resistance is Futile.

  • nj0

    I have never seen a flatter, more apathetic team than the Chargers yesterday. A win is a win and I don’t mean to take anything away from the Good Guys, but if I were the boss in San Diego, Norv wouldn’t even be on the plane coming back. Here’s your pink slip and a bus ticket. Enjoy the scenery.

    • BIKI024

      yet they are right in the playoff hunt, 2-1 in division, 1 game back of playoff spot with 9 games left. they typically always start slow and finish strong, we’ll see how it goes for them this year.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        Wins against KC, Oak and Ten. There is no stopping this juggernaut.

        • BIKI024

          there you go again. BEEP BEEP BEEP.

          the fact is, the AFC is weak and they are currently in the 8th spot, 1 game behind the 6th playoff spot. but keep on truckin my good man.

        • BIKI024

          juggernaut? LOL. they are currently 8th seed in AFC, 1 game back of playoffs. but yes, since they lost to the lowly Browns they have ZERO ZIP ZILCH chance of improving as the season goes along, especially with all that pro bowl talent they have..

          • ClevelandFrowns

            LOL take +150 that this dumpster fire makes the playoffs then, Superfan.

          • BIKI024

            good grief dude. are you denying that they are in the 8th spot right now? there are 9 games left, anything can happen. goooo steelers!

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Put up or shut up, Superfan.

          • BIKI024

            give me +250 and I’ll fire a dime on it big boy

          • ClevelandFrowns

            Tempting.

          • Believelander

            The 8th spot in this year’s AFC is like the 8th spot in the 2006 NBA Eastern Conference. It’s sort of like “Congratulations, you have herpes.”

        • Believelander

          The Chargers aren’t a juggernaut, but they’re neither a cellar dweller. You’re right to say we shouldn’t all freak out that we beat a mediocre but talented team with a ton of problems and holes.

          Honestly, even though Norv Pizzaneck isn’t a very good coach, I think that the people above him are the bigger problem. Firing Marty Schottenheimer after a 14-2 season, letting Vincent Jackson and Darren Sproles walk, amongst a myriad of other mystifying decisions.

          Either way, this win was a lot less impressive than the way they manhandled Cinci, and they really need to go out and toss a good team like the Ravens before I’m willing to give Pat Shurmur any credit. The best thing he seems to be able to do for this franchise is stay the f*** out of everyone else’s way.

      • Believelander

        Except for last year, when they started fast, fell off the map, then won a couple bumfights at the end. And please don’t talk about teams being legit because they’re ‘in the playoff hunt’ of the AFC West. It’s the new worst division in football. I want to wear a paper bag over my head just because the division that sent Tim Tebow, Quarterback, to the NFL playoffs exists.

      • nj0

        We’ll see how it goes. They just do not look like a good team. Not so much in terms of talent, but in desire and discipline. I wonder if Norv has lost them?

        But we’ll see. Parity and all that. Heck, I’m amazed my Bills are still alive.

        • BIKI024

          if they lose to the Chiefs then they really have problems, but as of now they can still control their own destiny.

          but of course, since they lost to the Browns they must be horrible, absolutely horrible.

          • nj0

            Never said that. What I said was that I don’t think I’ve ever seen a flatter, more apathetic performance by a team. Sure, maybe that was a fluke and they’ll be ready to play every week from here on out, but if I was a Chargers fan I would not be feeling optimistic.

          • BIKI024

            those california boys weren’t ready for the beauty that is Cleveland weather. def came out flat, particularly after a bye week. but as we all saw, they definitely left a few plays on the field that probably would’ve changed the game in their favor. but i’ll take it!

            great to get the SU win, but now the Brownies are 10-4-1 ATS in last 15.. ca$h money!

        • Warburton MacKinnon

          To be honest the Chargers have been spiralling down since the fired Marty, and almost every issue they have long term,and sometimes game day can be traced to Smith. Norv has never in his life had a team to lose,don’t think anyone being honest would care if they had Norv as a head coach vs. say some high school or junior college coach,although the latter might have some new ideas and inspire effort.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/353RMCG4SCQSGHPMKN7TMON654 S. A

    Best post game quote of the day (courtesy Cleveland reboot http://reboot.theobr.com/);
    Weeden “Yeah, I couldn’t hear anything…I called one play on my own in the huddle and I was just waiting to get chewed out by Pat. . . . It worked. I should call plays all the time.”
    Maybe we would’ve scored more than one touchdown if he’d done that.
    On another note quite impressed with T -Rich’s rushing performance against statistically the NFL’s best rush defense.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      Still think Colt doing that on purpose is what really lost him his job,and you know it seemed at about the same time last year Colt seemed to begin ignoring Shurmer…a trend perhaps or just something inevitable when dealing with Shurmer?

  • Bryan

    I think someone else raised this on yesterday’s thread, but it sure is nice to see Jimmy Brown back in the locker room. And to see him connecting with T-Rich. Love JB. Living legend.

  • BIKI024

    Browns +3.5.. love that hook! my guess it goes up to 5 by the time it kicks off.

    • Petefranklin

      No lobster for you this week.

      • BIKI024

        ha, most likely not.. but i haven’t officially submitted the Browns as a cheddar play yet, although i’m sure everyone and their grandma will be on the Ravens, and of couse i love homedog division rivals..

        definitely looking forward to seeing if the defensive line play improves with the return of Taylor and Rubin combined with the growth of Hughes, Winn Stephens and Kitch. there should be some fresh legs in there clogging up the middle.

      • ClevelandFrowns

        LOL

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki
    • Warburton MacKinnon

      is george the fat guy in the clip you linked?….Damn,I hated that show,it was one of the 3 worst TV comedies(that are loved by others) that I have ever seen,the other two are Friends and Frasier. Those 3 shows have killed my intrest in watching live action sitcoms probably for life..and since they were originally on I have watched none, the only live action since that was somewhat of a comedy I have watched was Chuck.

  • BigDigg

    Thought I had when the Browns unleashed trickery with their ill-fated double-reverse: When was the last time ANY reverse had success in the NFL? I mean, any reverse without Percy Harvin? NFL Defenses seem too fast these days for a play that’s not too tough to spot and takes forever to develop.

    • BIKI024

      Travis Benjamin had a nice one early this season, can’t remember which game..

      • Cranky M

        Very first game, i believe.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/353RMCG4SCQSGHPMKN7TMON654 S. A

      You’d think they’d use Little in situations like this given that he was a running back (hopefully) converted to receiver who could plough through the tackles.

    • Believelander

      Yeah the Browns pulled one off earlier for a big ripper, like Biki said. I’m not a fan of the double reverse, though. If you want to run a trickeration reverse, run a flea flick reverse from a HB give. It’s less likely for them to spot one wide receiver running a reverse pattern than two.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      When they used to have the reverse to Cribbs he did well(granted that was before Shurmer),also the first couple to Benjamin got some positive yards this season. So maybe they should switch it up,or make it an option or a fake reverse,or maybe the second guy should flip it back to the QB?

  • Believelander

    Pete’s continued usage of the Total QBR stat remains worst in the league by a mile.

    • BernietoCatcherGuy

      I would agree that it’s not very “clutch” to use it. Although I might have to wait for a larger sample to see for sure

    • nj0

      Eh, while I think it is a bogus stat, I have no problem with it being mentioned. Fact is, QBR hates Weeden. No harm in pointing it out as long as we don’t hang too much onto the fact.

      • Believelander

        The issue with QBR is that it doesn’t actually measure how good a quarterback is. The other problem is that what it actually supposedly does (measure how important a QB is to winning a game), it can’t do well because all of these aggregate statistics are spoiled by small samples. The same is true of passer rating – its true use is analyzing a large sample size of over 100 games. But the problem is, when QBR relies on so many stats that are subjective to any given game, but its aggregate season/career average lets the circumstance of one game unrelated to the QB affect his QBR for the other games that had nothing to do with those circumstances, it spoils its own analysis.

        I would say I’m surprised that ESPN doesn’t understand this, but I’m not. They’re literally the worst ever.

  • ClevelandFrowns

    Monday Night Football Pick (5-1 ATS on posted Monday nighters, 26-22 (54.1%) in total).

    Cardinals +7 over Niners. Two good defenses, two bad quarterbacks. Will take the underdog at home who’s more desperate and whose quarterback’s badness is less underrated.

    • Petefranklin

      Good pick Im in @ 5 dimes at even $$$. I should have pulled the Saints from Cheddar for this one. Home dog in a week the dogs have been good.

    • Believelander

      Ugh, hope for your sake you didn’t drop too many units on THAT massacre.

      Although I find it a big puzzling that you would bet against Alex Smith who has posted a very good 67.1 total QBR for the season. The most comprehensive….whatever…..definitely cautioned you on just how dangerous he is.

  • bupalos

    Great write up and I find myself agreeing more and more. EXCEPT:

    >>>a double-reverse from Josh Cribbs to Travis Benjamin that fooled no one on the San Diego defense and was fumbled for a loss of 20 yards.>>>

    er…actually if you watch the replay it somehow fooled a bunch of Chargers and was going to go for at least 20 and possibly a touch if they won 7-on-5 blocking downfield. Why that works when Shurmur calls it every 10th play I don’t know, but it mostly does.

    • Believelander

      Because nobody the Browns have faced have Eric Mangini as coach, so of course something that inane is going to work.

      /FANPERBOLE’D

  • WestPalm27

    San Fran -7 at Arizona for essay pick. I think this could be a blowout for SF tonight. Arizona is just overmatched here. They have the pressure to end a three game losing streak, at home, on monday night football against the top team in their division. They typically dont play well on monday night and tonight will be no exception. I just cant see that offense putting up many points at all. Expect a heavy dose of gore from the beginning (bruised ribs and all). This will allow alex smith to do what he does against division rivals…win.

  • Beeceeinla

    i submit that the curse of marty schottenheimer was a factor here. san diego fired him more recently, so the curse had more mojo for them.

    • Believelander

      Firing Marty Schottenheimer is like hiring escorts without a condom…it seems to stick with you forever.

      • Warburton MacKinnon

        That seems to be so true,but has any team that has ever fired Marty done better without him than with him? I think at best teams have gotten to the same exact point,and also failed to get to/win a super bowl. Stat guys can anyone help me out and tell me if I am right or wrong(now I am not asking about wins or losses in the regular season as I think his 14-2 was his best ever,followed by I think a 13-3 with the Cheifs and Joe Montana).

        • Believelander

          Well, he’s coached 5 pro teams: Cleveland, Kansas City, Washington (1 year), San Diego, and a UFL team – the Virginia Destroyers. San Diego fiddled with records close to what they achieved under Schotty, never reaching an AFC Championship game, before slowly imploding like a dying low-mass star over the past few seasons.

          Cleveland

          So anyway, Kansas City,

          I guess nothing needs to be said about those two franchises since Schotty left. One could argue that the old Browns won a Super Bowl as the Ravens over a decade after Schottenheimer, but one could also get punched in the f***ing face.

          And he coached Washington for 1 season, went 8-8. Doesn’t really count, but Washington has sucked almost every season, now they have RG3 and Shannahan. Oh, and his 1 season coaching the UFL Virginia Destroyers, they won their championship. So there.

          • Warburton MacKinnon

            forgot about the UFL team…also thought he only coached SD for one year. Otherwise two things great comment on the Ravens,and it seems I WAS right. So ya know I have at least that going for me, and enlightenment before I die.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Ladies and Gentlemen, I present Believelander, the voice of experience.

        Remember to use the cream every morning and it is cheaper if you just but your own penicillin.
        You can get syringes at any pharmacy.

  • actovegin1armstrong

    It is time for some Browns Bashing, or more appropriately Brandon Bashing.

    The guy looks terrible and he shall never amount to anything in this league!
    He reminds me of that OAFL QB that San Francisco wasted the 1st pick in the draft on a few years ago. That guy started poorly and I have no clue what shoe store he is working in now.

    Disirregardlessly, if you can not be a star playing for Mike Nolan you have no business being in the NFL.

    • Warburton MacKinnon

      I ain’t bashing the team,or most of the players,our coaches on the other hand.

      • acto

        Thatisexactlymypoint
        WARB
        Nolan.v.Harbaugh

Previous post:

Next post: