The Cleveland Browns regret that their fans didn’t want to wave white flags at Charlie Batch

by Cleveland Frowns on November 25, 2012

Here’s Browns spokesman Neil Gulkis on the team’s decision to cancel the white flag giveaway that had been planned for today’s game:

“After further and careful consideration, we felt it was in the best interests of everyone involved that we not have a giveaway item at tomorrow’s game. It is something that was intended to be fun for our fans and that they could rally around, and we regret that some didn’t perceive it that way.”

And since there’s no accountability like Cleveland Browns accountability, this is also the week that Brandon Weeden follows up on a wildly inconsistent performance in Dallas by going public with complaints about how the way the team practices is “unfair” to him and his teammates. Just in time for the Steelers and the first game all season that the Browns will face a top-five defense by yards allowed.

As for what else is fair, it’s hard not to picture a home loss to Charlie Batch as a crown jewel of the Shurmur Era, but this is the NFL, where anything is (theoretically) possible, and Pittsburgh is only favored by 1.5 today in Vegas. So here we go. Grab your flask, say your prayers, and this is your Shurmurball open thread for Browns v. Steelers. We’ll be back tomorrow as always to see about how it went.

  • Cranky M

    Normally i would take issue with a QB making excuses like that. But i have a hard time faulting anybody who wants to criticize Shurmur. And at least he didn’t complain that the coaching staff is mean to him…

    I think it’s pretty silly that Pluto claims Childress wouldn’t thrust a QB under into a shoddy situation simply because he has head coaching experience. I mean….was he not paying attention when Childress coached the Vikings? He was consistently criticized for not playing to his team’s strengths. And to say that Shurmur is also too experienced to do such a thing…he DOES actually watch the Browns, right? Are we sure about this?

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      These are good points.

    • eldaveablo

      Shurm annoys the hell out of me, and all I do is watch him on TV and read transcripts of his press conferences. Imagine if he was your boss. Can’t blame Weeds for getting a little frustrated and saying something – especially since Shurm is most likely a lame duck.

      I wish he wouldn’t have said anything, but can understand where he’s coming from.

  • trashycamaro

    I was going to laugh that we are going to lose to the Steelers with a #MACtion QB – but then I realized all their MACtion QBs are better than our Big 12 QBs.

  • Cranky M

    So….where do I go to return my Weeden Fan Club membership card? Good grief.

    • nj0

      You can throw it in the dumpster with the fire raging in it.

    • Believelander

      Ye of little faith.

  • nj0

    Why does Pluto number his paragraphs?

  • Cranky M

    I think this CBS announcer just had a bout of dementia. He said that when the Browns get down here, you expect to see Plaxico Burress. Then he corrected himself and said that you expect to see him when the Steelers are in the red zone.
    How long has it been since Burress played for the Steelers?

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      He re-signed with them four days ago.

      • Cranky M

        Did he really? Where the hell have i been? And what the hell are the Steelers thinking?

    • Believelander

      Today

    • Believelander

      /checks clock
      13 hours, 21 minutes.

      • Cranky M

        Yeah, i had no idea. I’m an idiot. Still doesn;t change the fact that he said you expect to see Burress when the Browns reach the red zone…

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    3 Turnovers and still losing at Half. Shurmurball. Welcome to the Browns Haslam.

  • nj0

    Can’t believe we’re going into the half losing. Third string QB, fourth string RB, three turnovers… We are so the Cleveland Browns.

  • Cranky M

    Absolutely unbelievable and inexcusable that the Browns are losing. My mind is truly boggled.

    • bupalos

      This table was set when instead of playing numbers on the last turnover, Shurmur went random. You have the opportunity to go into the half up by 9, guaranteed. GUARANTEED. All you have to do is run on first down and second down, take a shot on 3rd if you want and you didn’t get it.

      I thought that would be a 6 point swing, turns out to be 10 because no one tells the DB’s to hold, and no one wraps up. The steelers are doing stuff to see how stupid we are, and they can’t find the bottom.

      Still think we’ll win this game, but this whole coaching crew is so lazy and random, if anyone argues for shurmur for one second I will consider them too stupid to talk to. This may be the worst coach in the NFL in the last 10 years. His little time out tantrums he throws for no reason other than his emotional immaturity are the icing on the cake.

      • BIKI024

        I don’t know Bup, you seem to have more in common than Shurmur than you let on with all your tantrums your throw on here!

        I would be SHOCKED if Haslam kept on Shurmur. It’s just so rare that a new owner keeps on the lame duck coach, just don’t think he wants to rewrite history and potentially waste another year under new coaching staff. Unless he wins out, or maybe 4-1 to finish. I’ll take 2-3 finish and bring in the new staff in 6 weeks..

        That being said, Shurmru’s tantrum regarding forward progress definitely seemed to help us in the end when Trent clearly fumbled.

        • bupalos

          Not sure what you’re talking about with the fumble at the end. I guess you think Shurmur losing his shit on every little thing goosed the refs to blow the whistle early (actually debatable, I think he was stopped anyway.) But if you can’t recognize a bad, lazy, stupid coach who has quit on himself, that’s no one’s problem but your own.

          Actually, not really your problem either. Keep on truckin’, superfan! Toot toot!!!

      • actovegin1armstrong

        Bupa,

        You are way off base on this.

        I have tremendous respect for Shurmur, he is one of the best cardiologists in Nebraska.

        Although there was a Lame Duck coach with a comparable name, but he has been done since The Walrus left.

  • nj0

    It is truly amazing how we find new ways to lose. Every time I think I’ve seen it all, they come up with something new. We’re the Thomas Edison of losing.

  • bupalos

    Kudos to Weeden. I mean that. There are 2 criteria for this kind of comment. Is it true, and should it be said. In this case the answers are yes and yes.

    FIRE SHURMUR TOMORROW. WIN OR LOSE FIRE HIM TOMORROW..

  • nj0

    And now Usama Young is dead.

  • nj0

    These announcers are terrible.

  • bupalos

    Shurmur is close to non-functional now. He’s tantruming every little thing.
    He know he’s dead, just get rid of him.

    • nj0

      Only Shurmur could make tantrum a verb.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    I’m just going to sit back and wait for Brad Mccoy to chime in.

    Seriously…+7 in turnovers and you win by 6.

  • http://twitter.com/nocoastoffense pete beatty

    always a good day when we beat Pittsburgh but god dammnit I can already smell the “Browns are frisky, let’s give Shurmur one more year” narrative that the NFL consensus machine is farting up. Gifted seven turnovers, a very bangedup opponent, and lots of penalties, and we JUST BARELY won.

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      Yup.

    • bupalos

      No one but Biki is going to confuse that with anything other than the coaching disaster it was.

      • BIKI024

        I love it when people think for me, care to run my businesses for me Bup, u seem to always know what’s on my mind! DERP

        Just don’t see how Browns coaching was a disaster in this game, because he had some tantrums on the sidelines?? LOL. Again, it seemed to work in our favor with what was clearly a trent richardson fumble and the refs called forward progress was stopped from shurmur ripping off their heads for not blowin the whistle on the dwyer TD (or whichever steelers rb ran it in) after it seemed his forward progress stopped. It was a good nonwhistle btw, but i was listening to steelers radio broadcast and they tipped their cap to Shurmur for working the refs.

        Dissirregardless, shurmur is not the coach next year, and i hope they consult with Bup on who the next coach is, lord knows he seems to have the book on all of them.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          Biki,
          I want to run your bid-ness.
          What will I be driving down that road to ruin?

        • bupalos

          I consulted with the bupettes on the proper response here and we all agree it is the following: you,sir, are a potty pickles pants.

          The younger one wanted to go with “captain fuck-face” in place of sir, but cooler heads prevailed.

          Seriously though, if you had kids, you would be able to recognize Shurmur’s guilty defensive tantrum at the end of half for what it was. But no, your way is much better.

          • BIKI024

            Child please. Ur poor kids.

      • NeedsFoodBadly

        I love how you called it, and then Biki gave you the ol’ derp, before going ahead and doing what you predicted, even proclaiming Shurmur a gamer for yelling at the refs once in awhile.

        It was so beautiful.

        • BIKI024

          I didn’t call him a gamer, the Steelers play-by-play guys did, don’t shoot the messenger foolio

        • bupalos

          He has a certain innocent talent of distillation, doth he not? Bottle it bik!

  • nj0

    What the f did i just watch?

    • jpftribe

      the worst QB in the NFL coached by what might be the worst Head Coach the NFL has seen in 35 years, or at least as long as I can remember.

      • nj0

        it was like a browns win was preordained and shurmur, being the metaphysical libertarianist that he is, did his best to rage against the universe

        • jpftribe

          Weeden complaining about Shurmur is like Rush Limbaugh complaining Dick Morris is partisan.

          Get rid of them both.

          I went into this year knowing Shurmur was inept, hoping Weeden could be decent. I’ve held off judgement on “Weeds” all year, until now. 10 weeks in and the guy looks worse every week, goes golfing back home on the bye week and is going to make excuses about not practicing plays?

          Here’s one for ya weeds, Oklahoma City is always looking for some starting pitching. Oh, sorry, they’re AAA.

          • bupalos

            I feel like both those guy’s problem is they are lazy. Weeden has been trying to get a payday in pro ball for a decade, and he finally got it. Shurmur was basically born to it. I don’t feel like there is much try in either of these guys.

            I’m not quite ready to give up on Weeds, I think you could put the mild fear of god into him by benching for McCoy and then let him compete in training camp.

          • Bryan

            What’s with the “Weeden is lazy” narrative? Did I miss something? What evidence do we have on this?

            Weeden being less productive the last few weeks is certainly a problem, but I never heard him accused of laziness.

          • Believelander

            I’m not even arguing with them anymore. Let them see whatever they want to see.

          • bupalos

            Right. Because after 34 years of dying every Sunday, I just WANT to believe that the browns have a qb problem.

          • Cranky M

            Didn’t you read the post? He went golfing once. Only lazy people golf. If he wasn’t lazy, he would spend every waking moment in the film room or practicing with his receivers. Hell, he probably wouldn’t sleep. Those few hours of golfing have obviously cost us at least 2 or 3 wins.

          • bupalos

            Whatever makes you feel better about a 30 year old that has a LOT of developing to do but doesn’t work the bye…

          • BIKI024

            The new CBA prohibits them from coming into training facility for 3 or 4 consecutive days during the bye week. So the guy went golfing, our President has gone golfing more than the last 4 combined, with the country nearing a fiscal cliff, yet that doesn’t seem to bother anyone

          • bupalos

            Hey, I’m just guessing what his problem is. I don’t know. What do you think makes him throw the ball to the other team?

            Like I said, I don’t want to give up on him, but from his first comment on how super fun it was to suck against the eagles to today, I’ve not yet see anything to disabuse me of the notion that this guy is more failed pitcher than successful qb.

          • Bryan

            There is no doubt Weeden has looked substantially worse these last few games than he did in Weeks 2-7. That is very disappointing because he was on such a nice arc after Week 7. I think there are now serious questions about him. I just don’t see where the lazy thing comes from.

            One substantive thing I have noticed: In the last three games he has made very few throws over the top of the defense. My guess is that the league is catching up with him a bit and taking away his vertical throws. The problem is that Shurmur needs to react to that fact and develop new game plans. From what I can see, he is not. Weeden is stuck holding the ball looking downfield, but Defenses are just sitting back and waiting, so all he can do is check down, throw the ball away, or force the issue.

            Generally, its really hard to separate Shurmur’s failings from Weeden’s.

          • bupalos

            The lazy thing is just a hunch. Probably the wrong word there, I just think it makes sense to me that a guy in his position may be too satisfied for anyone’s good. After banging around the minors for years, he finally got Paid. He’s too old to take over the league, and probably too worldly-wise to worry much about it. “Maturity” cuts both ways. I’d almost be happy to hear that that he was hadening a little, like buying a big diamond encrusted “weeds” amulet or something. Or calling his own plays. You can just smell satisfied corporate yesman all over shurmur and maybe the stench is drifting…

          • BIKI024

            has he really regressed?? i mean i know Rob Ryan may be the most overrated coach there is, but he played pretty well against a very talented Cowboys defense, in a game that we probably would’ve won if Buster Skrine didn’t get flagged for so many illegal contacts. bottom line the Browns are 3-2 in the last 5, with some winnable games coming up against Jokeland (via Frowns) and Brady Quinn.. hopefully he can pad his stats for all you stat monkeys.

            it’s amazing how people expect rookies to perform at an elite level right away, like guys like Eli, Brees, Peyton, didn’t throw a boatload of picks their rookie campaigns..

            Peyton threw 28 INTs in 575 attempts which equates to: 4.8%

            Weeden has thrown 13 in 397 = 3.3%

            but yeah, let’s give up on the guy because you don’t like the HC or that he went golfing on his bye week.

            DERP DERP DERPITTY DERP

            he may still end up being mediocre at best, but he deserves another year..

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I actually completely agree with this.

          • bupalos

            >>Generally, its really hard to separate Shurmur’s failings from Weeden’s.<<

            That's the point that keeps me hopeful.

      • Cranky M

        Gabbert, Quinn, Palmer, Cassell, Sanchez, Ponder, and probably a few more that i’m missing, disagree with your assessment of Weeden.

        • jpftribe

          you can’t pick Quinn and Cassell, only one is the starter. If you pick Quinn, I’ll give you that one, but he is worse than all the rest, by my unobjective completely unqualified eye, and by most staticstical measures.

          • Believelander

            You said the worst QB in the NFL.

          • Cranky M

            You didn’t say worst starting QB; you said worst QB.

            Let’s try to be somewhat reasonable and objective. A rookie QB turned the ball over once against the best defense in the league, and that on a tipped ball (which, granted, has been a recurring problem). I fail to see how this leads to “wort QB” comments.

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      This is unusual.

      • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

        I’d like to submit a formal request to the Executive Committee here at this website to revert back to a modified old logo and replace the frowning poop with a frowning Shurmur over the toilet. I can’t think of a more appropriate picture.

  • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

    Mrs. PML is back in America’s Rotten Crotch and I’ve been hearing the nonstop grunting and trash talk from my yinzer in-laws all week. I made sure to let them know they just ate big steaming plate of Shurmur and Satan played like a runny Shurmur. I can’t remember the last time I was this unexcited after we slayed the great Satan.

    • bupalos

      Actually when I think about it in this inverted fashion (like “we just beat you despite a steaming runny turd sliming and stinking up our sideline) I like it waaaay better.

      • http://www.autismspeaks.org/ PML

        Good point.

    • Believelander

      I thought it was fantastic that we didn’t even play a good offensive game and made the Steelers look like a bunch of jags. 100% of their points were scored on pure luck.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    wins are nice, but discovering that redd foxx faked his death to be a 3rd string nfl qb is magnificent.

    (doubters? pfft… like anyone can there was ever a charlie batch qb-ing EMU.)

    • bupalos

      Yowza.

      You photoshopped that, right?

    • Believelander

      Best thing ever. +1

  • Petefranklin

    Props to frownie for getting the white flag tweets acknowledged in the leftovers section of our local fishwrap on saturday. Cleveland Frowns now mentioned in a national setting,congrats! I liked the way the players hit them some Steelers today. I think that there actually be a light coming from the end of the tunnel that’s not a train. Heckart really needs to stay here.

  • Believelander

    #SHURMURBALL

    I can’t really bitch at Shurmur. He just sucks. It happens. Buster Skrine sucks too, but he gobbled up a fumble today. But still, he was just infuratingly conservative enough to keep the Steelers in it. It was like the Browns defense kept trying to slam the door on the Steelers’ head and Shurmur kept shoving his shoulder in the door to keep it open. JUST LET THEM CRUSH THEIR HEADS, PAT.

    But good job, Pat. He actually was in danger of showing emotion both in his postgame in the locker room and his press conference. Never discourage progress, no matter how small.

    They should have kept the white flags to hand out to Steelers fans on the way out of the stadium. #BOOM

    • BIKI024

      Not sure it’s wise to be aggressive with a rookie QB against one of the top defenses in the NFL. Welcome back James Harrison, he was a monster out there, same with Timmons. Ike Taylor almost picked off a couple as well.

    • Cranky M

      “Buster Skrine sucks too”

      His coverage skills could obviously use a lot of work, but he’s been pretty damn good in run support.

  • ChuckKoz

    nice win and hopefully the one that keeps the steelers out of the playoffs.

    having said that, the difference between Charlie Batch and Brandon Weeden was negligible. that seems like a problem moving forward.

    and shurmur still doesn’t seem to understand how replay works or many other things that seem important to being a coach, but that doesnt really matter since he will be fired.

    • Believelander

      The difference………Chuck, you’re supposed to be a reasonable guy. Come on now.

      • BIKI024

        He must be a fan of evaluating via QBR. – Batch had 20.8 to Weeden’s 13.4. But Weeden’s qb rating was a respectable 78.7 to Batch’s 38.7.. but lest not forget that the Steelers D came into the game ranked #1 in the NFL.

        Turnovers:
        Weeden: 1 leading to 7 points
        Batch: 3 leading to 7 points

        You play to win the game!

        3-3 in last 6 (4-2 ATS)

        • Believelander

          I’m totally done trying to explain it. Until tomorrow, when I try to explain it. Going to have to wait until tomorrow to look over Weeden’s dropbacks because I’m too tired for that shit. Just broke down every dropback of the game to gather another stat for my Weedenalysis series.

          As much as we must agree to disagree on Sanchize (even when you call me poor), it’s good to know there are still brave men in Cleveland York City with the fortitude to resist leaping to unsubstantiated conclusions about rookie quarterbacks.

      • ChuckKoz

        just watching them, i saw 2 guys that threw a lot of bad passes. maybe batch had a few more mistakes per the boxscore, but seems that could have easily gone the other way.

        hoping we can see colt this week. not that i want colt for the future, since we largely know what to expect of him, but then we can have a measure of where weeden stands. wouldnt be surprised if colt lights it up with these WRs (damn i love josh gordon)

        • BIKI024

          kind of a catch-22 with us playing the Raiders turrible, absolutely turrible defense which allows the league high in points allowed: 32.4, as well as the highest allowed QB rating of 101.9.

          It seems like this could be a nice game for Weeden to build some confidence in himself, even if it’s against an inferior defense, and if Colt does well, many fans will probably overlook how inept the Raiders defense is and drama ensues.

          but it does seem likely Weeds is out, pretty rare that QBs are coming back the week following a concussion, so we’ll see.

          • ChuckKoz

            true, the raiders d is about as bad as it gets

  • Kamov

    Jauron for interim coach!

    (but not for any longer)

  • Believelander

    I’m going to wait until tomorrow’s post to react to Weeden’s performance and the inevitable Doubterade we’re liable to see continue to seep out of the woodwork. Bringing ammo.

  • BIKI024

    i know everyone loves to call us a dumpster fire, etc, etc, but there are 11 teams who have a worse point differential than us, including our 2 next opponents who have a -138 and -140 respectively. Browns are -39 on the season. Not so dumpsterfirey, especially when opponents combined record to date is 66-52.

    • Believelander

      I agree with this, but it is mostly on the strength of our defense. I’m mostly done grinding my axe with Shurmur because frankly, his offense suckblows balldick, and everyone knows it. He is a negative impact on the team in many ways, and I’ve accepted that he’s coached himself out of a job, so I no longer have to worry about him. I’m slowly gathering excitement at what I see on the field. Once I distill the play calling out of it and look purely at the talent and skill, there’s a lot to look forward to.

      Still crisps my buns that I have to watch our fearless leader nearly/fully buffoon us out of wins every week.

      • BIKI024

        play calling schmay calling. i’m a fan of Weeds as well, but there have been COUNTLESS plays that he’s left out there in many of the games that our defense kept us in. couple more plays here and there made by Weeden (and the receivers) and who knows what our record is. play calling always look better when the guys execute properly and look terrible when they don’t. even Trent Richardson has said he’s left a lot of plays out there and not hitting the holes the play provided him the way he should (i.e jumping on the 3rd and goal @ dallas and getting stuffed instead of following the blocks)

        but yes, i agree Shurmur is a goner, but the buck stops with him when it comes to the effort put out by the players. go ahead and call him every name in the book, but each one of those guys in that locker room have busted their tails when they just of easily could’ve packed it in, especially with the writing being on the wall for Shurmur as soon as Haslam took over, and the point differential is a key metric to prove that.

        • Believelander

          One could also argue the players are all adults who are plainly cognizant of the fact that none of them have job security and they’re all playing for it with a new regime sweeping in. Therefore the buck only stops with him in your opinion. Which is cool. Opinions are good.

        • bupalos

          Motivating rookies?

          To borrow a phrase, Child Please!

          • BIKI024

            rookies don’t need motivated? hmm, so why is it that young teams are the most prone to getting blown out???

            let’s see how the rest of the season plays out, but we’re on our way to having one of the better point differential since the Browns last playoff appearance:

            2012: -39 with 5 games to go
            2011: -89
            2010: -61
            2009: -130
            2008: -118
            2007: +20
            2006: -118
            2005: -69
            2004: -114
            2003: -68
            2002: +24

  • BIKI024

    uh oh, 0-5 on the road and the Clowns are favored by 1?? i know it’s the Raiders, but sheesh.

    • Believelander

      Vegas must have checked your point differential stats.

  • CleveLandThatILove

    I know we still have needs on offense, but how great would it be to have Manti T’eo in a Browns uniform next year?

    • bupalos

      Very great. Very very great.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    This is the only city I’ve ever been to in the entire country where a very vocal minority of people are actually ready to cut a quarterback 11 games into his career.

    People claim that Shurmur is a shit coach, fine. People also claim that Weeden is a shit quarterback. How about if we fix the coaching situation before we cut ties with a first round pick just in case one has to do with the other? Thanks.

    • Believelander

      Agreed. People acting like they KNOW that Weeden is no good incense me. Even if he turns out to be the next biggest bust in football, they didn’t -know- SHIT. It means they guessed and got it right.

      (It’s also the safe guess because overwhelmingly more QBs are busts than successes)

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    I also am not going to reply to each comment bitching about the coaching yesterday, but I really don’t have a hard time with what Shurmur did at the end of the game.

    You make Charlie Batch beat you, you don’t take a chance on throwing the ball and letting the #1 defense in the league win the game for them. This week, I’ll actually defend Shurmur for how he handled the end of this game and publicly state that I think he got it right.

    • nj0

      I agree with this as well. At that point, the likelihood of Weeden beating us was far greater than Batch doing so. That said, I still thought it was bad game planning, predictable offensive play calling, and a butcher’s job with how he handled the end of the half.

      • BIKI024

        everyone’s playcalling looks predictable when Dick Lebeau is dialin up the plays. The Steelers aren’t the #1 ranked defense for nothing, even WITHOUT Troy Polamalu for 9 games..

        definitely frustrating we couldn’t capitalize on the field position advantage we had, but a lot of people didn’t complain about the Buckeyes winning games via field position. a win is a win.

        i’d have to believe the pick 6 didn’t exactly pump up the aggressive juices for the offensive braintrust, aka Winston ShurChill

        • nj0

          Predictable play calling has been an issue all season.

          • BIKI024

            same with Weeds missing wide open looks and Trent missing his blocks up front. that’s not all on the play calling, the players have to execute, and Weeden has left a TON of plays out there.

            so if there are several wide open players on a play call, whose fault is it that we don’t convert??

          • nj0

            Bad play calling and bad execution are not mutually exclusive.

          • BIKI024

            yeah but when you see WIDE OPEN receivers where the QB just flat out doesn’t see them or even look their way, then it’s more on execution. it would be one thing if the defense sniffed out the play or had all our guys covered, which of course has happened and will happen to even the best play callers of all-time, but we’ve seen time after time after time after time Weeds missing wide open looks.

            again, not saying Shurmur is without faults, or many of them, but he certainly is getting helped out by Weeden (and the receivers)

          • nj0

            But the fact remains that the coach is making play calls that his personnel cannot execute. When a manager places his people in a position where they cannot succeed, it is ultimately on the manager.

          • BIKI024

            you’re joking right? Weeden has shown that he can execute the plays, but consistency is something he is having issues with. that comes with reps and the only way you get reps is by calling the plays, not dumbing it down even more than they already have.

          • nj0

            True.

            If we’re talking about developing Weeden during a rebuilding year, then giving him as many reps as possible and damn the consequences is the way to go.

            If we’re talking about winning games and trying to make the playoffs (what I was told was the plan by HHS), then I think we should have dumbed things down a long time ago. If Weeden is so inconsistent that he cannot make the plays to win more than three out of eleven AND the goal is to make that “pretty big jump” record-wise, then I believe I have every right to criticize Shurmur for placing his people in positions where they cannot succeed.

            Of course, these two options are just another in a long line of contradictory messages fed to us by our schizophrenic President, GM, and HC.

          • BIKI024

            from what i understand, the playcallilng is pretty dumbed down as it is dude, and Weeds is having a hard time remembering the timing on routes that he didn’t practice this week. poor guy must’ve been smokin too much of himself last week during his bye.

            yes of course the goal is to win more than 3 out of 11 and we’ve been pretty darn close in most games that could’ve gone either way. coulda shoulda woulda, but this team is definitely on the rise, especially now that it seems like we’re finally healthy. that 8 man rotation up front is BRUTAL!

          • Believelander

            Agree with the above. My point of contention isn’t that. My feeling is that the overall play-calling scheme, both the simple and complex plays, put the Browns offense in a position to fail. The castle is built on a foundation of sand, so to speak.

          • Believelander

            Agree @nj0 you act as if the rookies making mistakes absolves Shurmur of his atrocious play calls. It doesn’t.

          • BIKI024

            yes, players executing absolves a lot of “alleged” atrocious play calling. just ask Kevin Gilbride, Bruce Arians and countless other OC’s who have been shunned when playing with inferior talent.

          • bupalos

            Definitely back bik up on this. I’ve watched all-22 on 8 or the 10 games and there has been a ton left out there. That’s where most of my negativity on Weeden comes from, for whatever reason (skurred?) he doesn’t seem to read the field.

            I know I know…rookie…

            On the other hand, I think this whole slate of receivers is going to be better than average.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        To pile on your point even further, Colt McCoy was out there at the end of the game because Weeden suffered a concussion (from Joe Thomas’ knee, not anything the Steelers did.) If Shurmur had let McCoy throw a pass that got picked off and the Steelers win that way, Shurmur be ran out of town this morning.

        • nj0

          Good point. I had forgotten that McCoy was in there.

        • bupalos

          >>Shurmur would be ran out of town this morning.>>

          Yeah, that would be horrible.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Well, the point is that he got the end of the game right for once, and people are still killing him for it.

          • bupalos

            Not sure people are talking about the possession you are.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I just gathered that. My initial comment had referred to how Shurmur ended the game, I thought that was what we were talking about.

            I kind of agree with you on the other possession, but the Browns defense was absolutely ravenous in the second half, so I still can’t really kill Shurmur over this. Especially not since it worked out for us.

    • bupalos

      The only thing I disagreed about end of game is that we had McCoy in there and should have tried a playaction bootleg run on 1st or 2nd. They were selling out 150% and it was obvious. Our WR blocking is great, and you get caught for a 4 yard sack who cares, you’re going to get lucky to get back to the line on the obvious handoff anyway.

      The thing I disagreed about throughout was the same as always…there is no consistency or rationale to the decisions. He wasn’t “conservative” yesterday, he just swung this way and that and seems to get played by his gut. Worst call of the game was the straight drop back empty backfield after the last turnover we got before half at about the 34. That is a very high sack potential play especially against the steelers, who are smart enough to know they are right at the 3-point goal line. So he passes up the 3 line plunges there when it means being safe and going into half up 9, but opts for it when it means nothing more than burning off their 3 time outs and giving them the ball back with over 2 minutes.

      With no rationale, it seems to me he just gets frisky when he feels good, and goes in a shell when he feels bad.

      • nj0

        Exactly right.

        If you feel you need to be conservative, he was wrong at the end of the half. If it’s the other then the decision at the end was incorrect.

        As far as I can tell Shurmur shuns such a thing in favor of a magic eight ball.

        • bupalos

          I think it’s a little worse. I think he lets his emotions lead him.

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        I disagree with the conservative comment. In this case, I think Shurmur played it smart. Why give Pittsburgh’s #1 ranked defense a chance to win the game when CHARLIE BATCH is leading their offense. In this case, running the ball and the clock, and giving it back to Batch is the superior option to trying to throw the ball on their defense.

        I’d also point out that the worst case scenario is not a 4 yard sack, the worst case scenario is that Harrison destroys McCoy yet again, and Thad Lewis is starting in Oakland next week.

        Please note that I still think that Shurmur can’t be fired fast enough, but I feel like I have to acknowledge when I think he did the right thing.

        • bupalos

          >>>the worst case scenario is that Harrison destroys McCoy yet again and Thad Lewis is starting in Oakland next week.>>>

          There is no way to get creamed on that kind of play if you’re willing to just slide if it’s not there. And it was there. And even supposing, I have little problem with the second part either.

          I didn’t want to throw much either, although I wouldn’t object to something super-safe or very deep with max protect. I’m talking about a bootleg run. Perfect for McCoy. It really is no more dangerous than the handoff as was evidenced on the next “drive” when we were saved by the whistle. There is a way to be conservative without taking a knee.

          One also might note that Batch did lead a last minute drive all the way down the field– that was the end of the first half. Fortunately there was still time for the Browns to come back after that. There would not have been if that had been repeated at that point.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I guess we’ll agree to disagree here then. I take my chances with Charlie Batch on his own 5 yard line (or even 20 if it had been a touchback) with :20 left to play over putting a ball in the air against the best defense in the NFL with 1:10 left at the middle of the field.

          • BIKI024

            no brainer. but hey, just like the Browns find new ways to lose games, many of our fans find new ways to complain about wins.

          • bupalos

            Whoop. Not talking about that drive, the one before it, where we also line-plunged 3 times just to take off their 3 timeouts with over 2 minutes and gave them the ball on their 30 or so. They weren’t really even time-constrained.

            No, totally agree with just going to a knee on the last possession, even moreso than handing it off.

          • BIKI024

            yeah well we can 2nd guess all day, but what’s the point when it worked??? i mean..

          • nj0

            I hate this line of reasoning. I heard it all the time when I played poker and somebody got lucky after pushing it all in pre-flop on 2,7.

          • BIKI024

            you obviously don’t know your odds that well in poker then, because pre-flop 2,7 is nowhere near the odds of Charlie Batch driving 70 yards with no timeouts. good grief

          • nj0

            Where in my post did I ever compare those odds? I said that the line of reasoning you articulated – that second guessing bad decisions when they work out – is actually pretty terrible.

            Bad decision = bad decision.

          • BIKI024

            because we didn’t get lucky, we played the odds and won. why risk it with a cold Colt in there? i’m sure Trent and the OL are disappointed they didn’t pick up more yards and the first down there, but like someone else said, if we threw it, got a strip sack or pick, then everyone would be screaming bloody hell on why we didn’t run out the clock! we punted and he threw a pick 2 plays later.. which was basically game over. it seems to me that they made the right decision!

          • nj0

            I am not even talking about the game at all. I am taking issue with your statement – “we can 2nd guess all day, but what’s the point when it worked???”

            Whether it was the smart bet or not, I don’t care and is besides the point. I’m taking issue assertion that even if it was the wrong decision, we shouldn’t care because it worked.

          • BIKI024

            um, we were talking about the end of the game, and we played the percentages and won. 2nd guessing is for losers. you play to win the game.

          • nj0

            bad decisions are bad decisions. you make enough of them, you might win… oh… three games out of eleven or so.

          • BIKI024

            yep, all our losses are on Shurmur since he sucks and just make bad decision after bad decision. none of the players should be held accountable, it’s all on Coach Pat, Chilly, Jauron, etc. But the fact remains that Weeds has made plenty of them, Trent Richardson too.. oh yeah, and Joe Haden did by partying with Adderall. homeboy should’ve known better.

    • Believelander

      I mostly agree, although I feel that when selling out for the run up the gut, the time is ripest for a WR screen or quick slant off play action. But obviously our defense was completely dominant in the second half, and he essentially took our offense (sans Weeden plus ice cold McCoy) and the Pittsburgh D out of the equation, making it purely a game of our punter and defense vs. their offense.

      However, there were numerous times through the course of the game where his play calling shot us in the foot. I broke down and re-watched the entire thing play by play from start to finish. I was specifically analyzing Weeden, but also more generally analyzing the cadence of the game. The more I watch and analyze, the more I dislike our play calling (whether it’s Shurms or Chilly calling the plays – our players aren’t even sure at this point)

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      It actually was not a horrible game by Shurmur standards.

      Only 2 mistakes that stood out to me.

      -He still is unaware of how the two point conversion math works.

      -Giving Hardesty 2 carries. Mix the two of them up a little more. Hardesty is becoming a great change of pace back.

      Other than that no real issues. Just sit back in amazement and watch Charlie Batch sling it around and everyone else keep fumbling.

      • BIKI024

        way too early to go for 2.. you want to go for 2 with 20 minutes to go in the game?? if you don’t convert, Steelers play good defense the rest of way and only need 2 FG’s to win..

        • GrandRapidsRustlers

          Yes. The advantage of Chip Kelly coming to the NFL is he is going to turn some of the old thinking on its head with the 2 pointer. Granted I am a math nerd and if I coached a team would go for 2 every single time and never punt on my side of the field. This is why I am typing this though and waiting for the Chiefs to call me.

          • actovegin1armstrong

            GRR,

            I like the thought of everything past the 50 yard line being 4 down territory at any time in the game.

            In the very near future there will be a team that Billy Beane/Moneyballs the NFL and they shall have great success.

          • Believelander

            You mean never punt on the opponent’s side of the field, right?

          • GrandRapidsRustlers

            Good catch…Shurmur however read that and just nodded his head.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          You are correct Biki. The “go for two” math only applies when there is very little time on the clock in the 4th quarter.

          • BIKI024

            depends. if you’re winning, i believe the card says the percentages are in your favor to go for it with less than 6 minutes in the 4th

        • Believelander

          Week 1 is calling. It says it disagrees.

          • BIKI024

            it’s playing the percentages my friend. i guess if you played poker or gambled you might be able to relate better. we have a hard enough time getting into the endzone as it is, even from the 2 yard line. take the damn points unless there is less than 6 minutes to go in the game.

  • alexb

    Are there marketing jobs opening up with the CLeveland Browns? Cause that dept violated at least 3 out of the 4 P’s of marketing…possibly all 4.

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