#ArtOut

by Cleveland Frowns on January 21, 2013

This, on Art Modell’s status as a finalist for the next round of NFL Hall of Fame voting to take place Super Bowl weekend, might be the best column that NFL Hall of Fame selector and legendary local Cleveland Browns beat writer Tony Grossi has ever written.

Here’s the upshot:

Many of Modell’s supporters have since said it’s time for Cleveland to “forgive and forget.”

So I now ask what is the prevalent feeling in the Cleveland market. Should I speak against Modell’s candidacy? Speak for it? Or lay back and let the other 45 selectors make their decision without any input from me?

You can Tweet your sentiments using the hashtag #ArtIn or #ArtOut.

So we trust that folks will do their best to make sure that Tony (@TonyGrossi) gets the memo.

Modell4

Modell5

Modell6

Thank you for your continued support of the very concept of civilization, as well as your support of Cleveland Frowns. Also, word up to shoving matches, and also to Josh Cribbs for a well deserved Pro Bowl nod (lifetime achievement).

————-

RELATED:

“Cleveland, Art Modell, and the Hall of Fame: More than Just a Grudge”

“More on Art Modell and the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame Selector Leonard Shapiro of the Washington Post;

“Art Modell’s Hall of Fame Candidacy: Worse than We Thought;”

“Hey Ozzie Newsome, Please stop talking about Art Modell and the Hall of Fame;”

“A Reminder about Al Lerner, the Browns and the Baltimore Ravens“

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

    PS: I refuse to let Art Modell ruin my Super Bowl; e.g. I refuse to take this game as any kind of referendum on Modell at all. I’m at the point where I’m sure that pretty much all NFL owners are terrible and almost any of them would have done what Modell did to a city where the Curse of Wahoo and Mayor Mike White were presiding. The working people of Baltimore deserve a great NFL franchise, they have one, and I’m done worrying about how they got it when it comes down to enjoying the games themselves, which to me are about the players and the coaches, not the illegitimate wannabe puppet masters and their “legacies.” This of course applies exponentially in the case of the deceased Modell.

  • Peter

    i am sure the fine fans of Baltimore are ready to accept the Irsays in the HOF. i cant see a couple of good ideas and contracts cover up all the blemishes on Art’s record.

  • SeattleBrownsFan

    #ArtOut

  • ChuckKoz

    seeing Ray Lewis wearing that Art t-shirt last night was about the worst thing ever. and what i cannot understand is how Baltimore embraces Ray Lewis so strongly. They are the founding city of the “Stop Snitchin” campaign, yet their hero snitched in about 5 seconds after getting indicted for murder. #snitchesgetstiches

    • bupalos

      I actually thought it was wonderfully appropriate. Stabby McStabberson continually shouting out god for creating turnovers, with that fat sociopathic plutocrat splashed across his belly… it was poetic. For the same reason, I would welcome Art into the hall of fame, with open arms and an easily concealed squirt bottle of ammonium sulfide that will give his display area the appropriate je ne sais quois.

      I do hope the godbothering Ravens get mightily embarrassed in The Big Game. Mightily. Oh lord, let it be so.

      • NeedsFoodBadly

        Unfortunately, I think the Ravens have more talent on their team than San Francisco. But Ray and Art are a match made in reverse-Heaven for sure.

        • actovegin1armstrong

          I really had a “Burn in Hell Art Modell” shirt.
          I like your Bizzaro-heaven with Ray and Art joined again.

        • alexb

          QB: more or less equal, Flacco’s a better thrower Kapernicks a threat to run

          RB: more or less equal in terms of talent at the position but SF has a much better run game overall

          WR: Might slightly favor the ravens

          TE: Vernon Davis>Denis Pitta. Pitta is solid though no disrespect to him. Davis is one of the premier freaks of the NFL
          O-line: Hands down SF
          Front 7: Very close but if everybody’s healthy SF wins. Ngata is the only true freak left on the Ravens D-line. Lewis and Suggs still produce but can you seriously say they make up for Bowman,Willis and the Smith brothers? 49′ers have the best LB’ers in football hands down. J. Smith is probably the best 3-4 DT in football and Sopuaga is solid, not Ngata good but not far off.
          Secondary: Ravens hands down.
          Coach: take your pick. Although Jim took the same 49′ers team that Singletary had and put them in the NFC championship the very next season.
          Not seeing where you think the Ravens have more talent than the 9′ers. Talent wise it’s close enough though that it comes down to heart. This would have been a great matchup a couple years ago when Lewis was still in his prime and Scott was playing next to him. If the Ravens had the offensive capability back then that they do now we would have had to suffer thorugh multiple SB wins going to Baltimore.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        Even if this wasn’t otherwise excellent and the early frontrunner for Comment of the Year, would still like for “godbothering.”

      • SeattleBrownsFan

        Ray Lewis is the best murderer to ever play in the NFL, well next to OJ of course.

  • BIKI024

    #ArtOut – but not because I believe he should lose voting points for moving the team out, but because he simply does not deserve it. There are only 19 “contributors” in the Hall-of-Fame, with several of them being heavily involved with the founding of the league(s), etc. While Art has a few championships on his belt in his span as a contributor, other than brokering a TV deal, which was certainly an achievement, it doesn’t seem to me to meet the requirements to being enshrined.

    That being said, the enshrined Ralph Wilson Jr, so who knows..

  • alexb

    He’s dead i’m over it, so should Cleveland fans. If there’s cleveland fans out there already willing to let bygones be bygones with Lebron as long as he comes back….letting go of Art shouldn’t even be an issue. I hope no CLeveland fans boo his son in Canton cause ESPN will use the opportunity to gank on Cleveland and the Browns, AGAIN. It will literally ruin my day if I have to read a blurb from Merill fuckninny Hodge about ogrish Cleveland fans trolling a dead mans kid at the induction ceremony. If there’s somebody i’d like to give a stone cold stunner to at ESPN it’s definitely merrill.

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

      I keep hammering away on the down arrow, but for whatever reason only 1 vote shows up.

      • alexb

        ok so explain what you don’t agree with. It was the hate for Merill wasn’t it? lmao

        • NeedsFoodBadly

          I don’t get your LeBron/Art comparison. What Modell did was way more damaging to the city. I think it would be much easier to forgive LeBron for coming back (if that should happen) than to forgive Art. It’s not like he pulled an Al Davis and brought the Browns back, after all.

          • alexb

            correct but it’s time elapsed. We got our team back. People say well that was our team that then went on to win the SB but if I remember correctly didn’t the Ravens get some special draft or free agent exemptions because of the move that allowed them not just to get Ray ray but a couple other pieces? Pieces we wouldn’t have been able to get…?? To me Lebrons dooshery is way too fresh, and continuing, for me to welcome him back with open arms. He’s a cancer I’d rather not see return to Cleveland, I hate that Cavs management is already trying to set the table to offer him a max contract. We need to move on from Lebron, just like we moved on from Modell. I mean fuck art but seriously we do not need to be pulling shit during the ceremony.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            It’s really not the same at all. I can watch Cavs games. They still exist. For a period, the most beloved sports team in the city did not exist, and when they returned, they were crippled with bad leadership fomented by an owner that helped move them in the first place. The Ravens had a guy called Ozzie Newsome, who you might have heard of. If he had been overseeing the Browns in the 00s, I’m sure they would have had more success, trade exemptions or no.

          • alexb

            The browns werne’t much better than they are now during the 90′s unless i”m pulling a major brain fart here. We had one appearance in the playoffs in the 90′s right? Didn’t we lose to the steelers just like we did in 04?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            That has absolutely no bearing on what I’m arguing, but that’s still one more playoff win than the resurrected Browns. If you think a hypothetical Browns organization in the late 90s wouldn’t have improved with Ozzie Newsome running things, you are 100% wrong.

          • alexb

            Improved a little maybe. Not even remotely on board with you if you’re going to claim they would have been in the SB “absolutely”. The Ravens got their first SB behind the best MLB to ever play the game. Not sure if the Browns would have been able to draft Ray had they stayed in Cleveland.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            I didn’t say they would have absolutely been in the Super Bowl. But they absolutely would’ve been better than the Neo-Browns. Ray Lewis was drafted #26 in the 1996 draft. In 1995, the Browns were 5-11 and would’ve drafted in the top five. They could’ve drafted him. In any event, Ozzie Newsome drafting for an established team beats Carmen Policy doing drafts for an expansion team any day in my book.

          • alexb

            they drafted ogden and lewis that year. That is one hell of a draft. No way the Browns got both of them, probably would have had Ogden, Lewis was not on anybody’s top 10 radar so likely that wouldn’t have happened for the Browns. Not every year you get two hall of famers, one the absolute best that ever played his position and the other one of the best that ever played his position.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            You don’t think Ozzie is a better evaluator of talent than Carmen Policy? Seriously?

          • alexb

            not the point, point is he wouldn’t have gotten Lewis and Ogden in the same draft if the team was still in Cleveland.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            It’s exactly the point. It is entirely reasonable to assume that if Modell had kept the Browns in Cleveland, they would have experienced much more success than the rebooted team has “enjoyed.” Because we wouldn’t have had to start from scratch, we would have one of the best modern GMs in the form of Ozzie Newsome in-house, Randy Lerner wouldn’t have been running the team ineptly for a decade, etc. etc. etc. I don’t care WHO the Browns would’ve hypothetically acquired over this period, but I am certain it would be better than what we have now.

            Discounting, of course, the Curse of Wahoo.

          • MichaelTheRed

            Ozzie’s good peeps but he was able to draft Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis in the same year. That’s sick. In no way shape or form should Modell have been rewarded like that for moving the Browns. That was a travesty. Not that the Lewis pick wasn’t genius though. Still not sure though if the Browns would have been a whole lot better all those years even with Ozzie here. Also Adams and Siragusa were free agents…and they were a HUGE part of that defense, they allowed Ray to free roam to the ball. Are you just taking for granted they would have signed with Cleveland if the team hadn’t moved to Baltimore? I don’t think they signed with Baltimore because they just loved Ozzie Newsome so much. I’m sure the presence of the best LB in the game had an impact on their choice, a LB that Cleveland would not have had you understand that right? Ozzie would not have drafted Ray with the 4th pick.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Ozzie is an objectively better talent evaluator than any single person we’ve had at that position since the new Browns have come back. There’s a reason why he’s one of the most respected GMs in the league. He’s better than Carmen Policy. He’s better than Chris Palmer. He’s better than Butch Davis. He’s better than Phil Savage. He’s better than George Kokinis/Eric Mangini. In this bizarre counterfactual we’ve concocted, am I arguing Ozzie Newsome would’ve made every single pick exactly the same for the Browns if they’d stayed? No. But he would’ve picked a damn sight better than anyone we’ve had since 1999. I’m done arguing this point because it’s entirely insane to believe otherwise.

          • alexb

            The only point “I” was making is that it’s absurd to think we would have been in the SB or even the playoffs had modell not moved. The Ravens benefited so much from the draft exemptions and what I assume must have been some cap allocations as well with the free agents they brought in. That’s all I’m saying. In my opinion the browns would have remained an average to slightly above average team had they moved.

          • zarathustra

            Actually, the Browns of the 90′s were like the 70′s Steelers compared to the Browns of recent years.

          • alexb

            well teh steelers won like what, 3 SB’s in the 70′s? So we’re not quite that bad in comparison. And the comparison was between the 90′s teams vs the teams since they came back. Records are more or less the same with one extra playoff win in the 90′s. Have people forgotten how we ran Belichick out of town?

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

            “We” didn’t run Belichick out of town. Modell fired him when the Browns moved.

          • alexb

            you don’t remember us clamoring for belichicks head do you?

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

            It doesn’t matter what was or was not perceived. He was fired by Modell when the team moved, after promising him he could coach in Baltimore.

          • zarathustra

            Discounting the post-moved collapse in the ’95 season Belichick ever won less than six games. The current Browns have not won more than five games since 2007. The ’94 Browns went to the second round of playoffs and were considered a superbowl contender the following season–when good old Art called for a moratorium on stadium talks with the city so as to create a distraction for the team (LMFAO)

          • MichaelTheRed

            they had one or two good years in there, like 11-5….i think.

          • MichaelTheRed

            You’ve already set the stage in your mind to welcome him back. Congrats. So when he bails on Cleveland the 2nd time it should be old hat, nobody will care right? The guy is the ultimate meme in sports. Infact I wouldn’t put it past him to act like he’s coming back to Cleveland for the next year so that we make all these cap preparations for him….only to have him go somewhere else with another pair of blowjob buddies. I had a debate in my mind the other day whether I would welcome him back if I had a crystal ball and knew for fact he would win us a championship. I honestly don’t know, it’s a tossup. On the one hand it would be really nice for some kind of major championship to come to cleveland but it would always be tainted in my mind because we had to do it with that d-bag.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            You’re arguing against something I never said. Did I say I would welcome him back with open arms? Nope. But I think if he did come back, most fans would accept him.

            For what it’s worth, I don’t think the Cavs should (or are) reserving salary cap space for him in 2014. And if he were to win a championship with the Cavs, in this remotest of possibilities, it would be awesome. But I wouldn’t enjoy as much I could either.

            I would like to know more about how LeBron James is the ultimate meme in sports though. I positively have no idea what you mean by that.

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

          Ok, I’ll bite.

          1) Telling people to get over something because you are is rather childish.

          1a) I’m guessing by your grammar that you’re too young to actually remember when the team left.

          2) Art Modell left with the most beloved institution that ever existed in this city. LeBron just left. The comparison is ridiculous, at best.

          3) Who cares what ESPN, and especially Merrill “Lifetime Steeler” Hoge, thinks or says? Regardless of whether or not there are riots if / when Art Modell is enshrined, ESPN will still continue to shit on Cleveland. This is not debatable.

          4) David Modell is an asshole, but it sounds like you weren’t aware of that. Refer to point (1a).

          • alexb

            1) I was just gettin out of HS when they left. So I remember it just fine
            2) I think it is quite debateable on whether or not ESPN will take the opportunity to shit even more on Cleveland if people protest in Canton. In fact I think it’s utterly absurd to suggest the level of dripping disdain for Cleveland exhibited by ESPN won’t absolutely shoot through the roof into the intolerable. You’re high if you think it “can’t get worse”
            3) I honestly don’t know anything about David Modell other than he was a doosh. Point is it doesn’t matter or did you not get that from my earlier post and response to the other guy?
            oh, and you should get over it. The team is back with the name and colors and everything. And maybe you’re not a basketball fan I dunno, but what Lebron did to the Cavs is not that far off from what Modell did to Cleveland. Yes Modell still took the team away but Lebrons B.S ensured that the Cavs were able to make “zero” moves on any of the other free agents that year of which there was alot. Let me clear, I don’t care that he left, that’s his business. But he needed to do it like a man and let the Cavs know long before “the decision”. He hung Cleveland out to dry not entirely dissimiliar to what Modell did. At least Art had some legitimate gripes with the city of Cleveland. Lebron didn’t have that…he was treated like a walking god.

          • alexb

            just to be clear i’m saying “forget”, not really forgive….just forget.

          • zarathustra

            “….but what Lebron did to the Cavs is not that far off from what Modell did to Cleveland. Yes Modell still took the team away but Lebrons B.S ensured that the Cavs were able to make “zero” moves on any of the other free agents that year of which there was alot.”
            I’m sure you are a fine fellow, but with all due respect this has to be the dumbest thing posted on the entire internet today.

          • alexb

            Modell had legitimate gripes with the city of Cleveland. Not saying what he didn’t wasn’t bullshit but Lebron was treated like a walking god and he ensured that Cleveland got left with dick when he left because he wanted his meme moment. If there was no team in south beach and he had the opportunity to move the cavs there he would have in a heart beat he doesn’t care. The two are way more alike than anybody wants to admit because they’re still holding out that Lebron comes back and wins a championship for Cleveland. It’s not the dumbest thing written on the entire internet today by a longshot. Maybe i’m tainted because i had to walk past Lebron on multiple occassions that summer after the decision and had to watch him peacocking around like a muslim caliphate….that’s very possible. But i really do think what he did is in the same ballpark as what Art did. Not the leaving part, the part where he leveraged his fame against the whole organization so he could have his “all eyes on me” moment.

          • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

            We really need to do something about this thing where people give so many fucks about what some half-wit on ESPN says or doesn’t say about Cleveland.

          • alexb

            unfortunately it’s not just one dumbass ex-steeler. And they can absolutely affect the perception of Cleveland around the country. The tone they take with Cleveland is constant and I’m tired of it. I don’t expect them to swing on Cleveland teams cause we dont’ really give the sports world much to get excited about. But I’ve seen them multiple times with multiple different people take runs at Cleveland. When that little boner Rome was there he routinely clowned us. It bothers me because it’s hard enough to keep young educated professionals here.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    Calling for moratorium on LeBron/Art comparisons.

    One was a kid who went to another team via free agency (he may have done so in poor taste via televised spectacle) and the team he left remained in Cleveland.

    The other was an old man who owned a team for decades and moved everything. I was a freshman at Wright State the day of the move and there were about 40 of us who sat in a student center just staring.

    It’s not comparable.

    Art is a NO forever.

    • SeattleBrownsFan

      agreed, the comparisons are not even close. If people are going to defend him, do it on the merits of his own actions. #ArtOut

    • alexb

      it’s fine to have that opinion but if Cleveland fans shit on that induction ceremony it’s going to go over very badly…that’s all i’m concerned about. I don’t give a fuck about anybody named Modell. All i care about is Cleveland not taking a bad rap. Stuff like this absolutely does affect the brand image of the city and the ramifications of that go far beyond simple sports.

      • SeattleBrownsFan

        I agree with you that if Art Fucking Modell gets in the HOF, fans should think about how they represent the city of Cleveland and the image it portrays and not make asses out of themselves…in fact, everyone should just stay away it that happens. It won’t. #ArtOut

        • alexb

          thank you…i understand being pissed and throwing stuff at the modells back in the late 90′s when they left. But to be that hyped up about it still is completely foreign to me and I almost don’t care about football unless it’s the Browns. Infact I don’t care about sports too much in general unless it’s the Browns. The only sports franchis i give two meaningful shits about. But I’m over it. I’m sorry but people have deep personal issue if 15-20 years later they’ll still give Cleveland a black eye because they can’t stand anyone named Modell crossing the border into OH. Infact fuck those people if they make Cleveland look bad. You think Art won’t be smirking somewhere?

          • MichaelTheRed

            yes of course he will. But some people will still do it and you’re right, ESPN will take gleeful opportunity to nut on us. I will never like the Modell family but to go to Canton and potentially troll this “should” be beneath us at this point. It’s ridiculous this is even a question.

      • NeedsFoodBadly

        Cleveland’s going to take a bad rap, no matter what. ESPN will always shit on Cleveland because all they care about is big market shares. Markets like Cleveland will never, ever get the respect they should, so who cares what ESPN thinks?

        • BIKI024

          so when Lebron played for the Cavs we didn’t get any love from ESPN? child please.

          yes, ESPN is a business, they need ratings for their national coverage, but if you want ESPN love towards cleveland, go to http://www.espncleveland.com.

          cities/teams get love from ESPN when they can help them get ratings. What has any team in Cleveland done that is newsworthy for a national audience in recent years?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            Child, please. We didn’t. It is what it is. Sweet feathury jesus.

        • alexb

          who cares what ESPN thinks? You’re not that naive are you?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            You claim you don’t care about sports or sports teams other than the Browns. So why do you care about what ESPN thinks?

          • alexb

            Two words…brand perception. I really don’t like ESPN regardless of their coverage of the Browns or any Cleveland team for that matter. I’m just not naive enough to think one of the most watched networks in the country doesn’t have an effect on the influx of young educated professionals into the area. Rep matters. If you dont’ think listening to the dripping codescension and disdain in Hodge’s voice when he talks about Cleveland could potentially affect future personnel from coming to the Browns you’re kidding yourself. How bout a coach deciding if he wants to come to the Browns or not….then he turns on ESPN and listens to Merill talking about Cleveland being the “absolute worst” landing spot for a coach, even over KC. C’mon dude.

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            c’mon dude. You think a coach relies on ESPN to figure out where to go for a job? absolutely not.

          • alexb

            if he’s debating two landing spots it could absolutely affect his decison. It can affect players decisions and teh coaches know that. Is a coach going to take a job where players don’t like to go because ESPN is “constantly” telling everybody what a dump it is?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            No, because coaches and players actually have better sources of information than Sportscenter, believe it or not. And it’s irrelevant to my initial point, which is ESPN will dump on Cleveland whether the city deserves it or not because it fits their pre-determined narrative. If 5000 or 500 or 5 Clevelanders boo Art, they’ll report it as sour grapes. Which is why you shouldn’t take them seriously in the first place.

          • alexb

            I’m in firm agreement that there are certainly a derth of other factors that go into the decision tree, but city and team perception, at the end, absolutely tips the favor one way or another when things are considered equal. And ESPN, at least for basketball, was absolutely giving us love when Lebron was here…exactly the point Biki was making. Lebron coverage was a revenue generator for them. So how bout if ZERO cleveland fans boo the induction ceremony? How bout we just don’t give two shits about the Modell family? How bout we care about the moves the new regime is making and not worry about a long gone owner who’s actually not even alive anymore.

          • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

            Goddammit I should have pulled the plug on this whole thing about 7 posts north of “brand perception.”

            ESPN LIVES TO TROLL YOU, OKAY. SERIOUSLY THIS CONVERSATION IS DONE NOW, THANKS.

      • MichaelTheRed

        of course it’s going to go over badly, even moreso if the Ravens win the SB. We’ll painted like sour grapes trying to circuitously shit on the Ravens win. Good times

  • BIKI024

    Frownie, looking forward to your thoughts on the Browns hires.

    i never have had a problem with Lombardi, looking forward to what him and the collective braintrust do with the $50m in cap space and plethra of draft picks.

    but in terms of the value proposition Lombardi is expected to offer, I don’t think anyone could say it better than Bill Belichick:

    “The foundation of our program in New England had its roots in
    Cleveland,” Belichick’s statement said. “Mike was instrumental in
    setting up the personnel structure of that program, which is the basis
    for our current system. Mike is one of the brightest football minds I
    have ever worked with. He has a strong understanding of every aspect of
    the game and the process of putting a team together. Mike’s strong work
    ethic combined with his extensive experience in the NFL will give the
    Cleveland Browns an exceptional man for this position.”

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      If Mike Lombardi was so good, why didn’t Belichick marry him? Er, hire him. I know Nantz thinks that’s a “fan question” but I’m just a lowly fan, so that’s all I can ask.

      I’m serious about that question, for what it’s worth. I want to feel good about the Lombardi hiring and buy what you/others are selling on the guy. But the historical lack of interest in the guy is very very troubling.

      • BIKI024

        as Nantz said, who knows if BB hasn’t offered a formal job to Lombardi, over the years. Besides, he’s very happy with what he has in Nick Cesario, Cleveland’s finest.

        Besides, I have it from high authority that Lombardi does consulting for the Pats/Belichick, and sends him scouting reports of players all the time. so while he’s not employed in an official capacity, BB still has “hired” ML to do advanced scouting for him.

        • NeedsFoodBadly

          The latter point is common knowledge, isn’t it? Simmons has talked about it, I think.

          If the hoodie had tried to hire Lombardi formally, wouldn’t someone know about it? Wouldn’t Belichick say so? No one else was calling Lombardi in for interviews or it would be reported on, yeah?

          • alexb

            why do we care about Lombardi one way or the other when he hasn’t yet made one single mngmt decision nor had the time for the decision to pan out? He’s hired, it was it is….same with Chuds,Turner, Horton. We’ll see in 2-3 years won’t we?

          • NeedsFoodBadly

            I care ’cause he’s the new GM.

            “We’ll see in 2-3 years won’t we?” – but this is, perhaps, the best point. I like discussing possibilities, but recognize it’s irrelevant to the larger issue. He’s who we got, and let’s hope he pans out.

          • BIKI024

            again, who’s the say Lombardi was looking to get back in the NFL. maybe he wanted to spend time with his adolescent children, the youngest who just got to college. he probably made a very good living from NFL Network as well as his consulting projects.

            if BB and Banner and many others will go out on the limb for a guy, then he deserves the opportunity and we’ll see how he does.

          • Jim

            “He deserves the opportunity…” No. No he does not. He was given this job based solely on his personal friendship with Joe Banner. Not based on his experience or talent evaluating college players, but because he and Joe go way back. Lombardi said as much in his press conference, asking everyone to give him a chance, and indicating that he has “changed” since his first run with the Browns.

            This is cronyism at its worst.

          • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

            It’s called being a mensch to hangers-on. What’s the odd few K to Belichick? That they’re supposed to be personal friends at all says all the more about the fact that Bill never officially hired him.

    • alexb

      DId i hear right yesterday on the radio that lombardi likes Kruger? He looked like a normal 4-3 DE yesterday…didn’t look like he could cover all that well.

      • Jim

        Lombardi also thought JJ Watt was only a “two down” player. We can play this game all day with Lombardi’s thoughts on players, especially since he prognosticated on television for a living for five plus years.

        • alexb

          you have a link for that Watt comment? I would really like to see that cause that would be dealbreaker for me. I mean maybe nobody knew Watt was gonna be this good but everybody knew he was gonna be good. Did we trade down that pick i forget?

          • Jim

            http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81facdc1/article/five-things-i-liked-about-draft-making-sense-of-what-i-didnt

            “The Texans will need to explain to me where J.J. Watt will play on passing downs and what impact he can make at that position. I liked Watt as a two-down player, not a rusher. And I preferred Cam Jordan as a more all-around player”

            This is obviously some Monday-morning Quarterbacking, but for a guy whose strengths supposedly include talent evaluation (if Joe Banner is to believed) this is breathtakingly wrong.

          • alexb

            wow, what’s interestnig about that is RR wanted Watt in Dallas but, allegedly, got over ruled by Jerry. THat o lineman they took who is a wash got hyped big time by Lomabardi in that link you just posted. Interesting.

    • SeattleBrownsFan

      Kaniki has a good analysis of this “exceptional man’s” ability to pick talent and build teams post-Browns. No spoilers from me! http://jimkanicki.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/mike-lombardi-the-post-belichick-years/

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        hey now!

        • SeattleBrownsFan

          ? I don’t follow. I was being serious, it is a thorough and thoughtful analysis. guess I should have said “fantastic” instead of “good”! ;-)

          • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

            hey now meant in a positive way, thanks for giving me a shout. :-)

          • SeattleBrownsFan

            You’re quickly becoming my 2nd favorite site…after Frowns of course!

  • WooMike

    #ArtOut

  • bupalos

    It all depends on what you think the hall represents. If it’s a place for folks who deserve rewards and veneration, then no, obviously Model has no place there, his story is at the least extremely conflicted. But if it’s the NFL’s history museum, then yes, he definitely does deserve a place. I can’t think of anyone else who better represents the change in the league from a civic-oriented sport with a little money tacked on to a giant commercial money machine with a little bit of sport tacked on.

    Say America had a “hall of fame,” would you put a guy like John Chivington* in there?

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      re chivington: i vote no.

  • http://www.redright88.com/ Tom_RedRight88

    I’d be interested in hearing from someone who thinks Modell should be in the Hall of Fame why the Hall should let in an owner who bankrupted two franchises in a league where you basically have a license to print money.

    He left Cleveland because it was the “only way” he could get enough money to leave the franchise to his family only to run out of money again in Baltimore and have to sell the franchise off.

    For this he deserves the Hall of Fame?

    • SeattleBrownsFan

      My dad was a partner with Arthur Anderson through 1978. Art and the Browns were one of his clients. I can remember dad telling me the story about how excited Art was that he worked out the deal to lease the stadium for $1/year from the city. He thought he was going to make a shitload of money off the deal from concessions, parking, rent from the Indians, etc.

      Dad remembered walking around the stadium with Art listening to his grand plans, etc while he looked at the broken pipes, fixtures, etc and thought “this isn’t going to end very well”!

      I was just reading some stories about the move today and Modell was complaining that he couldn’t even get the city to run water to the second deck of the stadium. What a dumbass! He was the landlord with this deal and it was his responsibility to assume all operating and repair costs with the leasing arrangement.

      you’re right, he had no one to blame but himself for the dumb business moves he made…anyone remember Andre Rison?

      http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d82776d72/Top-Ten-Worst-Free-Agent-Signings-Andre-Rison

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

    While we’re here, can we all agree that the Pats played like the worst kind of entitled East Coast you-know-what’s last night, and that the Curse of Mangoonie gloriously lives on?

    THX.

    • p_forever

      Disagree wrt Brady. He had a bad game, but not because he felt entitled. I mean – Brady is as cocky as Dan Marino ever was (lol – I super loved the pregame Marino interview of brady)and for sure he thinks he’s the best, but that is different from playing entitled. It could be true of some of the other players.

      • actovegin1armstrong

        That game was simple. Welker dropped another game winning ball. It is possible to blame Brady, he hit poor Wesley in a bad place, the hands.

        Welker took his eyes off the ball, that was the game.

    • Redtea

      What exactly are Art Modell’s qualifications for getting in the HOF? He didn’t win a lot of championships. People may be confused and think that he was the owner during the many championships in the 50′s and 60′s. He wasn’t. The majority of his teams weren’t good. Even if he contributed significantly to Monday Night Football, is that all he had to do be a HOF owner?

  • BigDigg

    Honest question – would the vitriol for Art be less if the Ravens wound up an average franchise and the new incarnate Browns competitive? It’s extra salt in the wound that his “new” franchise became one of the best in the league while Lerner and Son’s Browns languished as one of the worst in professional sports.

    I think there’s an alternate universe out there where we wind up in a better place instead of wandering aimlessly in the NFL desert for 13 years (and counting). I wonder how much the failings of the Lerners have amplified our negative perspective on the whole situation.

    For the record and so people don’t think i’m trolling – Art can rot in hell and i wouldn’t support his HOF candidacy for any number of rational reasons well stated above.

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      dammit, the issue is that he was a corrupt and failed businessman without HOF credentials.

      it’s not personal.

      you, i, or frowns could negotiate an NFL contract once wellington mara has allowed new york ad revenue to split evenly among all franchises.

      it’s like… really. not personal. art is simply NOT hall-of-fame worthy on ANY level.

      • BigDigg

        Sorry – i agree with you there, but the question isn’t HOF worthiness. I’m wondering if this town would have moved on by this point if the new Browns were a credible franchise. And as much as Art deserves for this stain to be on his permanent record, you can argue that his portion of the blame should be limited to the 3 years we spent without football and of course the use of taxpayer dollars to build a new stadium (which is pretty par for the course for most NFL stadiums).

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          speaking for me: no. no combo of current browns success or ravens failure would change my perspective.

    • NeedsFoodBadly

      For me personally, the answer is definitely yes.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    cant believe we’re going through this again.

    you know what’s funny about the ART MODELL TV NEGOTIATOR myth?

    after modell signed a deal with CBS for $14.6MM/yr in 1964.. the AFL signed a deal with NBC for $36MM/yr.

    lolololololololllllll …. STOP! please stop.

    do we have to talk about purchasing browns with 6% of his own money? firing paul brown? giving jim brown ultimatums?
    do we have to do the free stadium lease detail again? the screwing of the indians on luxury boxes? the inadequate maintenance of the baseball field (world series of rock aftermath)? the rejection of participation in the gateway project?

    this is even before the lies about negotiating after the season and the gross betrayal in general. i dont even want to mention that, even though it fits. if modell had not moved the browns, he would be borderline HOF-er but only due to longevity.

    • atdietz80

      The Indians couldn’t draw 1 million fans back then. They are a big reason why Modell lost money every year…unless a rock concert was staged. Why should they have been entitled to the luxury suite money? Modell put the suites in during his heading of Cleveland Stadium Corp. I don’t like Modell, but you can’t give him shit over screwing the Indians. The Indians got a great lease deal from him even though the team blew. My take on this is heavily influenced by the book “Fumble” by Michael Poplar. Btw, Poplar also heaps tons of vitriol towards Mike Lombardi for how he handled the dawn of free agency compared to how much money Modell had (which was none).

      • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

        let’s cut to the chase: tell us all why modell DOES deserve to be in the HOF.
        (hint: tv contract signing for less than half of competing expansion leagues are not HOF credentials.)

        • atdietz80

          I have the TV deals as follows:

          AFL 1960-1969 total TV rights: $53.1 Million
          NFL 1960-1969 total TV rights: $141.1 Million

          http://www.vanderbilt.edu/econ/faculty/Vrooman/VROOMAN-NFL.pdf

          There is a chart on page 12 of the document. I have no reason to defend Art. I just want to make sure that I get my facts straight. What he did to this city has no defense. Maybe the TV deals get done without him in the picture. Pete Rozelle is not around to verify any of this. I’m just kind of done with blind hatred of people. It is not worth the energy. Either he gets in for the TV deal or he does not get in at all.

          • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

            see footnote 13: NBC solidified the AFL with a 5-year deal for $36 million plus $6.7 million for postseason. ‘total rights, AFL: 42.5; total rights.’ … was tripled a year later by the NFL-CBS deal.

            So Art left money on the table, AFL made a richer contract. Right. It’s the exact same verbiage as the Wiki link, probably the source.

            anyway, sorry.. i missed your case for art to get into the hall of fame.

            i’m getting the part where you say cleveland doesnt like him. ‘blind hatred.’

            i’m kinda done with that too, thanks. this isn’t about that. you want to paint me as ‘blindly hating.’ but all i asked you was why art should be in canton.

            nice guy? fine. hof-er in anything? not a chance. it you think objective review is ‘blind hatred’ then it’s your problem, not mine.

  • MichaelTheRed

    #artout, but could honestly care less anymore.

  • willy loman

    This whole #ArtIn/#ArtOut thing is just a bit of shameless hashtaggery to drum up some publicity for KNR. The HC/GM search is over and they need a new topic to “move the meter”. Are we really supposed to believe that Grossi, who has vehemently railed against Art’s candidacy time and time again, suddenly thinks differently because the guy died?

  • SteamingPileOfCraphonsoThorpe

    #ArtOut x 10^100 (googl FTW!)

  • http://www.facebook.com/scott.l.spence Scott L Spence

    Fired Paul Brown and Marty Schottenheimer, moved one of most storied franchises in sports because he couldn’t make money selling out 80,000 seats. thumbs down

  • Sam

    Ever notice how all the ArtIn arguments are nihilistic, obsequious, or both? Yeah, the people that run football all have way more money than us and probably don’t care all that much about us, but you’d think if we’re electing people to a Hall of Fame for the sport, we could elect people who made us FORGET about all that, who INSPIRED us, not who rubbed their exalted status in our faces in the cruelest, most cowardly ways possible?

    If you think you owe Art Modell a goddam thing, that’s your first mistake.

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