Montreal Coaches are a thing now

by Cleveland Frowns on January 9, 2013

We have a column cooking on certain important implications of the emerging species of “Montreal Coach” and more on the fallout of Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner’s incredible Boner in ‘Zona with Chip Kelly, which is more than just to point out that the combination of Canada and Cleveland Browns has a rather encouraging record of success. But the tide of [salt] is beating at this ivory tower more relentlessly than usual this week, so it might have to wait until tomorrow.

MONTREAL COACH

Anyway, the quietest days from us here are more often than not the best days for you, so please have at it and we’ll look forward to checking back in ASAP. Thank you. In the meantime, here’s a wild story about Mangini and Matt Schaub.

  • etc

    What’s the consensus on hiring Rob Ryan, No? Even if he brings Mangini in as his DC?

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      The consensus is that this is not the start I was looking for this morning.

  • http://www.redright88.com/ Tom_RedRight88

    Well, if nothing else, Trestman at least knows something about coaching in cold weather.

    On a different note, Ohio school’s are finally seeing the “windfall” from the casinos as each of Ohio’s 1.8 million students will get about $21 on a per-pupil basis.

    Maybe the schools could let it ride at the Horseshoe and turn it into a real jackpot!

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      The amount of societal good that could be done from letting those kids go into that casino with $21 and having the buses ready to take them home 45 seconds later might be a good idea.

      It’s a real world math lesson.

      The casinos would never allow it. I mean teach a child that it’s a rigged game. Nonsense.

      • Petefranklin

        My brother in law’s wife’s grandma won 3.8 takehome at a dump downtown, just saying.So I guess it could happen…eventually, but not to me because I find games of chance very boring. BTW do you guys and gals want me to post any baskets that I’m playing? I’ve been profitible in NBA this year.

        • Petefranklin

          bucks +6

          • Petefranklin

            OUTRIGHT! No love no more plays.

  • Chris P.

    Okay, finally settling in to this house and trying to wrap my arms around whatever the hell the browns are up to, and can we get to the meat of the problem here?

    This is the second straight fucking owner we’ve had whose fortune is mostly derived from the fact that his rich and successful dad had urges and needs.

    As much as big Al (and while we’re talking about people named “Al” and their urges below the belt, can I say speaking of “Al” that they make some fine ass eastern european sausages in downtown barberton? Cripe, god bless ethnic food and immigrants. Anyway, my employment is largely due to a lot of people who believe immigrants need to shuffle the hell back unless they’re doing their genteel wife’s chores, so I digress) – As much as Al Lerner profited off people needing a finance plan for lunch at least the old man made his own buck. There’s something to be said for proving yourself amongst a society of equals and making yourself a bajillion dollars that qualifies you to compete with other successful bajillionaires in a cutthroat business.

    When you get a successful company on the upswing and keep it upswiniging it’s a job well done, but I’m not entirely sure getting from one to ten bajillion is as useful a skill as getting from zero to one. I’m yet to see a whole lot from this dude that makes me think he can stand out among a group of equals. Other than the fact that this guy seems to really like football, which I do appreciate, he’s not really standing out from the last guy.

    And that’s kinda getting to the heart of the problem here. It’s one thing if I see it. I’m just a guy who likes football too. It’s another thing if these “best and brightest” guys are seeing it and responding by running 2000 miles west, but not until they meet with the Buffalo Bills who may or may not be in Toronto or Los Angeles or Stuttgart at this time in 2016.

    And then guys who are well respected and coach the alma matter of the unquestionably greatest player to ever play the sport who happened to be your running back at the most glorious time of your franchise’s history meets with you and sees that your job will likely be open but after meeting with the braintrust thinks it’s important to sign with BUF/TOR/LA/STU before you can even call him again.

    So now we’re to this. We’ll get a coach, and we may even get the right one. We may get lucky and get Lovie or Whisenhunt or someone else who we don’t know yet may be the cat’s ass here.

    But it;s increasingly clear that if we get that guy, it’ll be because we get lucky. And I’m all for that. But it won’t be because the new owner gives us a competitive advantage over other teams. It will be in spite of it.

    • Petefranklin

      Not hiring the first candidate to be interviewed (marone) is a clear step in the right direction in my book. Hopefully the interviewing process itself will make the right choice clear as a bell.

      • Chris P.

        Well there a certain number of candidates and you have to interview a minority, but we really only cared about kelly. any interviews that happened before that were clearly not serious interviews.

        In reality we tried our hardest to hire the first candidate we gave a real interview to.

  • rgrunds

    I live close to Montreal. Move the Browns there. Remove them from the sink of public failure which is Cleveland. It was a good franchise. Bring them to an elegant place where the civil administration is not being incarcerated.

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

      ” Bring them to an elegant place where the civil administration is not being incarcerated.”

      Not incarcerated, just overlooked.

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/montreals-corruption-culture-needs-to-be-wiped-out-whistleblower-says/article6762552/

      • rgrunds

        Dammit, you weren’t supposed to know that. At least they fail in a Latinized, elegant manner.

    • Shadow_play

      Can I come with?

    • alexb

      what so 1000 drunk frenchies can show up every game with Canadiens jerseys? And mutter to each other “where’s the fooking ice eh?” “No ice or skates, what kind of sport is this eh?” Have you heard how stupid the buffaloe games in Toronto are? Canadians just don’t do football mate.

      • nj0

        In what way were they stupid? Every Canadian I’ve ever met has loved the NFL.

      • rgrunds

        Maybe the drunk guys will show up with the old Canadiens jerseys with the concentric, colored circles. Really make your retinas ache.

      • rgrunds

        That’s “where de ice?”

        • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

          I thought it was “Où est le glace putain?”

        • alexb

          hahaha, yes you are correct. My mistake for lumping in the refined Quebeccers with everything west of the James bay.

        • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

          “Throw me down the stairs my shoes.”

  • ChuckKoz

    I went to some Alouettes games when I lived in Montreal. Totally good times.

    • Chris P.

      Never saw the Alouettes, but did see the Expos at Olympic a few times which was kinda surreal

      • technivore

        Same here, I saw an Expos game at Stade Olympique in ’01 and it was a weird, weird experience. Best part was an inebriated old dude behind me yelling “Oui monsieur!!” as a Geoff Blum HR left the yard.

  • nj0

    The more I read about Trestman, the more I want the Browns to hire him. Sounds like a great football mind and high character guy.

    • nj0

      “17 seasons in the league, 13 playoff appearances”

      • Ron

        I’m really liking him as well. Hopefully the Browns make a serious go at him. I also love the tie-in to the Bernie days.

        Unfortunately, that also gives me nightmares of losing 3 AFCC games to Peyton Manning. (which, in light of the past 13 years, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world)

        In my alternate reality, Bernie gets himself straightened out and Trestman hires him as the QB coach.

  • vespo09
  • vespo09

    Biki, you posted about Peter King picking T.J. Ward as an all-pro, right? Don Banks did the same thing: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130108/revisiting-nfl-predictions/?sct=hp_wr_a3&eref=sihp

    Is this an SI thing? I thought Ward played fine this year, but where is this all-pro talk coming from?

    • eldaveablo

      The sorry state of NFL safeties? He’s really good against the run, mediocre in pass coverage, and has a bit of a fear factor. Apparently that is what people look for?

  • SeattleBrownsFan

    while I haven’t followed Trestman’s career, I do remember liking him a lot when he was the QB coach and OC with the Browns — Bernie and the Browns offense had some great years in the two he was in Cleveburg. Browns made the playoffs in 88 and the AFC championship in 89 while he was involved with the offense. Kosar had a great year in ’89 and Slaughter set franchise receiving records that year too. But we all know how those games turned out.

    looking up some more info on him, every team he’s joined has had a lot of success at all levels – college, NFL and CFL. Every QB and offense he’s worked with in the NFL had great years individually and as a team after he joined them and then there are the championships he’s won north of the border.

    seems like a smart guy (has a law degree, but we won’t hold that against him, at least not at this site anyways!), has been successful in the college ranks, NFL and CFL AND is an offensive minded guy. Additionally his age is right in the sweet spot that I believe they are looking for for a long-term coach.

    my two cents (FWIW), he’d be my guy.

    • CleveLandThatILove

      Mine too. Bernie was on KNR last evening describing Trestman basically pounding the fundamentals into him at Miami 30 years ago.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

      So for example, let’s say Trestman is the HC. He’ll pick someone as OC who is sympatico with him. Fine, sure, no problem. But who would you want then as DC — Jauron or someone else?

      I ask because there are two competing thoughts here — one, keeping Jauron around with a new offense-minded HC is good because Jauron brings continuity, deep knowledge and experience, and the players seem to respect him. The competing thought is that your new HC should clean house and eradicate every bit of Shurmer-stink as humanly possible right now to the ushers and ticket-takers.

      Thoughts?

      • eldaveablo

        I would lean towards keeping Jauron. My eyes tell me he is improving the D- better numbers would make this more certain, but things are improving. I think our secondary personnel are more to blame for defensive faults. If things don’t work out in a year or two, he can be replaced. I also like that he was a HC in the NFL. Trestman could probably use the insight.

  • GrandRapidsRustlers

    Realizes that Trestman took Montreal to the playoffs with a 40 year old QB this year!

    He is a perfect fit!

    • Petefranklin

      Perfect when the NFL decides to expand the playoffs to include 75% of the teams like the CFL does.

      • GrandRapidsRustlers

        Hey now they went 11-7 and won the division. It’s not his fault the league only has 8 teams!

        • Petefranklin

          I remember cussing Trestman back in the day when he took over Lindy Infante’s high flying offense. It may not have been Trestmans fault, but it got pretty vanilla compared to what we had under Lindy. In Cleveland I guess the O coordinater is always under fire though, at least every one that I can remember except Lindy. He could probably “coach” this bunch into a 8-8 season next year though.

  • http://twitter.com/JRichTCF Jeff Rich

    Love the Schaub/Mangini piece, and naturally start trying to comprehend the butterfly effect of The Jets landing Schaub for Abraham, Turner for the pick. I’m thinking Mangini is still there; maybe with Mack in ’09 since he doesn’t get Mangold in this parallel world.

    What becomes of the Browns, Rex Ryan, Mark Sanchez, etc.? Crazy.

    • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris Mc

      As long as we’re discussing parallel worlds, I’d like to talk about the one where I kidnap Dawgpound Mike and he never makes his meeting with Lerner.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        Now we’re getting somewhere. You guys are the goddamn best.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

        Just make sure you leave both Mike and Randy in the world where Spock has a beard…

    • http://twitter.com/JRichTCF Jeff Rich

      I forgot to mention Favre

  • SteamingPileOfCraphonsoThorpe

    I would like to echo RodO’s comment yesterday to the effect that it’s important to get the right guy for the job, not necessarily the sexiest pick (and swinging and missing at the sexy pick is not always a bad thing). Honestly, fans will howl about any selection that is not Gruden/Cowher/Saban-esque. But this “Montreal Coach” kind of fits the criteria that I posted to Biki a couple days ago:

    1) long-term success at the coordinator/HC level – check

    2) success at more than one stop, to negate the “anyone can win with Tom Brady as the QB” effect – check

    3) innovative mind instead of mindless devotion to a “system” – maybe check? [not really sure, but given the numbers of different QB's this guy has had to work with, I suspect he fits that]

    4) not a guy no one else even has on the radar (a.k.a. the Shurmur Principle) – check

    From what I’ve seen of the CFL, it is a fast-paced game and it would bode well for being able to think on the run and manage the clock. So, yay??

    • nj0

      Seriously, as offensive coordinator he has taken the Lions (Scott Mitchell), the Raiders (Rich Gannon), and the Cardinals (Jake the Snake) to the playoffs. The guy exudes anti-suck.

      • nj0

        He turned Rich Gannon into a goddamn machine in 2002, a QBing, TD-throwing, MVP-winning 37-year old machine.

        • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

          Montreal exudes anti-suck as well, it should be pointed out.

          • Wiseoldredbeard

            Excluding super-sex, of course.

          • nj0

            Exactly, to such levels it propelled the Expos clear out of the city, providence, and country.

            Double anti-suck will result in a singularity of awesome such as 59-31, 5-3 postseason record, winning the East four times, five playoff appearances, and two Grey Cups, all in five years.

          • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

            love the montreal luv.

            ya know, your old pal kanick collected the glass sale commisions on 1250 rene levesque and 1000 de la gauchetierre.

            used to take my frangelica on rocks just like the natives.
            been too long.

  • SteamingPileOfCraphonsoThorpe

    One other thought: what do Frownie’s Fanatics think of the fact that having Trestman in the building would likely mean some kind of role for Uncle Bernie? Personal problems, and Twitter nonsense aside, helpful to the team or detrimental?

    • BigDigg

      I think Bernie’s still got a great football mind piled below miles of baggage. Kinda like having Shooter from Hoosiers around.

      Worry here is that he’s had visions of a greater role in the past (I believe he led some investor attempts to purchase the franchise originally). As long as he understands his role is largely ceremonial show pony stuff (ala Jim Brown) and accepts it for what it is… Can’t hurt.

      • SteamingPileOfCraphonsoThorpe

        I agree, except I would replace the words “largely ceremonial show pony stuff” with “a structured, limited role”. That is, he would be one of the voices as part of a team in evaluating players…he seems to have a good eye for identifying talent. And maybe having a regular, day-to-day routine would help him get his life back in order. If he wants to do so.

  • Bryan

    Thoughts on Zimmer? We are interviewing him today. Not an offensive guy, but a guy who has had a lot of success. Started as a 4-3 guy and then did 3-4 under Parcells. I could be talked into him.

    I am OK with Trestman too. Seems very sharp. Plus he would probably give my boy Weeds another chance. More Weeds for everyone is a good thing.

    I still don’t get the idea that Banner/Haslam screwed up in any way in Zona. They went hard after their guy, potentially thought they had him, lost him, and then moved on. The whole “well, they mishandled the PR” angle is silly. They can’t control the Twittersphere. No man can. Not even Jose Canseco.

    • dukem1

      The Bona’ in Zona

  • Deputy Glitters

    Tony Grossy. Nice.

    • Ron

      15 years of world class talent + 1 ring = meh

      I don’t understand the fascination with Cowher.

      • Bryan

        Cowher appeals to the traditionalist view of a head coach as a “leader of men” who will get in their face and inspire them. He is not, however, an X and O innovator, which is what everyone is seeking today. But I totally get why Grossi loves him. My dad loves him as well. And if you too are around 35 years old, I bet your dad loves him.

      • Deputy Glitters

        It had nothing to do with Cowher. I just thought the fact they or Tony himself misspelled Grossi.

        • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

          Love Button.

      • alexb

        He would have had 2 or 3 if it weren’t for that Cowboys team and Greg Loyd didn’t prematurely get his carreer ended by a freakin spider bite of all things. And remember that team that Tomlin took to the SB a couple years later was built by Cowher. Cowher may not be an offensive “innovator” but who cares this is the AFC North. Cowher will build an offense that pounds you in the B hole with the run game till you start to cheat up then it will mail you the receipt over the top. That’s my kind of offense. We’d be “fools” not to welcome Bill Cowher here with open arms. Remember, having a guy like that will entice talent to want to come here. No disprespect to this guy in Montreal, but is he gonna pull needed free agents here like a Gruden or Cowher will?

  • Bryan

    Chud?

    Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot

    Breaking: #Browns interviewing Panthers OC Rob Chudzinski today in Berea, source tells PD. Former #Browns coordinator.

    • etc

      Joe Person of the Charlotte Observer confirmed the interview. Love the fact that someone is named Joe Person.

    • alexb

      just don’t listen to her. Like not a thing. She’s just typing stuff to see herself type at this point.

  • nj0

    Here’s a glowing article about Trestman from 2009.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12399910

    As a fan of the 90′s Bill teams, anybody who garners comparisons to Marv Levy is okay with me.

  • nj0

    Irate Clevelander point of order inquiry: At what point can I start complaining that the Browns are interviewing too many candidates?

    • GrandRapidsRustlers

      After Shurmur. Never.

      • nj0

        First rule of being a Clevelander- there is ALWAYS a time to start complaining.

    • SeattleBrownsFan

      It does seem like they are making this a beauty pageant all of a sudden. That said, in addition to being a “leader of men”, the new HC also has to be eye-candy to counteract Banner’s mug.

      • nj0

        I say we go for fugliest front office.

        • SeattleBrownsFan

          Browns are off to a good start!

  • BIKI024

    what’s over/under on how many games RG3 plays next season? 5?

    • Cranky M

      New report is that he needs total reconstructive surgery on his knee, will miss at least 6-8 months.
      So once again, my point that i wouldn’t make that trade for RG3 because he’ll never be able to stay healthy is looking pretty damn reasonable now, no?

      • alexb

        most people with a brain would have agreed with you that you don’t mortgage a decade worth of drafts for one guy, no matter how good he is. I know they beat us with Cousins, that stings, but honestly the Redskins suck a ballbag without RG. You can’t build an offense like that where one part goes missing and it’s all over. Morris is a decent downhill back but he made his dinner this year from defense’s not being able to collapse the holes because they’re staring at RG. My prediction is that if they have to run Cousins next year Morris will be “at best” a middle of the road back. He won’t be nearly as durable when guys are actually hitting him instead of him hitting them which he’s done all season cause nobody’s moving forward when it’s possible RG held the ball. Somebody the other day here said that Morris was a better pick than Trent…..that’s crazy talk. Trent would have run for 1800 yds behind RG.

        • bupalos

          It’s absolutely indisputable that Morris was a better pick than Trent. HE WENT IN THE 6th ROUND. And honestly if you didn’t know the hype and just watched these guys on the field, I don’t think anyone could have a strong preference for Trent at this point. The guy has a lot of power and talent but at least currently has a terrible approach to the line. He’s not even above average right now, Spins McGee Hardesty was just as effective if not moreso, so unless you’re ready to argue that he would have had 2000 yards on Washington….

          Maybe he’s just injured, maybe there are excuses, but the bottom line is the bottom line. We could have two sweet linebackers and Morris for that trent pick.

          And I liked the pick at the time, just like practically everyone else.

          • alexb

            morris just runs through holes that aren’t there in Cleveland. He’s just doing what any average back in the NFL would do. If you can’t run through the gaping holes left for you by that offensive line and the defense staying home cause they’re terrified of RG breaking to the outside, you don’t belong in the NFL. Trent is bigger, faster, stronger…has better moves, just everything. Do i have issues with the way Trent ran for part of the season, yeah absolutely….but it’s been tempered somewhat by the fact that he was running with straight up broken ribs, not just bruised. Morris might not have even started in Cleveland. He would have been the short yardage downhill back and maybe subbed at FB cause anything is better than Marecic. And i’m not down on Hardesty, but he couldn’t have carried the load throughout the season that Trent did. Hardesty does well when he comes in as a change of pace back. If he’s in there for more than one or two plays though he gets exposed quick. Trent is going to be a workhorse back like the NFL hasn’t seen in some time. U just have to remember he’s running in Cleveland without a real fullback.

          • alexb

            and the career upsides to both is also incomparable. Trent squatted 700lbs just a couple weeks after knee surgery….that kid has so much more to grow it’s ridiculous.

        • eldaveablo

          Never underestimate Shanny’s ability to make a late round RB look good. He has an eye for guys that fit his zone blocking scheme, and the guy can design an offense.

          He’ll make Cousins look good too. RG3 is a singular talent, but I doubt he’ll be able to maintain it. Poor man’s Bo Jackson? OK, I’m being dramatic, but consider me someone who likes that the Browns didn’t make that trade – especially since Shurm is no Shanny, and would have wasted RG3′s potential.

          • alexb

            completely agree

      • BIKI024

        yes, i felt the same exact way, it’s your boy Frownie that felt otherwise.

  • Cranky M

    I posted this on the last thread, not realizing that there was a new one and that nobody would see that. But i can’t pass up a chance to gloat about being right, so:
    I said all year that Teo was absurdly overrated. $ tackles/game, no forced fumbles, no sacks. No way in hell he should be a top 10 pick. I TOLD YOU SO!

    • Cranky M

      I also said that there was no way in hell RG3 would ever make it through a full NFL season without suffering a significant injury. So far, i am also right about that.

    • Cranky M

      *4 tackles/game

  • The Cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs

    The cards are aligning for a Mangini / Ryan reunion tour with the shows starting in Cleveland!

  • Wiseoldredbeard

    How about a Zimmer/Trestman combo (assuming we could get Trestman to leave an HC job in CFL for an OC or OC/AHC job in NFL). Here are the pluses. 1) Zimmer can run both a 4-3 and 3-4 and the Browns would have an inevitable leg up on the future of being able to run both interchangeably through a game (especially considering our current roster). 2) Trestman is an actual QB guy (unlike Shurmur who appears to have essentially ruined three QBs), and since he has worked with Weeden in the past would have a good idea from the start of how good he actually is (or needs to be replaced). 3) Taking Zimmer away from Cinci strengthens us in the division, and because he’s in our division he probably already knows a lot more about our roster than the other possibilities. 4) Zimmer doesn’t take sh*t from no one – a quality I find redeeming. 5) Because MKK hasn’t reported it yet it’s an actual possibility.
    Thoughts?

    • bupalos

      This “worked with Weeden in the past” thing seems very overblown. Sounds to me like he worked him out a couple days. But it’s fine that they seem to have at least a working business relationship.

      I hope they liked Trestman, he seems like he’d be a great hire all around. Any combination of he and Zimmer seems good to me, but I guess said combination could only be Zimmer as head and Trestman as OC.

      • Bryan

        Yeah. I think Zim would be have to be HC in this scenario. But I imagine Trestman would be OK with that.

        As an aside, I remember many years ago when Jim Tressel rose to prominence in Ohio, I always thought he was Trestman because I remembered Trestman’s name from when he was the Browns offensive coordinator in the 80′s and Tressel’s name sounded the same. What were the odds that two offensive coaches would become famous in Ohio both with last names that start with Tres? Apparently higher than I thought.

        Sorry if that anecdote was terribly boring for everyone else.

        • dukem1

          Keep ‘em comin’. I love that sh*t.

  • alexb
  • nj0

    More proof of the Curse- Lofton & Alomar off the HOF ballot after one year. There is a better than average chance that the only player to make the Hall from those the 95 and 97 team will be Eddie Murray (and more for his decade with the O’s than with us).

    • nj0

      Oh. And Winfield.

    • Steve

      Ramirez deserves to go, and Thome will.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        For sure.

        • nj0

          Posnanski, one of the few sportswriters I respect and a BIG HOF game, said yesterday in an online chat that he has been amazed at the lack of support for Thome.

  • Bryan

    This is such a classic MKC move. Shefter reports actual news. MKC tweets the same thing 2 minutes later and cites Shefter. Any of us could do her job. She is essentially a professional re-tweeter:

    2m Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
    Former #Browns OC Brad Childress in KC today interviewing for OC job or to be advisor to HC Andy Reid, espn’s Adam schefter reporting.

    7m Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
    Browns OC Brad Childress is in KC today, where he could be hired as either OC or as an advisor to new Chiefs head coach Andy Reid.

    • jpftribe

      Agreed, professional retweeter and gossip columnist extraordinaire.

      I particularly liked her statement regarding the Browns being happy just to show up at a Super Bowl. Not winning it is good enough for them…. #knucklehead

  • Seth

    I do not know nor do I pretend to know how this is going to play out in the short or the long term. However, here is what I do know: so far Jimmy Haslam has spent the beginning of his first off-season following Joe Banner, an non-football executive (his main skill is contracts and business decisions, not talent and football evaluation) with a chip on his shoulder who thinks he should be a football executive, chasing the new Moby Dick of coaches, interviewing everyone and their mother minus the one coach who had an actual record of success (Andy Ried) because apparently Banner and the all the Eagles people have some sort of Guns-n-Roses-esque dynamic between them, set the table for an organization that will be led by the coach not the GM but now there is no coach on the market qualified to do so (as a consequence Joe Banner will be leading the organization) and once again allowed Cleveland to be a national joke. The NFL should think about adopting a relegation policy because this franchise is playing very far out of its league, I’m thinking we would be a serious contender for a wildcard spot in the CFL.

    • nj0

      To add to your Eagles FO as GnR metaphor, there was zero chance for Heckert to be retained. Not to praise Heckert or say he deserved to come back, but I think he at least earned a chance to make his case.

      Basically, our entire franchise depends on the football savy of Joe Banner, a guy who got into football because his friend bought a team and hired him.

      • Seth

        And that is really the crux of my argument. Taking the metaphor a step further, from the surface (granted I do not have d2d access) it seems Joe Banner is turning the Browns into his own solo project to show everyone else that he was the smartest guy in the room in Philly. The problem is there is no evidence what-so-ever that Joe Banner was the driving force behind the Eagles success. Perhaps more important, Banner seems to be making decisions (not even considering Reid, firing Heckert on the spot) based on personal feelings and not any legitimate business concern. I am not a huge Heckert fan (and if they didn’t want him to have final roster control it’s understandable so long as the alternative is not giving Joe Banner someone not qualified to hold that power final say) and I’m not sure Reid is a great coach but it’s troublesome that the only guy that Haslam seems to listen to seems to be on a mission to prove himself as a football genius not to improve the team. Lerner, justifiably, took heat for giving the keys to the Holmgren administration and walking away, but I won’t view Haslam as any less of failure just because he is standing next to Banner as he fails miserably.

        • BIKI024

          good grief

        • jpftribe

          man that’s harsh.

          Banner is a contract guy, so de facto he has the last say on personnel. If he doesn’t want, or can’t reach agreement with a specific player, he won’t be on the field. This is a subtlety that has been under discussed and under reported.

          However, it does not mean he is going to be sitting in the draft room telling the GM or personnel director who to take in the third round. In fact, I would think his biggest influence would be in the FA market, and even then it would be related to sign ability and cap space.

          Let these guys make a hire before we hang them out to dry. Leave the fantasyland speculation to Grossi and MKC, they become so inept at it, it is starting to borderline entertainment .

          • nj0

            How do you know it means he won’t be sitting in the draft room telling the GM who to take?

            Just saying….

        • Chris P.

          I don’t think Reid is the guy either, but it’s also troublesome that banner dismisses him so summarily on one hand, while pointing to Reid as the main decision he’s made on which we should base our judgement of his football organizational acumen on the other.

          Maybe it’s not the giant cluster I perceive it to be. But I don’t have this perception for no reason at all.

    • Bryan

      I want to see who Haslam and Banner actually hire before we throw them under the bus. I can see why people are annoyed with them, but they honestly have not even made a major single decision yet. And the apparent strategy they are implementing so far (pursuing Kelly hard and then regrouping) is reasonable and has come at a small cost (the pursuit of Kelly has only led to the loss of Marrone. All other candidates remain on the market).

      Let’s see what they pull out of their hat.

    • eldaveablo

      I don’t think we are giving Banner enough credit as a “football guy”. He has worked in the league for how many years? Teams he ran went to the playoffs how many times? The guy must know football. Maybe not an Xs & Os level, but that’s not his job. I don’t think he was nose deep in Excel Spreadsheets and contracts every hour he was at work. He’s hired successful coaches and ran a winning team. Let’s allow him to make some football decisions (or maybe even *gasp* see how the decisions work?) before we play high & mighty with his football knowledge.

      • Seth

        A fair point, being that I am a Cleveland fan I am damaged goods when it comes to new regimes so you’ll have to forgive my skepticism of Joe Banner. I will say that I felt the same way you feel about Banner about Holmgren and if I learned something from that it would be that you cannot underestimate the size of these guys’ egos and how much they allow their outsized egos to guide decisions that even the everyday person can see are bad decisions.

        Now Banner is not Holmgren and both deserves and needs lee-way to get the organization set up the way he wants if he will ever have a chance of success. However, the way you handle things publicly matters and any good businessperson is aware of downside scenarios for any action before she takes action. The Chip Kelly debacle was a failure on this front. Maybe it’s the bone-headed local media, maybe it’s the organization, maybe it’s the national narrative that the city is a joke, maybe it’s like most things and it’s the many different factors all happening at once but being able to navigate these situations in a smoother way is in my own opinion part of being a successful franchise. Banner needs to establish credibility and will not help him.

        By November maybe this is all be moot because the team is winning, but maybe (probably?) that won’t be what happens and Banner will be in the midst of yet another losing narrative that stretches back to the early days of the off-season. Just sayin’ this movie may have just start but the opening scenes look familiar to me.

        Personally, I am all for Whisenhunt. It’s a safe move that no one will question and will likely guarantee the tiny amount (I’m talking like a 7-9 season) of success that Banner needs to have some credibility as the head of the Browns.

        • dukem1

          Safe move=fail.

  • Warburton MacKinnon

    They should at least interview Brad Seeley

  • Bryan

    MKC is relentless. This latest tweet cites an AP report that itself has no useful information specific to the Browns She literally adds ZERO information to the public sphere about the team she is paid to cover.

    Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot
    AP/Indy reports #Colts OC Bruce Arians still in hospital and one of his HC interviews canceled. 4 on slate were: Eagles, Bears, #Browns, SD

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