The Cleveland Indians don’t really care about your opinion on Chief Wahoo: VP Bob Dibiasio writes to a fan about the logo and ‘Indians’ name

by Cleveland Frowns on November 5, 2013

The Cleveland Indians made national news a couple of weeks ago by jamming a question about their trademark Jim Crow/Third Reich relic Chief Wahoo into the middle of an otherwise run-of-the-mill marketing survey posed to fans.

If you have to ask

“Please rate the extent to which you agree or disagree with the following statements in regards to the Indians’ Chief Wahoo logo,” the survey asks, presenting its subjects with the following five propositions of varying absurdity and complete irrelevancy to the question of whether Chief Wahoo has a place as a symbol of anything decent in 2013:

  • This logo reflects the heritage of the Indians
  • I feel a strong positive emotional connection to this logo
  • This logo makes me proud of the Indians
  • This logo represents more than the team – it represents the city of Cleveland
  • This logo is an important part of my support for the Indians

The decision to poll fans about the logo is apparently in response to an unprecedented wave of negative public opinion against the use of Native American imagery in sports that reached a new apex when President Obama recently spoke out against the NFL’s Washington Redskins name. But in a nation that will shut itself down before abiding duly enacted laws proposed by a black President, it can be hard to muster excitement about what might happen in response to that President’s opinions on sports logos. And as much as folks might want to believe otherwise, it’s hard to see the Indians’ survey on Wahoo as anything but a cynical excuse grab right out of Redskins owner Daniel Snyder’s playbook.

“An overwhelming majority [i.e., 'majority'] of Washington fans still support the [Redskins] name,” Travis Waldron points out at Think Progress, “and whenever the debate escalates, Snyder runs to them for protection and affirmation, whether through polls or focus groups or long, fact-free letters to season ticket holders.” Of course, Snyder has stated in no uncertain terms that the Washington football team will “NEVER” change its name on his watch, and as recently as last April, Indians President Mark Shapiro affirmed the last public statement of club owner Larry Dolan on the issue when he explained that “Chief Wahoo isn’t going anywhere.” So while the Indians’ recent survey might appear to represent incremental progress on this issue, it remains quite clear, as Waldron notes, that “until Cleveland quits listening only to people whose opinions they already know (and maybe prefer) and starts acknowledging the people who have good reasons to have real problems with the Wahoo logo, they’re never going to truly change.”

Craig Robinson of Flip Flop Fly Ball made a graphic showing that Chief Wahoo appeared on the Indians’ caps in 100 of 163 games last season (Note that it remained on the uniform’s sleeve for 162 of them.). And while one might want to be encouraged by the club’s apparent decision to drop Wahoo from spring training uniforms, Curtis Danberg, its VP of Communications, recently confirmed that “spring training [in Arizona] is a different animal,” because, unlike Cleveland, there’s actual Native Americans there, evoking a criminal who’s proudly smart enough to keep from committing any crimes while anyone is watching.

Finally, if it wasn’t already hard enough to believe that the organization is interested in effecting any meaningful change on this issue, here’s a letter from Indians VP of Public Affairs, Bob Dibiasio, sent on October 21, just two days before the fan survey was published, in response to a letter from lifelong Indians fan Stephen Rose (Rose’s first letter can be viewed here at Cleveland.com, and his reply is posted just after Dibiasio’s below):

“We believe once the historical significance as to how and why the Cleveland baseball team became the ‘Indians’ in 1915 is understood,” Dibiasio writes (again!), “we feel you will agree the name honors our connection to Louis Francis Sockalexis, the first Native American to play professional baseball.”

“The Chief Wahoo logo, meanwhile,” Dibiasio adds, “has enjoyed many decades of fan appeal for Cleveland baseball fans and because of its longevity, our fans view it as an integral part of team history and part of their emotional connection with the team.”

So not only do the Indians really not care about your opinion on Chief Wahoo, they’re already perfectly comfortable assuming your conclusions. There’s no reason at all to think that a marketing survey will help an organization that continues to insist on pushing a thoroughly risible lie about a Native American ballplayer who was famous mostly for the sensationally brutal racism he endured while logging 367 at-bats with the Cleveland team in the 1890’s before he shortly drank himself to death. And Cleveland’s Major League Baseball logo remains firmly established, along with slavery, patriarchy, and the divine right of kings, on history’s list of things most fervently justified by appeals to tradition, longevity, and emotional connection.

Notably, the organization’s survey did not include any questions about its name, itself the direct and inextricable legacy of Christopher Columbus, a mass murderer who employed torture for sport and sold ten-year-old girls into sex slavery without compunction. Cowardly “phase-out” of Chief Wahoo or not, a Major League Baseball club called the “Cleveland Indians” will remain an inexcusable embarrassment.

Tribe Town

Tribe Town 2

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

    Major thanks to Stephen Rose for writing such excellent letters and for sharing his correspondence.

    So what does everyone think about those Brownies? The Ravens are surely a mess, but 4-1 in games not started by Weeden is something, and Bess really came through for his boy Superfan. Really didn’t like the fourth down call on that last drive but hey, it worked out! I’d say that every game left on the schedule is winnable, with five of them (Steelers, Jags, @Steelers, Bears, @Jets) being eminently so. And when the Browns signed Campbell, wasn’t I the first one to say that it marked the end of the Brandon Weeden era? Why don’t I ever get any credit for these things? Oh, and gosh, it turns out that Seneca Wallace is godawful even in a Packers offense that had racked up the second-most yards in the league before he got a hold of it. “The Packers’ net of 113 passing yards (last night against a decimated Bears D that had given up 45 points to Washington the week before and was featuring two rookie linebackers making their first NFL starts) was their lowest in a game since Week 10 of 2008, according to ESPN Stats & Information.” THANKS AGAIN FOR THE GREAT TIMES, HOMGRUM.

    • Chris Music

      It’s looking like the Cleveland.com link to Mr. Rose’s first letter isn’t working. I’m getting this error:

      Http/1.1 Service Unavailable

      Anyone else getting this?

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        Yeah, but not because the link is bad. It looks like Cleveland.com pulled the letter from its site.

        https://www.google.com/search?q=Stephen+Rose+Wahoo+Cleveland.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

        How bizarre.

        • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

          And now the link is back to working again.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        Here’s the text of Rose’s original letter to the Indians. Naturally, Cleveland.com omitted the footnote referring to this website when it posted the letter.

        Dear Mr. Dolan,

        I am from Cleveland Heights. I spent thousands of dollars on Indians tickets this year, as each of my father and I does every year. I watch or listen to almost every game. I fly across the country to see the Indians, sometimes in March. Accordingly, I was embarrassed to read the following headline after this year’s playoff game: “An Odious Scene: Indians Fans Wore Redface to Last Night’s Game.”[1] I implore you to take responsibility for encouraging such offensive and despicable behavior. It is time to change the franchise’s name and to abandon Chief Wahoo.

        I have a proposal: change the name back to the Cleveland Buckeyes, Cleveland’s Negro League team. Imagine a scenario where rather than attracting press for fostering racism and intolerance, the Cleveland Buckeyes were praised for embracing inclusion and tolerance.

        Chief Wahoo is a product of the Jim Crow era, when blacks were second class citizens and equal pay for women was a generation away. It becomes clearer every day that Chief Wahoo is on the wrong side of history. Just last week, President Obama suggested that he would change the name of the Washington Redskins if he were the owner. I urge you to look at the poster prepared by the National Congress of American Indians comparing Chief Wahoo to caricatures of New York Jews and San Francisco Chinaman. Wearing Chief Wahoo on our hats and sleeves is tantamount to wearing blackface or a Sambo patch. Just like Sambo, the words “nigger,” “chink,” “spic,” “kike,” “Raghead” and yes, the racist caricature Chief Wahoo, have no place in our society outside of a Klu Klux Klan meeting. How do you explain Chief Wahoo to children?

        I grew up going to games at Cleveland Municipal Stadium and I remember Chief Wahoo over Gate D. His presence did not bother me then, but that is hardly a reason for keeping with a racist tradition. As Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”

        Sincerely,

        Stephen F. Rose, Esq.

        [1] It is worth noting that the article was not from the local blog http://www.clevelandfrowns.com (whose persistent and compelling campaigning against Chief Wahoo I am certain you are aware) or other Cleveland press, but from a mainstream national baseball publication: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/03/stay-classy-indians-fans-who-paint-their-faces-with-racist-caricatures/

    • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

      i’ll cop to a fast swing and broad range of emotions on that fourth down call.

      • Dan

        Jesus, I sounded like Shia Lebouf that entire play, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, OMG FUGGERJICKLE YES!!!

      • bupalos

        I think by the numbers it was a pretty good call, or at least a coin flip. My problem is that from a lot of his other decisions, I don’t think he’s going by numbers, I think he’s going by odd gut-level rationales about what is “aggressive” or expresses urgency or something. Trying to stick it down on the 10 and unleashing the hounds on them is plenty alpha-aggressive. I’m not a fan of trying to send messages with what are in reality mathematical equations that you need to get right.

        • acto

          It was a good call from a stats and probability standpoint.
          I would like to see the Browns in 4 down territory any time the are past their own 45 yard line.

    • Dan

      A lot of credit needs to go to Davone Bess to come back and make critical plays throughout the game. I he is not a veteran mentor to Gordon and Little, at least they can learn a little from what happened to Bess over the last two games.

      I also like Chud’s comments re: trusting Bess to make the plays.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1kbBmlAvdI PML

      Seneca – still making sure Chips gets a big old slice of the dick pie even after leaving the mighty Homgrum.

      http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/399302-seneca-wallace-49ers-used-me-as-leverage-for-colt-mccoys-pay-cut

      Seneca and Chips – that’s a buddy detective sitcom name if I’ve ever heard one.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        Seneca and Chips, special stepbrothers of our holy Homgrum hell.

    • bupalos

      With all due respect, the drafting of Brandon Weeden is what marked the end of the Brandon Weeden era, and none hath screamed “No” louder thereupon than I.

      I do think we’re a legitimate playoff contender with JC or Hoyer and I’m fine with one or the other or both being the QB of this team for the medium term, and only using one of the mid-late #1’s on a QB to sit. JC seems like the kind of guy that is going to be better as the grizzled veteran being asked to provide competence than he was as the potential young gun being asked to provide fireworks. Hoyer may prove to be too robotic, but he definitely makes good by the book decisions.

      The Bengals game after the bye is a very tall order –but they did lose atkins, and if we won that one I think it sets up great for 9-7, taking 4 of 6 from pit+, pit-, Jax+, nyj-, chi+, ne- forcing the Bengals to get to 10-6 (which I think they still would, but there’s hope there) and still have an outside shot at going to Cinci or NE for the wildcard.

      Injuries to JC or Haden would pretty much shut this moderate fantasy down. But you have to love that this team suddenly looks like it has a very strong core, decent cap, and a ton of picks going into a (purportedly) stocked draft.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        “With all due respect, the drafting of Brandon Weeden is what marked the end of the Brandon Weeden era, and none hath screamed “No” louder thereupon than I.”

        You get all the credit in the world for this and you always have.

        “But you have to love that this team suddenly looks like it has a very strong core, decent cap, and a ton of picks going into a (purportedly) stocked draft.”

        It should be a lot of fun to see how they manage to eff this up. It will undoubtedly be a spectacular display.

        • acto

          Rumor is the Browns are going to use their 2, first rounders this year and next year’s 1st and 2nd rounders to trade up two places to take an often injured running back.

      • BIKI024

        “legitimate playoff contender” with no threat of a rushing attack whatsoever? and you guys call me Superfan?? i’ll be happy with 6 or 7 wins so we’re not too far out of the loop for drafting our franchise QB next year..

        • bupalos

          I sort of meant going forward, with the pieces we should be able to add in the off season. This year is an outside shot at best, but its a legit shot if they can get that Bengals game. There are other contenders with close to 0 ground game..the Bengals for one.
          And you don’t get to be Super Fan by just being pie-eyed. Its all those other special things you do too.

      • Steve White

        Sitting here in Chicago, I don’t think the Browns get past the Bears. Their offense is awfully good when it’s good. The Bears D is vulnerable to the run (my God, in what alternative universe do I live where I say such things!) but the Browns can’t run. Campbell will have a decent game but I see the Bears getting that one.

        They also won’t beat the Jets or the Pats. So after the Bengals I see them finishing 3-3; that puts them 7-9 or 8-8 depending on the Bengals game. I’ll take it as a measurable sign of progress, and I agree completely with using one (ONE, Banner, do you hear me!?) 1st round pick on a QB to groom for the future.

    • Steve White

      Being in Chicago now, I want to know (thank goodness) what possessed Green Bay to sign Wallace rather than either Campbell or Hoyer. Heck, they could have signed Josh McNown who clearly looked like a decent #2 QB in that game. Word around the water cooler this morning is that Jay Cutler should take all the time he needs to get healthy; the Bears are fine as they are.

      Did GB not get a clue when Wallace couldn’t beat out Weeds, Delhomme and the real McCoy for the QB job here?

      Or did they think Rodgers was indestructible?

      I can’t figure it out though I’m quite pleased.

  • Dan

    Danberg’s statements are particularly crazy, considering the reason why there are no more Native Americans in Ohio, i.e. forced out by wars and genocide.

    Interesting tidbit I came across when I was a grad student and just remembered today

    From http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Mingo_Indians?rec=608

    The Mingos name was given to a group of Mohawks, Cayugas, and Caughnawagas; they lived in the Southeast Ohio Territory.

    There was a group of Native Americans named the Mingos!!

    This is the start of the movement to change the name from the Cleveland Indians to the Cleveland Mingos.

  • Brian Sipe

    The Indians actually have a great opportunity to get ahead of this issue by dropping Chief Wahoo right now. If they do they look good and no one messes with the name “Indians” either. If they keep this stance up people might push not only for Wahoo to go, but for a team name change like in DC as well.

    • BIKI024

      god forbid we lose the name “Indians”

  • p_forever

    i pretty much HATE the cleveland buckeyes idea. a lot. but i like everything else abut stephen rose’s letter, and about this post, very much. this part especially:

    it’s a “different animal” in arizona because “actual native americans” live there. cripes. just really unbelievable.

  • GRRustlers

    I amend all of my previous comments thinking that the survey was simply the final step in the elimination.

    Reads the letter from Bob again…

    Christ what a liar.

    Now about this competent QB play thing going on by the lake…

  • Bryan

    Great letter from Mr. Rose. I am officially behind the Cleveland Buckeyes. Love that name and love the history behind.

  • nj0

    Here’s the text from the 1/18/1915 Plain Dealer cited by Mr. Dibiasio:

    “Many years ago there was an Indian named Sockalexis who was the star player of the Cleveland baseball club. As batter, fielder, and base runner he was a marvel. Sockalexis so far outshone his teammates that he naturally came to be regarded as the whole team. The “fans” throughout the country began to call the Clevelanders the “Indians.” It was an honourable name, and while it stuck the team made an excellent record.

    It has now been decided to revive this name. The Clevelands of 1915 will be the “Indians.” There will be no real red Indians on the roster, but the name will recall fine traditions. It is looking backward to a time when Cleveland had one of the most popular teams of the United States. It also serves to revive the memory of a single great player who who has been gathered to his fathers in the happy hunting grounds of the Abreakis.

    Even before the time of Sockalexis there was another great era of Cleveland baseball history. Patsy Tebeau, the Muggsy McGraw of his day, got together an aggregation of mediocre players, and by the sheer forcefulness of his personality made them a winning team. Never was there a baseball organization which fought so hard or so unscrupulously. There was nothing ladylike or Chesterfieldian in the the Tebeau methods. But hit his team was liked, nevertheless; for it won, and that is the main requirement in baseball. Tebeau called his team the “Spiders” and now it has been decided to revive the name and apply it to Cleveland’s American association team.

    Rechristened “Indians” and “Spiders” Cleveland’s two teams will have high traditions to live up to this summer. Every baseball enthusiast of the Sixth City will hope they may prove worthy of their namesakes.”

  • nj0

    Here’s some choice excerpts from a Plain Dealer article titled “A Greatness Which Killed” from 12/27/1913 (two days after Sockalexis’ death):

    “For two or three years Sockalexis “burned up the league” in the common parlance of baseball adulation…”

    “Flattery and homage turned the head of the aborigine: he fell into bad habits and became utterly beyond the reach of discipline. “He was only an Indian, after all,” commented the enthusiasts who had been his most eager admirers – an explanation which has repeatedly been proved inadequate by the example of stolid, manly Indian athletes who have declined to be spoiled by fame and dollars.”

    “He had carried back to his semi-aborginial life the evils he had taken from civilization…”

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      Thanks. Is there a link for this? I can’t seem to find one.

      • nj0

        No, unfortunately not. Looks like the archives for the PD are pay-to-play. I’m getting this through a database at my local university library. Looks like the CPL has the archives too so you should be able to find this stuff there. Assuming you have a library card.

        http://www.cpl.org/Research/ResearchDatabases/ResearchDatabasesbyCategory/tabid/304/cid/26/smid/1460/tmid/1430/Default.aspx

        It’s interesting reading about Sockalexis though. Expectations for him seemed sky high when first made it to Cleveland. Sure reads like he was a heck of an athlete – baseball, track, football star at Holy Cross in Mass.

        While I don’t think it legitimizes the name or Wahoo, it does seem like there was sincere excitement about him playing for Cleveland. Of course, between the praise there is plenty of racism too.

        • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

          Are you able to get a screencap of the column?

  • beeej

    Cleveland Spiders = Yes. Cleveland Buckeyes = No. As a native NEOer who can’t stand the Columbus version of the Buckeyes, I would have a very difficult time cheering for the CLE version, and I would never buy any of their merchandise.

    • Stero

      I am in favor of the Spiders as well I just think the name has to change. Cleveland Naps would be great too. I wonder how common the aversion to Buckeyes is around Cleveland. I am not an Ohio State fan per se. My thinking was that the Indians could embrace their history as the first team in the AL to integrate and also dovetail with Ohio State supporters around Ohio who don’t feel as beeej does. I didn’t pull the Buckeyes out of thin air: it was the Negro League team that played at League Park.

    • Steve

      Yeah, it would be a tough call for me as well. Would love to see them honor the local Negro League team (and actually honor them, not just pretend that calling yourself after them is an honor like the current team is doing), but I know that everyone will recognize “Buckeyes” as Ohio State first, and basically, screw them.

    • no sir

      No way on the Spiders name. Most modern sports teams already have terrible “bold and/or angry” logos that look like they were inspired by Monster Energy Drink (see: most NBA teams, most NFL teams, the Akron Rubber Duckies rebrand/redesign), so I can only imagine how terrible the design choices would be for a team named the Spiders.

      Ohio State and its fans are largely unbearable, but there’s no reason to believe a professional baseball team and the university couldn’t exist as separate entities for most people in the same way that nobody associates the Arizona Cardinals with the St. Louis Cardinals, the LSU Tigers with the Detroit Tigers, or, to a lesser extent, the Red Sox with the White Sox.

      That said, what about the Municipals? Uniwatch had an Indians rebrand/redesign contest last year and one of the finalists was for the Municipals. The name is pretty awesome/unique and lends itself to far more simple/classic design choices (at least according to that particular designer: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5316/7095324841_533592c984_o.jpg)

      • beeej

        I am with honoring the Negro league team, I just wish their name was anything other than the Buckeyes. Uniwatch also had some sweet Spiders designs so they don’t have to look like Sunday Beer League Softball Motocross jerseys either. The Cardinals, Tigers, Lions, and others are largely “generic” mascots. Yes, each team has made them unique to their brand, but there are figuratively thousands of pro, minor, high school, etc… teams with those mascots. I feel the Buckeyes are uniquely tOSU. Plus, most people outside of Ohio don’t know what a Buckeye is. Double plus, a buckeye is a big nut. Unless you have an allergy, it is not very scary.

        • no sir

          Most of those Spiders unis are either variations of the current block “C” logo and “Indians” typeface (not that that is a bad thing – they both look great) and the ones that aren’t are motocross jerseys or would look silly on an actual person.

          The Buckeyes name may be “uniquely” Ohio State at the moment, but I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with fostering a sense of unity with the Columbus market – they do house our AAA affiliate – to expand the fan base. Additionally (regrettably), *most* Ohioans are Ohio State fans so it wouldn’t be an unwise choice, so long as they didn’t change their colors to scarlet and gray and so long as a rebranding campaign created a distinction by acknowledging the Negro Leagues team.

          Finally, the following aren’t scary at all and are perfectly acceptable/mostly awesome team names: a White Sox, a Red Sox, the Rockies, an Astro, a Royal, a Brewer, a Metropolitan, a (Trolley) Dodger, a Mariner, a Padre, a National, a Brown, a Texan, a Titan, a Charger, a Steeler, a Packer, a Saint, a Duck, a Star, a Blue Jacket, an Oiler, a King, a Canadien, an Islander, a Senator (well, their incompetence sure is scary), a Flyer, the Blues, a Canuck, a Capital, and so on.

      • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

        “Municipals” would suggest that we live in a functioning democracy so I think we should forget that one.

    • Steve White

      Spiders = meh. Buckeyes = meh. I agree with the idea to honor the Negro team like the KC Royals did the Monarchs, but what fits with Buckeye that isn’t automatically Ohio State?

      Cleveland Blues. Bring back those navy blue uniforms.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

    Here’s an interesting read on the socioeconomic backgrounds of NBA players:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/opinion/sunday/in-the-nba-zip-code-matters.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp&adxnnl=1&rref=opinion&adxnnlx=1383685338-1CgM62KHGbMclxUNJgYiNw

    “The conventional wisdom is that [Lebron James'] background is typical for an N.B.A. player. A majority of Americans, Google consumer survey data show, think that the N.B.A. is composed mostly of men like Mr. James. But it isn’t.

    “After winning his second N.B.A. championship last June, Mr. James was interviewed on television. He said: ‘I’m LeBron James. From Akron, Ohio. From the inner city. I am not even supposed to be here.’ Twitter and other social networks erupted with criticism. How could such a supremely gifted person, identified from an absurdly young age as the future of basketball, claim to be an underdog? The more I look at the data, the more it becomes clear that Mr. James’s accomplishments are more exceptional than they appear to be at first.”

  • bupalos

    I’m working another angle in my letter to the Indians, one that hopefully short-circuits an attempt to resort to economic democracy (ie more people want us to keep it than want us to lose it). It has two parts. The first is the magnitude of the impact on those who like it and those who don’t. I think they misunderestimate this because they think it’s about being “offended.” I’m not “offended” by Wahoo, I’m embarrassed of my participation in a triumphalist majority culture. Every time I see it it says to me “hey buddy, you’re hanging around with that group of assholes that thinks racial caricatures of a subjugated group are A-OK, as long as there aren’t too many of that subjugated group around to effectively complain. That’s a really negative feeling, a feeling of “I don’t want to belong to this group.” And I feel it pretty much every time the logo comes prominently in my view. No one who likes wahoo could have anything like a commensurate positive feeling.

    Relatedly, whatever the responses on that survey, there is simply and literally no one who is going to stop watching or rooting for a team because it changed one of it’s logos, but there are definitely going to be some fans, especially young ones, turned off by the idea that this organization values (a relatively short and loosely attached) tradition over social justice. Every day they keep red sambo they take another step towards that being their brand.

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      I would say that this negative feeling you describe is also accurately if less specifically described by the word “offended” but this is a fine explanation for it. But the disrespect that the organization displays for history, humanity and basic intelligence is a separate thing from the forced participation you speak of, and also shouldn’t be tolerated in any kind of decent society.

  • Mad_Elf

    As Always, Outstanding. Great art, Frowns.

  • Dave Morrissette

    Leave it as Indians and keep the same Mascot and logo. no reason to change and if anyone doesn’t like it, ignore them. They do not matter

    • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

      Got it. Thanks.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns
  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/ Cleveland Frowns

    An amazing Browns related graphic is here. https://twitter.com/ClevelandFrowns/status/398160296839090177

    Note that Weeden is surely #5 on that list with a 4-15 career record which makes 3 out of the bottom 5 QBs ones that Holmgren brought to Cleveland.

  • mrdot

    Given that baseball’s core fan base skews older and whiter (a demographic already in the midst of an existential freak-out about demographic and economic changes), Are you really surprised that the Indians would try to thread the needle between both sides to not end up like the Redskins. De-emphasizing Wahoo but not officially de-emphasizing him has certain craven logic.

    Over the long-term, I’d be more concerned that the club’s out-dated racist logo is becoming another facet of a sport facing it’s own demographic problems with losing mindshare among people under 35.

  • james

    here is a link to dibiasio in the plain dealer, acknowledging that the link to sockalexis was inaccurate, he is quoted as saying it was a fan poll….which one is it bob?

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SKVJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qg0NAAAAIBAJ&pg=1908,625062&dq=louis+sockalexis&hl=en

  • http://www.redright88.com/ Tom_RedRight88

    Knew about the history of the Cleveland Buckeyes but had never really thought about it as a potential name if the Indians were ever to move away from their current logo set. Really like the idea plus all the back story that goes along with it.

    On a related note, at least they’re not the Cleveland Arabs, right? http://deadspin.com/california-high-school-under-attack-for-its-arab-masc-1460479915

    • humboldt

      Wow, that is an utterly fascinating display of modern day Orientalism. Edward Said must surely be rolling over in his grave…

  • bupalos

    Boy did things fall out nicely for the Brownies over a weekend of not playing. Not only the Bungles for the division, but Tenn. losing to Jax is pennies from heaven in the wildcard. Chargers too–even if that was expected. If the Bucs can pull one off tonight, it really starts to look like a 9-7 that included a Jets win could be our ticket.

    AND that Colts 1st-rounder gained 3-4 unexpected spots, as Richardson continues to do nothing, and Luck keeps taking the big hits that could skyrocket that pick in an instant. Could anything be better than the Colt’s pick turning out to be better than ours?

  • Kyle

    A change to the Cleveland Buckeyes would be awesome and I would feel proud to cheer for this team again.

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