Must win, can’t win: Browns make Bills feel at home in 24-14 loss

by Cleveland Frowns on September 24, 2012

“BILLS FANS TOOK OVER THE DAWG POUND! Last series, nothing but Bills jerseys in the stands!” — Buffalo safety Bryan Scott

“I don’t like it. I don’t like it whatsoever. I’ve been here a long time and I’ve never experienced that, and it’s embarrassing. It’s a shame we weren’t able to put out a better effort than we did.” — DQwell Jackson

“The next one’s the game we have to win. They’re all must-wins. Wouldn’t you agree? Who goes into a game thinking they’re going to lose? You can frame it how you want.” — Pat Shurmur

—————

Before yesterday, the Buffalo Bills hadn’t won a road game in over a year.

Welcome to Cleveland. Welcome to Shurmurball.

A franchise that set itself up to have every excuse in 2012 needs all of them today after a thoroughly deflating home loss in a game that that Pat Shurmur said the Browns had to win. Because here’s how Shurmur’s Browns come out for a “must win” home game against a team that hasn’t won on the road since 2010:

Three and out. PUNT. Give up 20-yard return.
Give up a touchdown on a four minute, nine-play, 60-yard touchdown drive. (Bills 7, Browns 0).
Three and out. PUNT. Give up 33-yard return into your own territory.
Give up a touchdown on four plays in 1:53, including a 32-yard screen pass for the score. (Bills 14, Browns 0; Ten minutes into the game).
Three and out. PUNT. (Fair catch!).
Let opponent march right back down inside your twenty before being saved by a gift fumble (that probably wasn’t) by a quarterback who wasn’t touched.
Five and out. PUNT.

By now we’re more than halfway through the second quarter and if the Browns don’t get an illegal contact call to reverse a Brandon Weeden interception on their next drive it gets worse. Of course, it’s even more frightening to think of what would have happened if the Bills hadn’t lost the NFL’s leading rusher C.J. Spiller to a shoulder injury in the first quarter, but Tashard (Third) Choice still came in to rack up 90+ yards of his own.

Anyway, ifs and buts. What we do know is that the Browns have now been outscored 21-6 in the first quarter this season, right in line with last year’s 82-26 first quarter deficit for a total of 103-32 in the Shurmur Era. And now is when we have a moment of silence to remember how people used to complain about Eric Mangini’s “failure” to make second-half adjustments when the Browns, with the likes of Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme playing quarterback, would get out to early leads against more talented opponents.

Holy shit.

The Bills did let the Browns back into the game for a moment thanks in large part to timely penalties and the strange Ryan Fitzpatrick fumble deep in Cleveland territory. But they slammed the door right back in the fourth quarter with a methodical 5-minute, 10-play, 70-yard touchdown drive that the Browns could only answer with a five-and-out and two Weeden interceptions on three drives in which they moved the ball a total of 23 yards.

It was nothing fancy on Buffalo’s part. They just stacked the box against Richardson, dared the Browns to throw, ignored the play action in the secondary, and were more than ready when Weeden complied. The rookie quarterback did make a couple of nice throws yesterday to go along with a number of bad ones, but he’s now averaging two interceptions per game. And fourteen points is something that Colt McCoy could do, even as a rookie, and even without a threat like Richardson in the backfield. In any event, the more the Browns are forced to play on their heels like yesterday, the harder it is for anyone to get a read on Weeden’s ceiling or his ability to consistently approach it. And what’s especially scary is the thought that yesterday’s offensive ineptitude was in significant part a result of there being a little tape out on the new Weeden/Richardson Shurmurball attack.

So now we’re off to Baltimore and then New York, not just with a 9-game losing streak, but also without any semblance of an identity, and without any hope at all that Shurmur and his staff can scheme up a win against teams with the kind of Super Bowl caliber talent the Ravens and Giants have. In nineteen games now with the only four wins coming against the weakest opponents imaginable, they’ve done nothing close. That Eagles offense that made Dick Jauron’s defense look so good in Week 1 scored six points in Arizona yesterday. The same Bengals that helped spark yesterday’s doomed high hopes for the Browns offense are now allowing an average of 34 points per game after giving up 31 to the Redskins.

It’s not October yet, and all Browns fans are left to do is mark their calendars for October 14, when Shurmur’s troops trudge back home with an 0-5 record for another chance against Cincinnati. It could be just as ugly then (Cincy’s not that much farther away than Buffalo), but the two in between are going to be really hard to watch. It’s time to fire up the 2013 draft boards. It’s Year 3 of the Holmgren Era, and the must wins are can’t wins against the Buffalo Bills.

ClevelandFrowns

Another candidate for a headline quote was this:

“On a day when Browns stars of the past such as Jim Brown and Eric Metcalf were in the house for alumni weekend …, stars of the future such as Brandon Weeden and Trent Richardson failed to keep their fans in the seats and prevent this fledging [sic.] team from tumbling to 0-3.” — Mary Kay Cabot, Plain Dealer

Stars of the future!

Fledging!

Fledging: What Browns fan wanted to do to his face with a machete after the first quarter yesterday.

Also, after a typically slow (2-4) Week 1, Frowner, while certainly no ClevTA, is 6-3 with the NFL picks over the last two weeks. Will gladly risk the winning record on Seattle +3.5 over Green Bay tonight and enjoy watching a well-coached team that’s built to win with a rookie quarterback who wasn’t reached for and who won his job fair and square in a legit competition for it. Too refreshing.
- Beeej
  
  Listening to the radio yesterday they were trying to figure out what recent players might make it to Browns legends. They didn’t come up with anyone. I had Phil Dawson and Peyton Hillis that one year (ok ok 3/4s of a year).
  - Hopwin
    
    Cribbs holds two records and is already in Canton for one of them. Pontbriand made like 42 consecutively Pro Bowl appearances before being sacraficed on the altar of Shurmur’s credibility. That’s about it…
    - Beeej
      
      So Cribbs, Pontbriand, Dawson, and 3/4 of a Hillis season. 3 special teamers and a guy who should be on the “special” team. Awesome.
      - http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M
        
        Maybe like 7 Derek Anderson games in ’07, since we’re counting partial seasons now.
Beeej

I feel there needs to be more flames in the dumpster fire. Can you make it bigger?
BIKI024

few big drops by the receivers could’ve changed the game.. phantom holding call on Joe Thomas and a big one on Alex Mack.. but yeah the start was terrible, not to mention 3rd downs, brutal. oh well, shoulda coulda woulda, it is what it is.
- ClevelandFrowns
  
  Yeah, it’s amazing how the Browns keep getting screwed by the refs, including yesterday where they were only flagged 6 times to the Bills’ 10, and Week 1 where they were flagged 3 times to the Eagles’ 12. I don’t know why the refs keep screwing them like this, but I do know that the Browns are so much more talented than both of these teams, so the refs must have it in for them for some reason. Oh well, it is what it is.
  - BIKI024
    
    who said the Browns got “screwed”? i was just pointing out the 2 penalties that were costly to us. i don’t complain and whine about losses like some people around here, particularly when it comes to the refs. it is what it is.
    
    but we certainly got the short end of the stick on what was definitely a fumble by Fitzpatrick, the ball was wet and it slipped out of his hands, fumble. we had the ball and running, who knows what field position we could’ve had there, or maybe even 6.
    
    the Bills clearly are more talented than the Browns active roster, and it showed, but we still had our chances and blew them.
    - ClevelandFrowns
      
      Mmm-hmm. Do you know what’s really funny? Reading your first comment to this post from 2010 here:
      
      http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2010/09/bernie-kosar-on-the-browns-offense-and-wheres-phil-savage-when-we-need-him/#comment-119873160
      - BIKI024
        
        ha, yeah that Robiskie kid isn’t even in the league anymore. VEIKUNE!
    - Petefranklin
      
      Sooo??? you want to double our bet? Just curious.
      - BIKI024
        
        not over till it’s over, but certainly not looking good. give me 2-1 odds and i’ll double it all day my friend.
  - actovegin1armstrong
    
    “it is what it is.”
    Frownie, I appreciate your wit and sarcasm, but this horrible, moronic, colloquialism must never be repeated.
    Please Frownie….
- vespo09
  
  you know it’s bad when even superfan biki is down about it
  - BIKI024
    
    it’s much more fun to take a L if you win money on it.. first ATS loss for the Browns in 7 games..
    - Believelander
      
      Correction, you’re the only one who has any quantity of fun when the Browns get shellacked.
actovegin1armstrong

Frownie, please use your SuperPowers so the Browns do not finish the year without a win.
I now believe that 0-16 is a possibility.
If you could pull some strings and schedule a Browns v. Zips game for week 18, the Browns would go in as at least a one point favorite and I really think that they could win if Weeds calls an audible on every play, or some backyard, “everybody go long” stuff.
clay

Congratulations Mr Haslam, you bought a billion dollars worth of burning dumpsters. Pretty fucking sweet eh?
- Believelander
  
  There’s a thing that you can pay for at a Chinese massage parlor called a Burning Dumpster, if Jimmy Haslam III just bought a billion dollars worth of those, I’m inviting him to my birthday party FO SHO.
  - actovegin1armstrong
    
    Believe, I do not believe.
    I have to call you out on this, not that I am an expert on massage parlors in China, but I have been ignored by just as many Asian women as women of any other respective persuasion.
    I Believe that you made that one up.
Leftyjsf

Maybe Weeden has the big arm and a higher “ceiling.”. That said, I am confident that he won’t win as many games as McCoy even with more talent.

Man love aside. I wasn’t the biggest Mangini fan but his teams were always prepared and disciplined. I have seen neither trait from this 2012 squad. Absolutely embarrassing sitting in my section with 90% of those around me pulling for the Bills.

Save for the Tilted Kilt, the day would have been dreadful.

0 wins with Shurmur & Weeden. Heck, Weeds thought he played great yesterday. That’s really all you need to know about Weeden’s character.
- Believelander
  
  I’m not worried about Weeden’s character – yet. While he didn’t play great (he played like a talented rookie who is still learning), he didn’t lose us the game, despite the two fourth-quarter picks. I would call his performance mediocre. Honestly, his comments about his ‘good game’ came off sounding foolish, but the comments smacked of something I’m very familiar with because of another sport I pay way too much attention to –
  
  Professional pitchers.
  
  I’m fairly sure that no MLB pitcher has ever been at fault for anything ever (exaggerating). This mentality is cultivated from the time they enter the minors. Pitchers never make mistakes – their curveballs “don’t work”, their location “can’t be found”, opposing players “hit good pitches”. This mentality is not a problem, insofar as the pitcher must still recognize that he needs to figure out what he needs to do to get that rogue location and slacker curveball to toe the line and do their damn jobs, but the pitcher must assume against every batter that they’re going to go up there and mulch the guy. Pitchers who do not think like this, who have doubt in their ability, are called lunchmeat, or, if they’re Hispanic, Faustberto Carnandez.
  
  This mentality of a professional pitcher has to change for him, but I don’t think it will under Pat Shurmur. I don’t think I’ve EVER heard Shurmur criticize himself or take ownership for the Browns losing. He would make a great pitcher. He claimed the team was ‘ready to play’ (AKA prepared by the coaches) and didn’t ‘execute’. Translation: it’s not my fault, it’s those 43 guys out there’s faults. He actually divested himself of culpability in the loss. I’m not saying that coaches have to rail on themselves, but they have to lead by example, and so when your team looks like they don’t know what the f*** they’re doing on Sunday, say that YOU are going to look at what YOU can do to make sure these guys are in a position to execute better.
  
  If Weeden, who must become a leader, has to look to Pat Shurmur and Playoff Ticket Mike for examples of how to become a leader, he’s never going to be a leader. Guys like Tom Brady get called arrogant, yet Tom Brady doesn’t mince words when he puts up a stinker, he admits to it. He takes culpability for losses that aren’t his fault. Maybe someone can mail Weeds tape of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees containing footage of everything they do as part of their team when they’re NOT throwing the football.
  
  Or we can just lock Shurmur and Holmgren in a shipping container on a freighter to Kamchatka and go get a real head coach and president.
Peter

I cant get my mind around the fact that this team has drafted high for so many years and still has such a talentless roster. Unbelievable. The holes in the starting lineup and the lack of depth is sad. Just watch kickoffs. The lack of speed is painfully obvious.
- manc
  
  Browns are still paying the price for the Savage years. The guys who should be in their primes (years 5-8), your productive vets, the core of the team etc…are not on the roster. Its not just Holmgren’s regime that’s failed but all of em.
  - Petefranklin
    
    You mean like Eric Winston? Savage would have at least signed him.
- actovegin1armstrong
  
  Peter you are correct!
  This was from a Mo Claiborne scouting report before the 2012 draft.
  
  It did not say this, but everyone should know, it is a passing league, never draft a running back in the first round!
  
  ****Elite speed****
  Cover corner; rarely allows separation
  Can run with receivers in and out of breaks
  Phenomenal ball skills
  Capacity to make clutch game-changing plays
  Excellent hands
  Fast feet
  Can quickly flip his hips to turn and run
  Very athletic
  Extremely agile
  Can play bump-and-run
  Body control
  Can turn and run with receivers on deep routes
  Intelligent about when he initiates contact
  Good tackler
  Quality height
  Has some physicality with receivers
  Not a gambler
  Can play well in zone
  Solid contributor against the run
ClevelandFrowns

So when’s the next Holmgren press conference? #playofftickets
- Petefranklin
  
  # GTFOuttahere!
- Believelander
  
  I’m sure Mike will be making an appearance on Seattle radio sometime soon. Though he finally did go on Bull and Fox once or twice because the people and media of Cleveland were eviscerating him for talking to Seattle sports radio but not Cleveland sports radio when he works for the Cleveland Browns.
  
  If I were him, I wouldn’t go within half a mile of the press room until he’s fired. Daryl Ruiter, the Fan’s beat reporter, was interviewed on one of their radio programs yesterday morning and he, normally a pretty chillaxing nice positive dude, sounded like he wanted to say on the air that Pat Shurmur can go **** a ***** with his ****************. He referred to Shurmur as being ‘extremely condescending’ towards the room in general and Mary Kay Cabot in particular (the biggest only major Cleveland media head trying to give him some credit).
  
  The disdain that Holmgren has showed the media and through them the people (don’t come to ME for playoff tickets) is mirrored in the disdain and condescension we see from Pat Shurmur, to whom Holmgren is an example, and even Greg Little. This organization is so tone deaf and bereft of credibility (didn’t we hire Mike to be Mangini’s boss to bring ‘credibility’ ‘stability’ ‘experience’ and ‘a face’ to the franchise?) it would be utterly shocking if not for the equally tone deaf, counterfeit, inept organizations we have had here since 1999.
  - http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M
    
    I’m dying to know what **************** is.
wiseoldredbeard

I am at a loss. Either the players on this team, or its coaches, have no will to win. Thank God Haslem already promised not to move this team out of town, because I have a feeling that there are going to be A LOT of empty seats the rest of the season… This is a sad day.* Honestly, I have no idea what they could even do to turn things around.

* – Shockingly familiar sentiment every Monday the last two years.
- BIKI024
  
  oh please, we are 0-3 against 3 teams that are most likely going to make the playoffs. Trent is the man, Weeden is a rookie and a work in progress and should hopefully improve as the season goes along. Things should help when we get 2 of our best defenders in Haden and Big Phil back as well.
  - manc
    
    I think its much more likely that the Eagles crater completely than make the playoffs, and if the Bills actually are a contender than I’m a Hottentot.
    
    Why does this club continually come out flat as a pancake?
  - wiseoldredbeard
    
    Biki – I take it you were not at the game. I am normally a glass-half-full kind of guy (and in fact find your upbeat commentary refreshing), but the first and fourth quarters were beyond depressing. After Shurmur elected to punt with six minutes to go on fourth down, there was about a minute of heckling Shurmur, then 90% of Browns fans left. Losing hope in game three of the season is a very sad reflection on the Holmgren era…
    - BIKI024
      
      yeah, no one likes to lose. but it is what it is, life goes on, another game on Thurs.. keep chopping wood..
      
      but for me, as long as Weeden can make some progress from now till end of season, things are looking up for the Clownies. we finally have 30+ homegrown guys that are building chemistry with each other, even through these tough losses. most likely a new coach (that hopefully is a 4-3 guy) and what looks like another Top 5 pick next year and that is ample enough time of building through draft (typically need 4+ above average drafts in a row (see GB, NE, ATL, NYG, NYJ, PIT, etc).
      
      but as far as this year, they def aren’t doing themselves any favors by the slow starts, def have to execute better than they did in 1st quarter, no doubt
      - wiseoldredbeard
        
        Sure, life goes on, rainbows, smiley faces, and full pitchers of beer… But, at some point — and I’m not sure when but I know it will happen — people get sick of spending time and money watching hot garbage that is neither inspiring nor entertaining, and find other ways to spend their money and time. We can convince ourselves to keep holding on when there is a legitate chance that there will be success in the future. But, fuck me, over five hundred only two times in 13 years? And only one playoff game?
        
        Look, even the Browns don’t publish their record since Holmgren came on board – http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/year-by-year-results.html Are you surprised they are embarassed? There is no way that I could get worse and worse every year at my job and not get fired.
      - BIKI024
        
        yeah, their record is dismal, yet people still spend time and money on them, i don’t see that changing, EVER. but feel free to spend your time and money elsewhere, just not on the Steelers. what a loss for them yesterday, great game for the Raiders.
      - wiseoldredbeard
        
        1. Assuming blind loyalty will continue is the dumbest thing that any owner can do.
        
        2. I find the suggestion that I would spend my money or time on the Steelers offensive.
      - Believelander
        
        I’m glad you bring up the Raiders beating the Steelers, Biki, because it gives me YET another opportunity to state the obvious:
        
        Jets, go f*** yourselves with napalm please.
      - actovegin1armstrong
        
        Wise’ol,
        I certainly do not wish to offend you but….
        
        “1. Assuming blind loyalty will continue is the dumbest thing”
        
        “blind loyalty”….? where people spend their money every Sunday with no viable return….?
        
        I really enjoyed your comment!
      - munasrevenge
        
        Was just skimming the comments; did anyone else see “30+” and immediately think of our ‘rookie’ QB?
  - Believelander
    
    I hear Mary Kay Cabot needs help rolling out laughable bullshit positivity down at the P ain Dealer. Break into the BIG TIME brother!
    
    Edit: Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden have proven nothing but I think both are going to be very good players if their careers aren’t derailed by … not gonna say the name of that thing that happens to lots of players in the NFL.
  - Petefranklin
    
    Yeah sure Buffalo makes the playoffs, wanna double up again maybe?
    - BIKI024
      
      care to wager on if Bills make the playoffs? Jets in trouble with Revis out, Dolphins aren’t a threat, schedule is relatively easy, I can see them winning 10 games and getting in. 4-1 they make it
      - ClevelandFrowns
        
        I don’t think the Bills are such a long shot to make the playoffs either, fwiw. Whichever of Pitt and Bal don’t win the AFC North, then who’s the other AFC wild card going to be?
      - Believelander
        
        Whichever of Bal and Cin don’t win the AFC North? I think the Stillers have finally made a terrible mistake, and it comes at the perfect time when their roster is aging and there’s a lot of new talented blood in other NFL teams leading to our division having a tough schedule (not to mention a brutal divisional schedule).
  - actovegin1armstrong
    
    “What’s that? Ah — Playoffs? Don’t talk about — playoffs?! You kidding me?! Playoffs?! I just hope we can win a game! Another game!”
    
    Biki, put down the bong for just a little while.
    There is no way that all three of those train wreck teams shall make the playoffs.
    
    If they do we can go to Believe’s favorite hang out and I will buy us all Burning Dumpsters.
  - Believelander
    
    I do agree btw that getting back that pocket-collapsing presence in Taylor and the big time corner behind him is going to do worlds for this defense, not to mention the prospect of James-Michael Johnson getting healthy. If the offense develops a rhythm and consistency (which I think will never happen under ShurmGren), this team still has a shot at winning 6 games. Outside of A.G.S., Colts, Chargers, Broncos, Raiders, Chiefs, and Steelers x2 are all winnable games at this point (unless the Stillers get it turned around, which it seems less likely than the smoldering cigarette butt in their dumpster igniting something). Win 5 of those winnable games and 1 A.G.S. and there you go.
    
    That said, my personal thought is that it’s not going to happen, and that we’ll be able to limp out of this season with 3 wins, but getting our guys back will make this look more like an NFL team with jerseys and everything.
    
    I pray that they win just enough games to move them OUT of the #1 pick to eliminate the temptation of drafting a quarterback #1 overall, unless a pre-eminent Luck/Griffin/Newton prospect emerges this year, which doesn’t appear to be shaping up. Matt Barkley, when he probably goes #1 overall next April assuming no total collapse, will remind us of Sam Bradford – “Well, he was the best QB available”. If you’re not drafting a transcendent talent #1 you shouldn’t do it. If we want a Sam Bradford level prospect, we already have one named Brandon Weeden.
    - BIKI024
      
      Barkeley’s numbers the last 2 games against above average defenses are pedestrian, I highly doubt he goes as high as was projected to go prior to the season starting.
      
      with all the rookies starting this year and with as many good young QBs there are in the league, there are only a couple teams with pressing QB needs who would invest a 1st round pick on a QB. If Weeden can average an 80 or higher rating the rest of the way it doesn’t seem like the Browns will scrap the Weeden Project. otherwise the only teams with veteran QBs with no succession plan is OAK, DEN and depending on how Cassel finishes the year KC.
      
      wherever we pick, i hope it’s a stud DE or LB with that 1st pick.
      - NeedsFoodBadly
        
        Not a WR?
http://twitter.com/clevezirm Jordan Zirm

I think what we are all missing here is, in the picture Frowns used for this post, in the upper left corner, there appears to be one Bills fan smooching another Bills fan on the cheek to celebrate Johnson’s TD. That one Bills fan was so god damn happy that the Bills finally won a road game that she/he (I can’t tell) grabbed the Bills fan next to them and kissed him on the cheek. If the Browns season isn’t summed up by two Bills fans getting romantic inside of our stadium after a touchdown, well then I’ll just keep sitting here crying.
- architectartvandelay
  
  I also like the two dejected Browns fan. Is that a Rod Windsor jersey he is wearing? Never mind, it is a Joe Haden jersey. Ironically Haden is contributing as much as Rod Windsor.
TWMBrad

Hold down the fort, toe the line, stay afloat, whatevs. MKC says continuity = playoffs next year.

“If there’s at least some continuity and the roster isn’t overhauled, this team is poised to make a playoff run next season. ” (Yesterday’s Hey Mary Kay!.
- Beeej
  
  Is this the same Mary Kay that had the browns winning 8 games? She has been dead on with her predictions so far.
  - Believelander
    
    I’m never going to complain at MKC for being an endless insufferable bundle of misplaced sunshine, because the alternative is Tony Grossi. F*** that.
    
    And don’t you even think about saying we need something in between the two extremes. No such sanity exists in Sports Cleveland.
    - Beeej
      
      We already have Biki though. And he at least uses his intellect when he tells us reasons to feel good about the Browns.
    - TWMBrad
      
      Never thought of MKC and Grossi as opposite ends of a spectrum. Grossi was condesending and entitled (and continues to be at WKNR). MKC is uninformed and misleading. Both are ineffectual and inflamatory, and neither should have the title of head beat writer for the most important team in this city (and the HOF vote that goes with it). Alternatives at PD, in order of preference, are Pluto, Tom Reed and Branson Wright. Outside PD are Patrick McManamon and Marla Ridenour…and Frowns and Biki, of course.
- actovegin1armstrong
  
  TWMBrad,
  You may be both a pessimist and missing the point.
  The Browns WILL make a run for the playoffs next year.
  However, it shall most assuredly be like this year’s “run for the playoffs”, over after an 0 and 3 start.
BigDigg

Hate to sound like perpetually pissy old-fart Livingston, but we’re in a bad bad place as a fanbase. No thoughts on how to fix it. We’re disgruntled yet increasingly apathetic at the same time. The path of apathy leads to where Bengal fans now reside. The path of outrage will lead to yet another complete tear-down. We’re a fanbase desperate for a winner that is stuck in a never ending 3-year rebuild.

With about 6min left, down 10pts and facing an impossible 4th and 9 Shurmer elected to punt. Not a bad call given the field position. But it was a virtual white flag for the fans, and the stadium quickly emptied out. With 6min to go there wasn’t even the faintest scent of hope that this team could even contemplate making the game interesting enough to stay.

Kudos to Cribbs for being the anti-Perez and accepting that even the most blindingly faithful die-hard fans needs to be thrown a bone every few years.
- maxfnmloans
  
  happy Cribbs throws the fans a bone once in a while, but he needs to realize he is not the player he used to be, and continually returning kickoffs from the end line to the 10 yard line is not helpful. I admire his (apparent) belief that he can take it to the house from anywhere on the field, but I don’t think Gayle Sayers wold fare much better staring at the back of the end zone every time
  - BigDigg
    
    Agree, though I think this might be a bit out of desperation to make something (anything) happen. Tough to fault a guy who still gave out a 28yd return average overall. And despite the lack of TD’s, we’re still one of the best in the league:
    
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn
    
    It’s clear that most top-flight return men do their best work earlier in their careers. Not just Cribbs, but Eric Metcalf, Pacman Jones, etc. Even Devin Hester hasn’t done much of recent. Also worth considering that this current coaching staff might not have a clue.
    - maxfnmloans
      
      I hear you and like you say, it’s tough to say anything to a guy who is obviously giving everything he’s got every time he is on the field. I just hope someone could mention it to him privately, in the most respectful manner possible, because it will eventually do more harm than good. Don’t get me wrong, if we had 53 guys with Josh Cribbs’ heart, we really would have to call Homegrum for playoff tix
WooMike

It’s really uninspiring to watch Shurmur’s reactions on the sideline (e.g. putting your face in your hands or shaking your head in disbelief). I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a coach react with such obvious outward disappointment when things go wrong. Coaches’ gears should be turning when something doesn’t go their way, not reacting like a spoiled child who doesn’t get their way. I would want my coach to get mad or or have steely resolve to fix the problem; not whine like a baby about it. Shurmur’s obviously way out of his element as a head coach and that’s on H and H.
nagelbush

“For the first pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Matt Barkley, quarterback, University of Southern California ….”

The whole team stunk yesterday. But Weeden has no “celing.” He is the crawl space of quarterbacks.
- BIKI024
  
  Barkley is playing his way out of the Top 10.. but yeah, let’s dump Weeden after 3 NFL games.. he wasn’t helped yesterday by the OL and yet again another bad day of drops.
  - maxfnmloans
    
    other than Tom Brady and a rookie Matt Light, I don’t see much of a difference between the 2000 and 2001 Patriots rosters. I’m not trying to compare anything on the Browns to anything on the Patriots, so please do not misunderstand me here
    
    My point is that eventually, you have to stop making excuses and start making plays. Saying the ineptitude is acceptable or written off because this or that wasn’t exactly as it should be is what losers do when they don’t want to look in the mirror.
    
    I’d be willing to bet nothing is ever perfect for any team. The year the Packers won it, they finished the regular season with 16 guys on IR.
    
    Did it take Bellichik 4 years? How about John Fox in Denver? Josh McCown’s drafts would have set a team with our mentality back 5 years, and instead, John Fox takes a kid who can’t complete a deep out to the second round of the playoffs, while missing several key defenders (Miller, Dumerville)
    
    They are professionals. They don’t need people who pay their salaries making excuses for them when their performance is not good enough.
    
    Ill see you Sunday (not really, but you know what I mean)
    - BIKI024
      
      what has John Fox done in Denver? he’s 9-11 in 20 games so far there.
      
      in addition to having 30+ homegrown players, you obviously need a franchise QB, which was largely why NE won early on in BB’s regime in NE. as up and down Weeden has been thus far, he’s a rookie with only 3 games under his belt. it seems to me that with more time and experience he has what it takes to be the man on Sundays. of course he needs some help from the OL and receivers, but that should improve with more time with each other as well.
      
      but yes, the players gotta make the plays. once again 4-5 drops yesterday and some bonehead penalties. come on GLittle!
      - nj0
        
        I believe he’s 10-11 with a playoff win (9-9, 1-2). Even before correcting for Tebow, the number is still better than 4-15.
        
        I’d take the Denver roster over ours too.
      - BIKI024
        
        there are certainly some studs on Denver’s roster, particularly Von Miller, but nothing too special otherwise. would be great if we could get a stud LB like him next year. That LB from Georgia looks scary, Jones.. or that Mingo kid from LSU, Barkevious, what a name!
      - nj0
        
        Guess my point is don’t sell the Broncos short for losing to Atlanta and the Texans. I think Houston is the best team in the NFL right now. Atlanta is pretty near the top too.
      - http://www.redright88.com/ Tom_RedRight88
        
        Denver has also given up 40 first-quarter points in three games this season. That’s veteran coaching from Fox for you right there.
        
        If you want to hang your hat on having Tebow perform miracles each week go right ahead.
      - maxfnmloans
        
        @Tom_RedRight88- my point was that good coaches can find ways to have some level of success even when things are not perfect. Bad coaches need everything perfect for them to succeed
      - maxfnmloans
        
        Sadly, John Fox has won 1 more playoff game in Denver than anyone has in Cleveland since 1995.
    - Believelander
      
      This talk of people dumping Brandon Weeden is complete absurdity. Acting like he’s anything of a known quantity at this point. Steve Young played two seasons after he was drafted for the crapalicious Tampa Bay Bucs. He won like 2 games and he stunk to high heaven.
      
      Brandon Weeden doesn’t have the luxury of time or circumstance to sit behind Joe Montana for 4 seasons. It’s fine. But even INSINUATING that Weeden can be a known quantity because Tom Brady (top 5 quarterback in the history of forever) came in as a rook and lit the world on fire? There’s no pejorative sufficiently strong to describe that.
      
      By the way, in his first 3 seasons for New England, Brady’s QB rating was within 1 point of 86 each year, which is good, high-caliber starter, but about 15-20 points less than the QB ratings you have seen Tom Brady putting up annually since. First 3 years, good but not great. Led teams to Super Bowl victories but Super Bowl victories clinched by kicker. Next 10 years, laser rockets. Big difference.
      
      Edit: Oh, uh, that said, Shurmur is NOT good enough to be an NFL head coach. He’s really bad. He has his own smaller dumpster burning just for himself. While I agree completely with Biki that even insinuating that we can write off Weeden is foolishness, I’m going to assume his longer response defends Shurmur and just state for the record that defending Shurmur is as morally bankrupt as pushing a well-behaved, potty-trained puppy down a flight of steps.
      - maxfnmloans
        
        It seems you missed the part of my post where I said I was not comparing Brady to Weeden.
        
        I’ll try it a different way. Good players make chicken salad out of chicken poop. Others simply make a mess.
        
        I was responding to a post where more excuses were being offered up for Weeden and I was trying to make the point that things are rarely perfect for anyone in he NFL, and those who succeed are the ones who don’t need everything around them to be perfect in order to win. Can Weeden be that guy? He was not yesterday.
        
        That being said, who wants to write off Weeden? It has only been three games. The season is lost anyhow (it was lost the day they didn’t fire Shurmur). He’s got to play (so long as he’s healthy). We absolutely can not go into the off season wondering if he is the guy or not. We need to know definitively one way or the other whether we thing we can build a franchise with him.
        
        Sink or swim with Weeds. Let’s hope he’s buoyant.
      - clay
        
        Liked for Shurmer’s personal burning dumpster.
- clay
  
  We definitely know how low his basement is…
- Beeej
  
  “Matt Barkley Elects to play in the CFL for 1 year rather than play for the Browns.”
  - Alexb
    
    ^^This
    
    nobody’s coming here till we get this shit straightened out.
nj0

Shurmur has to finish the year 6-7 to match the two year win total of Mangini, a guy who got fired for not winning enough.

Like I said last week, my conscious mind keeps trying to remain positive and focus on the good things – throws Weeden completed, passes we did not drop, nice tackling by Greg Little – but then I remind myself that we posted all of 14 points. I see that we rushed for 33 yards. I see that we posed 240 yards on a team that gave up 384 and 422 the first two weeks.

We are also in year THREE of the Holmgren Convulsion. At what point does patience because foolery? Yes, we are a younger team, but I don’t know if we are a better team. I don’t know anything any more other than how bad we are and how unprepared we look from week to week.

I’ll say this, thank god Haslam bought this team. Moving into a another year of the Lerner status quo would be back breaking.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White

Here’s a serious question after yesterday:

Would it hurt to consider Colt McCoy the way baseball considers a relief pitcher?

Weeden clearly is the future, at least until he demonstrates that he isn’t. Okay, I get that, you spend a 1st round pick, you put the guy out there and let him learn the game.

But you also have to play to win, or else you won’t get the free agents, your veterans will lay down on you, and your fan base will disappear.

So was there a point yesterday when you could say, put McCoy in there for a series or two and see what happens? If he plays well great and if the team wins better, but the next day you reaffirm that Weeden is the starter for the next game and McCoy the reliever. If McCoy doesn’t play well and the game is out of reach you put Weeden back in for some more education.

Baseball understands relievers. Heck, you have 7th inning and 8th inning relievers, closers, long, short, etc. And in football you can substitute as you wish, so you can always put Weeden back in.

Teams rotate defensive linemen, running backs, nickel backs, and so on. Why not rotate the quarterbacks, particularly a young one who is just learning?
- nj0
  
  I made the same point after week one. I get it – he’s the future. But you play to win today, right? QB controversy be damned – put your team in the best place to win the game!
  
  Which goes to a bigger point with this regime – a complete lack of urgency. We’ll be good in seven years, so take it easy. Best not to complain since you’ll want those playoff tickets in 2017.
  
  I had my issues with Mangini, but I always felt he tried by hook-or-crook to win every game. If it meant flip flopping between BQ/DA, fine. If meant running ridiculous, desperate fake punts, great. He never cared about the monday morning quarterbacking or the angry fans. He just gave the team the best chance to win.
- actovegin1armstrong
  
  Steve,
  That makes terrific sense to me, but “the football experts” say “if you have two QB’s you have none.”
  Meaning that the team must rally around one QB and the coaches must game plan for one QB. (Wildcat notwithstanding.)
  I would like to see the Browns play Weeden, Clot McChips and Josh Cribbs at QB.
  - NeedsFoodBadly
    
    I like it. The triplecat offense is going to be the thing that saves this team. Get on it, Pat!
Jesse Rothacher

On the bright side, Akron’s own Rubber City Roller girls finished their season strong this past Saturday. It’s the small things in life, right?
- ClevelandFrowns
  
  It has to be.
rodofdisaster

An excellent #Browns post-mortem.

At this point, Weeden has had two poor performances and one good one. I would think you’d have a short leash for a rookie to show whether or not he can handle the NFL yet but I don’t believe that they will take Weeden out. At this point, I think changing QBs would both potentially divide the locker room and be an admission that Shurmur and his staff were wrong about his current ability. You would think that, in the interest of self-preservation, they’d be changing things on the go so as to try and actually win but Shurmur may just be THAT committed. After all, if Colt McCoy comes in…he may not be the scapegoat everyone in Berea wants him to be.

The best point made so far was made by njo where he says that Weeden has yet to make a throw that McCoy could not make. The defenses are stacking the line and Weeden can’t make them pay. Then again, I think that Shurmur isn’t helping him at all. If they’re stacking the line then why not flex the TE? Why not spread them out? I thought the WCO was classically a short passing offense based on three step drops. That could KILL an eight man front.

0-5 seems a certainty at this point and I wonder if after the NY Giants game, Shurmur may be the first to go. Why keep him and his 21% winning percentage when you know you have two former head coaches on his coaching staff (Jauron and Childress)? If Shurmur carried that percentage over 50 games (minimum qualifying), he would be the second worst winning percentage ever ahead of only Bert Bell who coached the Philadelphia Eagles from 1936-41 to a 0.179 win percentage. He’d be looking up at all of the Shulas, including David at 0.26.

Ultimately, this team has no offensive identity. They THINK they want to be a running team but when they can’t make that happen, they can’t morph into any other kind of NFL offense despite having the offensive genius calling the plays.
- BIKI024
  
  6 drops, with at least 4 of them looking like they could’ve turned into big gains certainly didn’t help him. He missed a couple great looks as well, but overall he had quite a few throws he connected on that came out with more velocity than Colt can dream of. Just like with every rookie, there is going to be some bonehead stuff that happens with rookies (even veterans like Brees and Peyton as evidenced thus far this season). But hopefully with more experience he will continue to improve. Let’s just hope the receivers can help the kid out by catching the damn ball.
  - rodofdisaster
    
    Derek Anderson had velocity. Just saying until he consistently threatens to COMPLETE deep passes…he won’t get respect from teams. The throw to Cameron down the right side was so flat you’d need a spatula to catch it. He’s forcing the ball. He’s just not playing all that well.
    
    On the last interception, that was the same play that Little scored the TD on against the Bengals. It was a single deep safety and both outside receivers (Benjamin and ?Little) were headed to deep posts. That safety was in “No Man’s Land”. One of those two had to be open deep. He instead chose a check down that he threw to the defense.
    
    I am not calling Weeden a bust nor that he should be benched but he’s got to play better than that.
    - BIKI024
      
      i thought we were comparing him to Colt? he clearly made and completed some throws yesterday that I’ve never seen Colt make. of course he needs to play better, but he also needs the receivers to not drop the ball as well. who knows what happens if we take advantage of when we got the ball down 3. that obviously was a crucial series where we had great field position that we didn’t take advantage of. Ravens have allowed a lot of passing yards thus far this season, let’s see if we can have the same type of success as the others.
      - rodofdisaster
        
        Colt drives the ball well between the numbers. It’s the outside throws that are the problem. All those throws to Cameron were throws Colt makes too. The only one I will backtrack and definitely grant is the throw to Benjamin for the TD. Not to say Colt won’t make that throw but he won’t make it as well as Brandon did.
        
        Can we please stop with the drops? It didn’t help Colt last year so I’d rather not use that excuse.
      - BIKI024
        
        it’s not an excuse, the facts are the facts. the game’s momentum changed several times due to key drops. yes, it obviously hurt Colt as well, but the drops were brutal yesterday.
      - nj0
        
        Again – if the drops are such a huge deal (and I agree that they are) why aren’t we criticizing Heckert for drafting players who can’t catch?
      - BIKI024
        
        @njo – it’s not like they can’t catch, they have proven that they can, including Little, obviously the drops overshadow the positives he brings to the table, but hopefully Little (and the others) can reduce the mental lapses. a couple of them they obviously started running upfield before they caught the ball. hopefully it’s not as common of an occurrence as it was last year. But sure, 3 big drops for Little the past couple weeks, Shurmur reamed him out a bit in his presser today, let’s see how he responds.
      - Believelander
        
        According to Shurmur, he’s already reamed Little out for his drops and his antics, and Little continues with drops and antics.
        
        Greg Little’s problem isn’t drops, but the drops are indicative of his real problem. He’s dancing after a first down on a team that’s 0-2 and careening down the path to 0-3. He’s tweeting about how he doesn’t care about what fans think of him. Dude’s a good talented young wide receiver, but he thinks he’s somebody and he’s not. Sam Rutigliano on Kiley and Booms yesterday told them exactly what he thinks of Greg Little’s chicanery and I can’t agree more. He basically said the kid needs to stop clowning, get his head in the game, and act like he’s a professional who gets paid to run crisp, on-time routes and catch catchable passes thrown to him, and that if he PLAYS the way his talents dictate, he’ll garner more attention and celebrity than he ever will acting a fool.
        
        Which is obvious, but it’s frustrating, because he’s a big, powerful, athletic receiver who gets open, but he’s a bonehead. But a lot of young players are boneheads coming in, in one way or another. Mohammed Massaquoi is finally starting to look the part in his 4th NFL season. Little’s got some time yet.
        
        Of course, if we keep Shurmur we’re all doomed.
    - actovegin1armstrong
      
      “It was a single deep safety and both outside receivers (Benjamin and ?Little) were headed to deep posts. That safety was in “No Man’s Land”. One of those two had to be open deep.”
      
      I was mulling over that choice as well.
      
      Rod’o, if Benjamin had flattened his route slightly, farther away from the hung safety a half second earlier when Weeden looked his way, do you think Weeden would have made the throw and winged it long?
      Or do you think that his “happy feet” had taken over and he was looking to check down too early?
      Just wondering….
  - nj0
    
    To be honest, on the grand scale of NFL rookie seasons Weeden is probably in the fat middle of the bell curve as of now. Bad, but not terrible.
    
    I just hate the obvious bull-shatting we experienced over him…. an open QB competition was BS, his NFL readiness, his lack of reps in the preseason, etc. If they came out and said – look, he’s a rookie. He’s going to struggle. We’re sticking with him – I would be less frustrated.
    
    Of course, the powers that be won’t say that because they want to act like this isn’t a rebuilding year when everyone knows it really is. And that’s what bothers me the most – the blatant manipulations and lies.
    
    On top of that: the complete lack of direction for this team. Many mistake a younger roster as improvement, but that’s not the case if your team lacks an on-field philosophy that is consistent with what the front office is doing.
    
    I mean, you keep mentioning the dropped passes and bad WR play. Why on earth does an offense that relies on a whole bunch of short, percise routes draft one guy who can’t catch (Little) and another who is sloppy as hell with his routes (Gordon)?
    
    Vent over….
    - BIKI024
      
      “blatant manipulation and lies” what are you talking about??? you rarely hear NFL coaches saying anything other than expecting to win. no one promised playoffs or anything, but of course they expect the players to play hard and execute consistently to give them the best chance to win. unfortunately the other teams makes a few more plays than we do in each game and we’re 0-3. but none of them were blowouts and at least we are in the games. even though we got ourselves in a hole, we held on and cut it to 3 and then blew a golden opportunity to take the lead with some momentum. it’s frustrating, but I don’t agree that there is a “lack of direction” for the team.
      - nj0
        
        No, they did promise a “a pretty good jump” this season. I’m waiting for it.
        
        As for lies/manipulations- the big one for me was when Big Mike said Mangini wouldn’t be fired based on wins and loses only to cite not winning enough when he fired him. I’d call that a lie or at least manipulative, no? Or how about the handling of McCoy’s concussion? Or the debacle of the RG3 offer?
        
        I know, I know… Let it go. Who could expect coaches/front office people to be honest with the fan base? In my opinion, if those weren’t manipulations, they were clear signs of organizational incompetence.
        
        All I do know is… 0-3. Sure, we haven’t been blown out yet though which is the same thing we could say in ’10 too. I keep hearing how we have more talent and Heckert is getting us good players and things are turning around… yet the results are still garbage. We’re in year three of the Holmgren dynasty and… bleh… it’s not worth it.
        
        You have faith. I do not. Leave it at that.
      - BIKI024
        
        what lies and manipulation in the handling of McCoy’s concussion? they did nothing wrong, as proven by the NFL the doctors were all busy and missed it.
        
        yes, Big Mike fired Mangini for much more than wins and losses, even though Mangini lost 22 of 32 games in 2 years, it’s obvious they felt they made a mistake in trying to build a team outside of how they have done it for their entire careers (4-3D, WCO)
        
        lies and manipulation, lol. it’s freaking sports!?!?!
      - nj0
        
        So it’s okay to be lied to about sports?
        
        Look, I know it’s just a game. If not for down time at work, I’m sure I wouldn’t be carrying on like this, but I don’t like being misled.
        
        Sorry. I spend time and money on the Browns. As a customer is it too much to ask to be treated with some basic respect?
      - BIKI024
        
        i do not agree that we’ve been lied to or manipulated, particularly in the examples you gave, just don’t view those situations the same as you. leave it at that.
      - nj0
        
        I concur. Chalk it up as agree to disagree.
        
        I’m sure the next 13 games will give us ample evidence to see if things are as bright as you suggest or as dysfunctional as I believe them to be.
      - BIKI024
        
        as long as Weeden can prove he can be the man, i think we’ve seen enough from Trent to feel good about RB for a few years and the other assets that have been brought to the team under Holmgren. if you have a good QB, it makes it a whole lot easier to cover up some holes in the roster. but we’re almost done filling all the holes, another Top 5 pick might be what the doctor ordered for Jimmy Haslam and whoever he decides to give the keys to the franchise to. If it’s Joe Banner, we know he’s a 4-3/WCO guy, so the roster building will not be all for naught.
      - nj0
        
        Again – agree to disagree.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White
        
        According to Frownie, the blowouts begin Thursday.
        
        Yes, the first three were “closer” (they weren’t 30 down). But there wasn’t a single one where you could sit there in the 4th quarter and say, okay guys, just put a drive together and you can win this — because you KNEW they couldn’t put a drive together.
      - BIKI024
        
        did we watch the same games? in all three games we had a chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter, in fact in the Philly game we had the lead in the 4th quarter for nearly 13 minutes. while we came up short each time, it certainly is an improvement from many of the years past where it didn’t even look like we belonged on the same field. hopefully as the young guys develop they can start making a few more plays when it counts, in the 4th quarter, and win some of these, or heck maybe executing more consistently in the 1st quarter so we can see how it feels like to have a lead early on..
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White
        
        We watched the same games. Having a ‘chance’ to take a lead in the 4th quarter is not the same as being ABLE to take the lead. I have a chance to date Morgan Fairchild, after all, but in reality it ain’t happening.
      - BIKI024
        
        Uh, in the last 10 years i think u will be hard pressed to find many games where we had the ball either winning or only down 3 in the 4th quarter. Against Philly we had 6 point lead for 13 mins of 4th quarter. Morgan Fairchild wouldn’t even let u look at her let alone being able to do warmups and stretches with her pregame, let alone down 3 or less in the 4th quarter with the ball. If we could’ve executed a bit more effectively we may have won at least won, and maybe even all 3, u keep urself that close in the 4th quarter and anything can happen. Unlike the 1st half of last year and a majority of 2009 where the games were over by halftime
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-White/100000446546049 Steve White
    
    Of course he’ll be boneheaded sometimes, he’s a rookie. I wouldn’t bench him, but I might relieve him here and there. Make sure the whole team knows the difference, too — McCoy is the designated reliever.
    
    And I’d make sure each and every receiver knows the old Jerry Glanville definition of the NFL — ‘not for long’ — if they keep dropping passes that they should be catching.
Alexb

Does anyone else think that the lockerroom just doesn’t want to go to war for Shurm? In pgh, even when they were losing……Cowher made those guys ball, no exceptions. That’s what builds team integrity. Some of this might be our fault as well…..we’re so desperate for wins that management is forced to tear everything down and rebuild every two to three years. We need to find a coach that players are willing to run through a wall for and then we need to give him a huge grace period so he can build the team the way he wants it….which itself might take a couple years before the team can even begin the maturation process of playing together.
- BIKI024
  
  you don’t think the players are playing hard?? as far as the offense, guys like Joe Thomas, Mack and TRich would not put up with guys not going at 110%, same goes for the defense. do you watch the post-game or weekly pressers of the players? they sure sound like they are willing to run through a wall for the team. we have been in every game this year against 3 pretty good teams where there was some talent inequity and they took advantage of our weaknesses with Taylor and Haden out. we’re not deep enough yet to sustain those type of losses without catching some breaks. but as luck would have it, the opposing teams made a few more plays than we did.
  - Alexb
    
    i’m not sure yet, i’m wondering if some of the guys are kind of shutting it down. I’m worried after the next two games that it will be all of em shutting it down.
  - actovegin1armstrong
    
    Biki,
    No one plays at 110% it is not possible.
    
    Also my good man; you may have painted yourself into a corner with this one:
    ” or heck maybe executing more consistently in the 1st quarter”
    Why do the Browns have a difficult time in the first quarter? Is it because they did not have the entire off season to prepare? No, wait…. that was your excuse last year.
    Even in the midst of one of your own Pollyanna soliloquies you admitted that Shurmur sucks.
    - BIKI024
      
      i’m sure the coach and players have ZERO intention of inefficient 1st quarters, i don’t believe it’s due to lack of preparation or gameplanning by the coaches. and frankly, the sample size is still only 3 games in with rookies and 2nd year players as the key executors on offense. (Little, Benjamin, Gibson, Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz, and Pinkston) we’ve obviously seen them move the ball in non-garbage time moments, so it’s not a stretch to feel that they can do it in the 1st quarter as well, but of course the buck stops with Shurmur so let him have it if it makes you feel better, but i feel good about the young core we’re developing on offense but it clearly is a work in progress. we’ll see if their 1st quarter woes continue against an overrated Ravens defense.
      - actovegin1armstrong
        
        The Ravens defense is overrated.
        I also like a lot of the young players, although I certainly would have used those two 1st round picks on the important side of the ball.
        And Biki, perhaps I am as jaded as you are optimistic, but to me, Shurmur appears to be always over-matched and The Walrus just wants to get paid.
        
        All of that aside, I would love to see the Browns beat the Grackles Thursday night!
http://profile.yahoo.com/6MZJCM7WOXAJ7JXRCDP4Z6ZYHA Michael

I am not juming to any roster conclusions let the new regime decide who they want when they arrive on Jan 8th.

Please see if Jimmy H will also look into getting WKNR to fire Michael Reghi, the most pompous piece of SHITE on the radio who makes sports radio impossible Sunday evenings after games.
- nj0
  
  pet peeve: In the same vein of “Lebron is not a kid”, can we please stop calling this the “new” regime? It’s year three. No more pretending they just got here.
  - BIKI024
    
    i believe Michael is referring to Joe Banner and whichever GM and Coach he decides to go with..
    - nj0
      
      He is. Need my blood pressure pills.
      
      Emily Litella:never mind.
dukem1

It’s nice to have those pesky Bills under our belt…Bring on the Baltimores!
dukem1

My computer is too slow and herky-jerky to read every comment, so as far as I can tell, no one one has mentioned the fact that…the only chance we have on Thursday night is to put McCoy in…let him play ’til he gets concussed outta there or whatever…Weeden has shown me absolutely nothing in three games…the Eagles did everything possible to hand us a game, and we refused to take it…the Bengals game was not remotely as close as the crummy score would indicate…and the Bills just took their time taking care of business…
So now we’re gonna throw – not just a Rookie, but a guy who looks looks like a rookie at every turn, up against – The Ravens!?!?!? Then the Giants!?!?!
At least McCoy would have some familiarity with what planet he is on when he gets on the field, if not when he leaves it…
Starting Weeden vs these teams is nothing but a sure sign this entire organization has completely given up on this season…week 3 1/2…
It is possible to be competitive while rebuilding…see P*ttsb*rg…
Some commenter said he was a glass half-full type of guy…me too…but to see the past month as the start of the Weeden era in Cleveland, you’ve got to be a My Little Pony type of guy.
No thanx…this is football.
WestPalm27

Passing on essay this week. Wondering if Jimmy Haslam post-dated that $1 billion check for Oct 16th. Just sayin, he might put a stop-payment on dat shit
Bandit

Seriously, all the super fan dribble aside, Shurmer and his band of clowns are gone. Look for the current OC as interium head coach. JB and BK will have some new roles with the Browns and we will be picking in the top two in the upcoming draft. Sad that Mangini would have likely be 3-0 now.
- BIKI024
  
  i’m not advocating for Haslam/Banner to keep Shurmur, but it’s no secret that young teams make mistakes, we’re the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. but we’ve had the chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter in each game, so we’re close. unfortunately the margin of error is extremely slim in the NFL, but hopefully we can put it all together enough for a strong 4 quarter effort on Thursday.
  - Believelander
    
    “but hopefully we can put it all together enough for a strong 4 quarter effort on Thursday.”
    
    …trolol..ol…ololo…lol?
    
    We have played 19 games under Shurmur, and have witnessed precisely 0 strong 4 quarter efforts. If the 20th time is the charm my brain will liquefy on the spot. But maybe the Ravens piss these kids off (Shurmur won’t coach them up) and they bite back hard. We shall see.
    - BIKI024
      
      well, fwiw, they played strong enough to win 4 out of 19 (still abysmal), but this year they have played well enough to have a chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter of all 3 games thus far this season. besides, it’s the NFL, where games are mostly decided by a few plays here or there, it’s not like we’re light years away like we have been in years past, including for the first 12 weeks of 2009 and the last 4 of 2010.
      - Believelander
        
        You’re cherry picking to say that we were this that or the other. There were only two games in 2010 we weren’t in and it were the two games against a Super-Bowl bound Steelers team. 2009 was the start of a total rebuild. Despite our vast increase in terms of roster talent, this team is not as NFL ready, Sunday to Sunday, as the 2010 team. NOt even close. And the fact that they played ‘strong enough’ to win the 4 games we won last year? Fwiw? fwiw = NOTHING to the point of we the fans having the remotest sliver of hope that this squad is going to present a “strong 4 quarter effort”, because in NINETEEN games under our current head coach, they have played ZERO strong four-quarter efforts. That’s 0/19, 0-19, 0%. Compare any one of Shurmur’s 19 games to Mangini’s 2010 vs. the Patriots or Saints, or even the Jets game they LOST. Shurmur’s wins have been less impressive and more lackluster than many of the Mangini Browns’ losses.
        
        Look, Eric Mangini isn’t Paul Brown. But Pat Shurmur isn’t a head coach, and Mike Holmgren isn’t a credible team president. We have to call spades spades here.
      - BIKI024
        
        “this team is not as NFL ready, Sunday to Sunday” agreed, because we have 12 of 22 starters that are rookies or 2nd year players. the 2010 team, despite starting 2 rookies in Haden and Ward wasn’t in full rebuild mode and started or rotated plenty of veterans in the twilight of their careers. that being said, this year, while there are no “moral victories” and “you are what your record says you are” we have been in every game and were within 3 points (or in the lead) in the 4th quarter of each game, 2 of which without by far our best player on defense.
      - Believelander
        
        Oh ok well I’m glad to know that we almost did stuff in the one quarter in these games that we might have won if we maybe didn’t lose them. And honestly, it’s about more than your record. So many teams throughout NFL history weren’t what their records say they are. And please, don’t feed me this line of malarky about rookies. It’s just another lazy excuse you’re echoing from Holmgren’s dumb lazy PR department. The Browns at the end of the season last year under HOLMGREN picked, HOLMGREN groomed 10-year VETERAN Seneca Wallace had all-time trophy case NFL moments like the clock killing audible dive play. Stop stop stop stop stop with your endless sycophantic ramble in defense of this indefensibly bad coaching staff. His tenure started with a barrage of excuses on the heels of a line of bull about no excuses when he picked his nose into his play sheet while the Bengals threw a game-winning touchdown over his unprepared defense in the huddle. Well the litany of “give him his offseason and a full training camp and an offensive coordinator and time to implement his system and blah blah blah blah blah” has all come to pass, we’re 19 NFL weeks into his career, and we’re STILL waiting for the FIRST time that a Pat Shurmur coached team comes out crisp, efficient, and firing on all cylinders – not blowing people out, just looking COMPETITIVE. Mangini accomplished making his teams look prepared and competitive before the end of his FIRST season, with MIKE FURREY STARTING ON DEFENSE AND OR OFFENSE! WITH THE TWO HEADED SH*TSTORM OF DERBRADEK QUINANDERPSON! We are getting to the point where we can actually field NFL players at every position, and the entire thing looks like a burning dumpster getting run over by a tyrannosaurus. So please go back to looking at Mark Sanchez+Mike Holmgren porn and stop writing excuses for a leadership that has none.
      - BIKI024
        
        you mean Sanchez-Longoria porn, latin lingo baby, funky billingual!
      - wiseoldredbeard
        
        WHEN DO YOU PEOPLE SLEEP?
- Alexb
  
  no, we can’t get rid of Shurm…know why? cause it will be another reorganization and players will start bailing….the good ones. You really want Richardson to shut it down so he can get out of town? I don’t like Shurm but if they didn’t give Mangini enough time we sure as heck haven’t given Shurm enough time. This clamoring for heads after 1 or 2 seasons is precisely why players don’t want to come play here and coaches don’t want to come coach here. Honestly we should have been beating Mangini’s dick just for coming here but whatever it’s water under the bridge. This is why Cowher won’t come here either.
  - Believelander
    
    The difference between Shurmur and Mangini is that there were positive things you could attribute to Mangini.
- Bandit
  
  Hey guys I don’t say this as good/bad, yin/yang etc. Only what I have heard. Seems Banner and Chile got along well, Banner has no great respect for Heckert or Shrumer. Thus as the losing continues the only logical interium choice is to make the move. Just soemthing the brown birds are tweeting.
jpftribe

Good mainstream article:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/20352757/the-latest-browns-rebuild-its-not-working

“Bottom line? This team has as many holes as it did when Holmgren took over.

Jimmy Haslam will be approved as the new Browns owner on Oct. 16. It’s assumed that former Eagles president Joe Banner will take over that position from Holmgren. But little else is assumed. All that tortured Browns fans can hope for is that Haslam realizes that the current plan isn’t working and takes immediate steps to fix it.

Shurmur is auditioning to remain at his job. But only victories or at least visible progress can save him. Heckert has sent Haslam his resume in the form of his recent draft history. Not one of his picks has emerged as a star. And for every selection with Pro Bowl potential such as Haden and running back Trent Richardson, there is a bust such as running back Montario Hardesty and fullback Owen Marecic.”
GrandRapidsRustlers

Thursday night is basically a job interview for Shurmur.

I don’t really think he has any chance of keeping his job, no matter what he does, but a win on a national stage may put some doubt in Haslam.

The key word was may.

We are going to get curb stomped the next two weeks and if this team comes home at 0-5 and gets embarrassed by the Bengals…well let’s just say Jimmy won’t be out shaking hands with the fans that day.
- Believelander
  
  Correction: curb stomping is a felony. We’re going to get aggravated assaulted. NFL players (teams?) don’t get locked up for 1st-degree misdemeanors.
nj0

The scab refs have been a god-send for Browns fans with nothing to cheer about. Every single game is now basically Thunderdome. Bust a deal, face the wheel!

I seriously don’t want the regular refs back.
- ClevelandFrowns
  
  LOL
- BIKI024
  
  Mr. Joe (Fish) Public was feeling really good about the refs, despite a terribly sloppy game, wow. the bookies made a FORTUNE tonight!
- Believelander
  
  Yeah the problem is that if the refs aren’t consistently calling the same stuff and letting players get away with the same stuff. Wonderfully, they’re also letting all kinds of post-chuck contact go uncalled and breaking up near fist fights without throwing flags, which is gradually bringing the NFL back to its glory days in the 1970s and 80s. Seeing a cornerback and receiver visiting violence upon one another while positioning for a pass is must see TV, and the lull of a penalty flag has become electrifying entertainment because you have no fricking clue if they’re going to call the blatantly obvious penalty you just saw in the middle of your TV or some obscure penalty that sort of might have happened.
  
  Not to mention you could run a gambling ring on whether or not they’ll call the correct number for a penalty on any given call, and even up the stakes with double downs on whether or not when they call the wrong number if there will actually be a player with that wrong number.
  
  This is the first season since I was like 12 that I can actually just sit and watch any old NFL game for 3 hours. I’m a baseball guy but this stuff is riveting.
  - nj0
    
    I think you hit the nail on the head. The blown calls get the attention (deservedly so), but I think the bigger influence on the game is the complete lack of control the officials now exert over the game. As a result, things have slowly become physical to an extent you just do not see in 21st century football. Not necessarily in the helmet-to-helmet sense, but more (as you say) players “visiting violence upon one another”. Based on what the WRs/CBs get away with, I don’t want to think how dirty line play has become.
    
    Last point: People complaining about the Tate interference non-call clearly have not been paying attention this season. That was ticky-tack compared to, oh, every single play during the Pats/Ravens game.
actovegin1armstrong

RG-what??
Is he the guy from Star Warts?
Russell Wilson for RotY!
Mr Griffin may be better than I thought, he may be the 3rd best QB from the 2012 draft, not the 5th best.
(3rd best, that must be what the 3 means.)
- Believelander
  
  …………….trolololol..ol..ololol..olo?
  
  Russell Wilson has been an exciting surprise. However, he is not as good as Robert Griffin III. And if we want to actually try to make judgments on who is better based on the tiny sample size we have, here’s some numbers:
  
  Wilson (ROTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!): 43/75, 57.3% comp, 434 yards, 144.7 yards/game, 5.8 yards/attempt. 4 TD/1 INT. 1 FUM. 5.3% TD%, 1.3% INT%. 86.2 RAT
  
  Tannehill: 54/102, 52.9% comp, 615 yards, 205 yards/game, 6.03 yards/attempt. 1 TD/4 INT. 58.2 RAT
  
  Luck: 65/122, 53.3% comp, 846 yards, 282 yards/game, 6.93 yards/attempt. 5 TD/4 INT. 1 FUM. 82.0 RAT.
  
  Weeden (sigh): 65/115, 56.3% comp, 677 yards, 225.7 yards/game, 5.9 yards/attempt. 3 TD/6 INT. 1 FUM. 60.7 RAT.
  
  Griffin III(rd-best): 60/89, 67.4% comp, 747 yards, 249 yards/game, 8.39 yards/attempt. 4 TD/1 INT. 3 FUM. 103.5 RAT.
  
  Brady: 79/118, 66.9%, 887 yards, 295.7 yards/game, 7.5 yards/attempt. 4 TD, 1 INT. 97.0 RAT.
  
  Schaub: 63/96, 65.6% comp, 751 yards, 250.3 yards/game, 7.8 yards/attempt. 5 TD/1 INT. 102.4 RAT.
  
  We can start to give out some real grades in 14 more weeks, but so far it’s definitely clear that Robert Griffin III is the third or fifth best quarterback so far of the five starters who came out of April’s draft, especially after comparing the Fab 5’s stats to those of two successful franchise quarterbacks through the same 3 weeks.
  - actovegin1armstrong
    
    Thank you for the compilation Believe.
    I recognized the top 5 rookies, but it took me a while to remember those other two schmucks.
    
    Why did you add those chumps to the list?
    One is a third round pick who grew up in a teeming cesspool of fecal effluent.
    And the other guy was a 6th round pick.
    Who cares about a 6th round pick?
    You can not get a Francais Quarterback in the 6th round.
    - Believelander
      
      I have no doubt that RG3 is not going to finish the season with a 3-digit passer rating. I strongly doubt that he will crash. He may have some bad games by RG3 standards, but let’s just say I would be stunned if he had any bad games by Brandon Weeden/Ryan Tannehill standards.
      
      Anyway, we in Cleveland have seen short-lived winning streaks with undersized, quick rookie quarterbacks who complete 55% of their passes and rack up 150 yards passing per game. I’d like to see what Colt McWilson does once NFL teams adjust for him and see him progress rather than regress before I buy into him, but it would be exciting to see this guy really beat the odds.
Believelander

Did anyone see the end of Monday Night Football? Everyone wants to deflect it onto the referees but the overarching thing I’m seeing here is that the Packers’ defense screwed the pooch so bad my brain might explode. All their guy had to do was swat the ball out of bounds, game over, but he tries to CATCH it. Wow.
- BIKI024
  
  dude, that was the biggest joke ever, mainly because I thought I lost my wager on the Hawks only to be saved by the Footlocker sales reps. PHEW. the ref closest to the play calls it an INT and the other guy calls it a TD. the rules are clear, possession is determined by who maintains possession first, which was clearly the defender. Tate got his hands on the ball after the DB got possession, and it was just his hand, he never had possession of the ball. it’d be one thing if they both caught it at same time in the air and came down with it together, then it would go to the offense, but this clearly botched by the refs. for GB’s sake I hope their playoff hopes don’t come down to this 1 loss. but otherwise, i’m ear to ear about this miraculous victory!
  - Believelander
    
    I’m not overreacting to the refs’ call because I’d wager money the other NFL refs would have made the same blown call. Simple fact, the safety Jennings screwed up hard, and that’s why the Packers lost. But I’m glad to hear you won. Gotta get some ice for the sting of the Revis news. That’s some no good very bad stuff.
    - BIKI024
      
      yeah it seemed like he was on pace to having an up and down season healthwise anyhow, but it’s a shame for the guy who wanted to rework his deal, i hope he didn’t blow his big signing bonus from a couple years ago! gonna be a long road back, we’ll see if he has the fortitude to make it back to full strength. but otherwise the Jets still have one of the best defensive schemes in the NFL, we’ll see if the 49ers take advantage this Sunday.
      - Believelander
        
        As badly as I want the Jets to crushed under a nuclear submarine, I gotta feel bad for Revis. He’s a great player on an annoying vomitpile cesspool of a franchise trying to make it big. Dude balls out and plays the right way. Besides Tebow (who is an almost radioactively good person), there’s nobody on the Jets roster less deserving of this, and SO much deserving-ness amongst the rest. They’re like the Clippers, only with a nickname that illustrates what a disease they are. Sigh.
      - BIKI024
        
        “they’re like the Clippers”? how so? racist owner? NOPE. draft pick busts? not even close. bad coaching? nope, even Frownie has come around on Rex Ryan. who knows what the season has in store for the Jets, but their problems have more to do with Santonio Holmes than anything, becuase almost every other guy on the team also “balls out and plays the right way” sans the great santini
      - Believelander
        
        Whatever you say superfan. The Jets looked like a football team in week 1, but then they got pasted by a shaky Steelers team and squeaked out an overtime win against the Tannehill Express. Man, next thing you’re going to tell me they’re good enough to beat the Browns. ACCOMPLISHMENT!
        
        Rex Ryan may be a great defensive schemer, but he’s not a good head coach. It’s ironic that you refer to the Browns as the Clownies when the Jets are the biggest circus freak side show in professional sports. Maybe at some point they’ll be a respectable franchise but I doubt it.
        
        As for being like the Clippers, the Jets feature a decades-long cavalcade of incompetence, bad luck, and poor drafting since their ‘glory’ days when they won their one Super Bowl, you know, like a couple of years after the Browns won their last title. They’re a running joke, many of their own fans despise the organization as a collective slimeball of toxic sewage, and their home fans are considered to be the lowest common denominator in the NFL, if not all of American pro sports, possibly including NASCAR.
        
        As for draft busts, the memorable recent one of course is Vernon Gholston. Some people talk Chad Pennington but let’s be honest, that’s up in the bad luck category. The second round selections of Kellen Clemens, Justin Miller, and Mike Nugent (a kicker in the second round…I guess..ish?) were pretty sterling. Hey, maybe Mark Sanchez will be good one day, but let’s face it, he’s got a long way to go to prove he’s anything but a journeyman. (yes, yes, I know, two AFC Championship games in which they got mulched. Kid played well. Finish a season with over an 80 RAT, kthxbai).
        
        Generally, they’re the Jets. They’re a joke. The Browns are a tragedy, the Jets are a comedy. They’re the team who received Bill Belichick’s resignation on loose leaf paper 1 day into his tenure. Even when the Jets are doing really well, there’s always this understanding that they’re destined for…nothing. I’m trying not to giggle as I write this, because it makes me think of the Jets, which makes me laugh derisively.
        
        One day, you will see. One day.
      - BIKI024
        
        J-E-T-S!
      - NeedsFoodBadly
        
        You’re absolutely killing it today. Good work.
      - actovegin1armstrong
        
        Biki,
        I am with you on Santonio Holmes, he does not bring it on every play.
        However, even though I am sorry to butt heads with you on everything lately, the
        J-E-T-S are not going to be any fun without Revis Island.
        He is my favorite player in the entire league to watch play the game.
        He reminds me of Darrell Green.
    - bupalos
      
      Disagree vociferously. First, from the position he was in, trying to knock it down would have meant knocking it back towards the receiver or onto a growing pile of bodies. Knocking it out of bounds would have required a kind of backwards volleyball hit at it. Neither would have been safer or more of a guarantee than what he did. And what he did was catch the ball.
      
      Second, in a situation with veteran refs sure, it’s possible they see it the same way (I actually doubt it, but it’s possible) which is one guy further off thinks it’s a touch and the guy closer sees correctly that it’s an int. But I bet you anything they have the confidence to do the right thing with that, which is get together, decide who’s more certain, decide who had the better position, and then make the ruling. They would have taken their time in the first 10 seconds and conferred and gotten their best ruling on the field without visibly showing they disagreed. The way that played out, I have no doubt it was the refs inexperience at being on the spot in a spot-light pressure cooker that created that result.
      
      And beyond that, the owners are absolutely spitting on the fans, and I think every statement about how it could theoretically be just as bad even if they weren’t screwing every last nickel out of this cash cow with no regard for anything else is lame. These refs are changing the game. It’s not about the “big calls,” they are doing random shit and calling a different style the entire game. The judgement stuff like contact, PI, and holding is COMPLETELY different. It’s going to interfere with rookie development, and soon this entire season is simply going to be about how teams adjust to the refs and then adjust back if and when the regulars are allowed to come back.
Believelander

Pete, pretty sure the odds of 9-0 are 512-1. Don’t shortchange the man four points.
Believelander

HAHAHAHAHAHA some Holmgren shill (less intelligent) spiritual cousin of Biki wrote the Wikipedia article on Mike Holmgren, and nothing illustrates how smart people sound with their lips on Holmgren’s butt as this tasty biased excerpt from a tasty biased article:

“Holmgren fired Browns coach Eric Mangini after a disappointing 5-12 record. “

Keep hating, Mangini haters. You guys are pros.
http://profile.yahoo.com/BQTEGZW3BCTX4ZDEN4PVU4GBBM Ed

Reading the quotes from that KC game in the link provided is a stark reminder of the venom spewed toward Mangini by those turds. Disgraceful. But hey folks, no worries, Grossi said yesterday on the ‘Hooligans’ that a couple completed passes and it’s a different game.
Mike, Dover

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